1972 LeMans Daily Driver budget project (redo) [Archive]

Brad1970

02-18-2010, 10:50 AM

Sorry for the redo, but wanted to get a fresh start on the thread...

Back story:
Here is the start of my project. 1972 Pontiac LeMans Luxury. 400ci, TH400 tranny. Not the original tranny & motor from what I've been told by the previous owner. Body is fairly good shape, not a lot of rust & runs great. I bought the car from a guy in Kentucky who bought the car from a guy in my home town here in Arkansas. He had moved to Kentucky from AR 4 yrs ago... small world.

Anyway drove the car 9 hrs back home & not a problem.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_driverside2-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=driverside2.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06428-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06428.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06429-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06429.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06430-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06430.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06431-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06431.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06432-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06432.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_DSC06435-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=DSC06435.jpg)

Brad1970

02-18-2010, 11:31 AM

Got the car in Nov. & started in the trunk with a wire wheel taking off the surface rust & a bit more. Discovered a hole in the wheel well/trunk line (common spot) & in the rear close to the spare tire tie down ( few smaller spots) where the trunk brace is.

Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I pulled most of the interior & my Father & I removed the rusted out passenger side floorboard & installed a patch. I've been wire wheel brushing the floorboards & what not, & using rust inhibitor paint over the cleaned areas, then using flat black on top of that.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1857-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1857.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1856-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1856.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1915-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1915.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1885-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1885.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1927-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1927.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_1949-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_1949.jpg)

Brad1970

02-18-2010, 12:07 PM

I ordered some of the suspension pieces I wanted & got in some of it today. For the front I went with Savitske's SC&C Stage 2 Plus, NASCAR style ball joint (screw in), lightweight arms, with SPC lowering springs 550lb front, 135lb rear & Poly-graphite bushings for front lower arms. In the rear I've ordered Spohn upper & lower adjustable arms with Del-Sphere joints & Vari shock single adj. I'll get those installed in the next week or so...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2024-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2024.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2029-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2029.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2030-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2030.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2031-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2031.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2045-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2045.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2046-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2046.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_IMG_2047-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=IMG_2047.jpg)

Motown 454

02-18-2010, 12:43 PM

Nice job on the patches it looks good.

CruizinKev

02-18-2010, 12:47 PM

good work so far :twothumbs

Brad1970

02-18-2010, 01:34 PM

My Spohn rear uppers & lowers came in last Friday & the last pair of Vari Shocks showed up last week... Hopefully we'll get all the suspension parts installed on the weekend of the 20th if the weather holds out... I also ordered some poly rear upper bushings I had forgotten to order with the rest of the stuff earlier this week. Should be in tomorrow.

I measured the SPC springs just for documenting sake just in case someone had questions about them in the future..

The Rear springs are double pig tailed (although I've been told they don't have to be) & are a variable rate (when I talked to Mark he told me the springs were linear, but maybe he was just talking about the fronts)...

Rear springs are about 13.75" uncompressed, 135lbs, variable (shown in the pics) I was told rear factory springs are 14"... SC&C says a 1" drop in the rear from factory stance. Front springs measure around 13" uncompressed, 550lbs, linear (shown in pics). Factory front springs I was told are 16". SC&C says 1.5" drop in the front from factory.

I was a little skeptical about the spring rates until I saw these 2 threads ... http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...lle+suspension

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=19847

Mark told me these were the spring rates to go with unless I was going to be doing road racing with the car only. Then I might need to consider going higher in spring rate. You want to get a spring rate on your car that doesn't over run your shocks abilities, otherwise it will ride horribly, not to mention handling.

I went with the Vari Shock single adj. as Bilstein HD's may have been too soft for my plans on how I would be driving the car from time to time.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_SPC2-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=SPC2.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/th_SPC1-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=SPC1.jpg)

Brad1970

03-01-2010, 11:03 AM

Well this weekend was nice & warm enough to get into the garage (thank goodness a buddy canceled my plans to help him move!) & start the upgrade to the rear of the car. This is my 1st time to do all this, so it took me a bit longer to do one side than the other, but isn't that the way it always is?

So I got the car up on jack stands & went to work. As I've read & been told, everything is really straight forward & easy to get to. Getting rusted bolts & nuts to loosen, not so easy. But a little (or a lot) of PB Blaster & WD40 , a section of my hollow jack handle & all those issues went away!!!

I was able to get the original springs, shocks, upper arms & lower arms off. I haven't installed the shocks just yet as I'm getting some longer bolts to accommodate the thicker shock mounts on the Vari Shocks. I also didn't change out the upper rear control arm bushings located on the rear end housing due to not have the tools to remove those (that will be a project for this weekend).

The interesting thing about the Vari Shock I was unaware of was SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED! After talkin to a friend & just some common sense kicking in, I think I've got it. Hopefully that's it for those.

Here are some interesting numbers for those who might have ever wondered (Close estimates):
Weights:
SPC Spring (1) 10lbs
Factory Spring (1) 6.5lbs
Lengths:
SPC Spring length 13.75"
Factory Spring length 13.5"

I've got some other weights for the arms old & new, the new shocks to the old shocks but don't have those with me, so I'll post'em later.

The old springs came right out with little or no assistance with the shocks off on both sides & the new springs of course go in without issue.

The drivers side uppers was a real pain due to a brake line being right in the way for a socket to fit, so it was slow going on the removal & re-install of the of the bolt. I'm sure an air ratchet would have made short work of it & save my shoulders a lot of aching! But after a few minutes, it was done...

At this time, it's just waiting for the shocks to be installed & wheels put back on, then the initial drive & then tightening up the rear uppers & lowers after it settles.

Enjoy the pics...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_start-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=start.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_oldspring-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=oldspring.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_oldspringremoval-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=oldspringremoval.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_springssidebyside-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=springssidebyside.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_stockmeasure-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=stockmeasure.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_SPCmeasure-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=SPCmeasure.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_oldshockmount2-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=oldshockmount2.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_oldshockmount-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=oldshockmount.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_oldshock-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=oldshock.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_lowerremoval-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=lowerremoval.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_lowercomingout-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=lowercomingout.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_lowerinstalled-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=lowerinstalled.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_upper1off1on-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=upper1off1on.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_newandoldupper-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=newandoldupper.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_badshotbothon-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=badshotbothon.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_springweight-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/LeMans%20Parts/?action=view&current=springweight.jpg)

4spdharry

03-01-2010, 11:06 AM

nice poncho

Brad1970

03-01-2010, 12:23 PM

Helpful videos...

