OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car to air on SPEED

[justimagine]

A reminder to all:

Optima Invitational on TV.

The program will air nationally on SPEED on January 30 at 11:00 a.m. ET and again on January 31 at 4:00 p.m. ET. This never before seen footage will cover several of the intense vehicle builds in the days leading up to the competition, driver and vehicle appearances at the Specialty Equipment Manufacturing Association (SEMA) trade show and focus on all of the event racing excitement, proving what these specialty vehicles and aftermarket products are capable of.

[JEFFTATE]

I'm gonna watch this Saturday before the 24hrs of Daytona , and again on Sunday !!

Thanks for posting this reminder !!
I don't want to miss seeing my friends on SPEED !!

[chevyhector]

I have it set to record, I have a wadding on Sat and I will be at the Long beach swap meet on Sun. But the good thing is that I was at the premier on tuesday.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Will watch Sunday,thanks for the reminder.:smoke:

[wiedemab]

I was out there for the event - it was awesome! I hope the show does it justice!!!

There is nothing like being there, but I hope they captured some really good footage to show.

DVR set and I can't wait!

[mpozzi]

The OPTIMA Premiere was incredible and thanks to all that made this happen. And to Jimi Day and Cam Douglass for being such an asset and so supportive to our car addiction affliction.

This show on SPEED will definitely capture the essence of the OUSCI and there's a lot of coverage for many of us Pro-Touring peeps and their cars.

Cheers and thanks again, Jimi, et al,
Mary Pozzi

[justimagine]

Thanks for the props Mary, it feels good to be doing something that, I hope in the end, makes a difference! That being said, I think when it's all over this weekend, you will turn out to be a real star of the show!!

[chevyhector]

Hey Mary, YOU ARE THE WOMAN ! Much respect!!

[mpozzi]

I can't believe I insulted my car so bad. And after all the good things it does for me ... note to self: must apologize with offerings of octane this weekend.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[buickfunnycar.com]

That being said, I think when it's all over this weekend, you will turn out to be a real star of the show!!

Better get Dave to widen those home doors Mary so you can fit your head through...:yum:

[Steve1968LS2]

I can't believe I insulted my car so bad. And after all the good things it does for me ... note to self: must apologize with offerings of octane this weekend.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

I'm glad I found that you don't just talk to MY car that way.. lol

[mpozzi]

Better get Dave to widen those home doors Mary so you can fit your head through...:yum:

Nah ... wouldn't worry about that, John. My 15 seconds of fame will be over and done with pretty quick.

Was very surprised that my car got as much footage as it did. So many of the cars that were there are so uber-Pro Touring and of much better quality plus have gobs more horsepower than mine. Lots of cool interviews with the drivers and builders plus shows the foundation that many took to get themselves and their cars to the event.

If you didn't get to attend OUSCI in person, this show will be the next best thing ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[BLT2DRIVE]

I can't believe I insulted my car so bad. And after all the good things it does for me ... note to self: must apologize with offerings of octane this weekend.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi
I don't know if all of your audio will make prime-time...LOL!!! May end up sounding like an alarm bell or Casino slots going off!!! LOL!! Your clip was the highlight!! It got a good roar from the crowd! Well done Mary!! Awesome Premier.... Congrats Jimi and Cam, Bud too!!

[Dayton]

Just set the DVR

[JEFFTATE]

It's about to come on !!!

[zbugger]

"Trailers are for boats. We drive our cars." - Bill Howell

Hilarious to hear on television, but so true. Only 14 minutes in and it's already a cool show..... Till Charley shows up on screen. Thanks for killing it Bubba. lol....

[thetoystore]

pure awsome

[colt zantop]

awesome coverage! cant wait to watch it again!

[JEFFTATE]

Well , I saw "part" of it .
It's my Saturday to work here at the Dealership , and I snuck over into the customer lounge and caught the first 15 minutes or so.
I can't wait to get home and see the hole thing .

" Trailers are for boats " .
That's pretty good Bill !!

[badchry]

just saw the show....great coverage.

nice to see some cars i'm actually familiar with (RTTH).

for our Southern Super Heavy Shootouts in Atlanta we always had a "theme" and would put it on the t-shirts. (Size Does Matter.....)

Bill's comment ranks right up there... "Trailers are for boats...we drive our cars"

[Desert68]

The show was great! Nicely done and very, very professional. Mercy, if this was the first year, there is certainly a very bright future for this event in coming years.

[PT Sportwagon]

I made sure I got up on early on my day off to watch. Wasn't disappointed. It gave me something to shoot for with the wagon. How ever I didn't see any Buicks? Maybe I'll be the first.

Tim

[Texas 1972 Velle]

Great Show!

[Ron S]

That was an awesome show. Totally showed what our little hobby is about, and the guys and gals who love it. I know I've said it 20 times,but I am SO sorry I missed this one, can't wait till next year. I don't know if any of us can compete with the weight difference in the Cobra though, but who cares the events we have been doing are so cool. Bills quote was the best. Ron

[Larry Callahan]

Well , I saw "part" of it .
It's my Saturday to work here at the Dealership , and I snuck over into the customer lounge and caught the first 15 minutes or so.
I can't wait to get home and see the hole thing .

" Trailers are for boats " .
That's pretty good Bill !!

You may get a kick out of this

http://www.cafepress.com/ProTouring.430049617

[rossmacd]

Just sat down and watched it; it was alot of fun. Something about the production seemed a little weird to me, but I sure enjoyed them talking about the cars a little bit. And I LOVED watching that vette get flogged. Such a beautiful car, and to see it go like snot, what a treat.

[tazzz25906112]

You may get a kick out of this

http://www.cafepress.com/ProTouring.430049617


Now THAT'S some funny **** there Larry.....

Cam, Jimi & Wally, Greg, & Cynthia,,,,,, Thanks for supporting the whole pro-touring culture and making this Optima challenge one of the life time experiences/events that one doesn't soon forget when fortunate enough to participate....We're all really fortunate to have this support combined with Larry, Steve and Nick reinforcing just how fantastic our pro-touring events and community can be. Thank you all for the privilege of calling you friends...

[TA219]

What a great show! it was awesome to see all of the cars that I read about in action!

[JEFFTATE]

You may get a kick out of this

http://www.cafepress.com/ProTouring.430049617


That's great !!
I just hurt myself laughing !!
I gotta' get one.
Thanks Larry ..

[rockytopper]

Wow Great Show. Nice to put a face to you PRO PROTOURING FOLKS. I see why you guys love this sport. It made me want to go out and climb in my LS powered cutlass and go have some fun. Then I remembered I got it stripped down to bare metal and it's wet out side. Darn it. I had to go hop in the RZR and get the fustration out. I taped the show and will watch over and over. Only car I wish they had shown more of was the 57 convert they showed backing down the trailer at the first. Any one have a link to more info on that car? My favorite part was the wagon skidding into the dirt during the 0-60-0 competion.

[dadto2jays]

It was a great show....Definetly some great vehicles in there. It was cool to see some of the vehicles I have only seen picts before in action today...

[lftnwhls]

Congrats to all the participants very cool. I really liked Mary swearing.

Where was the Motivator?? I only saw the hood of it behind the Cobra.

[Larry Callahan]

Congrats to all the participants very cool. I really liked Mary swearing.

Where was the Motivator?? I only saw the hood of it behind the Cobra.

They also showed it during one of the 5 or 6 times I ran the 0-60-0 where the timing computer kept failing. On the 5th or 6th run it recorded a number and I opted not to run again to see if I could get a better time. My brake bias was off after bedding the brakes a few days before and I didn't get a chance to re-adjust it. I was hoping at least my spin off into the gravel pit would make the cut but it didn't.

[xxxturbo6]

Classic Bill Howell, and adds it on national telivision to boot !! LOL

But what he don't tell everyone is that his "Trailer isn't far behind the boat!" LOL

Tuned in to watch it again tonight at 4:00 pm..


Scot W.

[gearbanger]

Man that was an awesome show! That looks like so much fun. Those are some of the best looking cars in the world in my opinion, they look so much better running a course than they do sitting in a car show arena!

I wish they would have talked the about the Cobra more. I thought it seemed like they really didn't want the guy there. They didn't talk about the motor much less show it. It seemed kind of whiney to keep talking about how it was "custom built for road racing". Like the camaro, boss mustang, and corvettes weren't?

[Steve1968LS2]

Man that was an awesome show! That looks like so much fun. Those are some of the best looking cars in the world in my opinion, they look so much better running a course than they do sitting in a car show arena!

I wish they would have talked the about the Cobra more. I thought it seemed like they really didn't want the guy there. They didn't talk about the motor much less show it. It seemed kind of whiney to keep talking about how it was "custom built for road racing". Like the camaro, boss mustang, and corvettes weren't?

It had a dry sump 427 FE engine and Bruce said it was somthing like 900 hp.. cool stuff.

The problem with the Cobra was that it was in a different class in terms of weight.

The typical pro-touring car is a mundane street car turned into a handling car. Take Jackass or Penny for example. Those are ill handling car that through the use of aftermarket parts are made to handle.

The Cobra was build AS a race car.. and then made better from there. It should have won and was a bad ass mofo for sure.

Personally I didn't feel that it really was a street car.. could it be driven on the street? yea, but with open side pipes, no windshield, race gas and all that it didn't fit into the spirit of the event. Even the owner stated that it was taken off "street duty" back in 1970.

There was also the driver issue, but nobody protested it so it is what it is.

It was the best handling car there, no doubt

Pointing our facts isn't "whiny".. it's how the event is adjusted for next year. If a bunch of Cobras are going to show up then there's no point in our cars trying to beat them. It's just physics.

[Larry Callahan]

It was also too loud. I'd like to see the decibel meter used next year.

