68 Firebird (Project: Firechicken)

[Bob's68]

Hello I am new here and this is me and my Father's 1968 Pontiac Firebird. We picked this car up back in 05-06 and then it sat haha. But do to preasure from my mom and my lack of a car we started work on it. It is realitively stock other then a later 76 400. It is a WIP another Father son build. We picked the car up for 1,500 in 05-06 it is realitively rust free other then minor rust in the trunk and in the right rear corner of the back window both tipical of F-bodies. The body and interior is pretty clean for its age. This will be slowly updated but here are some pictures from my Iphone I will take better ones tomorrow. Thank you for veiwing-Bob
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336331955_5c05a71e85-1.jpg
My Trusty hood prop
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336331729_c941893caa-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336331459_06eb877180-1.jpg
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336330755_bfac84b155-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4337075822_2f0a70cd89-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336330285_c7617c7fbb-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4336330013_563e1c3863-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4337075062_e90d42112b-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4337074832_af69fb7833_b-1.jpg
Crappy Iphone pics don't serve it justice will take better ones tomorrow. Here you go enjoy

[CruizinKev]

nice project! good luck with it :twothumbs

[67rstbkt]

Niiiiccccccccccceeee. Keep us updated.

[Bob's68]

Yeah thanks will do

yeah these pictures don't do it justice the body it pretty damn straight and the interior is very clean. I am redoing the head liner this coming week.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

makes me so happy to see these firstgen birds being done..

[ProdigyCustoms]

Love those Firebirds. Welcome aboard.

[Bob's68]

thank you

we also have a 79 Corvette L82 factory 4 speed with 140mph tach not that 80 bs that thing is project money pit haha

[T_Raven]

Looks kinda like my 68
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/DSC00680-1.jpg
Sounds like you got a better deal though

[Bob's68]

Nice yeah it was a steal, couldn't beat it with a stick

[rickpaw]

Nice project. I like the nickname. My friends call my 67 Firebird "grilled chicken" because of all the rust.

Tu

[68400BIRD]

Looks like a great starting point. I noticed the 400 front bumper and hood. But no 400 on the rear deck lid or the filler panels in the engine compartment. Is it a real 400 car?

[DAVE68]

I'm a chevy guy, but imho the 67/68 firebirds look tougher than the camaros. Nice project!

[Bob's68]

I know the engine is a 76 400 but i haven't ran the vin numbers to see if the body is a "true" 400 but i don't believe it is.

[68400BIRD]

I know the engine is a 76 400 but i haven't ran the vin numbers to see if the body is a "true" 400 but i don't believe it is.


I was just curious, My car came with a lot of 400 stuff on it but I don't think mine is a 400 either. Build it the way you want it and please keep the pics coming.

[Bob's68]

yeah I am waiting on seals for the trunk doors and windows. They are all rotted but hey its a 68.

[Bob's68]

By the way new pics will be up later tonight or tomorrow, like i said slow up date will have more detailed pictures to give a better idea of what im dealing with.

[Munster]

Let the spending begin. Hope you and your father enjoy the time together while working on your project. Pay close attention because more than likely these will be the moments you look back apon from the future with great admiration.

[12jsevans]

Looks like a real solid project keep us updated

[ZVT]

Awesome starting point I prefer the firebirds over the camaro's but then again I am biased cos my project is a 68 bird father son project(more father than son he is 2 lol)

[Jim Nilsen]

Interesting that you have a crutch for Firebirds, I have a crutch for Camaros but I never thought I could take a picture of it. I thought it was all in my mind!

Nice project

[jro183]

Good luck and keep us updated.

[Bob's68]

So my starter is acting up it is not engaging like 3 out of 10 times it will engage and spin the engine but the other 7 it will either not grab and free spin or hit for a second and slip. Any Ideas? maybe from lack of use or starter is crapping out.

[Steve Firebird]

Looks like a good starting point for a great ride. You may need to clean up or replace the solenoid on the starter and or adjust / shim the starter, it maybe to close or too far away from the flywheel.
Good luck Steve

[Bob's68]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4357516679_22bce26bb2-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4358264836_11c27a3fdd-1.jpg
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/4357523707_11cc457105-1.jpg

Here is the most rust on the car there are only a few holes in the trunk. Some rust under the right rear corner of the rear window, and some damage under the left tail light.

[Bob's68]

Small Update

New starter coming

should be up and running again this weekend

[Bob's68]

Update

Had eletrical problems power was not making it to the interior and the rest of the car.

The wire running from the junction block was cut.

New starter will be here Monday.