Rear upper control arm bushing removal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPXf1OR9Lnk

Rear upper control arm bushing install:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPMd2x_DYxc

Front lower control arm bushing removal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ5FkOoT5QE

metal sleeve removal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG1hQlw6xMk

Brad1970

03-03-2010, 06:06 PM

more weight numbers:

Monroe Shock: 4.5lbs
Vari Shock: 4.0lbs

Factory Rear Lower Arm: 5.0lbs
Spohn Rear Lower Arm: 5.0lbs

I don't have the weight for the Factory upper arm yet, but the Spohn Upper Arm is:

3.5lbs

4spdharry

03-03-2010, 06:55 PM

VFN one piece fiberglass front end :)

gto406

03-04-2010, 12:40 PM

Looking good Brad, keep at it!

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO.

GM_muscle

03-04-2010, 01:59 PM

looks like a good car to start with good luck.

Roadbuster

03-04-2010, 11:03 PM

Great looking project!

I gotta start weighing my parts! :)

Brad1970

03-10-2010, 01:38 PM

So I got my shocks installed this weekend... didn't take long at all. Used new bolts & nuts... I didn't realize Lowe's carried #5 rated bolts & nuts, glad I looked.

As I said got'em installed, drove it around the block just to settle the suspension a little. Wheel gap is a little more than what I expected but it's MUCH improved over what it was. We'll see how it looks when I upgrade the wheels & tires someday soon hopefully. Speaking of, while removing my wheels I noticed that the lug nuts were all different sizes (outside) & I was having to use different ends of the wrench to get some of em off, so I went & bought all new lug nuts, I may have to replace some of the lugs as I think they were cross threaded... it's always an adventure!

This weekend is the front suspensions time... hope it all goes well. Gonna replace the bearings while I'm at it. Might as well...

Enjoy the pics...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_5-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_5.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_4-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_4.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_3-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_3.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_rightshock-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=rightshock.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_8-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_8.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_9-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_9.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_11-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_11.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_10-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_10.jpg)

4spdharry

03-10-2010, 02:07 PM

looks perfect

ponchopwr70

03-11-2010, 05:50 AM

Nice lemans! You def have all the right parts on there.

Brad1970

03-15-2010, 07:21 PM

Short worded update (pics will follow tomorrow)... Front suspension installed. We left the lower control arm bolts "loose", drove it & then tightened it up... End result is that the drivers side is about a 1/2 inch lower (measured from the bottom of the frame to the ground) than the passenger side... Any ideas why this is?

Over all the stance looks great! the front is LLLOOOWWW. The frame is about 6" (plus or minus) off the ground (right in front of the door). The rear stand about 2" taller than the front. It needs an alignment & I'm upgrading the front sway bar. Then I'll be able to return focus back to the interior....

Brad1970

03-16-2010, 01:08 PM

Alright folks, we start of with the process to the finish and some other stuff in between...

My thanks to my buddy/co-worker/Pro-Touring member JeffT for the use of his shop, lift, knowledge & assistance on this. It would have taken twice as long if not...

Here we see the front in all it's glory minus the rotor as we already had it off. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01539-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01539.jpg) Pic of the original spring & the SPC spring https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01545-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01545.jpg) SPC spring length bout 14" https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01551-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01551.jpg) Factory spring length 16.5" or about, https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01552-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01552.jpg) Factory lower arm down, spring removed, old shock busted, couldn't hold the arm & spring in place https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01546-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01546.jpg) all old parts out https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01554-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01554.jpg)

Brad1970

03-16-2010, 01:26 PM

Ok now here is some of the fun... So if you've taken a look at the You Tube videos on how to remove the rubber bushings out of the A arms, here is my contraption from pieces bought at Lowe's... the pipe itself is 2 1/2" in circumference & about 3 or 4" long. the rod is a threaded 3/8's diameter rod. Works better if you actually can find the heavy duty cast screw on top to drill the hole thru, which I didn't so I improvised & used some large washers as well as the sheet metal ends. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01557-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01557.jpg) The round bushings came out no issue, the enlongated (oval) bushings just got the center & sleeve pulled out, but it made it much easier to remove the exterior sleeve with a air chisel... https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01560-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01560.jpg) Also found some addtional weight savings... 30 some odd years of dirt & debris & rocks... https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01561-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01561.jpg) Hindsight I should have bought all new nuts & bolts & sanded and painted... but I didn't... so that'll be a project for the future. Arm installed https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01562-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01562.jpg) more to come....

gto406

03-17-2010, 03:49 AM

Lookin good Brad, let me know how those Varishocks work for you. I will be putting back either my stock Monroe Gas shocks or trying the Comp-Eng 'drag shocks' set on a neutral setting before I invest in any new shock absorbers.

BR/Brian
'72 GTO.

Brad1970

03-17-2010, 04:51 AM

Brian the shocks feel GREAT, but you have to understand I had some worn out Monroe shocks on there to begin with, BUT the adjust-ability is AWESOME! Depending on what your wanting to do with the car would/should be the determining factor in what type of shocks you want. My car (as I've said earlier in the thread) will be mostly spirited daily driving, MAAAYBE an autocross at some point or a road course (most likely just some spirited north western Arkansas hills driving). Hope that helps...

More pictures later today of the weekend project....

Brad1970

03-17-2010, 10:01 AM

So we media blasted the lower A arms & repainted https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01569-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01569.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01567-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01567.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01568-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01568.jpg) next we put in the PST polygraphite bushings https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01571-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01571.jpg) I went with these bushings as I wasn't quite ready to drop the money on the SPC lower arms just yet. The polygraphite will offer great deflection rates & will last a good long time. The next shot is of the arm attached with the Xtra Tall ball joint already pushed in. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_DSC01570-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=DSC01570.jpg) We also took the spindles off & apart cleaned'em up, media blasted'em & repainted'em. Also cleaned the shield & caliper brackets. Since we were taking all this apart we went ahead & put new front bearings in place as well (why not huh?). https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_2164-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_2164.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_2152-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_2152.jpg) Here is a shot of the mock up https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_2166-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_2166.jpg) https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_2170-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_2170.jpg) Now what we ran into with the front shocks is that the screw holes had to be slotted a bit for fitment in the spring seats. Once this was done they screwed right into the spring seats nice and flush. Also you the shocks have to be slipped into place from the top of the spring seats, the shocks won't fit thru the slots in the seats (duh!!). The old skinny Monroe shocks might have but not these beefy things! Here's a decent shot of the rear setup while its on the lift. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/th_IMG_2176-1.jpg (http://s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad217/Brad1970/?action=view&current=IMG_2176.jpg)

Brad1970

03-17-2010, 10:07 AM

Results.... Front... https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/IMG]

Brad1970

03-17-2010, 10:08 AM

rear ...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/IMG]

Brad1970

03-17-2010, 10:11 AM

full side view... and yeah it's got a 2" rake from front to rear... I'll have to adjust that with spring seat spacers...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/IMG]

CruizinKev

03-17-2010, 11:36 AM

oh nice stance! good work! :twothumbs

Brad1970

03-18-2010, 10:57 AM

Ordered my Hellwig 1 1/4" tubular front sway bar, spring seat spacers to bring up the front 1" & level it out & the Jounce progressive rate bump stops from SC&C... Mark had the best price on the sway bars... he's hard to beat on a lot of parts cost wise... JeffT also handed me the lastest DSI cataloge (Detroit Speed.com), lots of nice goodies in there... pricey but very cool stuff! Hopefully by the 1st weekend in April the sway will be in & I'll have pics to post...

