Chevelle EFI install...

[Yelcamino]

Hey guys, I'm finally getting around to installing EFI on my Chevelle and thought you might like to follow along and see how things go. After a lot of bouncing around online checking out the various systems available, I decided to give Mass Flo a try.

Overall everything looks to be of decent quality; the throttle body is billet (very nice piece), the harness looks nicely done, and all the little parts seem to be good quality.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


So far, the only concern I have is the air meter; it looks pretty small compared to the four holes on the throttle body...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

On the fuel supply side I went with Aeromotive...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

At the moment I'm disassembling the Chevelle and trial fitting things. Because the throttle body looks to be about half the height of the carb, a potential pita will be getting the air cleaner at the right height so it still seals against the bottom of the hood.
I guess I'll cross one bridge at a time. :idea:

[tintman]

I may be stating the obvious, but it looks to be the same set up as a mass air flow fox mustang efi on a custom intake. Just curious if that is the case. A9l is also the fox ecu part #. I would be curious how easy it would be to build this set up from take off parts.

[Motown 454]

It will be nice to watch as you get it running.

[Yelcamino]

I may be stating the obvious, but it looks to be the same set up as a mass air flow fox mustang efi on a custom intake. Just curious if that is the case. A9l is also the fox ecu part #. I would be curious how easy it would be to build this set up from take off parts.

It could be, I'm not sure.

The web page says: "This mass air flow meter is designed to work with the Mass-Flo EFI custom 1000 CFM throttle body."

So who knows?

[Yelcamino]

It will be nice to watch as you get it running.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I just hope it doesn't take forever for me to round up all the little bits and pieces that aren't included in the system.

[BonzoHansen]

I may be stating the obvious, but it looks to be the same set up as a mass air flow fox mustang efi on a custom intake. Just curious if that is the case. A9l is also the fox ecu part #. I would be curious how easy it would be to build this set up from take off parts.

that would be great to know if the part fails, easier to get a replacement

[Yelcamino]

that would be great to know if the part fails, easier to get a replacement

That's supposed to be one of the positive aspects of this system - a lot of the components have factory part numbers.

[93Polo]

I assume this is going on your 468" motor with the Schubeck lifters. I am really intersted to see how this turns out.

If you are concerned about the Mass Air Sensor some of later GM LSx MAFs are ~100mm.

Also, plenty of guys on ls1tech have converted to 4 barrel style intakes with a 4 barrell style throttle body like you have. They run an air hat that many of the carbed centrifugal blower guys run. Then fab up a pipe that mounts the mass air sensor in the center with the air cleaner near a cold air source. I think they were getting a hat made by procharger.

[Yelcamino]

I assume this is going on your 468" motor with the Schubeck lifters. I am really intersted to see how this turns out.

If you are concerned about the Mass Air Sensor some of later GM LSx MAFs are ~100mm.

Also, plenty of guys on ls1tech have converted to 4 barrel style intakes with a 4 barrell style throttle body like you have. They run an air hat that many of the carbed centrifugal blower guys run. Then fab up a pipe that mounts the mass air sensor in the center with the air cleaner near a cold air source. I think they were getting a hat made by procharger.

Yes, you're correct, this is going on the Schubeck equipped engine.

Thanks for the tip on the LSx MAF idea; I'll keep that in my pocket in case I need it!

[wiedemab]

It has been awhile since I look at the Mass-Flo stuff so it may have changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My research led me to believe that they were using an A9L Ford EECIV as the engine controller. I'm not positive on the MAF, but I think it may be a GM type MAF that they have some sort of a converter to communicate to the A9L. The Mustang MAF for the A9L outputs a 0-5V signal to the ECU. I think the GM MAF's output a variable frequency signal, but not sure.

Here are couple of links that I found with a Google Search.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tpi/389873-massfloefi-com.html

Post #6
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/633141-massflo-efi-install-complete-road-photos-dailup-warning.html

I also think they are converting the distributors to use the Ford ignition module.

My experience with the Fox Mustangs is the A9L is a pretty good ECU and easily tuned. It will learn over time within a range - basically it has to be pretty close to start (narrow band O2 at least on the factory setup) with and it uses correction factors to skew the table values.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Keep us updated on how the install etc. goes.

