Center Link/tie rods/idler arm--does brand matter?

[jocko124]

Gents,

I'm want to redo my front end suspension with SC&C's AFX package. I also want to replace my tie rods, center link, idler arm, pitman arm. I was thinking Moog parts, but I noticed Global West and Hotchkis sell "premium" steering components at a "premium" price. Can you really get a high tech center link/tie rod or is it just "premium" marketing? Seems like marketing to me, but I'm no suspension expert. Thoughts?

Thanks

[wmhjr]

Here's my experience..... I can't remember how the Olds components are. This is from a Pontiac perspective.

I went with the SC&C Stage 2+ setup, and at the same time ordered a Spohn front end setup including center link, tie rods, idler and tie rod adjusters. Got them in and everything seemed fine.

Until I tried to install.

Things just weren't going together the way I expected, and then I tried connecting to the Pitman arm. Whoops - completely different bore. Turns out that lots of folks think all the GM A-Body components are identical - but they aren't. I layed out the center link and measured end to end. No problem. But, the pin locations were different. Slightly. Just enough to matter.

I had two choices. Replace the Pitman arm with a Chevy arm and try and use this stuff, hoping that nothing else would be a fitment issue, but I was concerned that the different dimensions of the timing cover, oil pan shape, etc, would possibly create a problem with the center link. So, instead I returned those Spohn items and got Pontiac parts - but kept the heavy duty tie rod adjusters. BTW - both Marcus and Steve Spohn were perfectly helpful in working this out. No complaints here. Steve was a little slow to get back to me initially, but not terribly and he does have a business to run.

I didn't - and still don't - think that the center link and tie rods will make a real difference between brands in terms of performance, but possibly they will wear differently. Since this isn't a daily driver that didn't concern me.

Just my 2 cents.

[jocko124]

The tubular tie rod sleeves are the one thing I definitely like better.

[RatTouring]

Hey Lee - I just did my front end using the AFX spindles. I'm still using the factory steering arms, PS drag link, and moog tierods with billet tire rod sleeves \ adjusters -In my opinion, like WMHJR, spend your money where you need it if its a street car.

http://www.brokenboltgarage.net/reassembly.htm

Nick

[b-man]

Here's my experience..... I can't remember how the Olds components are. This is from a Pontiac perspective.

I went with the SC&C Stage 2+ setup, and at the same time ordered a Spohn front end setup including center link, tie rods, idler and tie rod adjusters. Got them in and everything seemed fine.

Until I tried to install.

Things just weren't going together the way I expected, and then I tried connecting to the Pitman arm. Whoops - completely different bore. Turns out that lots of folks think all the GM A-Body components are identical - but they aren't. I layed out the center link and measured end to end. No problem. But, the pin locations were different. Slightly. Just enough to matter.

I had two choices. Replace the Pitman arm with a Chevy arm and try and use this stuff, hoping that nothing else would be a fitment issue, but I was concerned that the different dimensions of the timing cover, oil pan shape, etc, would possibly create a problem with the center link. So, instead I returned those Spohn items and got Pontiac parts - but kept the heavy duty tie rod adjusters. BTW - both Marcus and Steve Spohn were perfectly helpful in working this out. No complaints here. Steve was a little slow to get back to me initially, but not terribly and he does have a business to run.

I didn't - and still don't - think that the center link and tie rods will make a real difference between brands in terms of performance, but possibly they will wear differently. Since this isn't a daily driver that didn't concern me.

Just my 2 cents.I'm having some issues with the centerlink on my '64 Tempest, your post here about the difference in the centerlinks has my attention.

The LS3 I'm installing along with the Autokraft pan hits the tie rod ends before it gets to full steering lock. Right now I only have about 2 turns of the steering wheel lock to lock when I should have about 2.5 turns (12.7:1 Lee box).

I was wondering if swapping to all Chevelle components (steering arm, pitman arm and centerlink) would buy me some added clearance between the pan and inner tie rod ends. I had asked this question in my Tempest build thread and the consensus seemed to be that the Chevelle parts were the same dimensionally as the Tempest parts, but your post here makes me suspect otherwise.

I have removed the zerk grease fittings already to keep them from puncturing the pan, I will replace them with some small plugs in between the need to grease them. At this point I'm considering dimpling the pan a little on each side to increase the travel of the centerlink.

Any insight or help will be greatly appreciated. :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/DSC02856-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/DSC02857-1.jpg

[wmhjr]

I was wondering if swapping to all Chevelle components (steering arm, pitman arm and centerlink) would buy me some added clearance between the pan and inner tie rod ends. I had asked this question in my Tempest build thread and the consensus seemed to be that the Chevelle parts were the same dimensionally as the Tempest parts, but your post here makes me suspect otherwise.


Any insight or help will be greatly appreciated. :)


I can absolutely confirm that dimensionally, the Tempest and Chevelle components are not the same. I don't know how changing them all over will affect your build, but the pins for tie rod attachment to the center link for example are in different locations. In order to change completely over, you'll have to replace everything. Tie rod ends, pitman arm, idler arm, center link. Like I said, however, I don't know if that would give you more, the same, or less clearance.

[b-man]

Thank you for your reply.

Perhaps I'll give Marcus at SC&C a call to see if he knows anything about the differences and if exchanging my Pontiac parts for Chevy parts might be helpful.

[wmhjr]

Thank you for your reply.

Perhaps I'll give Marcus at SC&C a call to see if he knows anything about the differences and if exchanging my Pontiac parts for Chevy parts might be helpful.

I hate to say this but I think this is one case where he won't be able to help. Marcus discovered this information immediately after I learned it. On my project.