Brad1970

03-18-2010, 12:59 PM

More weight #'s

SPC Front Spring (550lbs): 13.5lbs
Factory Front Spring: 12lbs

SPC Front Upper A arm(1): 6lbs
Factory Front Upper A arm(1): 10lbs

(the shock #'s are off someones, probably mine, are wrong. I say that cause I looked back at the 1st page & those shock weights are heavier than these & the Vari shocks are all the same size)

Vari Shock single adj: 1.5lbs
Monroe shock (front): 1.5lbs

Brad1970

03-31-2010, 09:20 PM

Ordered a bump steer kit from Spohn today... still waiting on the Hellwig front sway, jounces & spring seat spacers from SC&C (called Mark, he said Hellwig was behind & he was behind as well)... once all this stuff comes in & gets installed I can either get an alignment or wait, get my wheels and tires then the alignment... so I guess I should wait.....

Brad1970

04-07-2010, 08:06 AM

Received my front sway bar I ordered back on March 18th from SC&C who had it drop shipped from Hellwig who was slow or back ordered on my part. Turns out they shipped me a 2005 Mustang Front sway bar... So more delay it getting my suspension completed. Not to mention I'm still waiting on my spring seat spacers & Jounces from SC&C... sigh... hard to wait with such nice weather to work on stuff in, but what can you do?

JeffT

04-07-2010, 11:54 AM

Work on other parts of the car while you wait?!?!?!?

Suxs about receiving the wrong bar though.

Brad1970

04-07-2010, 06:54 PM

Got home today & my bump steer parts from Spohn were waiting on me. Will post pics later. Left voice mail this morning with SC&C about the wrong sway bar that was sent to me but, no return call, called SC&C again later (same day) left message with Keith or Kevin (forget his name) for Mark to holler back & didn't get a return call today...

Will post pics of the bump steer pieces tomorrow...

Brad1970

04-08-2010, 08:19 AM

Left a voice message again with SC&C this morning, Mark shot me an email with a guy's # to call over at Hellwig. Contacted Hellwig (David), emailed them pictures of the bar to make sure it actually was the wrong bar. They are going to take care of it.

Here are some shots of the Spohn Bump Steer pieces & a pic of the alleged wrong Hellwig sway....https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/IMG_2262-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/IMG_2265-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/IMG_2266-1.jpg

Bump Steer pieces which are the right ones...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/IMG_2270-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/IMG_2273-1.jpg

68firebird

04-08-2010, 10:37 AM

Lookin good bro!! I'm doing the suspension to mine now too, it is amazing the crap you find taking these old cars apart to put the new stuff on!! The front of that looks to be sitting really low like you said, is that how you want it?

Brad1970

04-08-2010, 11:44 AM

68- yeah it's setting an inch too low in the front for me... hopefully these spring seat spacers will correct that.

Update - David at Hellwig says he thinks it's the right bar but wrong connecting hardware sent... sending him measurements on the bar to be certain...

Brad1970

04-09-2010, 09:56 AM

Emailed David from Hellwig last nite & he emailed me EARLY this morning (He's in Cali early for him) & let me know I did get the right bar but the wrong hardware & they'd be sending the me correct stuff this ASAP.

Race Wilson

04-09-2010, 12:00 PM

Love the car. Glad to see someone working on old Pontiac iron. Where are you at in NWA? I'm just outside Fayetteville.

Brad1970

04-09-2010, 12:28 PM

Race - Central AR in the LR area....

Race Wilson

04-13-2010, 06:03 AM

We lived on the west side of LR for about 10 years and still have some good friend there. It's a great place, but I'll gladly take the cooler weather and lower humidity of NWA.

Brad1970

04-13-2010, 06:34 AM

Brad1970

04-13-2010, 07:37 AM

Called SC&C yesterday late morning. Left a detailed message with a girl who answered the phone asking Mark to call me back about some of the parts I ordered back on 3/18/2010 that I've still not received. I didn't get a return phone call yesterday & nothing so far this morning...

Anyone else have this issue with SC&C? I really like Mark & don't mind doing business with the guy, but as a paying customer I'd appreciate a little better customer service. I understand the guy is short handed, as I've mentioned earlier in the post when I spoke with Mark back on 4/1/2010. I just appreciate a return phone call or email to update me on stuff I've paid for almost 1 month ago. Just let me know that I've not been forgotten or I'm not being ignored. A lot of folks that I see or read about are not as patient or as understanding.

Main problem I see there is one guy trying to do it all or more that what he can do in a day. Which can cause missed revenue & effect customer service which in turn affects return business or even new business.

Don't get me wrong, at this point I still intend to do more business with SC&C (front lower arms, Lee Steering box, Rag joint, Hellwig rear sway) on items that aren't cheap. I am just hoping for a better experience in the future.

gto406

04-13-2010, 06:25 PM

Best of luck Brad, keep at it... I am sure Mark will get back to you, it is probably just a busy time of year (lots of folks trying to get their cars going for the season).

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO.

Race Wilson

04-15-2010, 08:24 AM

Yeah... NWA does get a nicer range of the seasons without the humidity (it's always hotter closer to hell!), but NWA just puts me closer to the Yankees of the North! HA!!! J/K to all you Union boys!!! HA!!

Yankees I can stand. I'm originally from the Kansas City, MO area. It's the hippies that you have to watch out for.:machine:

Brad1970

04-16-2010, 07:09 AM

Received the correct mounting components from Hellwig Wednesday nite! So maybe I can get my sway bar mounted this weekend.

I called SC&C yesterday, left a message with Keith about the parts, he said they'd look into it & holler back. I didn't hear back from them yesterday, so I called again this morning & got a hold of Mark. He & their shipping guy swore they remembered packing it all up & sending it, but couldn't find a UPS record of it, so they are reshipping today & sending tracking on it. So maybe I'll wait to do the sway bar after the other parts come in now that I think about it until next week.

mighty454

04-21-2010, 12:14 PM

Brad, You're work is looking great. I also have a 1972 LeMans I bought in January. I just bought my wheels and I'm going to start working on my suspension next. Here are some pics of my car. BTW, I'm also located in NWA in Bella Vista.

Brad1970

04-21-2010, 12:58 PM

Mighty - where did you get your wheels from, what size are they & what are the offset & backspacking sizes?

mighty454

04-21-2010, 01:31 PM

Mighty - where did you get your wheels from, what size are they & what are the offset & backspacking sizes?

