will an alignment fix my dead steering

[69camarokid]

i have a 69 camaro with power steering, 3 turn lock to lock. recently the steering has began to produce a dead spot of about 2 inches. the car also leans a little left. if i take it in to get aligned, i have a free lifetime alignment at firestone, will that take care of my dead steering as well?

[2ndgenhunter]

If its free lifetime alignment. It can't hurt.

[LateNight72]

Worn steering components are likely (90%+ chance) the reason for your dead spot. An alignment might help a little, but it's doubtful.

[cheapthrillz]

Worn steering components are likely (90%+ chance) the reason for your dead spot. An alignment might help a little, but it's doubtful.

yep... sounds like it's in your steering linkage somewhere or possibly the steering box itself.

[Jim Nilsen]

One thing is certain, when they go to align it they will find the bad component more than likely. Second you will have to have them be willing to give you a better more aggresive alignment to make it better than stock.

1 degree negative camber ,1 degree positive caster and 1/16 th toe in will get you a very good starting point for great handling. The one thing about that alignment is you will need to keep your hands on the wheel more on bad roads and the alignment shop will argue with you about doing it.

Goodluck and I hope you don't have to rebuild the whole front linkage to get it all nice and tight.

You need parts !!!!

[NOGO]

The first thing you need to do is inspect all the steering system components and put a wrench on all your bolts to ensure nothing is loose. Your alignment can give you a slight dead spot steering feel- usually toe out (depending on the ackerman). The other aspects of your alignment (camber, caster) will affect the way the car goes down the road, but if they are in the ball park they will not cause a steering dead spot on center.

The leaning issue sounds like something different- what suspension setup do you have? What changed to create the leaning?

Jim Nilsen- I am not familiar with Camaro alignment specs in particular, but it seems that 1 degree negative camber is ok for the road race or auto-x track, but not ideal for street cruising (and tire wear). I would also venture to say camber should be a bit higher, atleast 2 degrees. I run almost 6 degrees in my Nova, and would think the Camaro would benefit with additional caster especially since 69Camarokid runs power steering.

[David Pozzi]

Set as much positive caster as you can, usually this is around 3 deg positive with stock A arms. If you can get 5 deg positive caster, that's great but you won't be able to achieve that. Run around .25 to .5 deg neg camber for street use. If you drive twisty roads a lot you can run .5 to 1 deg neg but if you drive straight roads a lot, go with .25.

Adjust the freeplay in your steering box. With wheels pointing straight ahead, box centered in travel, loosen the jamb nut in the aluminum top cover, turn the allen screw down gently until you feel some definite resistance, tighten the jamb nut. If you go too tight, the steering will get sticky and not follow the steering inputs smoothly.

[NOGO]

Adjust the freeplay in your steering box. With wheels pointing straight ahead, box centered in travel, loosen the jamb nut in the aluminum top cover, turn the allen screw down gently until you feel some definite resistance, tighten the jamb nut. If you go too tight, the steering will get sticky and not follow the steering inputs smoothly.

I recommend adjusting the steering box at full lock right or left because the gears tend to wear at center. If you adjust at center it can cause binding during turns that results in additional wear.

[Jim Nilsen]

The first thing you need to do is inspect all the steering system components and put a wrench on all your bolts to ensure nothing is loose. Your alignment can give you a slight dead spot steering feel- usually toe out (depending on the ackerman). The other aspects of your alignment (camber, caster) will affect the way the car goes down the road, but if they are in the ball park they will not cause a steering dead spot on center.

The leaning issue sounds like something different- what suspension setup do you have? What changed to create the leaning?

Jim Nilsen- I am not familiar with Camaro alignment specs in particular, but it seems that 1 degree negative camber is ok for the road race or auto-x track, but not ideal for street cruising (and tire wear). I would also venture to say camber should be a bit higher, atleast 2 degrees. I run almost 6 degrees in my Nova, and would think the Camaro would benefit with additional caster especially since 69Camarokid runs power steering.

I have ran those specs on the street and I have to say I drove very aggesively. I got those specs form Herb Adams book I had years ago. I like them but they did make the car need both hands on the wheel when on bad roads. The tire wear was very good and flat. I tried more caster but it did wear the tires more. I do have to say again that I drove very aggresive.

Daves specs will do him more ease of driving and better tire wear and I also had a 67 and not a 69 which has a bit different parts.

He should go with Daves specs first and if he wants more he can go there.