[MARK4956]

Nice project. I am doing a 1968 firebird convt. Lots of fun to work on.

[Bob's68]

Update

Got new starter, should be running Wensday, video of epic moment. First time it will run on its own since buying the car haha. Once we do this we will have over come one of the biggest problems of the car and then it will be time to see what we have.

[Bob's68]

cool man I have always had a soft spot for verts

[chunger]

Nice project. I noticed the classic Grant wheel. Seems like almost every car from the 80's had that exact steering wheel. I remember buying one of those for my first Mustang .... ah good times...

[Bob's68]

yep it had plastic mirrors and that big mirror on the inside that went from one side to the other product of the 80s lol

[chunger]

yep it had plastic mirrors and that big mirror on the inside that went from one side to the other product of the 80s lol

Ah yes, Wink mirrors. Funky looking with 6 or 7 small mirrors all mounted at an angle. They actually worked pretty good, if your car had decent visibility around the C pillars. Mine was mounted in my 67 Mustang fastback, which of course, has VERY large C pillars, thus rendering this mirror almost worthless over a stocker.

More 80's checks - Garter belt wrapped around the tach, which is held on by a hose clamp on the steering column? Yellow Acell wires? Big yellow coil? M/T valve covers? Headers painted white?

Good times, good times...

[6'9"Witha69]

That's not just 80's!!

[Munster]

I actually really liked my Wink mirror. And it was even in a old mazda rotary pickup with a chopped roof. Kinda big in there but I sure could see what was behind me. I like the concept.

[Bob's68]

my biggest problem with the mirrow is how tall i am I sit so high up that the mirrow was truthfully to low. And I really didnt care for it i still have it just sitting on my bench.

[Tuske427]

welcome, and that's awesome that you too are building a first gen bird. What are your plans for the car?

[Bob's68]

Thank you

I am still in planning stages right now its all about money we know what we want but how are we going to achieve it haha.

[Bob's68]

Ok so I have another problem No spark

I possible believe from looking at my wire diagrams that we are missing a wire from the starter battery cable running to the starter another wire running off. it cranks but apon pulling a plug and cracking no spark. missing the yellow wire, look at the diagram. could this be the root of the problem?

[rohrt]

The purple ("S"tart) wire will send 12V to the solinoid and it acts like a relay to send that 12V back out the the yellow wire ("R"un wire). The pink resistive wire will have around 9volts to the coil all the time so it doesn't cook it. When cranking the Yellow will put a full battery voltage to the coil to help increase the spark. Your voltage will drop while cranking so have a full 12 to the coil helps bost the spark.

Make sure you are in park and the wires are connected to the shifter for the neuteral safety switch.

If this car was converted to an HEI the yellow wire is not really needed but from the pictures that doesn't seem to be the case. If its still using a points setup then you should replace the yellow wire.

I would start first by seeing if you have voltage at the coil. If you do then go to the coil. You should be able to ohm out the coil and check for an open connection. If that looks good then go to the points. You can manualy close the points and check for a spark or pull a plug and keep it grounded, turn over the starter and see if you get a spark.

Its pretty cheap to just replace the coil, condensor and points and start new. just make sure you have power to the coil. Rent a dwell meter and get your dwell adjusted to 30deg.

[Bob's68]

IT IS RUNNING!!! the carb is still acting up a bit bit now fires an starts coil was bad

[Bob's68]

Small update

getting weather stripping for the whole car

I am rebuilding my quadrafail carb at work.

and finally starting work on the body

[Bob's68]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/4496079632_4a1dcb2046_b-1.jpg

Alright got a rear veiw a side mirrow and weather stripping

Picked up at Matt's Classic Bowties in Dublin Ca. great selection and good people check it out

http://www.mattsclassicbowties.com/

[Bob's68]

Sad Moment today, as I said before saying the engine was a 400, well I was incorrect I assumed it was do to the top end being that of a 77, but upon looking up the block casting 9786339 it turns out to be a 67 327, so the owner before me slapped a 400 top end to a tiny 327. Time to start looking around for an another engine. I wanted to use the "400" for the time but a 327 come on.

[1971CHEVELLE]

nice project

[Bob's68]

thank you

[68firebird]

Great project, I'm partially biased to the 68 firebirds, haha. Thanks for posting the link to that matt's classic bowties, I never heard of them. keep the updates coming....

[Bob's68]

Moved my Firebird to the shop we will be doing work there on it for a bit. Pictures soon.

[rohrt]

Good luck with the engine search.

Love this thread.