[gearbanger]

It had a dry sump 427 FE engine and Bruce said it was somthing like 900 hp.. cool stuff.

The problem with the Cobra was that it was in a different class in terms of weight.

The typical pro-touring car is a mudane street car turned into a handling car. Take Jackass or Penny for example. Those are ill handling car that through the use of aftermarket parts are made to handle.

The Cobra was build AS a race car.. and then made better from there. I should have won and was a bad ass mofo for sure.

Personally I didn't feel that it really was a street car.. could it be driven on the street? yea, but with open side pipes, no windshield, race gas and all that it didn't fit into the spirit of the event. Even the owner stated that it was taken off "street duty" back in 1970.

There was also the driver issue, but nobody protested it so it is what it is.

It was the best handling car there, no doubt

Pointing our facts isn't "whiny".. it's how the event is adjusted for next year. If a bunch of Cobras are going to show up then there's no point in our cars trying to beat them. It's just physics.


I agree. I guess maybe everyone felt as if they had been screwed. It was cool to watch, and I would have really liked to have seen more of an expose on the Cobra, but still a very cool show.

I still say that a cobra is simply an AC Ace that was souped up for racing, just like a corvette was souped for racing. Mustangs and Camaros are transam cars, so it is all splitting hairs a little bit. But I will agree that the cobra doesn't need the carbon fiber everything and aluminum small blocks with turbos and blowers to get the power to weight where it needs to be.

It is the same treatment that the Chevelles get from the Camaros all the time I guess. Just a physical advantage. Maybe they should add a handicap to your car according to your power to weight ratio. That way you could let everyone play, and not have to allways have a first gen camaro be the winner.

[tommycomfort]

Great coverage! It got my whole family excited for next season. The wife watched it at her firehouse, I watched it at my firehouse, and the kids watched it at home and we all sent text messages back and forth during the show. We needed a motivator to finish our 66 project!
Tom

[68cutlass]

It is the same treatment that the Chevelles get from the Camaros all the time I guess. Just a physical advantage. Maybe they should add a handicap to your car according to your power to weight ratio. That way you could let everyone play, and not have to allways have a first gen camaro be the winner.

Exactly. Being a fellow A-body owner with a big block, I can't really hope to compete with 1st gen camaros with LS motors, or 427 Cobras. We're all competitive and would love to win an event like this, but you have to be realistic about our cars and why we have built them in the first place. If I were constructing a purpose-built race car, there are better platforms to start with than sixties/seventies muscle cars.

-Mark

[gearbanger]

Kind of lets you see how nascar got to where it is doesn't it.

I think that would be really a cool way to do it next year though. If you could trust people to run test laps all out and not sandbag, you could handicap it that way. Or you could just apply a factor based on horspower to weight, but you would have to be able to trust what the person says is his hp and weight.

Or, you could just run what ya brung and hope ya brung enough!!!!!!

[John McIntire]

I watched it this morning and the show was amazing! I really enjoyed it. Like others had said, it was nice to see faces and be able to relate them to members here on the board. The cars being driven the way they were supposed to was also nice to see! Some of them just plain kick ass!
I must admit, that Cobra was bad ass!! During the 0-60-0 it looked like it took no time for it to accomplish that, looked like it was done in half the distance of the other cars!
Great show and footage, it would be cool to see more video from the ZR1 chase car! They should have had that car compete too! (but not really count!)

[gearbanger]

I was amazed by the Z06. Was it able to keep up with the competitors no problem, or was it just certain spots on the track it would catch some footage. Doesn't seem like it would have the juice to run with the LS9 camaro or the cobra.

[MIGOAT]

I thought it was awesome seeing the cars from RTTH and Familiar rides. I had my surround sound on very LOUD. I hope one day to be able to get the ride out on the track. The show was very inspirational! that cobra was nasty what motor is he running?

[wicked68]

It had a dry sump 427 FE engine and Bruce said it was somthing like 900 hp.. cool stuff.

The problem with the Cobra was that it was in a different class in terms of weight.

The typical pro-touring car is a mudane street car turned into a handling car. Take Jackass or Penny for example. Those are ill handling car that through the use of aftermarket parts are made to handle.

The Cobra was build AS a race car.. and then made better from there. I should have won and was a bad ass mofo for sure.

Personally I didn't feel that it really was a street car.. could it be driven on the street? yea, but with open side pipes, no windshield, race gas and all that it didn't fit into the spirit of the event. Even the owner stated that it was taken off "street duty" back in 1970.

There was also the driver issue, but nobody protested it so it is what it is.

It was the best handling car there, no doubt

Pointing our facts isn't "whiny".. it's how the event is adjusted for next year. If a bunch of Cobras are going to show up then there's no point in our cars trying to beat them. It's just physics.

I would actually like to see this event or one like it focus on 60's / 70's pro touring cars only. the newer cars and some of the rat rod type cars as well were distractions imho. I would like to see it focus on the cars that we do on this board mainly that you pretty much rebuild from the ground up. the rat rod type cars are cool - but lets face it they are not real competition either - they are simply filling a slot.

All the newer stuff and the real race cars that are not street legal or really not street cars fill slots also.

I would also like to see the drivers scoped in so that it really is the owners driving to level the playing field.

Finally more focus on what went into the cars on the show would be nice too - didnt see a lot of engine and parts of the older cars.....except a few that were high lighted being picked up off the course. lol

[wicked68]

I am installing a dry sump system on my car

I already installed vent lines from my differential housing to a nice aluminum catch can in the trunk and moved my crankcase vent line from the front of one of my valve covers to the top.

I am also installing a new rear diff with slightly different gearing.

Finally I am changed my brakes setup by moving the mount points of my plunger to the pedal and using some different pads.

I learned a lot being able to see real time and experience real time different modes of racing and then get pointers from various experts in the different areas. Well worth the get together.

My car will be much better for attending this event. I hope it will be a primo all around car now that I can drag race / road race and autocross. This spring I will find out.

Thanks again for the invite :D

[MIGOAT]

Yeah some photos of the set up or engine shots would have been really nice.
I agree the Rods are kindo off in this event as well even though I love them but don't feel that they had what it takes to be top 5.

The late model cars Z06, GTR, and Bently are close to race as well. Bently as a race car well not really but whats the price of one ? Fun to watch dream of owning but not for the Event.
my .02

[badchry]

It was also too loud. I'd like to see the decibel meter used next year.

or maybe a weight limit (3000 lbs w/ driver)

note: i also saw the cobra w/ R-compound tires mounted (autocross?) ... talk about bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. you guys didn't stand a chance.

probably should have had him in the demo class anyway

[tazzz25906112]

Hey everybody wants to win,,,, but Hell I'll settle for being at a first class event like this and having the privilege to run against such an iconic car like that!!!!

You know he'll kick butt, but heck there is no shame in loosing to something like that guys. The whole thing is freedom of expression and a show/road car,,,right.

Now the Cobra is pretty much boarder line car given it's race bread history, but they did run them on the road back then and I'd much rather have the freedom to chose and express than the regulations and rules....

[CarlC]

Hey everybody wants to win,,,, but Hell I'll settle for being at a first class event like this and having the privilege to run against such an iconic car like that!!!!

I completely agree Albert.

[Steve1968LS2]

It was also too loud. I'd like to see the decibel meter used next year.

It really wasn't any louder than Big Red was the year before.. lol

[Vegas69]

It was also too loud. I'd like to see the decibel meter used next year.

Larry, come on buddy...... If it's to loud, you're to old. Or something like that. :1st:

[Matt@BOS]

Just saw the show today. It was really fun to watch. So what are you guys doing with your new found celebrity status? :naughty: I know Steve used his fame to get a couple chevys into a Ford show yesterday :lmao:

while watching everything over it became pretty apparent that the Cobra was far more race car than street car, and out of everyone else's league, not to mention the driver advantage. Not sure what to do about that though. I also remember during sema that there were was a bit of grumbling at first about having cars like the R35 GTR, Bentley GT-Speed and the C63 AMG run. Ultimately I think having those cars out there on the track might have been one of the best things to happen for our little crowd, especially given the TV coverage. The incorporation of the late model uber-high tech cars at the event let people like Steilow, Rupp and the Pozzi's and the DSE crew, among others, prove the strength of their engineering and design concepts. While no one has questioned the concept behind pro-touring builds, that is the ability to make an older car live up to the all around capability of a late model sports car, I think many, including myself have at times questioned how well our cars live up to what appear to be some rather lofty goals. There aren't many, if any other events that are publicized which actually stack pro-touring cars up against their late model sports car counterparts. Before Optima, I'm not sure anyone figured a first gen Camaro, no matter how modified, would be able to turn in a superior lap time to a GTR, AMG car or track dedicated car, like the K&N Infiniti. So, despite the Cobra's victory, I have to think that this program is some of the best advertising that companies like DSE and Ridetech could hope to receive, and I hope to see a few more late-model cars mixing it up next year, maybe push the envelope a little farther, if you will.

I just hope next years event isn't marred by drama like this years, and doesn't become too competitive in successive years, because I'd love to have an opportunity to run our car in the competition (we can all dream right?), despite the fact that I'd only be capable of getting out of my own way.

Matt

[79-TA]

It had a dry sump 427 FE engine and Bruce said it was somthing like 900 hp.. cool stuff.

The problem with the Cobra was that it was in a different class in terms of weight.

The typical pro-touring car is a mudane street car turned into a handling car. Take Jackass or Penny for example. Those are ill handling car that through the use of aftermarket parts are made to handle.

The Cobra was build AS a race car.. and then made better from there. I should have won and was a bad ass mofo for sure.

Personally I didn't feel that it really was a street car.. could it be driven on the street? yea, but with open side pipes, no windshield, race gas and all that it didn't fit into the spirit of the event. Even the owner stated that it was taken off "street duty" back in 1970.