Later - Brandon

[LSXfan]

it is a GM MAF, truck or 02+ LS6 style and it is a freq output system

[Yelcamino]

I got a couple of hard lines done yesterday, one front and one rear...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I ordered a couple of 90* ORB-AN fittings from XRP today for the other two lines. It turns out I won't be able to make the bends as tight as I originally pictured. Fortunately the XRP fittings will solve my problem.

In case you're wondering, the hard line is 1/2" stainless and it takes a professional bender (not me, the tool) to make clean bends...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Top one is for 1/2" and the bottom one is for 5/8".

[Denvervet]

Keep us posted. Looks like a good setup. I am about to do similar plumbing for my setup and anxious to see how yours comes out.

[dino]

Hello All,
I have the Mass Flo Efi setup on my 69' chevelle the car has a Shafiroff 598 crate motor in it which made 797 hp with the Holley 950 on the engine dyno. I first set the car up with the carb thinking the driveability would not be to bad,and it was not that bad as long as you did not mind driving a car that felt like a drag car on the street loading up at lights etc.The car ran awesome,but i got tired of 3-4 miles per gallon and smelling like gas after a cruise. We just took our maiden cruise the other night with the mass flo system and let me tell you it runs like a different car. Incredible throttle response,and it was great with the carb but it is unbelievable now. At part throttle cruising the engine seams much smoother.
I should be done with all the little stuff left to do, and will take a long cruise when its complete and post the results, but as of now all I can say is it is AWESOME.
Tony

[Yelcamino]

Hello All,
I have the Mass Flo Efi setup on my 69' chevelle the car has a Shafiroff 598 crate motor in it which made 797 hp with the Holley 950 on the engine dyno. I first set the car up with the carb thinking the driveability would not be to bad,and it was not that bad as long as you did not mind driving a car that felt like a drag car on the street loading up at lights etc.The car ran awesome,but i got tired of 3-4 miles per gallon and smelling like gas after a cruise. We just took our maiden cruise the other night with the mass flo system and let me tell you it runs like a different car. Incredible throttle response,and it was great with the carb but it is unbelievable now. At part throttle cruising the engine seams much smoother.
I should be done with all the little stuff left to do, and will take a long cruise when its complete and post the results, but as of now all I can say is it is AWESOME.
Tony

Cool! That's very encouraging! Thanks for posting and I look forward to hearing how it turns out when you're done!

[My427stang]

Hello All,
I have the Mass Flo Efi setup on my 69' chevelle the car has a Shafiroff 598 crate motor in it which made 797 hp with the Holley 950 on the engine dyno. I first set the car up with the carb thinking the driveability would not be to bad,and it was not that bad as long as you did not mind driving a car that felt like a drag car on the street loading up at lights etc.The car ran awesome,but i got tired of 3-4 miles per gallon and smelling like gas after a cruise. We just took our maiden cruise the other night with the mass flo system and let me tell you it runs like a different car. Incredible throttle response,and it was great with the carb but it is unbelievable now. At part throttle cruising the engine seams much smoother.
I should be done with all the little stuff left to do, and will take a long cruise when its complete and post the results, but as of now all I can say is it is AWESOME.
Tony

Yes very good to hear, although work has got in the way lately, I am doing one for my 489 FE too.

I wont hijack, but here are a couple pictures to keep the three of us mutually motivated LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/RailsandTB-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/DSC000112-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/Winterwonderland-1.jpg

Good luck to both of you, I can't wait to hear more and hopefully they all run as well as Dinos seems to!

[Yelcamino]

Yes very good to hear, although work has got in the way lately, I am doing one for my 489 FE too.

I wont hijack, but here are a couple pictures to keep the three of us mutually motivated LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/RailsandTB-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/DSC000112-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/Winterwonderland-1.jpg

Good luck to both of you, I can't wait to hear more and hopefully they all run as well as Dinos seems to!

It's great to see that I'm not the only one on this forum giving something different a try. Send updates as you progress, I'd like to see how yours turns out as well!

[Yelcamino]

Update: I finished the hard lines on the manifold and made a throttle/return spring bracket.

Here's the bracket...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here are the two front lines...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And here are the two rear lines...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Motown 454]

Very interesting guys keep us in the loop.

[My427stang]

Looking good Coastie!