[Bob's68]

Ok, 326 has been disassembled. The idiot before me put 100cc 400 heads on the 326, this caused the pour running and being utterly gutless. However my fathers 2000 Z28 was just recently totaled cause it got hit in the rear. So now the plan is to move forward and transplant over the LS1, 4l60e, brakes, rack and pinion, and what ever else. Even the AC is being considered. I am taking the camaro back over to work to drop the engine and transmission. Will be giving the tranny to interstate to rebuild and the engine to Joe at Yosemite machine to rebuild. I do have questions regarding brakes ( some info from any one) I want to use the LS1 brakes, how would i go about swapping that over.

[Ishmael]

Well that cloud had a silver lining! There is a ton of info on the ls engine swap and the ls brake swap in their respective forums. You could even use the dash and seats.

[Bob's68]

I like the metal dash, the seats are pretty trashed how ever i am considering buying a complete set of black leather WS6 seats off craigslist.

[geberhard]

Bob, hey, great to see another local bird! BTW, I have a great contact in Danville who went througha very similar setup on his 68, and LS1 swap, (Chris). Let me know if you need any introductions :) I am in the Dublin\Pleasanton area, posted a thread on a few of the projects going on.

Gui

[Bob's68]

Hello, and thank you. Yes I am always looking for new contacts. Right now i am in the process of parting the donor car to help better supply the swap fund. You got a very solid car, shocked to see a car form the 60s that didn't get hit in the L/R rear corners, mine wasn't lucky but the damage is not bad enough that it would need to be out right replaced it can be repaired. Plans near future would be to replace the trunk pan and mini-tub while i am there. The front clip will most likely replaced because pricing on getting the small amounts of rust and damage repared on the fenders out weighed the cost of buying two fenders from OER.

[Bob's68]

Had my brake brackets made, will be cleaned up and powder coated.

Thanks for the help from the people who gave suggestions.
Brackets from: http://john.my67.net/Suspension.htm

[Bob's68]

Haven't done much besides small stuff considering I do not have a job at the moment. Good news old 326 is out. However I am looking for parts, where can i get new solid sub-frame and radiator support bushings? I know they exist, i just haven't been able to locate them.

Further more, I have used the search button but I am just wondering if someone could chime in and give their opinion I am torn between Doug's Headers (http://www.jegs.com/i/Dougs-Headers/776/D3337/10002/-1) and Hookers Headers (http://www.jegs.com/i/Hooker+Headers/520/2288-1/10002/-1). Because from there I will decide on the motor mounts thank you!

Also the brake brackets i had made up don't work to well the offset is wrong. So does anyone know of a company that sales brake brackets for LS1 brakes?

Sorry for generally noobish questions. Since there are so many options it makes it a bit difficult to decide. Thanks.

[Hammered]

Wow - I just stumbled on this. Sorry my brackets didn't work. I assume you're working on the fronts? If so, the lower hole to spindle needs to be shimmed. Also, the total material thickness is important. I had the details on my site, but thanks to Bill Gates giving up on Frontpage, it is down until I figure out how to convert it to a newer publisher.

[Bob's68]

Wow - I just stumbled on this. Sorry my brackets didn't work. I assume you're working on the fronts? If so, the lower hole to spindle needs to be shimmed. Also, the total material thickness is important. I had the details on my site, but thanks to Bill Gates giving up on Frontpage, it is down until I figure out how to convert it to a newer publisher.

I sent a PM your way.

[lucky13firebird]

you could always buy a 400 short block and drop your heads on it, or better yet send your heads in and buy a 461 stroker long block built off your heads. 100cc sounds perfect for a 461ci supercharger motor..... drool....

[Bob's68]

you could always buy a 400 short block and drop your heads on it, or better yet send your heads in and buy a 461 stroker long block built off your heads. 100cc sounds perfect for a 461ci supercharger motor..... drool....

That Idea did get thrown around a lot. I was originally intending to buy a set of H.O 326 heads. However with the end of the Z28 this LS1 came into my hands. I wont lie to a point I keep considering selling the LS and building a Pontiac.

[LeighP]

Doug's would be my personal choice....they have a great rep for fit.

[Bob's68]

Insane to think this started 3 years ago. Never thought I would be into this much but not really be anywhere.

It never panned out to be a father son project, just turned into it being myself. I have had other priorities which is my own fault. I need to get it going, its sad to see such a wonderful vehicle sit.

Big changes in 2013. Note to anyone, if it is not running and driving by the end of next year I will personally give whom ever my address and you can come to my house and punch me in my face.

Merry Christmas to everyone and I hope you all are having a wonderful holiday season.