Wheels-
I got them from http://www.customperformanceproducts.com/. He hooked me up with a great deal. They are BOSS 338. 20x10 6" BS. Rear, 20x8 4.5" BS Front. He included chrome valve stems, and chrome lug nuts with shipping for $700 bucks. He included backspacers for the rear but I didn't need them as it's close but not enough to rub. Plus when I add the rear disc brakes I've read it kicks it out about 1/4". Most Chevelle guyz i've heard end up using the spacers in the rear.

Tires-
I ordered my tires from tirerack. They are Sumitomo Front - 245/40/18 Rear - 265/35/20, 480 bucks total with shipping. Most guys are running the 275/35or40/20 but I'm going to do a 3" drop in the rear and wanted to make sure there was room.

I hope this helps Brad? Just send me a PM if you need anymore info. I may be hitting you up when I start my suspension work. I may do a posi carrier also when I start to tear into it. I want to midigate down time as Spring is in full effect.

Brad1970

04-23-2010, 10:21 AM

Received my progressive jounce stops & spring seat spacers yesterday from SC&C... Now trying to decide when to install as well as fighting the urge to buy wheels & tires, & the Lee Steering box, rag joint.

Here are the pics
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/Jounce-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/SpacerJounce-1.jpg

Brad1970

05-27-2010, 05:11 PM

All right... for those of you interested... I've read up a bit on using BMW wheels instead of good ol' GM wheels. They are cheaper in some cases & in a lot of cases they have a ton of different styles available. Now you are limited in the width, but in my case I can't run a hugely wide tire with out a few more mods to my setup & again my budget is smaller.

Now I've got a BMW 5 series (E39) with 17 x 8 wheels on it. I just so happen to have a full size matching spare so I used it to check fitment & what not. The wheel does fit on no issue, but a hubcentric ring will be needed to keep the wheel centered & from shearing off studs or breaking them rather.

Check out the pics

On the rear
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2352-1.jpg

Close up of the wheel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2358-1.jpg

On the front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2372-1.jpg

Close up on the front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2365-1.jpg

Brad1970

05-27-2010, 05:18 PM

oh also I've sold my original wheels & front seats, so I'll be replacing both soon with updates/upgrades!

Here is a shot with the E39 wheel on the front & an E32 wheel on the back... Just wanted to see fitment... also I have some E46 (3 series) steel wheels on hand & put one of those on as well (not pictured) it fit with no issue BUT... there was no tire on it, so I'm not sure how well it would fit in a real world setting. 5, 6, & 7 series wheels are known to fit without issue as long as the offset & backspacing is good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2373-1.jpg

Here is the "donor" car...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMG_2353-1.jpg

Brad1970

05-27-2010, 05:20 PM

I'll be measuring offsets & backspacing as well as hub size as to get the right size ring for the wheels I purchase at some point. Let me know if you have questions

sr73bu

05-27-2010, 05:37 PM

Great build.. love these cars.. if you don't mind me asking, what brand front swaybar is that?... if they told you its a Helwig and you payed more than $155 for it i'd question the company you ordered it from... the only reason i'm saying this is I just bought a Summit front swaybar (1 5/16) for $155 with the EXACT packaging, green lube, boxes, bushings and "hammered finish".. just looking out for you.. i'm sure many of these companies have the same "manufactuer"... that re-box the product.. believe me i know, i'm a package designer... anyway, good luck with the build! looks great!

Go Yanks!

Mingus

05-27-2010, 06:11 PM

Looking great. Don't see too many '71-'72 LeMans'. Seems like there are a lot more GTO's around.

Brad1970

05-27-2010, 06:37 PM

Idesigner

05-28-2010, 11:08 AM

Brad, Great project. it looks like you are spreading you wings and being very detail oriented!

I am thinking about going with the same springs shocks and front control arms from Mark at SC and C and i am worried about what my ride height will be. how tall is your front tire and rear tire in the pics you show with the car on the ground. Do you think it would be best to get the front spring spacers right away because i will need to use them?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Tom

Brad1970

05-29-2010, 06:51 PM

Tom... the wheels I had on the car were 14 x 6... the tires were 75's front and rear.

When I was asking Mark about the height he said that it was gonna be different all cars. Some may settle out evenly some may be like mine, settle a little off. So you've really no choice but to just do the setup & see how it turns out. Either way I do think that the front will be pretty low. Seems like some of the other guys that have gotten theses springs have had about the same really low ride height.

Hope this helps. Holler at me if you have any questions. Hope I'll be able to help you out.

Brad1970

05-29-2010, 06:57 PM

I bought some leather Hyundai Tiburon front seats from the local Pick & Pull for $30.00 They are in surprising decent shape although they do need to be recovered. Was gonna pull some seats from an 88' Supra, but it had electric seats and I couldn't get the drivers power seat forward to get it loose... oh well... I'll post pics of the seats later....

LeighP

05-31-2010, 03:17 AM

Nice project...always been a fan of late 60's /early 70's Pontiac A bodies.

Brad1970

06-08-2010, 11:52 AM

Here are a few shots of the seats as promised...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats2-1.jpg

Drivers seat bottom... split in the seam
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats3-1.jpg

up close
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats4-1.jpg

passenger side
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tibseats6-1.jpg

James21

06-08-2010, 12:55 PM

Looking good. Its funny i have some 04 Hyundai Tiburon seats as well. I still need to have some brackets welded in. They are very supportive though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/novaseats-1.jpg

Brad1970

06-09-2010, 06:50 AM

yours looks to be in better condition for sure!!!

68firebird

06-09-2010, 08:35 AM

Looks great, I like seeing other budget builds on here. I'm going through wheel and tire fitment "issues" now using 92 camaro rims on my bird. I guess its all a part of customization, haha. I have to get some seats like that, the stock seats are horrible.

mighty454

06-09-2010, 06:23 PM

Brad, It's a good thing to see you are making progress...Last time we spoke I was going to start my suspension and I ended up doing a refresh on my motor. I'm currently waiting for a ton of parts to get here in the mail for my top end so I can get her running again.

Keep up the good work! Maybe once I get here running again I'll drive up your way to check your suspension out in person??

Brad1970

06-10-2010, 06:37 AM

barno68

06-11-2010, 06:17 AM

Back in my Pontiac crazed youth I had three of these, '68, '70 and '72. My favorite was a high school graduation present to myself that I bought for $200. It was a rusted out '72 LeMans Sport convertible from Connecticut which finally died around 200k miles. What a fun car. Good Luck on the build.

Brad1970

07-08-2010, 09:30 AM

Posted this over in the wheels & tires forum... maybe someone can help me out here... https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70248

titan460

07-08-2010, 07:01 PM

Man this takes me back to my high school days. My first car was a 71 LeMans.

Brad1970

07-13-2010, 01:06 PM

Ok... figured out for ease & cost... gonna go down the torque thrust route....