The main thing is that he has to get the Firestone guys to do it and that will probably mean talking to the manager. He should probably take a copy of this thread with him to show that others have a clue. It took me some talking to get the shop who put my comp T/A's on that I knew what I wanted and it was right for me. The tires went 25k and wore flat.

I do know that way back then people couldn't keep up in Corvettes and Porsches in the corners and it really pissed them off to be beat by a $3,000 old car with primer on it.:rotfl:


The main thing is that he can have a lot of fun and do well and not spend a ton of money on parts. He will have more fun showing up at the events with that money and learn what it takes to use those parts when he gets them.

:cheers:

[JRouche]

Set as much positive camber as you can, usually this is around 3 deg positive with stock A arms. If you can get 5 deg positive, that's great but you won't be able to achieve that. Run around .25 to .5 deg neg camber for street use. If you drive twisty roads a lot you can run .5 to 1 deg neg but if you drive straight roads a lot, go with .25.

Umm? I just want to clarify the camber? You said 3* to 5* of camber? You meant caster right. Just want to make sure the OP gets the correct numbers. If indeed you meant 3-5* of positive camber Ill have an issue with that. JR

[monteboy84]

I tried more caster but it did wear the tires more.

For my own curiosity, where was the tire wear? Inside edge?

[NOGO]

Umm? I just want to clarify the camber? You said 3* to 5* of camber? You meant caster right. Just want to make sure the OP gets the correct numbers. If indeed you meant 3-5* of positive camber Ill have an issue with that. JR

Im 100% sure he meant caster...:)


For my own curiosity, where was the tire wear? Inside edge?

Tire wear is typically not attributed to an increase in caster. I think he meant camber...???

[monteboy84]

Tire wear is typically not attributed to an increase in caster. I think he meant camber...???

That's what I'm wondering, because if all else remains unchaged, caster should not affect tire wear. If anything, I would think increased caster would equate to better wear, since the wheels would tend to be more stable in terms of not wandering and fighting one another.

[Jim Nilsen]

For my own curiosity, where was the tire wear? Inside edge?

It was on the outside, I was able to go back to 1 degree caster and still got the life out of the tires. I did change it back after only 500 miles or so. The cost of comp T/A's back then was $880 for the set of 4 which was unheard of for street tires at the time. they also came shaved at 11/32.

Just for your curiosity, I had the first set of them up front with the specs I first posted and the tires wore so fast on the outside I was really upset about it. I had run 2 sets of Radial t/a's whith vurtually flat wear across on each set. I was always very happy with the specs. When I went back to the tire dealer after only 1,500 miles and they were almost gone on the ouside I was confronted with the specs I use as the reason. I explained to them that I had never had the problem with the specs on my radial T/A's and he confirmed that.
After a bit of checking to make sure the alignment hadn't gone bad with all of the damn pot holes in town that year he called BF Goodrich and explained it to them. the deal was to put 2 new ones on and send the worn ones to them for testing. It took about a week before they called and said that the tire compound as it progressed to the outside of the tire was bad from them and they replaced them for free. The next set went well over 25,000 miles until winter hit again. They wer some of the best tires I have ever had for traction and wear compared to what everyone else was running. They were the closest thing to all out race tires for the street.
The other cool thing is that when we got them they came wrapped in a tape that had Comp T/A on it and I could use it as a windshield visor logo just by peeling off the backer. I should find the pics because it was so cool.

[Jim Nilsen]

Im 100% sure he meant caster...:)



Tire wear is typically not attributed to an increase in caster. I think he meant camber...???

I know he meant caster !!! And he was also really thinking that the guy really didn't sound like he wanted to go that aggresive of an alignment.

The alignment specs I use are what Herb Adams proved to be good for ultimate handing with a stock setup. Guldstrand would always go with more caster in his set ups but he always expected everyone to do the his modification to the upper control arms too.

[Jim Nilsen]

That's what I'm wondering, because if all else remains unchaged, caster should not affect tire wear. If anything, I would think increased caster would equate to better wear, since the wheels would tend to be more stable in terms of not wandering and fighting one another.

In aggresive driving more caster will add more wear on the outside of the tire with most sla suspensions like the Camaro. It is inherent to wanting to come back to center easier and stay there.

[monteboy84]

In aggresive driving more caster will add more wear on the outside of the tire with most sla suspensions like the Camaro. It is inherent to wanting to come back to center easier and stay there.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks Jim.