[im4u2nvss]

Note to anyone, if it is not running and driving by the end of next year I will personally give whom ever my address and you can come to my house and punch me in my face.




I like that one! Keep up the work, you will be happy you did in the end.

[Bob's68]

81569

Well I do not know if I will get it running by December but I will try!

Small update I have been chugging along on the car, got a new job so that makes buying parts great!

I picked up a master kit from energy suspension, also picked up a set of Dirty Dingo motor mounts.

my next order should make some real progress.

[Bob's68]

I do not want to make a thread for this question but has anyone used Tanks Inc EFI fuel tank? It is budget friendly with everything priced out at 465.

Please and thank you!

[Tom Welch]

Check out Speed Tech Performance and Proforged for solid subframe bushings, Call Tobin at Kore 3 for brakes, SPC for upper and lower control arms, A Ford Explorer or Mercury Mountaineer rear axle assembly will bolt in with minor mods and will already have disc brakes, good gears and a posi diff, not all of them but quite a few. The Ford 8.8 diff is strong, too. PSI for wiring harness, We have used Stainless Works headers with excellent results.

[Bob's68]

I decided to just use energy suspension body bushings. Kore 3 is the company I am going through for my mounting brackets. ford 8.8 rear ends are great, just then my rear axels would have 5x114.3 bolt pattern which isnt a bad thing, its just the fact my front hubs would be 5x120. I was just looking at PSI harness about an hour ago, I still have my complete harness, but for only $500 from PSI that would save me one hell of a headache. Stainless Works headers simply amazing, just out of my budget for now. I have been debating between Hooker's and Doug's headers.

[Bob's68]

Small Update, picked up my frame mounts from summit.

[Bob's68]

I did not make my deadline of having it running by December. However the project changed directions for the better.
Pulled the subframe, I have it over at a friends ship and we are making necessary repairs to the frame and I we are seam welding it, switching over to speed-techs Chicane coil over set up, and will be off to powder coat.
900599006090061

[Bob's68]

Oh, I also took another forum members advice and snatched a 8.8 from a ford explorer. Will be swapping the axles out to moser units.
90062

I guess not turning back at this point.

90063

I might have also picked up a set of my favorite wheels for dirt cheap. HRE 540s

90064
90065

Sorry for crummy photos.

[Bob's68]

Ordered some parts for the LS1 from Improved Racing. Great company! Ordered a LS1 oil pan baffle, LS6 PCV assembly, and all of my gaskets. But dummy me forget to order the coolant crossover tube.
Speedtech Chicane Coilovers with be here Monday, then once the brackets are welded up, the frame will be off to powder! :attn:
91273
91274

[lucky13firebird]

NICE, i love how you swapped over to the ford exlorer rear end. BTW no need to swap over to moser axles... the 31 spline axles on those things are beefy enough to wheelstand a first gen F-body without worry. i hope you got posi with that. 373 or 411 gears? or were you lucky enough to find a 355 explorer rear?

also, the explorer 8.8 is basically a ford 12 bolt, c clips and everything, so just pull out the axles and take them to a local machine shop and have them drill the axles and rotors for 5x120.6 and you'll be just fine... drill in between the 5x114.3 holes so you wind up with 10 holes.

OR just order custom moser axles like you wanted and order them in 5x120... won't cost you any more really. and then just drill the rotors.

[99 blue bird]

Why go with the 8.8 instead of the gm unit in the car? It's an 8.2 10 bolt right? I have seen them hold power compared to the new 7.5 10 bolts. Just curious if it's a cost effective thing?

[lucky13firebird]

its a cost effective thing. i got an 8.8 for $134 bucks one time with 373 gears, limited slip and disc brakes. Also they are 31 spline axles and super beefy.

i modded the leaf perches to match the 68 mustang i put it in and bought a 1310 u joint thing for the yoke for $35 bucks... so under $200 and it was under my car with all of the above said goodness. they are 60" wide and fit mustangs and gm F body cars with no changes to wheel offset or anything else. you'll need to drill the axles for 5x4.75 for a gm application so lets say that costs you $100 with new studs... so $300 bucks and its under your camaro or firebird with a stout gear ratio and limited slip. AND they are unbreakable... or for $200 you throw it under and just use ford wheels...

now lets say you take a stock 8.2 ten bolt with 2.80 gears and add up basic math.

gears and posi will set you back $550, i just looked on ebay at a no name complete kit with 3.73 gears.

then you need to spend $250 on an ls1 brake setup for the rear plus $35 for the bracket spacer thing from BRP hotrods or whatever...