There was also the driver issue, but nobody protested it so it is what it is.

It was the best handling car there, no doubt

Pointing our facts isn't "whiny".. it's how the event is adjusted for next year. If a bunch of Cobras are going to show up then there's no point in our cars trying to beat them. It's just physics.

Uhh, Steve, when I talked to Bruce he said something about an all aluminum big block displacing over 550 ci! :yum: That was far from your ordinary FE 427 Cobra!

[Steve1968LS2]

Uhh, Steve, when I talked to Bruce he said something about an all aluminum big block displacing over 550 ci! :yum: That was far from your ordinary FE 427 Cobra!

That's just what I heard.. if it was a 550 ci aluminum dry sump engine then we were even more screwed.

The point is that cars like ours have zero chance against what's pretty much full on track cars.

Again, the Cobra was built as a race car and then taken even farther. Our cars were built as basic transportation and we're trying to make them handle.. we start off at a disadvantage that can't really be overcome, well not without turning our cars into race cars. Even then the Cobra has an inherent advantage, especially in weight.

It's all a moot point.. the Cobra was let in and it deservedly won, this conversation mainly goes towards what should be let in next year. Keep in mind that two key words in the event is "Street Car".

[Larry Callahan]

Larry, come on buddy...... If it's to loud, you're to old. Or something like that. :1st:

It's supposed to be a "streetcar" event and there is no way you could get away with anything as load as that on the street. I'm fine with all the noise in the world from a race car.

[Vegas69]

The problem is that car was easily streetable. It didn't sport a full rollcage. I'm sure it was on race gas but that would allow 100 miles on decent tank and a light foot. The weight is the biggest deal.

[tom_a]

I was amazed by the Z06. Was it able to keep up with the competitors no problem, or was it just certain spots on the track it would catch some footage. Doesn't seem like it would have the juice to run with the LS9 camaro or the cobra.

The camera car was a ZR1 not a Z06. The guy driving it was from Mother's I think. He could wheel that car pretty good. I only saw about 3 cars that made him sweat. Those were the top three winners.

[Steve1968LS2]

The problem is that car was easily streetable. It didn't sport a full rollcage. I'm sure it was on race gas but that would allow 100 miles on decent tank and a light foot. The weight is the biggest deal.

He wouldn't last 5 minutes trying to drive around my town.. too loud.

Add in that they took it OFF the street back in '70 (plus the driver deal)... like I said, bad ass car but in a whole other class..

I guess we could now argue that Big Red is a "street car".. lol

In any event it was a GREAT time and I can't wait for next year.. like I said in the show "great people and badass cars".. What's not to love?

[41565 chevelle]

The ZR1 was is owned and driven by the owner of Mother's, Jim Halloway. The guy can wheel for sure. I think he is leading/lead/won a SCCA class for Team Mazda and is building an absolutely unreal, propane powered "ProPain" Chevelle that I believe will be done shortly. It was at SEMA 2 years ago in the Mother's both and has gone back under the knife for an updated engine and re-engineered suspension. Watch for it on the PowerTour this year.

Think we need to film it from the air next year!!!

[Vegas69]

He wouldn't last 5 minutes trying to drive around my town.. too loud.

Add in that they took it OFF the street back in '70 (plus the driver deal)... like I said, bad ass car but in a whole other class..

I guess we could now argue that Big Red is a "street car".. lol

In any event it was a GREAT time and I can't wait for next year.. like I said in the show "great people and badass cars".. What's not to love?

I hear ya, I doubt it would be pulled off the road here. I still think the weight is the only argument. It had 500-750lbs on most competitors. Most of us have back seats, stereos, AC, and a ROOF LOL....

[79-TA]

Halloway races with Speedsource in NASA.

[gearbanger]

Pump gas and full exhaust should be manditory. Vehicles need to be street legal. Other than that, you are going to ruin the fun if you start trying to lock it down to some horsepower or weight deal. If it is required by law to have a windshield, then you should have a windshield. If not, heck with it.

I just don't want to see this turn into a deal like Nascar where when the Chevys win the Ford complain and get the rules changed and vice versa. I'm sure if the Cobra had a windshield and muflers, and even pump gas, it would have still won.

[wicked68]

Pump gas and full exhaust should be manditory. Vehicles need to be street legal. Other than that, you are going to ruin the fun if you start trying to lock it down to some horsepower or weight deal. If it is required by law to have a windshield, then you should have a windshield. If not, heck with it.

I just don't want to see this turn into a deal like Nascar where when the Chevys win the Ford complain and get the rules changed and vice versa. I'm sure if the Cobra had a windshield and muflers, and even pump gas, it would have still won.

Proper safety equipment is also a must. I saw very fast full out road race lap times being turned in by people with no firesuits or gloves on. We represent the sport and there are a lot of people who will look to us as the standard and as such we have a duty to make sure we are also portraying the latest safety as well. I dont think cars should be able to go out and turn in 1:50 lap times with a 3 point seat belt and no roll bar and only a helmet.

That is a regular street car and has no place on the track placing the driver at risk like that.

[JEFFTATE]

Maybe they should just limit the entries to cars that were originally four passenger ( or front and back seat ) sedans .
Like , no two seaters or roadsters.
This would rule out cobras and vettes..
It would be like a "Sedan" competition ( like the original Trans-Am series).
It's nice to have the late models , Bentleys , Nissans , Lexus , and cars with ABS , traction control , and AWD in there for comparison too.

[1offwizard]

Very fun to watch! Hopefully I can stay out and watch in person this year!

[xxxturbo6]

Maybe they should just limit the entries to cars that were originally four passenger ( or front and back seat ) sedans .
Like , no two seaters or roadsters.
This would rule out cobras and vettes..
It would be like a "Sedan" competition ( like the original Trans-Am series).
It's nice to have the late models , Bentleys , Nissans , Lexus , and cars with ABS , traction control , and AWD in there for comparison too. Jeff,

The problem with that is the 2 seaters are street cars too and should be allowed to race just because of that alone! I think it should be like this:

1) ALL cars "Must" have license, registration and insurance!
2) ALL cars "Must" be limited to the same compound tire!
3) Classes split into some type of catagory to keep things on an equal playing field.

A 700 lb difference is a HUGE advantage in my book! Easier to move and Easier to stop! You take that away and have the Cobra add weight, The outcome would of been 100% different!!

Now on the other hand i'm sure it was fun for DSE, Bad Penny and others to actually go against the Cobra to see how they compared and they done an awesome job too! I give props to Everyone who raced and beat on there cars. That is a neat thing to watch as a spectator and even more fun to actually do. All it needs now is some simple rules to even things out a bit and I think Everyone will be happy.

Scot W.

[chevyhector]

Hey guys, great show ! Gotta love this new dirver sport. I do have a question. Larry, maybe you can answer. Where can we view the premier party pics?

[jon72vega]

Great Coverage!
It was good to put some faces & names together.

[Scott Parkhurst]

Wow Great Show. My favorite part was the wagon skidding into the dirt during the 0-60-0 competion.

You're welcome?

[Scott Parkhurst]

I think the formation of 'classes' is due. "Sports" 2-seaters and "Ponycar" 4-seater 2-door coupes seem fair. Vettes vs. Cobras is a classic matchup, as are Camaros vs. Mustangs vs. E-body Mopars. Then a 'Sedan" class for the mid-size cars (GM A-bodies, Fairlanes, Mopar B-bodies) that were offered as 4-doors/wagons (as opposed to Ponycars).

This would put similar cars in competition with each other. It won't be hard to compare results, but no one with any Chevelle/Fairlane/Satellite will ever beat a Cobra/Vette at the same level of development. It's just a matter of how badly you get beat.

Even putting the big bodied sedans in the same class as the Ponycars is tough. But, not all of us want a Ponycar either. They're cool and all, but just not my preference.

(I'm also all for a "4-door station wagon" class, but I'm silly like that)

Overall- still a killer event and a great TV show! The P-T community was well represented on all fronts, from style to performance to sportsmanship. Congrats to all for a job well done.

[Ron S]

The cars were super cool, but next year I think they need to get a group of more attractive drivers (Mary & Stacy excluded of course).LOL. Seriously, I am amazed what a high quality show it was, really first class. Ron

[DYNODANNY]

I was abel to catch the last 15 minutes of the coverage, man these cars are bad ass. It rearlly modivates me to re-do my car. Was this event only for high dollar cars or cars with sponsers? Could any one be invited like a small time like me?

[Danny Thomas]

One thing is for sure..it is an awesome event. Just hate that I was working on the road course all day..you may have seen my big butt on several clips on TV..( course that is my better side..LOL) The idea of getting a whole spectrum of people at a facility like that is awesome. I do agree that there were several disadvantages, but those will be addressed as time goes on, if the event is to survive. Otherwise we are going to see more lightweight cars and professional drivers and that is not what this all about. Street machines that can do double duty--no trailer Queens...Remember trailers are for boats. We want to hear more..Stick you Bitch..thanks Mary, you started a trend. Better hurry and copyright that before we all get rich on it..LOL

[Steve1968LS2]

The cars were super cool, but next year I think they need to get a group of more attractive drivers (Mary & Stacy excluded of course).LOL. Ron

We will miss you driving at the event :(

[BA.]

Great show, finally able to put faces with names.


If they had a more in-depth DVD of that event, I'd buy it!

[BonzoHansen]

Dammit, my DVR did not record. they better reshow it!!!!!!!!!!

[buickfunnycar.com]

I'm sure we can get you a copy Scott,PM Dave P...I know he made one.

[shortrack]

Great Coverage!
It was good to put some faces & names together.

X2.....saw it last night......pretty awesome!

nothing like a V8!