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-142-8961GM12/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-142-8861GM6/

the front is 18 x 8.5 with 5.5 backspace

Tire will be a 245 or 255 x 35 (if possible)

I don't see & haven't found any issues with this... My question is for the rear:

Rear 18 x 9.5 with 5.75 backspace

Tire will be a 295 x 35

Will the backspacing be ok?

Will this clear ok? Or should I look at using a 275 on the rear

FoxGranadaChuck

07-14-2010, 07:40 AM

My brother once has a '72 LeMans 2-door for a few months back when I was in high school. I wished that I had been able to keep it!!

Brad1970

07-16-2010, 12:24 PM

Ordered wheels today from Summit

went with

18 x 8.5 w/ 5.5" backspacing, 20 mm offset for the front

18 x 9.5 w/ 5.75" backspacing, 12 mm offset for the rear

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/SUM1428912GM38-1.jpg

Cheapest Torque style I've seen around with the cheapest shipping ($12.95 for all 4 wheels).

Next week I'm hoping to order my Lee steering box & tires... The front wheels are on back order at the moment. Trying to get it all ordered and in close to the same time that way I can get the car rolling & on the road again.

Brad1970

07-21-2010, 07:51 AM

got bored the other night & decided I'd remove the trim off the car around the top, which turned into pulling the vinyl top off the car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2550-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2553-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2560-1.jpg

Yesterday my rear wheels came in... The fronts are still on back order...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2581-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2582-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2584-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2585-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2590-1.jpg

JeffT

07-21-2010, 12:30 PM

Nice shot of your tape measure, Brad! Glad to see you FINALLY ordered some wheels.

Mingus

07-21-2010, 05:04 PM

Getting nicer all the time. Looking forward to seeing it on the road.

Brad1970

07-23-2010, 12:41 PM

CHANGE OF PLAN.... went with front is 18 x 8.5 with 4.5 backspace as I've seen LOTS of A body's with this on the front for clearance of the front sways.... Thanks to all the folks I've bugged about this & questioned to death...

Brad1970

07-29-2010, 11:03 AM

Alright... after much research & debate & decision, the wheels & tires are in, mounted & balanced & new wheel studs are going on...

The Wheels are Summit Racing Legend 5 Gun metal.

Front 18 x 8.5 with 4.5" backspace, -6mm offset

Rear 18 x 9.5 with 5.75" backspace, +12mm offset

Tires or Tyres (depending or your side of the pond) are:

Sumitomo HTR Z II:

Front: 245/40/18 (25lbs) 25.8" overall height

Rear: 285/35/18 (27lbs) 25.9" overall height

I went with this wheel & tire combo as it fit my budget for now... I wanted 295/35/18 in the rear & 255/40/18 in the front, but again, this is what made the budget. Cheap tires, but they'll do as it's not a daily driver (now) at this point anyway.

The 4.5 offset was chosen because anything deeper apparent will bump into the sway bar, didn't wanna risk this so I went with that... The front lip is smaller than the rear so the front doesn't look deeper than the rear, nor does it measure that way as shown in the photos.

Most of the "A body" research I did I found almost all of them had 4.5" offset in the front. And most rear setups would work without issue running a 6" backspace, but I did the 5.75" just in case...

Anyway here are some pics with commentary:

The set
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2607-1.jpg

Comparing rear & front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2608-1.jpg

Comparing wheels rear & front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2609-1.jpg

Front lip width
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2611-1.jpg

Rear lip width
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2614-1.jpg

Replacing rear wheel studs...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2615-1.jpg

Replacing front wheel studs...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2617-1.jpg

Here are some shots of the drivers side done, the passenger side is still up on jacks so the wheel gap your seeing isn't correct. I'll post more pics when it's on all four tires....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2621-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2620-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/IMG_2619-1.jpg

That's it for now, will be finishing up the passenger side tonight (maybe)...

hechtrod

07-29-2010, 11:10 AM

Good lookin' combo man! Nice project too!

JeffT

07-29-2010, 11:28 AM

Good job Brad!!!! Now get the other side done so we can see it at ride height already.

bonecrrusher

07-29-2010, 03:05 PM

I am liking those rims! A friend of mine has them for his second gen camaro!

gto406

07-29-2010, 06:41 PM

:drool:

:twothumbs

Brian
'72 GTO

CruizinKev

07-30-2010, 04:59 AM

looking good! :twothumbs

Brad1970

08-02-2010, 10:26 AM

Wheels on & on the street... Thanks to JeffT for helping me out once again with an issue.

Issue I am referring to was the car wouldn't start... same issue I ran into when I replaced the starter. Come to find out one of the previous owners had rigged a "theft deterrent device" under the dash. Which consisted of an unplugged wire (female side) from the steering column, & a piece of bare metal wire completing the circuit, which hung down under the dash. Apparently the bare wire would either not make good contact or some sort of corrosion had formed on the wire, which would cause it not to start. Anyway, he plugged it back in & it's all good. Simple enough but complex for a "genius" like myself not to figure out.

Anyway here are some shots of the car down on all four as well as some wheel well shots of clearance up front & in the rear... Car will definitely need to be raised in the front as the front tires are rubbing when I turn or hit a bump to fast.

Side shot.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2632-1.jpg

front drivers side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2637-1.jpg

Front tire clearance
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2625-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2629-1.jpg

Rear Clearance
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2626-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2627-1.jpg

CruizinKev

08-02-2010, 03:17 PM

for the looks the front is just perfect! :twothumbs the rear needs to be lowered! maybe just roll the front fenders for more clearance?

Brad1970

08-02-2010, 05:17 PM

Actually I'm gonna raise the front a wee bit, I've actually dragged on asphalt dips on a street. The rear does need to come down a bit (inch or 2, but from what Mark @ SC&C has said, I don't wanna lower it to much past a certain angle or point as it makes the rear more app to do... something... it's been awhile since I've talked to him about it.... something about keeping something higher in the rear & drive line and.... something....

Brad1970

08-16-2010, 12:42 PM

This weekend was productive. JeffT & I installed the Spring spacers on the front as well as the jounces, the Helwig front tubular sway & finally the rear upper poly bushings.

The spring spacers have helped out a lot! I don't drag tires on the wheel wells. The stance is better, but the rear is still about an inch too high. That'll be addressed later though.

Here are some pics of it all (excuse the low quality, my iPhone camera was all I had, bone head that I am forgot the better camera) ...

The front (pre settled in):

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/frontstance1-1.jpg

Here are a couple of shots of the jounces, JeffT had to "modify" them a bit on a grinder. They fit no issue, but we were afraid they were gonna bind on the coil spring, so a grinder put all that to rest. Also had to cut one of the outter tie rod end bolts down as it was gonna hit the jounce as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/jounce1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/jounce2-1.jpg

Front Helwig Tubular sway:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/sway1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/sway3-1.jpg

Rear poly bushing in place

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/rearupperbushn-1.jpg

srh3trinity

08-16-2010, 05:00 PM

Can you get us a shot of the rear wheels from behind? I am curious to see what the Sumitomo's look like in a 285.