[John Wright]

I know he meant caster !!!
Yup...he meant Caster. Gives more straight line stability and helps steering return to center.


I bet the steering box is worn out in the OP's car.

[NOGO]

In aggresive driving more caster will add more wear on the outside of the tire with most sla suspensions like the Camaro. It is inherent to wanting to come back to center easier and stay there.

I believe the increase in static caster will increase the negative camber gain depending on your turning angle and move the wear toward the inside of the tire. This of course is affected by ride height, roll center, alignment, yadayadayada...

Not a Camaro expert...:hmm:

[JRouche]

I believe the increase in static caster will increase the negative camber gain depending on your turning angle and move the wear toward the inside of the tire. This of course is affected by ride height, roll center, alignment, yadayadayada...

Not a Camaro expert...:hmm:

YUP!! Thats why alot of caster is a plus+plus. You get some increased neg camber gain during turn in. It helps some cars that have a poor camber gain geometry that cant be fixed without some major work. Its kinda like a freebee gain.

I say kinda cause there are still some issues with extreme caster that some folks dont want. Tire wear? Im not sure. I havent been able to examine the tire wear yet.

And like anything else, too much of a good thing is just too much. I have seen cars with so much caster that the camber gain is too much. It can pull the tire in too far with a suspension that already has a decent amount of camber gain. Where the tire was riding on the inside edge and out of contact with the road surface. Too much candy can make you sick :) JR

[69camarokid]

finally went in today to get my alignment done.
i had settled on 3 degrees of positive caster and .25 degrees of negative camber. does that sound good?

unfortunately after about 10 minutes they called me in and showed me that on my passenger side my upper control arm was missing its bolt and polyuerathane bushing on one side!!!! it had evidentaly goten loose and fallen out at some point. so im now on the hunt for a single replacemant polyuerathane bushing because i just dont have the mon ey for a whole set replacement. im calling santa ana speed, the speed shop near my house tomorrow and hopefully they will have one and we can try this again!

[David Pozzi]

Umm? I just want to clarify the camber? You said 3* to 5* of camber? You meant caster right. Just want to make sure the OP gets the correct numbers. If indeed you meant 3-5* of positive camber Ill have an issue with that. JR

Thanks for catching my mistake!
Yes 5 deg pos caster or whatver you can get.

.25 neg camber or add more if you drive mountain roads or corner hard. We run -1 deg to -1.5 deg but we autocross a lot.

[MonzaRacer]

UHMMM, Caster is a not tire wearing factor, NOW if you add positive caster and your tires wear you might have a weak tie rod,center link,ball joint allowing the wheels to pigeon tow out under hard driving.
I ran on my 70 and 71 Monte Carlo 3 degrees positive caster left 3.5 deg on right, stock toe and I believe I stuck with 1/2 the preferred camber (as in closer to the lower or minimum spec. I ran 15x7 Ralleys and Hoosier Radials tires for many many miles and no issues.
I can tell you I have yet to see a car with high caster ever cause excessive wear if the linkage is tight and of a good quality (ie no Chinese cheapo parts).
Guess I need to startt digging out my old spec books,,,,wonder where they are stored,,,,,,.

[David Pozzi]

If your upper shafts have bolts, they will tend to back out. There are replacements that have a nut which is much safer.

[406 Q-ship]

If your upper shafts have bolts, they will tend to back out. There are replacements that have a nut which is much safer.

Really, I have never seen the nut style from the replacements always the bolted.

Caster should be as much as the front end will take and it will not cause any tire wear issues. Camber is just like David said depends on how aggressive you get with the car. At Guldstrands I would "read" the tires to see what the customer did to them and then adjust my camber accordingly. For a regular driver that didn't get pushed or if tire wear was an issue then 0° to -1/8° on the standard alignment for playing -1/4° then moving up for hard drivers all the way to -1 1/2° for the cometition autocrossers. If you granny drive -1/4° will cause accelerated tire wear.

BTW no body asked if your car has manual or power steering, if you put alot of positive caster on a manual steering car it will be impossible to turn the car at low speeds, for my manual steering GS350 Buick I had +1.0°, it was a bear to parallel park and cracked my girlfriends wrist when she put her hand through the 3 spoke steering wheel in a parking lot (I told her to no put anything in the steering wheel that she was not willing to have removed or broken). I once got the end of my thumb in the grove of one of the spokes and it damn near ripped my thumb off when returning to center.