[tazzz25906112]

The cars were super cool, but next year I think they need to get a group of more attractive drivers (Mary & Stacy excluded of course).LOL. Seriously, I am amazed what a high quality show it was, really first class. Ron

Hey Hey I resemble that comment ROFLMAO.... Ron you've got be there this coming year pal!!! No excuses buddy Ok....

[thedodgeboys]

I absolutely loved it! And will be saving it for many more replays.

However I wish they would have showed a little more of the racing.
Like Mary making a complete lap instead of just the highlights I loved the highlights just would have loved to have seen a complete lap by someone.
Would have also been cool to see a clock in the lower corner clicking off the times, Maybe a leader board posting the fast times leading up to the final total.

Nice to see all the faces and some classic quotes wish I could attend, maybe I will get lucky.
:)

[gearbanger]

That is a pretty good idea, to have classes like A-body, F-body, and 2-seater. That would be plenty. And I personally like the idea of having the new vettes, vipers, amgs and bentlys there. I think that is the whole idea of pro-touring is to directly compare the cars to new performance cars. Maybe those cars need to have there own class or something, but that definitely adds to the cool factor to be able to see that a 69 Camaro just ran with or better than a new Vette.

I hope I can come to one of these deals someday, but my car will never be able to perform with these, and I'll probably never make it out to Vegas. But maybe you guys can have one at Pigeon Forge someday and I can come and watch.

[Steve1968LS2]

Let's not make this overcomplicated..

Just insure that there are no cars with crazy advantages.. make sure they are real street cars and make sure there are no ringer drivers.

Simple.

[Charley Lillard]

My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.

[BonzoHansen]

So if Frank builds me a super car but I pay for it and I drive it, is that owner class or shop class?



Of course that is an extreme hypothetical example.

[mpozzi]

That's "Owner" class ... and not that extreme as the majority of the cars in this class would be those.

Couldn't agree more, Charley. And I like your reasoning behind it.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[wicked68]

how about we do a much larger feeder event and optima can invite the top X number of cars from this event.

Maybe hold one in texas so its nice and central for everyone.

take all the ideas from this thread and make it a 2 or 3 day deal.

[PT Sportwagon]

(I'm also all for a "4-door station wagon" class, but I'm silly like that)


Scott, I would vote for a wagon class. Wagons rule

What I am wondering does the vehicle have to be exhibited at SEMA? or even in the parking lot. I don't think my wagon would be a SEMA car but it I am there for the PT dinner would I have a chance?

Tim

[Scott Parkhurst]

It's an invitational- you have to be invited.

[wicked68]

It's an invitational- you have to be invited.
exactly why a larger open event would be a lot of fun and really cool with nightly organized social activities

I bet we could get some good sponsors for it - heck I would be a sponsor.

[Steve1968LS2]

My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.

I like that..

After all, what car is the "Ultimate Street Car"? The better car with the lesser driver or the lesser car with the better driver?

If Boris Said showed up and won would it be because he had the best car or because he's just a far better driver?

The two classes is a good idea, it would also give the "average joes" a shot.

Look at the tallent pool (except me) of the top 5 cars and you see a pattern. :)

[BLT2DRIVE]

how about we do a much larger feeder event and optima can invite the top X number of cars from this event.

Maybe hold one in texas so its nice and central for everyone.

take all the ideas from this thread and make it a 2 or 3 day deal.
Didn't they mention at the Premier about a run-off at Road America this spring to qualify some cars/people?

[79-TA]

Proper safety equipment is also a must. I saw very fast full out road race lap times being turned in by people with no firesuits or gloves on. We represent the sport and there are a lot of people who will look to us as the standard and as such we have a duty to make sure we are also portraying the latest safety as well. I dont think cars should be able to go out and turn in 1:50 lap times with a 3 point seat belt and no roll bar and only a helmet.

That is a regular street car and has no place on the track placing the driver at risk like that.

They pretty much enforced the level of safety you'd find at an ordinary track day. Cars were not going wheel to wheel nor was there any passing allowed. Still, I'm sure the safety companies wouldn't mind having their products put up on display.

[Finch]

My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.


You are spot on Charlie, Now go bend Jimi and Cam's ear.

[David Pozzi]

Charley,
Can you sell me Jackass for $1.00 just for 1 day??? PLEASE??? :secret:
I promise Mary won't cuss in it.

[rossmacd]

Charley,
Can you sell me Jackass for $1.00 just for 1 day??? PLEASE??? :secret:
I promise Mary won't cuss in it.


Pffft, that's like a cake with no frosting.

[454bug]

My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.

EXACTLY what I was alluding to at the very beginning of this thread...

GREAT SUGGESTED LAYOUT CHARLIE!! :1st:

[454bug]

how about we do a much larger feeder event and optima can invite the top X number of cars from this event.

Maybe hold one in texas so its nice and central for everyone.

take all the ideas from this thread and make it a 2 or 3 day deal.

Other than the invitations made by the organizers didn't I read somewhere that anyone that won a Goodguy's Autocross was automatically invited??

I thought that's how Mary Pozzi and Brian Finch got in... maybe I'm wrong...

Isn't that already a "feeder" program??

After all, there are only 40-50 spots to fill... including the exhibition and Pro Shop cars...

[MCMLXIX]

I finally got to watch it Sunday night... I volunteered that day and while I didn't get any camera time you hear me telling Troy Ladd about the G-tech meter for the 0-60-0... Does that count as my 15 seconds of fame?
The show was really good. I agree they could have more footage of the cars including engine and interior shots... maybe they'll step up with more cameras to catch more track footage next year...With multiple events happening simultaneously its hard to get film on each car running each event....

Did anyone notice that all the commercials used footage from the event..

[wiedemab]

I finally got to watch it Sunday night... I volunteered that day and while I didn't get any camera time you hear me telling Troy Ladd about the G-tech meter for the 0-60-0... Does that count as my 15 seconds of fame?


I paused it on the DVR and for a split second you can see a thin side profile of your face - mostly just sunglasses. I think you still have some of your 15 seconds left though.

[gearbanger]

So what was the driver issue with the Cobra? I don't see how it could be much different than having Mary Pozzi drive Bad Penny to the win last year? The owner of the car should drive the car. But what if you are not capable of driving it, like if you are too old, too fat, handicapped in some way, should that exclude a good car from being able to compete? And who is to say whether a driver is professional or not. Mary Pozzi has never won any money driving? Hard to police all this stuff. Might be getting ready to ruin a pretty cool event with all these rules.

[Charley Lillard]

Charley,
Can you sell me Jackass for $1.00 just for 1 day??? PLEASE??? :secret:
I promise Mary won't cuss in it.
She already cussed in it at Buttonwillow......

[Steve1968LS2]

So what was the driver issue with the Cobra? I don't see how it could be much different than having Mary Pozzi drive Bad Penny to the win last year? The owner of the car should drive the car. But what if you are not capable of driving it, like if you are too old, too fat, handicapped in some way, should that exclude a good car from being able to compete? And who is to say whether a driver is professional or not. Mary Pozzi has never won any money driving? Hard to police all this stuff. Might be getting ready to ruin a pretty cool event with all these rules.

Last year there were no real driver rules.. this year there was. :shrug:

Jim didn't do any work on that car.. and he wasn't in any way an owner so it was pretty much way outside the letter and the spirit of the rule. But nobody complained so it is what it is. Mary is worth a couple of seconds in my car on the autox, but I drove since that was the rules. I really don't care what the rules are, but I do feel we should ALL have to follow them, or at least try to.

What's funny is that if you read the coverage so far, and especially watch the TV show you wouldn't even know Jim was there or even existed.

I'm pretty sure Bruce can drive.. I'm handicapped by a lack of road course skills, so does that mean I can ask Boris to drive my ride? lol

[Steve1968LS2]

Didn't they mention at the Premier about a run-off at Road America this spring to qualify some cars/people?

There are actually quite a few "qualifier" events this summer. But, it's still an invitational and if your car doesn't fit the event then winning a qualifier doesn't guarantee you a spot (but it's likely you'll get in)

That's my understanding.

[Vegas69]

I remember us talking about Charleys idea after last years Optima Challenge through PM's Steve. It's only fair to the owner/driver. Then if the owner wants to enter it in the pro class he can do that too. Personally I want to fight it out with the owners of the cars, not race car drivers. This is supposed to be for fun, otherwise it will get beyond competitive. It's already expensive enough. IMO

[buickfunnycar.com]

My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.

I hear you Charlie...

[Chucks73]

Don't know if you guys have seen this.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ultimate-Street-Car_731221.htm

[buickfunnycar.com]

Don't know if you guys have seen this.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ultimate-Street-Car_731221.htm

Cool find Chuck...:1st:

[JEFFTATE]

Cool video , thanks for posting ..
It's nice to see video of the premiere too.

John Schneider , A jumping contest ! ???
That would be hilarious ( LOL )

[wicked68]

Other than the invitations made by the organizers didn't I read somewhere that anyone that won a Goodguy's Autocross was automatically invited??

I thought that's how Mary Pozzi and Brian Finch got in... maybe I'm wrong...

Isn't that already a "feeder" program??

After all, there are only 40-50 spots to fill... including the exhibition and Pro Shop cars...


I guess if you only want to take people that won an autocross only.

that also does not take into account that there are many people that might want an event with more invites that is more of an all around race event like this one with road course and drag racing times as well.

Plus once you are an alumni if you didnt win you wont be going back.....so that kind of event would allow others to also improve their cars and skills and keep on having fun at a national amature level event.

[wicked68]

They pretty much enforced the level of safety you'd find at an ordinary track day. Cars were not going wheel to wheel nor was there any passing allowed. Still, I'm sure the safety companies wouldn't mind having their products put up on display.

good track days wont let you run 1.49 lap times in short sleeves or with no roll bar.