Brad1970

08-17-2010, 11:03 AM

Here you go... shot of the rear...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2638-1.jpg

Brad1970

08-23-2010, 02:19 PM

bonecrrusher

08-23-2010, 06:10 PM

front drivers side...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_2637-1.jpg

Love this shot!!!

67goatman455

08-23-2010, 06:54 PM

I am jealous! i used to drive my dads 72 Lemans in high school (4 years ago) I wish i could still drive somethin this cool as a daily now! I love this project!

Brad1970

08-24-2010, 05:11 AM

Thanks guys. It's getting better by the month. Things may slow down a bit as I've got a baby boy on the way, but I'm determined that will only make me focus on the smaller things, like removing trim, body repair, sanding, priming stuff like that...

mighty454

09-02-2010, 11:06 AM

Been driving the car around the neighborhood a bit (seats aren't bolted in yet... next project on the list) Car rides GREAT. We've bumped the shocks up to 12 in the front & 6 in the rear. Still rides great. I still have a little slack in the steering, but that'll go away with the Lee Steering box I'll eventually purchase. But it's 90x better ride & drive than it was on the stock suspension. When the steering box goes on we'll replace the inner tie rods, idler arm & center link as well as adding the bump steer outers, just to make sure it's all fresh under there.

I did find an oil pan on Ebay (factory), so we'll be swapping that out soon as I Jedi Mindtrick JeffT into helping me out. From the questions I've asked on the motor forums & JeffT's thoughts on it, the guys have said to pull the motor up to do it. They say it's much easier. So we'll see how that goes. Either way, it sounds like a task. Pan will be in on Wednesday of this week so we'll see.

Brad everything is looking great! Your wheels turned out great! I saw your remark about the oil pan. I was refreshing my top end this summer and was going to replace the leaky oil pan gasket I had also.

I read in my service manual that you could remove the oil pan without removing the motor, but I followed the instructions to the letter and was not able to get it out.

It says unbolt your motor mounts and raise it from dampner. You'll have to remove your fan shroud also. You'll also have to turn your crank to TDC 6 to move the crank lobe out of the way.

I was 1/4" shy of getting it out and still was not able to slide the pan out. My trans was hitting up on the tunnel so I couldn't raise it anymore. I'm thinking if it would of been maybe a Grand Prix or something bigger maybe I would of pulled it off.

Some guys will drop the pan enough to get the old gasket out and slide in the new but that's a pain in a**.

I ended up pulling my motor to touch it up and guess what??? I have the block sitting at Ora's Engines in West Siloam Springs, OK getting the block prepped for some forged pistons and rebuild.

I have to stop taking things apart as I'm to anal and end up re-doing things everytime!

Let me know if you're able to get the pan out. I may of missed something...

Brad1970

09-03-2010, 11:28 AM

small stuff... finally removed all the trim from the body...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/IMG]

Next will be the Luxury badges...

Small & quick update...

woody80z28

09-07-2010, 01:03 PM

I am liking those rims! A friend of mine has them for his second gen camaro!
And they look a lot better with tires!

erikgto

09-19-2010, 11:29 AM

Brad,

I love your build man!!

Read about it on the PY forum, but now I´ve found this forum and your posts here are much, much more detailed.
Very inspirational!!!
I´ve already contacted Mark to see what´s best for my upcoming ´71 LeMans Judge clone suspension build.

Keep us posted.
BTW any last pics with you cars current stance?
I the last pic the rear seems lower to me.....

Regards,
Erik

Brad1970

09-20-2010, 08:06 AM

Yeah the PYfourm didn't get as much info as those guys (I get the impression) don't really care that much about cars leaning more towards the Pro-Touring style...

The rear is just slightly lower than it was or at least it looks to be when we dropped the front, we changed out the rear upper bushing to some polys that I had bought a while back, we loosened everything up pretty much during the install & snugged it down, drove it & then tightened it down more after that. So it may have settled in better.

I do have a pic somewhere, so I'll try and post a "side by side" comparison if I can find it...

Mark will help you out for sure.... he's got great prices & great info... Hopefully he's gotten some more help over there or his business has slowed just a little so he can handle all the biz he does... He's really great over all, you'll enjoy doin biz with him!

Good luck on your build! Your car looks great... post up here & keep us up to date. We LOVE pics of just about anything new going on!

critter

11-05-2010, 10:12 AM

So when are you going to bring this thing out so the APA can see it? We're not snobs about PT, heck we even like them. :)

Brad1970

11-05-2010, 10:26 AM

I was out at Cruizin the Rock at the 1st couple of them anyway, but since the seats have been out of it & I've been slow to get that piece of it done (blame it on a newborn of 6 weeks now). Once I can get those in & some slack in the baby duty time, hopefully I can get around to a meeting at some point.

critter

11-05-2010, 10:37 AM

LOL. Yep, babies get in the way of things. I highly recommend grandfather status like I have. Play with them until they poop and hand them back to their parents. :)

singer69

11-05-2010, 11:00 AM

Great job. From one Lemans owner to another building on a low budget it looks great! Keep up the great work. I like the wheels and I'm still looking for the right ones myself as I have looked into BMW wheels too. Thanks for sharing. Hows the ride? I did disc brakes all around (low budget) and will do some suspension when I can afford it. -Andy

Roadbuster

11-08-2010, 10:54 PM

Looking Good Brad! I understand with the little ones, btw Congratulations!

Brad1970

11-09-2010, 07:02 AM

Andy... the ride is awesome. It feels great... like a new car... With the Adj. shocks I can dial in how soft or firm I want it. Highly recommend them! The car feels stable and little to no squeaks. I haven't had the seats in to be able to push the car more to really get a feel for the suspension, but I'm sure it's gonna be fine. Let me know if you have any questions, hopefully I can help you out.

singer69

11-11-2010, 10:36 AM

Thanks so much Brad. I hope to be able to do some suspension work in the springtime and I'll definatley be reaching out to you. Keep up the great work!
-Andy

Mbwicz

11-25-2010, 08:50 AM

Did your front suspension level out? I read early in the thread that one side was 1/2" lower than the other. I have a 72 Lemans, and years ago I cut the factory coils to drop the front (yeah, I know...). It turns out that Pontiac had two different spring rates on cars with factory A/C, and by cutting the coils the car ended up uneven by about 1/2". On a pontiac, the compressor is on the passenger side just like the evaporator, and that was enough for the factory engineers to stiffen the passenger spring.
I really like how your project has gone, good luck with the baby. My 'baby' is now 8 and I am getting ready to get into my car. I will use a lot of the same things that you have on your ride. Did you notice significant bump steer with the car, and did it go away with the Spohn kit?
Nice project.