AF has me all over the place and deploying soon, but I hope to have mine running before mid April.

Ran hard line to/from the tank yesterday, looking pretty good, after that, under hood plumbing and wiring and it should run!

Keep up the good work

[Yelcamino]

Since it's been a while, I thought it was time to post an update...

So far I have the intake installed, the harness, gas tank, fuel pump, and fuel pump speed controller installed. I'm actually making progress!

Because the EFI computer is freakin' big, the only choice I had was to give up my glove box and make a new home for the computer. It's a pretty good fit, keeps it out of harms way, and I have relatively easy access to it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here's the engine with the intake on. In this picture I haven't finished routing the harness but it looks better now. So far I think my only complaint about the Mass Flo system is the harness is pretty bulky. It's simple, but there's a lot of it. I guess because it's "universal" it has to have a lot of extra length to accomodate all possibilities. I ended up cutting about 4 feet off the wires for the coil! Where did Mass Flo think I was going to put the coil, in the trunk?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I mounted the fuel pump speed controller in the trunk. It turned out to be a pretty good place for the wiring.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And the fuel pump and pre/post filters are mounted on the Rick's tank. I added the 3/4 x 3/4 square tubes for the filter brackets.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I still have a list of things to do, like finish the underdash wiring, run the fuel pump "on" wire back the speed controller, and finish hard lines from the tank to the engine.

[Motown 454]

It looks great nice work. Thats a nice thing about the stainless tank you can weld the brackets on and not worry about recoating the inside to prevent rust.

[My427stang]

Awesome, mine is all together too, just need to modify the harness a bit and mount the ECM.

Unfortunately, looks like I didnt get it done in time, the AF wants me to go on the road for a bit.

We'll get it though, just a bit later than you. Very nice work

[Yelcamino]

It looks great nice work. Thats a nice thing about the stainless tank you can weld the brackets on and not worry about recoating the inside to prevent rust.

Thanks! Stainless is nice to work with. However, I don't think I like how low the new tank hangs below the bumper. I think the only solution will be to paint it black to tone it down some.

[Yelcamino]

Awesome, mine is all together too, just need to modify the harness a bit and mount the ECM.

Unfortunately, looks like I didnt get it done in time, the AF wants me to go on the road for a bit.

We'll get it though, just a bit later than you. Very nice work

Thanks! You'll be back before you know it and then you'll be able to finish it up.

[Yelcamino]

Ok, it's done. The EFI is installed and it's running. I haven't had a chance to drive it much but it seems to run pretty good. I still have some small adjustments to make but I'm pretty happy with it so far.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Try to ignore the big orange line on the left. That's the only heat shielding I could find locally and I needed something to protect the fuel supply line.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here's the Rick's tank. You can see how low it hangs...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

In addition to the EFI, I also swapped the Sparco's for a pair of Kirky road race seats.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Of course, a full report isn't complete without a little video clip! :headbang:

-zhBEiuzw5w

[camcojb]

looks and sounds great Herb. DEI has the same covering in black.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/dei010472_w-1.jpg

Jody

[TT302Z28]

This is very cool. I have been working with Mark Romans to create a crank trigger and a bracket using some MSD and LS parts for 1st gen BBC. This will allow for the use of the LS computers and a 24 tooth reluctor wheel.

Want to move to EFI on my 496. I believe there is a lot more power once timing and fuel are optimized.

Great thread, you remotivated me to get this done.

[Motown 454]

Congratulation's Herb it looks and sounds great!

[Jims78elky]

Way to go Herb! Sounds nice and ready to go..are you going to do a in car test/run anytime soon? Would love to see how the system works full gas pedal boogie!

:)


-Jim

[Yelcamino]

looks and sounds great Herb. DEI has the same covering in black.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/dei010472_w-1.jpg

Jody

Thanks Jody. I'll check this stuff out, maybe I'll have a reason to break down the fuel system and I can replace my orange line.

[Yelcamino]

This is very cool. I have been working with Mark Romans to create a crank trigger and a bracket using some MSD and LS parts for 1st gen BBC. This will allow for the use of the LS computers and a 24 tooth reluctor wheel.

Want to move to EFI on my 496. I believe there is a lot more power once timing and fuel are optimized.

Great thread, you remotivated me to get this done.