[David Pozzi]

Other than the invitations made by the organizers didn't I read somewhere that anyone that won a Goodguy's Autocross was automatically invited??

I thought that's how Mary Pozzi and Brian Finch got in... maybe I'm wrong...

Isn't that already a "feeder" program??

After all, there are only 40-50 spots to fill... including the exhibition and Pro Shop cars...

Mary won 2 Goodguys Autocrosses, Del Mar, and Pleasanton, which got her in to the Optima Challenge. She also finished 2nd at Costa Mesa Goodguys to a Z06 Corvette, that same Corvette driver came to Pleasanton to try and win again but I think finished 2nd.
David

[jknight16]

A Z06 you say? And here I thought Goodguys events were only for old cars (76 and older or something like that). Wonder what that's about.

[Charley Lillard]

good track days wont let you run 1.49 lap times in short sleeves or with no roll bar.
I go to open track days and most of the cars have no roll bars. They do require long sleeve shirts, long pants, closed toe shoes. That is the most common attire. This is to encourage paople to bring their street car and try running on the track without spending big bucks on race apparel. If they get serious then they most likely will buy more stuff. I can't see forcing someone to buy a suit, gloves, shoes etc to do one track event. And those events might have 30 cars obn the track at the same time while the Optima has solo cars.

[Chucks73]

A Z06 you say? And here I thought Goodguys events were only for old cars (76 and older or something like that). Wonder what that's about.


Thought the same thing. But if it is a "Goodguys Get together" it's open to all years. Only the National events have year limits.

http://www.good-guys.com/events/eventsList.aspx?year=2010

[David Pozzi]

Costa Mesa and Pleasanton were open to all years, Del Mar was not.
David

[79-TA]

A Z06 you say? And here I thought Goodguys events were only for old cars (76 and older or something like that). Wonder what that's about.

Different GG events have different restrictions. Some are pre-55 or something while ones like Del Mar are pre-'73 (technically mary's car might not qualify, but given that it's not different than a '72 Camaro it shouldn't matter.) The Costa Mesa was open to any American-powered vehicle which explains said C5 Z06.




good track days wont let you run 1.49 lap times in short sleeves or with no roll bar.

What track days might those be?

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

[Steve1968LS2]

A Z06 you say? And here I thought Goodguys events were only for old cars (76 and older or something like that). Wonder what that's about.

Some Goodguys events allow modern muscle cars

[gearbanger]

I don't like the events that are supposedly for classic cars that expect the classic car to have roll bars and harnesses. That is anti-productive. People are not going to take their classic out there and drive it so hard they are going to wreck it. It isn't a race really, it is just you out there by yourself. Yes you are running against the clock, but its not like you are going to take someone out or something.

[BonzoHansen]

That's "Owner" class ... and not that extreme as the majority of the cars in this class would be those.The extreme part is me paying for it.


Charley,
Can you sell me Jackass for $1.00 just for 1 day??? PLEASE??? :secret:
I promise Mary won't cuss in it.Don't make promises you can't keep.



Damn, I can't find this on Speed's site anywhere to see if they are replaying it.

[wicked68]

Different GG events have different restrictions. Some are pre-55 or something while ones like Del Mar are pre-'73 (technically mary's car might not qualify, but given that it's not different than a '72 Camaro it shouldn't matter.) The Costa Mesa was open to any American-powered vehicle which explains said C5 Z06.





What track days might those be?

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

If you read the literature with a strict constructionist view point you will come to the assumption that the only cars out there that would not have been allowed to run were the open top cars that lacked a roll bar alltogether or did not have the properly constructed bar. I dont think open track days were meant for taking a car to the limit at 1:49 track times without proper safety equipment. Those times mean you are running 90 mph on average and pushing 130-140 on the straights. I think most would agree that the "race" on the open course was a single car race and not an open track day.

Anyone rolling a car and enduring a fire at 130 mph would have a low chance of survival with no roll cage / head restraint or fire suit. I guess on the other side of it is who are we to stop someone from doing it?

Sorry for bringing safety up. I was not meaning to keep anyone from getting out there with little to no safety gear and getting hurt. I guess since they are alone on the track its not as bad. I am sure that footage would not be broadcast anyway.

note - lots of tongue in cheek on this post.

one of the good things in the drag racing community is that safety requirements are indexed to speed and car capability so you can go out and run slower but if you run at a higher more dangerous speed you will need the proper safety gear. Maybe nasa will index as well.

[Larry Callahan]

I checked last night. So far they don't list it as airing again.

[Steve1968LS2]

I checked last night. So far they don't list it as airing again.

Maybe they can get it on HULU?

Will there be a DVD???

[lower90xcab]

Maybe they can get it on HULU?

Will there be a DVD???

i hope there is a dvd...i would like to see more of the action....

[bret]

Last year there were no real driver rules.. this year there was. :shrug:

Jim didn't do any work on that car.. and he wasn't in any way an owner so it was pretty much way outside the letter and the spirit of the rule. But nobody complained so it is what it is. Mary is worth a couple of seconds in my car on the autox, but I drove since that was the rules. I really don't care what the rules are, but I do feel we should ALL have to follow them, or at least try to.

What's funny is that if you read the coverage so far, and especially watch the TV show you wouldn't even know Jim was there or even existed.

I'm pretty sure Bruce can drive.. I'm handicapped by a lack of road course skills, so does that mean I can ask Boris to drive my ride? lol

Jim McKamey and Bruce Cambren have worked together on quite a few cars, including this Cobra. This scenario was repeated quite often at this event...Jackass...DSE 69 Camaro...Penny...RideTech 66 Chevelle, etc.

If there was an unfair advantage, it was that these two guys are older, smarter, and faster than the rest of us. It may be that the only way to regulate this is to develop an age/speed/IQ factoring index.

There is one sure fire way to win next year. Build a faster car and become a better driver. That's my secret game plan. In the meantime I will continue to admire and learn from the Cobra guys [and the other 9 cars that were faster than me!]

[79-TA]

If you read the literature with a strict constructionist view point you will come to the assumption that the only cars out there that would not have been allowed to run were the open top cars that lacked a roll bar alltogether or did not have the properly constructed bar. I dont think open track days were meant for taking a car to the limit at 1:49 track times without proper safety equipment. Those times mean you are running 90 mph on average and pushing 130-140 on the straights. I think most would agree that the "race" on the open course was a single car race and not an open track day.

Anyone rolling a car and enduring a fire at 130 mph would have a low chance of survival with no roll cage / head restraint or fire suit. I guess on the other side of it is who are we to stop someone from doing it?

Sorry for bringing safety up. I was not meaning to keep anyone from getting out there with little to no safety gear and getting hurt. I guess since they are alone on the track its not as bad. I am sure that footage would not be broadcast anyway.

note - lots of tongue in cheek on this post.

one of the good things in the drag racing community is that safety requirements are indexed to speed and car capability so you can go out and run slower but if you run at a higher more dangerous speed you will need the proper safety gear. Maybe nasa will index as well.


Excuse me for asking, but have you ever even done a track weekend with the SCCA or NASA?

The idea of cars not being taken to the limit (especially in comparison to the OUSCI) is silly.

If anything, a normal track weekend with many cars on track at once (with varying passing regulations depending on the run group) is far more dangerous. With the exception of the (what was supposed to be) slow warmup session, OUSCI (as you already know) was run one car at a time (+ ZR1 chase car.) And that average lap speed is not 90 mph . . . a bit over 70 mph for the quickest cars.

NASA and the SCCA are unlike the OUSCI largely because they don't just turn you loose on a track that you don't even know. One must work his/her way up through the run groups and prove that they have good enough judgement to be trusted around other people's cars while one track. That is a profound difference. There are plenty of generally stock vehicles being run in the HPDE3 and 4 groups. One should also note that there are also a few full-on race machines in those groups as well.

Most people have the good sense to upgrade safety items as they go, but the OUSCI is not the sort of event that should require a firesuit or pair of gloves. I'm by no means anti-safety, but you can cut the alarmist talk.

The only car that concerned me was the Art Morrison '62 Corvette and you can probably guess why by looking at it.

[Finch]

There is one sure fire way to win next year. Build a faster car and become a better driver. That's my secret game plan. In the meantime I will continue to admire and learn from the Cobra guys [and the other 9 cars that were faster than me!]


This is my plan as well.

I consider it an honor to be on the same track as most of these cars and drivers and to be able to make them take notice is icing on the cake.

If you are never challenged you will never know your limits.

[Charley Lillard]

Whoa Whoa Whoa.. Just to be clear.I was originally asked to bring Jackass and said I would if Mark and me both could compete just like we did at Motor States Challenge. I was told yes. The rules state you have to be either the builder or the owner. Stielow built Jackass for me. I shipped him a plain Camaro that I had gutted to a rolling shell. At the last minute before Optima I kept wanting two run #'s like we had at Motorstates but Jimi was afraid people would get mad if both of us competed. Kinda sucked but I said OK. His solution was for one of us to run competition and the other to run exhibition. I was letting Mark run my car simply because his car was not finished. I let him run the competition because that is what he was told he could run from the start. If I had been allowed to also run competition I think I would have had the 5th fastest lap times. If I get invited again I will run all the segments myself. In the Optima video it is Stielow that is competing in Jackass. In the Optima video it is Bruce Cambern and the actual driver is never mentioned. Did Jim build Bruces car ? Your comment about Jim and Bruce working on quite a few cars is the first I have ever heard of Jim being the builder. I have no problem that the cobra won because if he wasn't the builder it should have been addressed before the event. Not fair to take it away after.