Brad1970

11-29-2010, 07:33 AM

MB.... I haven't measured the front lately to see if it's dropped any. I'm planning on moving the battery at some point, that should help a little. It's really not that big a difference honestly... You can tell if you're looking for it, but overall it's not horrible. Bump steer pieces haven't been installed yet, as I'm waiting to buy a Lee steering box for it & maybe redoing the front end stuff (idler arm, inner tie rods, centerlink) so I'm not sure if it's gonna make a huge difference or not. Car rides great though I can't stress that enough & even with the original steering box, the wheels & tires have made a nice difference. I'm a little distracted now with my new addition to the family so it's a slow go at the moment. Just here & there work... Post up I'd like to see your "baby".

Mbwicz

12-07-2010, 05:00 PM

42823

This is a picture of the car circa 1996. It is a base lemans (different side trim than your Luxury). Shortly after this I put the car in a ditch avoiding a deer. It has sat in a garage since then. All I did was cut the front coils and swap around different sway bars. I really like how painting the chrome front valance changed the car, I never liked the extra chrome in front of the front fenders. Just waiting to sell a finished project so that I can get into this one. I have a set of Hotchkis UCA's along with B-body spindles and disc brakes. I have a 12 bolt posi for the rear, and a 400 to stroke and finish. Lotsa plans when the money comes in. I like a bunch of things that you did. Enjoy your newly expanded family, that is what is really important. The car will wait until you are ready.

Mike

Brad1970

12-08-2010, 08:38 AM

Great lookin car Mike... Good luck with your project & thanks!

Here is the start of me playing around with the seats & doin some on the fly fabbing of the brackets... Working on stuff during the kids nap time is tough & vacation days at work go by FAST! I've got a couple O' weeks off at Xmas so hopefully I can finish the seats, that way I can start putting down the Dynamat (or 2nd skin) & get the interior back in the car at some point. Maybe I can be driving it by spring not to far of a long shot on that.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/seattack-1.jpg

online170

12-09-2010, 04:54 PM

Brad1970

12-09-2010, 07:49 PM

And you base this belief on...?

NASH JUDGE

12-09-2010, 08:25 PM

I give that sway bar 2 months of driving before it pulls the bolts out.

Use a stud with nuts and washers on both ends, or weld a plate to the outside of the frame so you have more threads for the bolts to hang onto.
can you provide pics of the bar on your car or how to get the bolts in ?
I too pulled the bolts one time, removed the bar for drag racing but have reinstalled it with metric bolts. I'm sure i'll pull the bolts again. I heard you can put "nut serts" in the frame.

Brad1970

12-10-2010, 07:28 AM

can you provide pics of the bar on your car or how to get the bolts in ?
I too pulled the bolts one time, removed the bar for drag racing but have reinstalled it with metric bolts. I'm sure i'll pull the bolts again. I heard you can put "nut serts" in the frame.

Could you take it offline or to a PM so as to not hi jack my thread please (sorry Nash, not trying to be an @$$)

critter

12-10-2010, 07:41 AM

I haven't visited your built thread in quite some time. Wow! Lots of progress. I like where it's going. Get that puppy built and come cruising with us next year dude!

online170

12-10-2010, 04:51 PM

And you base this belief on...?

Exhibit A;
This is a 1969 A-body with 17" BMW wheels, and super soft Falken wide tires. Notice the 1.5ft of space between the sway bar and the frame? That shouldnt be there. Also notice the inherent body roll because of this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Exhibit B:
A little clearer picture, with a strange shiny peice of metal dangling from the Passenger Front side of the frame.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Exhibit C:
The Sway bar on my car the day after i installed it. The next day i went to the drag strip, and on the way i went over a slightly washboarded gravel road. When i pulled into the pits (before any racing) i had the exact same thing. A pulled bolt.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

What do all thos pictures have in common? A big sway bar that says REUSE factory bolts in the instructions. It never works. Didnt work for the hotchkis TVS system on the first car, didnt work for Summit's sway bar, and its not gonna work on yours.

I could post a solution, but i dont wanna "hi-jack" the thread any further with completely irrelevant information...

Brad1970

12-12-2010, 12:26 PM

Online... Thanks for your explanation, fortunately after 4 months on my car, I've not had any issues...

I'm sure folks who are having sway bar problems will be more than happy to read about how to fix sway bar issues on your own build thread or sway bar fix thread.

PM sent.

Brad1970

12-25-2010, 10:30 PM

Wife bought me a used T56 6 speed for Xmas (thanks for the assist JeffT)... & now the parts list just went up a few more notches!

Brad1970

01-04-2011, 09:03 PM

I've been doing some research on the auto to manual conversion. The Parts Place sells a manual conversion kit:
43418

(KIT INCLUDES: BRAKE AND CLUTCH PEDALS, Z-BAR, CLUTCH PEDAL PUSHROD, PEDAL PUSHROD BOOT & RETAINER, CLUTCH FORK BOOT, CLUTCH FORK, ADJUSTABLE CLUTCH FORK PUSHROD, CLUTCH FORK BALL, CLUTCH RETURN SPRINGS, Z-BAR FRAME BRACKET, FRAME SIDE BALL STUD, 1 SPRING CLIP, 1 FELT WASHER, 2 NYLON BUSHINGS, SWIVEL ASSEMBLY, SWIVEL BOLT & SWIVEL SLEEVE)

they also sell the aluminum bell housing 43417

So I'll be getting an adapter plate & some other pieces to make it all work. This seems to be the best budget conversion route to take. If I decide to swap to an LSx engine in the future I've not sunk a ton O' money into the bell housing, plus I won't be stuck trying to find a buyer for a used LS1 T56 > BOP bell housing (Thanks JeffT for bringing that to my attention).

I've got a couple O' more things I wanna check out before I drop the hammer on anything. I'll keep you posted

Brad1970

04-06-2011, 08:26 AM

Been a while, but it's not a dead thread... I've been side tracked by some weather, laziness & a new daily driver

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/CTS_V-1.jpg

It's a 2005 Cadillac CTS-V, LS6 w/ Tremec 6-speed manual. 400hp, 395tq rated at the fly wheel. It's a beast of a family car...

I have put a little time in on Heavy Metal... I finally came up with something for a seat bracket. (Pictures to follow).

I went to Lowes & bought some 4' metal L shaped metal (I'll get the specs of it later with the pics) & some 5/8" 16 1" #5 rated bolts & nuts & cut it all down, bolted some to the factory floor mounts, the to the factory Hyundai seat brackets & bob's your uncle, I was done. seems to be really sturdy, height-wise I'm at what the factory seat heights were, I was hoping to be lower, but oh well, I don't plan on these seats being in there forever, just gives me solid seating for my "neighborhood tours" to keep the battery charged & to keep flat spots off the tires.