Thanks! Good luck on your project; I'm glad to finally be on the driving stage of mine!

[Yelcamino]

Way to go Herb! Sounds nice and ready to go..are you going to do a in car test/run anytime soon? Would love to see how the system works full gas pedal boogie!

:)

-Jim

Thanks Jim! Next weekend I'll be at the Maxton Mile shooting for 175 mph. I'll have a few full throttle runs to post when I get back!

[Mike Holleman]

Thanks Jim! Next weekend I'll be at the Maxton Mile shooting for 175 mph. I'll have a few full throttle runs to post when I get back!

I hope you get the 175 cause then I'll have something to drive to bump my comp. license to a B. God knows it will never happen in the Elky.LOL

[Yelcamino]

I hope you get the 175 cause then I'll have something to drive to bump my comp. license to a B. God knows it will never happen in the Elky.LOL

Sounds like a plan to me. Then when you finish the Firebird, we can both shoot for 200+! :6gears:

[Yelcamino]

Update time for the Mass Flo EFI system I installed on the 454 in my Chevelle. It was running great up until about two weeks ago and it's driving me crazy trying to figure out what's causing it to have multiple miss-fires at various RPM.

My first thought was plug wires and spark plugs so I replaced both and the miss-fires are still there.

I checked the computer for possible trouble codes and came up with code 11 which means all systems check good, of course! :pat:

With no trouble codes I assume all the sensors are good. With that in mind, it seems as though the mis-fire is ignition related, so I put the inductive pickup from my timing light on each plug wire and the coil wire. The timing light flashed inconsistently on each one. Sometimes it would flash steady, then suddenly stop flashing for a few seconds then flash, then stop, ect; there was no pattern.

I went to Mallory's web page and searched for info on the distributor that came with the EFI system. The distributor part # 794820004 doesn't come up in the search on their page. I emailed the Mallory tech line and they answered with it's a custom part for Mass Flo and I could send it in and they'd test it for me.

And yes I talked to the Mass Flo guy. He had me do a test with the tach, which entailed driving the car and watching to see of the tach would change RPM when the engine misfired. He said if the change was drastic, like 1000 or more RPM, then there is a problem with the primary ignition. If the change was small, like a 100 or so RPM, then the problem is on the secondary side. If there was no change, then the ignition system is fine. Naturally, there was no change in the tach RPM even though the engine was obviously mis-firing and then picking back up. My wife even thinks the mis-fire is very obvious.

Oh, and I also dropped a bottle of injector cleaner in the tank just in case, but of course, it didn't help!

So, any suggestions? :dunno:

[My427stang]

I would guess either the Hall effect sensor (distributor pickup) or the TFI module

Both are cheap and you can buy parts for a 1993 Mustang 5.0

Here is a testing/troubleshooting procedure.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html

[Yelcamino]

I would guess either the Hall effect sensor (distributor pickup) or the TFI module

Both are cheap and you can buy parts for a 1993 Mustang 5.0

Here is a testing/troubleshooting procedure.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html

Thanks for the link!

I talked with Mass-Flo yesterday and because the tach RPM never changed during the mis-fire, I was told it's most likely a fuel supply issue. Considering the components that make up my fuel supply system I have doubts about that except for one thing, my pre-filter could need cleaning. Even though the gas tank is a new Rick's unit, there could have been some debris in the tank that's now in the pre-filter. I'm going to check that today; it would be nice if that's all it was.

[My427stang]

Another thing I have seen happen with EEC-IV computers is that the stock capacitors burn up and take out the circuit board. Happens pretty frequently.

If you continue to find nothing, pull the ECM and look at the board. Mine burned up and even the cheapo Autozone replacement had much larger capacitors which supposedly can handle the power better.

In this pic, the arrow points to the burned part. The blue cans with the white centers are the capacitors that did the damage.

The car ran with no codes saying anything was wrong

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/BoardArrows-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Another thing I have seen happen with EEC-IV computers is that the stock capacitors burn up and take out the circuit board. Happens pretty frequently.

If you continue to find nothing, pull the ECM and look at the board. Mine burned up and even the cheapo Autozone replacement had much larger capacitors which supposedly can handle the power better.

In this pic, the arrow points to the burned part. The blue cans with the white centers are the capacitors that did the damage.