[Danny Thomas]

As I said earlier, just need to tweek rules a little so playing field is even or add different classes. This is suppose to be a fun and a challenging event. Its not like a NASCAR race where the winner gets mega money even though Bret gave away a full suspension system. Do you have any extras laying around. Hell I would be happy with just a new billet camaro gas cap LOL. Inconclusion...Can't we all just get along and play fair

[Steve1968LS2]

Whoa Whoa Whoa.. Just to be clear.I was originally asked to bring Jackass and said I would if Mark and me both could compete just like we did at Motor States Challenge. I was told yes. The rules state you have to be either the builder or the owner. Stielow built Jackass for me. I shipped him a plain Camaro that I had gutted to a rolling shell. At the last minute before Optima I kept wanting two run #'s like we had at Motorstates but Jimi was afraid people would get mad if both of us competed. Kinda sucked but I said OK. His solution was for one of us to run competition and the other to run exhibition. I was letting Mark run my car simply because his car was not finished. I let him run the competition because that is what he was told he could run from the start. If I had been allowed to also run competition I think I would have had the 5th fastest lap times. If I get invited again I will run all the segments myself. In the Optima video it is Stielow that is competing in Jackass. In the Optima video it is Bruce Cambern and the actual driver is never mentioned. Did Jim build Bruces car ? Your comment about Jim and Bruce working on quite a few cars is the first I have ever heard of Jim being the builder. I have no problem that the cobra won because if he wasn't the builder it should have been addressed before the event. Not fair to take it away after.

I've heard from more than a few sources that Jim didn't do much on that Cobra. And even if they did work on "several car" then so what? That has nothing to do with Jim being a builder on the Cobra. My understanding is they are friends and Bruce invited him to drive the car. The part that's odd is that you wouldn't even know the guy existed while Dave was made the driver of my car in the autocross.

And there was NOTHING wrong with you letting Stielow drive the car, he was a builder on it and it was the best way to show off the capabilities of the car, sorta like what I did with David. It's not like you're afraid to drive a car. It more like you know the limits of your skill like I do and we both want our cars to do as well as possible within the rules of the event.

We followed those rules, and if anyone doesn't like then they can cry me a river. :)

And for God's sake, can we quit going on about the driver of the Cobra (myself included).. it's over and nobody protested it at the event. The Cobra won.. simple, done, over.

Hey, Charley and I agree on this.. now if could just convince him to love the orange cones.. lol

[tazzz25906112]

You know there are few good things that came from this guys..... After a fare bit gum flapping we're all starting to see something here,,,,,, It's just absolutely incredible,, no wait, it's fantastic we have the extremely good fortune of an event like this (and others like it) to have """"FUN IN"""

Guys, I'm very pleased to see the common thread here,,,, we love it, we're passionate about it,,,, and we have it. Dam Lucky in my eyes (and I think most of us will agree too)

Is it 100% = never!!!
Is it really good = you bet!!!
Guess we'll save Perfect for a Master Card commercial

ROFLMAO

[shortrack]

It had a dry sump 427 FE engine and Bruce said it was somthing like 900 hp.. cool stuff.

The problem with the Cobra was that it was in a different class in terms of weight.

The typical pro-touring car is a mundane street car turned into a handling car. Take Jackass or Penny for example. Those are ill handling car that through the use of aftermarket parts are made to handle.

The Cobra was build AS a race car.. and then made better from there. It should have won and was a bad ass mofo for sure.

Personally I didn't feel that it really was a street car.. could it be driven on the street? yea, but with open side pipes, no windshield, race gas and all that it didn't fit into the spirit of the event. Even the owner stated that it was taken off "street duty" back in 1970.

There was also the driver issue, but nobody protested it so it is what it is.

It was the best handling car there, no doubt

Pointing our facts isn't "whiny".. it's how the event is adjusted for next year. If a bunch of Cobras are going to show up then there's no point in our cars trying to beat them. It's just physics.

FWIW IMO all cars should have current tags, insurance, registation and run pump gas, its for "street cars" right?

[Steve1968LS2]

FWIW IMO all cars should have current tags, insurance, registation and run pump gas, its for "street cars" right?

Mufflers? lol

I guess the point is that no rules will be 100% effective.. so lets just go have fun and punish our cars like the rented mules they are.. :D

[gearbanger]

Amen.

[hemicuda]

does any one in this sport other than me run a late model f-body.I want to run with the rest of you but I am using a 1999 camaro ss.Does ant body in pro tourung run a car like this or am I special?Any helpwould be great.I want to go to your events and compete but I am afraid that I will be bounced out for being too new.Any help:doh:

[Steve1968LS2]

does any one in this sport other than me run a late model f-body.I want to run with the rest of you but I am using a 1999 camaro ss.Does ant body in pro tourung run a car like this or am I special?Any helpwould be great.I want to go to your events and compete but I am afraid that I will be bounced out for being too new.Any help:doh:

Don't sweat it.. 4th gens rule!

Some goodguy events let you in and you can run you car in just about any SCCA/UFO or other autocross event.

As for optima events I would imagine it's possible to get in since other "new" cars were there like Vettes, G35, GTR and such were there.

Our magazine just started a 4th gen 2001 Z28 build. :)

[mpozzi]

Definitely agree with Steve and our United Five-Ten group has several late-model F-bodies that autocross on a regular basis. These cars are somewhat suspension challenged in stock form but there's lots of cool handling bits that can change their evil ways.

I have an '02 SS that I sometimes take out and run when I'm desperate for a pylon fix and nothing else is running. Handles like a sloth but it teaches me patience ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[wicked68]

And that average lap speed is not 90 mph . . . a bit over 70 mph for the quickest cars.



Most people have the good sense to upgrade safety items as they go, but the OUSCI is not the sort of event that should require a firesuit or pair of gloves. I'm by no means anti-safety, but you can cut the alarmist talk.

The only car that concerned me was the Art Morrison '62 Corvette and you can probably guess why by looking at it.

yes that corvette would not have been allowed to run at most places due to a lack of roll bar.

I will talk safety if I feel like it. You can cut telling me to cut alarmist talk - who made you the king of censorship?

I am not going to argue with you average lap times - the back straight where a pretty decent wreck occured did see some very high speeds. I hit 130 back there and I know some others were faster than that, so its not the average speed that gets you - its the top speed when you wreck. Luckily the k/n car that wiped out did not have any injuries. I think they had a pretty solid safety set up but I dont remember for sure. I try to err on the side of over safe.

no I have not done track weekends although I have been through skip barber racing school and regularly drag race as well.

I really don't want to get into an ongoing argument here with you - but your comment above did not come across well. I am not going to reply back to it any more - I am sure you are very nice person if I met you in person and you seem very knowledgeable. Thanks for the links and the feedback.

[David Pozzi]

I ran without driver's suit and should not have. I wore it last year and brought it along this year, but just got lazy, - not a good excuse. If something happens out there it's going to be at least a minute or two before someone with a fire extinguisher get's to you. It only takes a few seconds to get badly burned. It was only 3 laps that were timed with one out lap and one cool down lap. Not much driving to need a fire suit, but if fire happens, it could help. I think the SCCA spec fire suit protects you for like 5 or 10 seconds!!! I attended a safety talk relating to industrial electrical work. A nurse from a burn ward gave a talk and showed some photos. I'll spare you the details. You don't EVER want to get badly burned!
David

[bret]

David...I think fire is what scares me the most about the higher speed events vs. an autocross. Yes, you could get seriously hurt from the blunt force of a crash, but you can certainly die in a fire. I've never had one [never been bit by a snake either] but it is something that I intend to look at preventing in the cars that we run on the bigger tracks.

Wicked68...I also agree that we need to look at some rollbar/rollcage requirements at these speeds. I think we can all offer some positive influence on this area for this year. I dont want to abuse the good luck Gods that have smiled on us so far!

Albert...I agree totally with you about the event. IT was one of the better days of 2009! It is very much human nature to focus on the negative, no matter how small that portion may be. As two legged mammals, we just cant help it. Ass kicked again or not, I cant wait to go this year!

[tazzz25906112]

^5 Bret I'll be the guy following you around the track pal ,,, well maybe this year I might just get around it more than once LOL... Hey if you can't poke fun at yourself and laugh life is getting to serious right,,, that said I'mn coming for ya this year bud LOL...

[Yoda4561]

I think once you start getting into rollcages and the like, you get away from the whole concept of "ultimate street car". Maybe a better idea to set up chicanes with cones or something to limit top end speed?

[gearbanger]

I agree with that. Screw roll bars, and 5 point harnesses, fire suits and all that. That is not a street car event.

[tellyv]

Most of these cars built on this forum and others have way too much power, you being smooth is better that having gobs of horsepower and I agree that many people here are novice drivers and it sure would be a good thing to promote more safety, if you can afford the car you should be able to afford a drivers suit and a cage! I am an ex circle track driver and went to the motorstate deal and pushed my cuda way past the cars ability and just got lucky I could control it! I know theres people like me that have bigger balls than brains so I think alittle more safety is'nt a bad thing.

[Yoda4561]

Safety is important certainly, but this is supposed to be a street car event. Cages and 5 point harnesses are for purpose built track cars. There's gotta be a better way of setting up the event to keep things within the safe limits of shoulder belts and non caged chassis. That, or just accept that it's inherently dangerous, much like any motorsport, with its own dangers and pitfalls.

[Vegas69]

There is nothing stopping us from wearing a fire suit. I bought one before my first time out on the road course. It was mandated by the sanctioning body. It was only 100 degrees at spring mountain that day.:1st: Safer, means less speed.

[wicked68]

Safety is important certainly, but this is supposed to be a street car event. Cages and 5 point harnesses are for purpose built track cars. There's gotta be a better way of setting up the event to keep things within the safe limits of shoulder belts and non caged chassis. That, or just accept that it's inherently dangerous, much like any motorsport, with its own dangers and pitfalls.