As far as the transmission stuff goes, I'm going to have the T 56 gone over to make sure it's in good working order, then go ahead with ordering transmission bell housing & clutch parts. That's where it's at for now... I'll post pics later of the seat stuff.

deejai35

04-06-2011, 06:18 PM

Nice daily driver. As a 72 BOP owner I am interested in your progress. Keep up the good work!

SgtPoncho

06-02-2011, 08:00 AM

Sweet cars dude. Any update on the Lemans? I've got a '71 that I'm slowly making progress on.

John Wright

06-02-2011, 09:48 AM

I'm diggin the new Daily Driver.

Brad1970

06-02-2011, 11:19 AM

Sorry for the late responses guys. The LeMans is patiently waiting for me to install the box of DynaMat that is sitting in the passenger seat of it. Thought I would have gotten to it by now, but life keeps changing that idea for me. Hopefully this weekend will allow for the DynaMat & some pics of the temp seat brackets... (we'll see... no promises though). Thanks for the comments on the Daily Driver... it's a blast to drive & sure surprises a lot of newer Camaro drivers as well as a few BMW drivers who aren't quite familiar with the Caddy brand & get pulled on rather quickly (haven't run into an 2011 SS just yet, figure I'll have some trouble at that point HA!)

Brad1970

06-23-2011, 05:22 PM

Ok so after a loooonnngggg time of not doing much on the car here is just what little I've done... I pulled the rear shelf cover off & surprisingly it's in great shape.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2898-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2901-1.jpg

Here are some really bad shots of the temp seat rails I came up with:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2903-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2904-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2906-1.jpg

Oh and I put an L.E.D. bulb in the dome light

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2905-1.jpg

Annnddd I also started putting DynaMat down

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2907-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2908-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2909-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2910-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/IMG_2911-1.jpg

thats it for now.... I knew kids kept folks busy, just never knew it was this true!!!

Speeddmon

07-01-2011, 07:13 PM

love your car you havea nice build goin, can't wait to see more. I am building a 70 sport.

Oldmeatman

08-16-2011, 05:13 PM

Hello-- I'm interested in the body trim parts that you have removed from your Lemans--- I have a 72 Pontiac Luxury Lemans that i'm looking for trim parts. Plus any of the LL name plates that you have, I would also be interested in purchasing those pieces.

My car is also the same Orange body color with a white top and white interior. Plus I'm also interested in the fender skirts.

Thanks for your time and will check back to see how you are processing on your car.

Brad1970

08-17-2011, 08:14 AM

PM sent

irregal83

08-17-2011, 10:35 AM

hey nice build, ill be lookin for updates

Brad1970

08-21-2011, 06:41 PM

slow progress.... a little more Dynamat applied...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/IMG_2987-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/IMG_2986-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/IMG_2985-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/IMG_2984-1.jpg

Anyone have a grant they don't need? Just lying around.... maybe not being used?

irregal83

08-22-2011, 11:02 AM

im looking for one too.. tons of ideas and motivation just not much cash pushin the project

Brad1970

03-30-2012, 01:07 PM

Project is still alive... just moving REEEEAAALLLYYYY slow (raising kids takes up the time) I'll see if I can't post something soon

csouth

04-04-2012, 06:51 PM

Nice project, glad its still alive. Life seems to slow all these projects down at some point. Slow and steady wins the race...

Brad1970

10-31-2012, 11:17 AM

Yep still alive... More dynamat down (passenger side door done). WIll post more pics one day. Looking at carpet and a Lee steering box (among other things), driving it once a week to work these days & the slack in the steering really keeps your attention to the road.

Brad1970

08-08-2013, 12:28 PM

mighty454

09-18-2013, 01:12 PM

Once again, the project is alive and well, still slow moving. I just added more dynamat down to the passenger side and will do drivers side door and floor hopefully this weekend. I'll post pics of my extremely slow progress for proof!! My wife had bought me a few goodies for Xmas that are still in the backseat area, so hopefully I"ll get around to those as well. I drive it every so often as I can so at least it's not just sitting.

Brad I'm excited to see you post some progress. I've been keeping an eye on your thread as I spoke to you some time back on my Lemans. I'm just now making it around to do suspension this winter and will be using some of your ideas you have posted from your suspension. I'm still undecided if I'm going to do coilovers or flip for an air suspension. Good to see the thread is alive again.

Brad1970

09-24-2013, 11:31 AM

Ok guys I'm FINALLY going to post some progress pics.

I FINALLY made time (during kids nap times) to get out in the heat and put down the dynamat. I didn't completely cover the front and transmission tunnel to do the future install of the manual 6 speed. I also need to dynamat the drivers side door, the passenger side is done.

82722

82723

Also unfurled the carpet I got for Xmas 2012
82724

and started playing with it a bit to see how it would fit and start to look in the car
82725

82726

I set the seats in just to get a better visual
82728

Now I wanted to try my hand at a very light interior update/fix. The rear parcel shelf was this faded, cut up, old piece of cardboard that was in DIRE need of replacement or repair.

82729

So I went to my local Pep Boys and found some cheap speaker cabinet carpet and grabbed my trusty spray can of 3M General Trim Adhesive spray. laid it out & trimmed it.

82730

Shot of it up close in the car

82731

Cleaned the back window for this one

82732

I started to mock up the rear interior to try and fit the rear carpet piece. First a good cleaning was needed

82733

82734

Next just sitting the pieces in place after getting it wiped down

82735

82736

82737

After getting the carpet in place, I trimmed some of the edges and then broke out the soldering iron and burned my holes for the bolts for the seats, shifter, seat belt anchors, etc...

82738

82739

And that's all for now. I'll be ordering more parts in the near future as I try to finish out the interior, but I won't bore you with the "Wish list", I'll just show it when it gets done.

gto406

09-25-2013, 06:40 AM

Looking good Brad, keep at it!

Brad1970

07-11-2014, 07:26 AM

Just a quick update... this project is still alive and creeping... no real headway, just a couple of small tweaks here and there. Still running great. Will try and update with some pics soon.

Motown 454

07-11-2014, 11:07 AM

Looking good!

Brad1970

10-10-2014, 07:11 AM

small/short update... Found Xylol to remove the old top adhesive. Works like a charm. Pour on scrape off. Primer done for now. Also am trying some Flexidip for kicks as paint till I am done with body and paint (which will be a while). I wanted the car to be more in the one tone/hue color range.

Xylol (found at Ace Hardware Store)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140721_120736-1.jpg

Before the Xylol
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140727_130125-1.jpg

After Xylol
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140914_123742-1.jpg

Different Angle

Before
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140727_142427-1.jpg

After
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140914_123817-1.jpg

And now for Flexdip (Rustolem's version of Plastidip)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20140928_161148-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/20141007_105611-1.jpg

I'll be painting more, that was just two rattle cans worth in those shots.

Other than that, the car is running great, slow and steady wins the race (supposedly)