The car ran with no codes saying anything was wrong

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/BoardArrows-1.jpg

That's interesting info.

I checked my fuel filters and the pre-filter had some junk in it, but it wasn't even close to being enough to reduce flow. I cleaned it and put everything back together.

Before I cleaned the filter I had to empty the tank so I pumped it into the Elky's tank. Check out the fuel flow before I cleaned the filter (click the picture)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii131/hlumpp/Chevelle/EFI/?action=view&current=MOV02101.mp4)

I still think it's in the ignition by the way it's been running. I was thinking about replacing the ignition module to cure my curiosity. I checked Autozone and Advanced Auto and they're only about $40. A cheap way to eliminate an item. I noticed there are 6 pin and 9 pin modules. Do you know which one I should get? If it turns out the module isn't the problem, I'll check out the circuit board like you mentioned above.

[My427stang]

The TFI module part number is F121 from Autozone, $38.99, and can be changed externally

The Hall effect switch, also called the pickup, is an F122 for $17.99 from Autozone. It cannot be changed from the outside, you have to drive the distributor gear off then pull the shaft upwards and it unbolts easily.

It looks like you can get at the Hall Effect switch from the top, and you can, but you risk losing the shutter wheel timing for the fuel injection. Its a splined shaft and if you don't put it back in the right place, the injector timing will be off. It's FAR easier to pull the distributor and gear.

If it is just the F121 TFI module, and you burn a second one, there is a company that makes an adapter for a remote one, and the price is reasonable. They really don't like heat.

http://www.mccullyracingmotors.com/index_files/tfikits.htm

If mine fails, I'll go with this kit.

[Yelcamino]

The TFI module part number is F121 from Autozone, $38.99, and can be changed externally

The Hall effect switch, also called the pickup, is an F122 for $17.99 from Autozone. It cannot be changed from the outside, you have to drive the distributor gear off then pull the shaft upwards and it unbolts easily.

It looks like you can get at the Hall Effect switch from the top, and you can, but you risk losing the shutter wheel timing for the fuel injection. Its a splined shaft and if you don't put it back in the right place, the injector timing will be off. It's FAR easier to pull the distributor and gear.

If it is just the F121 TFI module, and you burn a second one, there is a company that makes an adapter for a remote one, and the price is reasonable. They really don't like heat.

http://www.mccullyracingmotors.com/index_files/tfikits.htm

If mine fails, I'll go with this kit.

Cool! I'll go to Autozone tomorrrow and pick one up. Hopefully that's all it is. :fingersx:

[Yelcamino]

I replaced the module and it seems to be running better! I haven't taken it for a drive yet, but checking the plug wires with the timing light showed me consistant flashing so I'm optimistic!

[My427stang]

Awesome!

They are very intolerant to heat, so if you lose a second one, take a look at that remote setup

[Yelcamino]

I was finally able to take the Chevelle for a spin tonight and damn it, the engine is running the same as before. So I guess the ignition module isn't the culprit.

Even though the Mass Flo guy quickly dismissed the EFI as the problem and said it must be a mechanical issue, I disagree. If it was mechanical such as a burnt valve or broken ring land, I don't think the problem would be intermittent.

Tomorrow I'm going to take another drive and have the video camera running. Maybe if someone else hears what I'm hearing new ideas will surface. They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I figure a video should be worth at least 2000!

[My427stang]

Standing by...

[Yelcamino]

Standing by...

I drove around with for some video but unfortunately the loudness of the car messes up the audio on the video. There's nothing to hear except noise!

I talked with a EFI guru (supposedly) and after RTTH I'm going to have him put the Chevelle on the chassis dyno and do some diagnostics. He said that would be the best way to check A/F, fuel pressure, etc under load.

My friend and I drove it around a little while ago and he also thinks it's an electronic related issue. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm going to drive it to RTTH anyway. :fingersx:

[My427stang]

Mine is running good, but in some places, like low rpm cruise in 5th (2000 rpm-ish) I have a little buck. I had this tuned out with the Holley

I have decided to go with a Moates Quarterhorse real-time laptop programmable chip. The other benefit it has is real time datalogging and tune as you drive capability.