Then you need to drop the road race portion or have a pace car that you follow or a speed limit on the track that will not allow someone over 100 mph on the back straight.

It would be a real black eye on our sport to allow someone that is an amature to run balls out with safety gear and have something catastrophic happen that kills someone. We would look like a bunch of idiots. Can you imagine if the guy in the corvette roadster with no roll bar rolled it after a blow out on the back straight? There would be a RIP thread on this board and real firestorm surrounding optima and the event organizers. I dont think that is what they want.

Scope it to the 0-60- and the autocross and then you can pull it off with no safety requirements at all.

[wicked68]

Most of these cars built on this forum and others have way too much power, you being smooth is better that having gobs of horsepower and I agree that many people here are novice drivers and it sure would be a good thing to promote more safety, if you can afford the car you should be able to afford a drivers suit and a cage! I am an ex circle track driver and went to the motorstate deal and pushed my cuda way past the cars ability and just got lucky I could control it! I know theres people like me that have bigger balls than brains so I think alittle more safety is'nt a bad thing.

agreed - great point.

[Yoda4561]

Can you imagine if the guy in the corvette roadster with no roll bar rolled it after a blow out on the back straight? There would be a RIP thread on this board and real firestorm surrounding optima and the event organizers. I dont think that is what they want.

Scope it to the 0-60- and the autocross and then you can pull it off with no safety requirements at all.


Certainly something for the organizers to consider next time they start picking cars for the event. A speed limit on the back straight, or maybe make that portion of the course a mid-high speed slalom would work as well. I just don't want to see this become a "vaguely street legal because it has DOT tires and turn signals" tube chassis + fire supression systems mandatory invitational, because then you may as well not bother with it. Helmets and firesuits I'm cool with.

[Finch]

The way this is all going everyone will need to bring their own attorney to the track. It is not always somebody else’s responsibility to keep me safe.


Now I just need to find an attorney that can drive and helps me work on the car and I wont even have to show up.

[wicked68]

Certainly something for the organizers to consider next time they start picking cars for the event. A speed limit on the back straight, or maybe make that portion of the course a mid-high speed slalom would work as well. I just don't want to see this become a "vaguely street legal because it has DOT tires and turn signals" tube chassis + fire supression systems mandatory invitational, because then you may as well not bother with it. Helmets and firesuits I'm cool with.

agreed


The way this is all going everyone will need to bring their own attorney to the track. It is not always somebody else’s responsibility to keep me safe.


Now I just need to find an attorney that can drive and helps me work on the car and I wont even have to show up.

its not really that - quite frankly I dont think anything legal is involved here - no one is going to sue anyone if something happens to them - its just a matter of being responsible to those that are less experienced - there is a level of pressure for the lesser cars and less experienced drivers to push themselves and their equipment and this is where you get into possible issues. That is where its a good thing for the more experienced people to scope it in so you don't get in trouble while you are learning. the chances of something happening are pretty low if you ask me - but all it takes is once and its regretful - unless you have covered your bases and then you dont feel bad about it as if you encouraged people into it without regard to proper procedure.
Like Brett - I have seen people die in real life - I used to go on volunteer fire fighter calls with my room mate and have seen deadly car accidents (dui) where the guy died right there as he was being worked on. He wasnt wearing his seatbelt in a head on - on the freeway. it was pretty gory. I also used to do volunteer diving for the aqaurium here in atlanta and we had to go through all the rescue and EFR and life saving courses so I am probably a bit more in tune than many.

I am sure the organizers will make sure its as safe as it can be. There is no way to make it 100% but doing the best to make sure its solid is a good thing and setting a good example is also a good thing especially when its televised - we need to set a good example.

[Steve1968LS2]

The way this is all going everyone will need to bring their own attorney to the track. It is not always somebody else’s responsibility to keep me safe.


Now I just need to find an attorney that can drive and helps me work on the car and I wont even have to show up.

That's why Europe has things like the N-Ring.. because they understand the term "personal responsibility"

[wicked68]

That's why Europe has things like the N-Ring.. because they understand the term "personal responsibility"

well europe is definately not about personal responsibility with their socialism that is so widespread - especially in germany.

but I do agree with you.

Another thing that would help is a checklist to interested participants with recommended safety equipment and potential consequences to the driver if its not implemented. Then someone can read it and if they choose to drive naked in an open top vehicle with nothing else and they signed the waiver with full details of what could happen - then of course no one is going to feel like they were led astray.

at that points its do whatever you like - I am all for that as long as full information has been presented and signed off on.

"roll bars - this is the recommended minimum set up......if you dont have this and you are in a rollover - which can happen at high speeds you will have a high probability of dying or not walking again"

fire suit - you will likely die or be turned into the stay puft marshmallow man after he is lit on fire by the ghostbusters if your car catches on fire which can and does happen from time to time.

this is my libertarian side coming out. As long as everyone has been informed way in advance so they have enough time and they know the risks and requirements as a standing course of business then go for it.

[Vegas69]

This thread went in the toilet. While I agree with some of the ideas, I'm sure as this hobby grows some of these things will be implemented. The first thing you do is sign a waiver before you pull into the race track. I for one don't believe in the government or a sactioning body protecting me from myself. I'd like to think I'm smart enough to figure out what's in my best interest.

[Finch]

well europe is definately not about personal responsibility with their socialism that is so widespread - especially in germany.

but I do agree with you.

Another thing that would help is a checklist to interested participants with recommended safety equipment and potential consequences to the driver if its not implemented. Then someone can read it and if they choose to drive naked in an open top vehicle with nothing else and they signed the waiver with full details of what could happen - then of course no one is going to feel like they were led astray.

at that points its do whatever you like - I am all for that as long as full information has been presented and signed off on.

"roll bars - this is the recommended minimum set up......if you dont have this and you are in a rollover - which can happen at high speeds you will have a high probability of dying or not walking again"

fire suit - you will likely die or be turned into the stay puft marshmallow man after he is lit on fire by the ghostbusters if your car catches on fire which can and does happen from time to time.

this is my libertarian side coming out. As long as everyone has been informed way in advance so they have enough time and they know the risks and requirements as a standing course of business then go for it.

I am all in favor of the personal responsibility and enter at your own risk policy. That is way it should be and if you’re scared stay home and take up basket weaving.

All this talk of limiting speeds, eliminating certain aspects of the event etc will ruin it. You will end with people who will never participate in these types of events making the rules in the name of Safety since it is a trump card.

[JEFFTATE]

NO RULES !!
Except courtsey to other participants ( and a street car.)
Remember , the Optima folks "invite" the participants.
So , no dingleberries will be invited..
Only real participants.
This is no poser event.
No crybabies or fingerpointers are allowed or invited.
No potential lawsuit weinies will be invited either..

[shortrack]

This thread went in the toilet. While I agree with some of the ideas, I'm sure as this hobby grows some of these things will be implemented. The first thing you do is sign a waiver before you pull into the race track. I for one don't believe in the government or a sactioning body protecting me from myself. I'd like to think I'm smart enough to figure out what's in my best interest.

There's nothing wrong with kicking ideas around in a civilised manner....

As far as the safety goes these cars are not Chevettes with automatics....IMO building a car as fast as these and intending to drive it at its limit on an open track with no regard to safety other than what came stock in a 69 Camaro is not particularly......smart. I used to race Superbikes on a National level up here and personally know(knew) two guys who are no longer with us.....trust me it is not a place you want to go.....a chicane on the straight or at least a roll bar is a good idea

[Finch]

NO RULES !!
Except courtsey to other participants ( and a street car.)
Remember , the Optima folks "invite" the participants.
So , no dingleberries will be invited..
Only real participants.
This is no poser event.
No crybabies or fingerpointers are allowed or invited.
No potential lawsuit weinies will be invited either..


I second the no dingleberry rule

[Steve1968LS2]

NO RULES !!
Except courtsey to other participants ( and a street car.)
Remember , the Optima folks "invite" the participants.
So , no dingleberries will be invited..
Only real participants.
This is no poser event.
No crybabies or fingerpointers are allowed or invited.
No potential lawsuit weinies will be invited either..

I third this rule..

[Steve1968LS2]

well europe is definately not about personal responsibility with their socialism that is so widespread - especially in germany.

but I do agree with you.



I was talking about their lawsuit laws.. you can crash when driving on a racetrack and then sue the track because you were overdriving.

You can here..

:)

[Doug Cooper]

before 500cid pro stock NHRA used a weight break formula to even the field...

[YancyJohns]

I agree, I think every event needs an E.R. Doctor present and we pay her very very well...................hehe
All kidding Aside, I'm w/ Albert, it was a Great event, I was pleased to have 2 cars in the challenge, even if I didn't drive either. To me and others, it's all about having a great time with my friends and moving our hobbie forward. Let's not take two steps back to move one step forward. Thanks to Jimi, Optima and other event sponsors for a Fantastic Event.

[wicked68]

I was talking about their lawsuit laws.. you can crash when driving on a racetrack and then sue the track because you were overdriving.

You can here..

:)
oh got it. yeah they have loser pays laws also - which would cut a lot of crap lawsuits out as well.

here you can sue regardless and its very tough to get attorneys fees. there are attorneys that engage in legal fee settlement threats just to get a quick 50K to make it go away when there was really no basis to begin with. Its a total crock.

[Larry Callahan]

I was talking about their lawsuit laws.. you can crash when driving on a racetrack and then sue the track because you were overdriving.

You can here..

:)

Think I can get my car re-painted? LOL!!!! Just kidding, just kidding.

[mpozzi]

That's it, Larry ... I'm suing you for that OPEC Exxon Valdez oil slick you generously slathered my windshield with which greatly affected my driving for the remainder of the day. I've suffered emotional distress, mental trauma, pain and of course, the suffering that goes along with all of this. We need a "pain and suffering" smilie.