$550+$285

thats $835 for 373 gears, a no name posi unit and decent disc brakes (not even fancy mind you) and all that with crap 28 spline axles and a pretty weak ring gear that'll only hold stock power levels....

or save $500 and throw all the power you want at the 8.8 (NOT the mustang one, those are 28 spline) and never worry about breaking the 31 spline axles that were meant for truck abuse...

i went gm for my firebird and used a $400 chevelle 12 bolt housing with $235 moser axles and a $350 camaro ss posi unit and $125 1350 yoke and $350 for LS brakes with drilled rotors and $35 spring perches i had to weld on myself and a $150 rear bearing support girdle cover...

i'm in it WELL over 1k and i built it myself and did my own welding and reused the 331 gears... same setup is upwards of $2500 or more...

i dunno man, $300 and using your gm wheels or $200 and using ford wheels sounds REALLY good after that...

[99 blue bird]

Ok cool. Thanks for the insight. Gives me something to look into with my firebird. I'm probably gonna go with a 4 link in the rear so that can be fabricated to work with the 8.8 I'm sure. Cool to know there is other budget minded options out there.


its a cost effective thing. i got an 8.8 for $134 bucks one time with 373 gears, limited slip and disc brakes. Also they are 31 spline axles and super beefy.

i modded the leaf perches to match the 68 mustang i put it in and bought a 1310 u joint thing for the yoke for $35 bucks... so under $200 and it was under my car with all of the above said goodness. they are 60" wide and fit mustangs and gm F body cars with no changes to wheel offset or anything else. you'll need to drill the axles for 5x4.75 for a gm application so lets say that costs you $100 with new studs... so $300 bucks and its under your camaro or firebird with a stout gear ratio and limited slip. AND they are unbreakable... or for $200 you throw it under and just use ford wheels...

now lets say you take a stock 8.2 ten bolt with 2.80 gears and add up basic math.

gears and posi will set you back $550, i just looked on ebay at a no name complete kit with 3.73 gears.

then you need to spend $250 on an ls1 brake setup for the rear plus $35 for the bracket spacer thing from BRP hotrods or whatever...

$550+$285

thats $835 for 373 gears, a no name posi unit and decent disc brakes (not even fancy mind you) and all that with crap 28 spline axles and a pretty weak ring gear that'll only hold stock power levels....

or save $500 and throw all the power you want at the 8.8 (NOT the mustang one, those are 28 spline) and never worry about breaking the 31 spline axles that were meant for truck abuse...

i went gm for my firebird and used a $400 chevelle 12 bolt housing with $235 moser axles and a $350 camaro ss posi unit and $125 1350 yoke and $350 for LS brakes with drilled rotors and $35 spring perches i had to weld on myself and a $150 rear bearing support girdle cover...

i'm in it WELL over 1k and i built it myself and did my own welding and reused the 331 gears... same setup is upwards of $2500 or more...

i dunno man, $300 and using your gm wheels or $200 and using ford wheels sounds REALLY good after that...

[lucky13firebird]

Well, you gotta keep in mind Buick Olds pontiac 8.2 rears are a lot stronger than the Chevy ones and also have bolt in axles. C clip eliminators are a joke when trying to corner hard on 275 mm or bigger tires, they're for straight line drags.... so for a light firebird with an ls swap (less torque but more hp than a pontiac buildup) a bop rear with a $500 posi unit and and upgraded axles would cost $750 or so BUT you're making that back with the time=money thing... The rear is already under the car and a lot of pontiac came with 355 gears in even the straight six birds... it's six of one and half dozen of the other sometimes ;-)

[Bob's68]

Could have said it better myself. It truly came down to cost effective. I paid 200 for my 8.8 on a somewhat lower milage Explorer, came with a trutrac and 3.73 gears. To be honest the only real concern I have with using the rear end is the substantial offset of the differential. If I remember right it is a little under 2 and .5 inches over to the right. Using the BOP rear end is still in question but after building it I would have an easy 1k in it from axels,diff, and brakes. I snatched the 8.8 up because it fell right into my lap. There is some debate on using it though however still. But the time involved is the only real set back with the 8.8.

[Jetfixr320]

The 8.8" from the Explorer is very easy to narrow. Cut 3" from the drivers side tube and weld it back together. Use another passenger side axle. Good to go.

[lucky13firebird]

Yup, or do what I did for the mustang and just don't worry about it... I know of people who wheel stand stock explorer rears with no mods under a way fast 68 camaro and neither the offset or the stock axles were a problem