I'll let you know how it goes, its about 400 bucks for the chip, the cables, and two programs. Binary Editor (does all the tuning and datalogging) and EEC Analyzer (takes your datalogs, reviews them and spits out recommended changes)

They also give a 10% military discount.

In the long run you may be happier with it than just trying to keep reburning your chip.

Did you take the cover off the computer and look to see if you lost a capacitor?

Also, read this:


Unfortunately we hit some turbulence in what otherwise seemed to be a very straightforward path to EFI. As we reported in PartIIfired up immediately and the computer had no problem idling the somewhat aggressive cam. The problem reared it's head when we tried to drive the car. At 3500 rpm the engine would hit a wall. In fact it felt so much like hitting a rev limiter that I checked the car and engine bay several times to see if there was some rpm limit module that I had installed and forgotten about. The solution wouldn't be that easy.

We spent every available hour trying to troubleshoot fuel and ignition. Over the course of a month we swapped out the MSD box, coil, distributor, plug wires, plugs and even the computer. No change - run the motor up in neutral or in gear and it would break up at exactly 3500 rpms every time. We initially thought we were on the right track having identified cavitation in the fuel pump (see Part II. We tracked the problem down to a insufficient filter size before the pump which was restricting flow. Unfortunately swapping the filter out to a larger one didn't resolve the 3500rpm breakup, though it did resolve the cavitation.

Reaching out to the masses

That's where we left off in the last issue. We suspected at this point that the problem had to reside in the wiring but we weren't sure where. Was it a defect, a bad sensor, a short, or some mis-wiring on our part? We were running out of motivation and ideas and decided to reach out to the online enthusiast community for help. We posted our problems on several tech forums and asked for ideas. Then we sat back and hoped someone out there would produce a solution.

After a couple weeksWade Chamberlain, who goes by the handle FFR Cobra on the Corral.net and other forums posted a response which looked to us as being the key to unleash this engine. He suggested that we likely had one of the wires to the distributor TFI module connected to a full-time 12V source, when in fact it should only receive 12V during cranking. He explained that this circuit in the EFI wiring serves to retard timing while engine cranking for faster starting. If the circuit is seeing 12V while the engine is running in effect the timing is being retarded. This made perfect sense, since in fact the 3500rpm break up felt more like a rev limiter then it did a misfire or fuel starvation issue. Wade also added that this is a common mistake when guys convert older vehicles to fuel injection because it is easy to assume that the only connection ever requiring 12V during cranking only is the starter.

When I put mine together, I ran into the same problem. When I first fired it, I just ran jumpers. When I finish wired it, I tied both my MSD box and my computer "start" wire to the solenoid.

Not a problem when cranking, but when I released the key, the continuously hot feed to the MSD would now BACKFEED into the ECM start circuit and do exactly what the FordMuscle article above did.

If you think that may be similar, we can chat more but it's a wiring problem caused by the computer thinking its in start and run at the same time.

[Yelcamino]

No, I haven't taken the cover off yet. I plan to look at it this weekend. Just in case the board is burnt, what's the part number?

I'm interested in how the programable chip works out. Maybe I'll have the nerve to try it!

[My427stang]

Sorry for the late reply, on Emergency Leave in MA. Father passed unexpectedly after a relatively short bout with cancer.

Autozone Part number is 78-4352

Remember, you need to swap the cover off yours though, its unique to Chris' kits. 6 torx bolts does it. Also, you need to clean the contacts where the chip slides onto the new ECM

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Engine-Control-Computer/1993-Ford-Mustang/_/N-izpyuZ9gsp8?counter=4&filterByKeyWord=computer&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=11297_58402_0_1568%2C3498

[Yelcamino]

Sorry for the late reply, on Emergency Leave in MA. Father passed unexpectedly after a relatively short bout with cancer.

Autozone Part number is 78-4352

Remember, you need to swap the cover off yours though, its unique to Chris' kits. 6 torx bolts does it. Also, you need to clean the contacts where the chip slides onto the new ECM

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Engine-Control-Computer/1993-Ford-Mustang/_/N-izpyuZ9gsp8?counter=4&filterByKeyWord=computer&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=11297_58402_0_1568%2C3498

I'm really sorry to hear about your dad.

When you say "swap the cover off" swap it with what? Do I need to get a different cover?