[b-man]

Thanks again, maybe I'll just have to get my hands on some Chevelle parts and find out for myself.

[69496]

Thanks again, maybe I'll just have to get my hands on some Chevelle parts and find out for myself.


I see you are in SoCal. So am I and I have chevelle steering components off my car that you can test fit to make sure they work before you buy new.

[b-man]

I see you are in SoCal. So am I and I have chevelle steering components off my car that you can test fit to make sure they work before you buy new.From looking at the differences in year application on the Year One site I don't think your '69 Chevelle pieces would be compatible with my '64. I really do appreciate the offer though.

After further investigation it seems that in most instances they're selling the same parts for both the Chevelle and the GTO, with some goofy differences in the '65 -'67 year range. Of coure these are just aftermarket replacement offerings, but they can't be too far off from what these cars came with originally.

Chevelle center links and idler arms:
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?input=center+link&SM=1&SC=0

GTO (Tempest) center links and idler arms:
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?input=center+link&SM=1&SC=5

[Roadbuster]

I can absolutely confirm that dimensionally, the Tempest and Chevelle components are not the same. I don't know how changing them all over will affect your build, but the pins for tie rod attachment to the center link for example are in different locations. In order to change completely over, you'll have to replace everything. Tie rod ends, pitman arm, idler arm, center link. Like I said, however, I don't know if that would give you more, the same, or less clearance.

Very interesting find! I would of expected a different center link to clear the engine but to have different geometry is very interesting! A previous owner had replaced my cars linkage so when I rebuilt I used all new parts. The only minor thing I found was that the old (Pontiac?) inner tie rods have the zerk fitting on the end vs the replacement ones (Chevy?) have them on the side. I have to turn the wheels to grease them but no interference.
I still have the old parts and I remember measuring it all before I put it together and it was the same size. This is on a 68 GTO that was no where near stock when I got it.

Jon

[wmhjr]

Very interesting find! I would of expected a different center link to clear the engine but to have different geometry is very interesting! A previous owner had replaced my cars linkage so when I rebuilt I used all new parts. The only minor thing I found was that the old (Pontiac?) inner tie rods have the zerk fitting on the end vs the replacement ones (Chevy?) have them on the side. I have to turn the wheels to grease them but no interference.
I still have the old parts and I remember measuring it all before I put it together and it was the same size. This is on a 68 GTO that was no where near stock when I got it.

Jon

'68 is a completely different car. All I can tell you is that the chevy and pontiac 64-67 are absolutely different in geometry. Center link end pin to end pin is the same measurement. Everything between is different - including the bends. Here are some examples. What I've showns as "Spohn" means "Chevy". If you haven't noticed, I keep pretty good records from the project :)

Measuring the center link from the idler arm pin to the pitman arm pin (center to center):
Original: 23 1/16" Spohn: 23 1/4"

Measuring from the center of the idler arm pin to the center of the passenger tie rod end hole:
Original: 5 1/2" Spohn: 6"

Measuring from the center of the pitman arm pin to the center of the drivers tie rod end hole:
Original: 2 3/4" Spohn: 3 1/4"

Measuring from drivers tie rod end hole to passenger tie rod end hole - center to center:
Original: 15 3/8" Spohn: 14 1/4"

[Rod]

yes there is a difference in the parts between premium and cheap, I will tell you from a shop and installer perspective, all i can say is PLEASE don't cheap out on the suspension and brakes. the tubular sleeves are BIG recommendation, the old cold rolled steel sleeve with threads cut into was built back in the 60's for Bias ply tires, were slapping on 17" plus wheels 8" plus wide with sticker tires the 1960s product design just wont work, those shops selling those tried and trued kits are usually selling the over sized center link with the correct hardness and that also help stiffen up the suspension steering also, save money in another place on the car! less stereo, carbon one less part, spend 200 a rim instead of 500 a wheel, get a less expensive set of seats but don't cheap out on suspension

[MonzaRacer]

OK for the record as a frontend guy I have used a lot of parts BUT for the record IF I rebuild for performance I like using NAPA Chassis as they are all Dana PArts Craft, where as Moog is a name only company and buys from anyone.
Now I do and have used the Master Ride also as they are McQuay-Norris and generally I dont see any offshore parts. BUT the better parts are heavier.
The M-N parts used to be sold at Autozone but now they are branded Duralast so who knows.
I work at Pep Boys and we sell Prostop and I can tell you it is over seas parts BUT the quality is still very good as we dont seem to have any warranty issues, and I have been there over 1 1/2yrs and sold/installed countless parts.
I would als olook and see if AC Delco sells parts for most old GM cars some parts are made some not.

[Proforged]

There absolutely is a difference. Save yourself the labor of re-doing it and re-aligning it a year down the road, and do it properly the first time.

http://www.hotchkis.net/19661967_gm_abody_premium_steering_rebuild_kit.htm l

[jocko124]

I ended up going with Napa for my tie rods and idler arm. I had to get my pitmann arm and center link from Rare Parts Group. 2 things---don't ever ever ever order anything from Napaonline.com. It took me 2 months and a call from my credit card folks to get Napa to refund me for a $200 centerlink that they agreed they never had in stock and never sent to me!! On the flip side, I received the best customer service from the folks at Rare Parts Group that I have received from ANY vendor I have dealt with while rebuilding my car's suspension.

[wayward]

Did anyone ever decide which center link has the most clearance from the oil pan. I don't know who made my current center link as I bought it in '85... The car is a 67 pontiac A-body

I am putting in a LS and I'm using the cast Holley oil pan. When using the Doug Headers mounting plates in the rearward position I'm hitting the sides of the oil pan when I cut the wheels deep.

Thanks,
Eric