[My427stang]

The main "body" of the Massflo is different than a stock Ford A9L.

6 Torx screws and it lifts off, revealing the circuit board and all the goodies, take the one off your computer and the one off whatever new computer you use and swap them.

2 minute job. The Massflo setup basically has a different "tin" to allow it to be bolted to a panel, you'll see.

Take the lid off anyway before you buy another and see if you see any heat mark, you wont hurt anything, its just a lid.

[Yelcamino]

Ok, I finally figured out what the problem was... A while back I replaced the spark plugs and plug wires because I had a couple of burnt plug wires from being routed under the headers. When I installed the new wires I routed them over the headers and there was planty of clearance from all angles that I could see. The #6 header tube made contact with the wire boot so I installed one of those fiberglass super duper high heat socks over the boot. Needless to say, that didn't work and the fiberglass sock and silicone boot both gave in to the heat.

I knew this had happened but the missfiring I was experiencing was way worse than one plug boot being burnt. Because I couldn't think of any reason why the engine was running poorly other than the ignition, I pulled each plug wire off one at a time. I ultimately found two more boots that were burned, one really bad and one not so bad...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I feel really dumb for not figuring this out quicker, but like I said above, there was plenty of clearance from "all angles that I could see." I replaced the damage boots with 90 degree boots and everything is back to normal, the engine once again runs like a raped ape!

[My427stang]

Good to hear!

Mine is doing well too, although I had a MAF wire break. Chris of course thinks I broke it with the carb stud, but I don't see how I could have, unfortunately this was the MAF I bought from him because it was supposed to have improved airflow

I don't see a noticeable difference in power with either. Regardless, because of the purchase I had a spare and its running great

My game plan over the winter is to convert a 90mm Ford Lightning MAF for some additional airflow and try tuning with that instead. Plus they are WAY cheaper than these LS MAFs

[My427stang]

How's the Elky doing?

I reprogrammed mine, shut off fuel during deceleration (used to backfire and burble) and changed when it goes into closed loop, what a difference in mileage and drivability.

Now I am playing with injector timing, the computer now uses stock Ford injector timing, which means depending on your cam profile, it sprays a closed valve or starts early and then is interpreted as too rich.

After that is adapting a bigger MAF sensor, got a plan for something that will feed the beast LOL

I'll let you know what I come up with, but I sure like it better tweaked!

[Yelcamino]

How's the Elky doing?

I reprogrammed mine, shut off fuel during deceleration (used to backfire and burble) and changed when it goes into closed loop, what a difference in mileage and drivability.

Now I am playing with injector timing, the computer now uses stock Ford injector timing, which means depending on your cam profile, it sprays a closed valve or starts early and then is interpreted as too rich.

After that is adapting a bigger MAF sensor, got a plan for something that will feed the beast LOL

I'll let you know what I come up with, but I sure like it better tweaked!

It sounds like you're getting deep into the Massflo! Definately keep me posted on your progress! I haven't done too much with the Chevelle after changing out the burnt plug boots. It runs pretty good so far.

[lnirenberg]

I have decided to go with a Moates Quarterhorse real-time laptop programmable chip. The other benefit it has is real time datalogging and tune as you drive capability.

I'll let you know how it goes, its about 400 bucks for the chip, the cables, and two programs. Binary Editor (does all the tuning and datalogging) and EEC Analyzer (takes your datalogs, reviews them and spits out recommended changes)

They also give a 10% military discount.

In the long run you may be happier with it than just trying to keep reburning your chip.


I have a Mass-flo on my Bel Air 409. I was considering going to a FAST or similar ECU this winter but the Moates sounds a lot more affordable and easier to set up. Can you give some details of the install and programing and any other feedback you think would help.

Hopefully this isn't too off point for this thread but you guys are running big boy engines so I thought you might have some useful input regarding injector size. I went with the 42lb injectors but this winter I'm swapping out the iron heads for a set of Bob Walla Racing aluminum heads that he has ported to flow 350 cfm+. The 409 was bored out to about 420, Ross forged pistons and Lunati h-beam rods with a balanced stock crank and a Comp cam hydraulic roller setup, so its all pretty stout. I kept the compression to 10:1 so I could run pump gas (93) with the old iron heads. Any input on calculating proper injector size would be appreciated.