My attorney will be in touch ... :look: ... LOL.

:moon:,
Mary Pozzi

[barraza]

no one is going to sue anyone if something happens to them

All well and good to think this, but when someone dies because of being encouraged to partake in stupidity, you can just about guarantee their SURVIVORS, ie kids or spouse, will be talked into suing everyone involved.

A couple of years ago, at RTTH, the autocross was inside the banked oval. I took a look at it and remarked to several people that it was a poorly designed course and would never be allowed where I used to do SCCA autocrosses. During the event, someone hit the wall. Thank goodness he wasn't hurt, except his pride, but it could have been much worse. I would bet that RTTH wouldn't have survived if Bill got sued.

I hate to be a killjoy, but it is stupid to have high speed events in cars without cages and proper safety equipment.

Safety equipment commensurate with the HP and speed potential of a car should be PART OF any pro-touring car. Going without makes as much sense as adding HP to an old car and not upgrading the old 4 wheel drum brakes.

We aren't reinventing the wheel here, there are already templates to go by, using SCCA or NASA rules.

[Finch]

All well and good to think this, but when someone dies because of being encouraged to partake in stupidity, you can just about guarantee their SURVIVORS, ie kids or spouse, will be talked into suing everyone involved.

A couple of years ago, at RTTH, the autocross was inside the banked oval. I took a look at it and remarked to several people that it was a poorly designed course and would never be allowed where I used to do SCCA autocrosses. During the event, someone hit the wall. Thank goodness he wasn't hurt, except his pride, but it could have been much worse. I would bet that RTTH wouldn't have survived if Bill got sued.

I hate to be a killjoy, but it is stupid to have high speed events in cars without cages and proper safety equipment.

Safety equipment commensurate with the HP and speed potential of a car should be PART OF any pro-touring car. Going without makes as much sense as adding HP to an old car and not upgrading the old 4 wheel drum brakes.

We aren't reinventing the wheel here, there are already templates to go by, using SCCA or NASA rules.


Make Optima another SCCA race and see how many folks drive accross country spending $2000 or more to attend it.

[barraza]

Make Optima another SCCA race and see how many folks drive accross country spending $2000 or more to attend it.

Or leave it they way it is, and see how many people continue to drive across the country to get spanked by purpose built race cars, and semi pro drivers.

The whole discussion is getting a bit ridiculous. With no rules, the typical PT camaro/mustang/any domestic car doesn't stand a chance against that cobra. And the typical driver doesn't stand a chance against Mary, an 11 time national autocross champion. More power to Mary, she shouldn't have to apologize for talent and experience. With enough practice, you might get close to her, but no amount of practice or effort will rearrange the laws of physics to allow you to compete with a car that is 1000 lbs lighter.

I have a feeling the tracks insurance certificate holder will have some input into safety requirements now that they have seen 600hp cars with no tops or roll bars doing hot laps on TV. Track insurance is expensive enough, they will get a handle on it.

[Finch]

Our leave it they way it is, and see how many people continue to drive across the country to get spanked by purpose built race cars, and semi pro drivers.

The whole discussion is getting a bit ridiculous. With no rules, the typical PT camaro/mustang/any domestic car doesn't stand a chance against that cobra. And the typical driver doesn't stand a chance against Mary, an 11 time national autocross champion. More power to Mary, she shouldn't have to apologize for talent and experience. With enough practice, you might get close to her, but no amount of practice or effort will rearrange the laws of physics to allow you to compete with a car that is 1000 lbs lighter.

Your missing the point. This event is more than trying to make it fair for our PT type cars to compete against the likes of the Cobra and or pro drivers. It is about the journey and the bonds/friends you meet along the way. Making it some over governed rule heavy race will just take away from the intent and turn most people off.

I for one will be there each and every year they let me to try and close that gap between Mary and the Cobra.

Not sure why you made the comment about Mary having to apologize for being talented. She was well within the rules and is a great asset to this sport.

[mpozzi]

And the typical driver doesn't stand a chance against Mary, an 11 time national autocross champion ....

Oh man ... talk about putting a huge bulls-eye on my back and I'm gonna have to really :drive:my butt off now. I need those uber-reflexes of the youngsters right about now and those guys are close enough!! Thanks, though.

I coulda taken that Cobra ... just not in my car and LOL on this one.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[Steve1968LS2]

Your missing the point. This event is more than trying to make it fair for our PT type cars to complete against the likes of the Cobra and or pro drivers. It is about the journey and the bonds/friends you meet along the way. Making it some over governed rule heavy race will just take away from the intent and turn most people off.

I for one will be there each and every year they let me to try and close that gap between Mary and the Cobra.

Not sure why you made the comment about Mary having to apologize for being talented. She was well within the rules and is a great asset to this sport.

True story.. while we all go to win what we really go for is to meet and hang out with great people.

People like Mary, Stielow, David Pozzi, Kyle Tucker are builders that just happen to be kick ass drivers.. if they ever made a rule against that then what would be the point. There's always going to be talent differentials between drivers, that's just life.

Can't wait to see your new car Brian, guys like you make me do stupid things like tear my car apart. lol

[barraza]

Your missing the point. This event is more than trying to make it fair for our PT type cars to complete against the likes of the Cobra and or pro drivers. It is about the journey and the bonds/friends you meet along the way. Making it some over governed rule heavy race will just take away from the intent and turn most people off.

I for one will be there each and every year they let me to try and close that gap between Mary and the Cobra.

Not sure why you made the comment about Mary having to apologize for being talented. She was well within the rules and is a great asset to this sport.

If the point is "the journey and the bonds/friends you meet along the way", then why is there so much discussion about who won? If you only want a journey, go on the power tour. If you want to race, it only makes sense to do it against a car that you stand a chance against.

I didn't say Mary needed to apologize, my point was that you can't regulate talent and experience. You can and should regulate physical car configurations so talent and preparation are the measures of winning, not the physics of a car that weighs 70% of it's competitors.

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh man ... talk about putting a huge bulls-eye on my back and I'm gonna have to really :drive:my butt off now. I need those uber-reflexes of the youngsters right about now and those guys are close enough!! Thanks, though.

I coulda taken that Cobra ... just not in my car and LOL on this one.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Ahh.. you aint much.. you're just lucky that I didn't catch you sabotaging my ps pump.. ;)

It would have been curious to see what you would have turned in Penny on that track (with power steering).. I KNOW you're way better than I am and I did a 42.9 on my first (and only) good lap.

I still think that new sport of Autocussing has promise.. :)

[Finch]

If the point is "the journey and the bonds/friends you meet along the way", then why is there so much discussion about who won? If you only want a journey, go on the power tour. If you want to race, it only makes sense to do it against a car that you stand a chance against.


If I wanted a nap I would go on the Power Tour.

[barraza]

Oh man ... talk about putting a huge bulls-eye on my back

11 championships will do that.

I have known your name from back in the 80's, when I did a lot of autocross. I always followed the national events to see how a local guy in my region, Steve Brolliar was doing. He's still at it, you may have run across him.

[mpozzi]

Ahh.. you aint much.. you're just lucky that I didn't catch you sabotaging my ps pump.. ;)

It would have been curious to see what you would have turned in Penny on that track (with power steering).. I KNOW you're way better than I am and I did a 42.9 on my first (and only) good lap.

I still think that new sport of Autocussing has promise.. :)

I master the Autocuss course and you all need to :worship: to the Goddess of the Four-Letter Word.

I actually turned a mid-42 second run that was going very nicely until I clipped a displaced but still standing apex cone from someone's previous run. Ended up with a 44.1 and THAT was the source of the major cuss-fest left on the cutting room floor. Should have stopped and even thought about it for a few seconds but didn't want to be a pill about SCCA rules concerning re-runs ... *shrug*. I don't remember if the pylons were marked so the courseworkers wouldn't have known to reset it unless it was down.

Definitely agree that Penny is a far superior car now compared to mine for both autocross and track. I'm plotting strategy to get closer ... note to self: must put car and self on diet.

If there's ever an opportunity, Brian and I should switch cars for a few autocross runs as his Camaro is one cool car. He'll be wanting to either change his suspension back to leaf springs after driving mine (not likely ...) or leaning out the window beating the hell out of the quarter panels with a riding crop yelling "GO ... Seabiscuit. GO." We're a bit underpowered compared to you, Brian ...

Somehow that didn't come out right. Brian with a riding crop??? :eek:

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

11 championships will do that.

I have known your name from back in the 80's, when I did a lot of autocross. I always followed the national events to see how a local guy in my region, Steve Brolliar was doing. He's still at it, you may have run across him.

Steve is absolutely AMAZING behind the wheel of any car. He's called the Alien and for good reason. A natural talent and please tell him I've admired his driving all these years. Great guy, too.

I stopped Solo back in 1991 and transferred my attention from the cars to training and showing horses (talk about expensive???) but took it up again in 2006. Got a bit more serious in 2008 and went to Nationals in a Shelby Mustang. Now I'm competing for the enjoyment of driving fun Camaros and for the people instead of trying for more National Championships. I may go back to Lincoln, NE this year but not sure.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[Ron S]

Watching this on Speed was the highlight of my week, and changing the event into a non street car challenge kind of defeats the purpose. Fully caged cars are allowed, just not required. I'm with Brian on this one, let whoever was invited run, it makes the rest of us faster. I'm also with Jeff on invoking the Dingleberry rule. Ron

[barraza]

Steve is absolutely AMAZING behind the wheel of any car. He's called the Alien and for good reason. A natural talent and please tell him I've admired his driving all these years. Great guy, too.



Yeah, he was pretty much handed FTD as soon as he signed in, no matter what showed up. I haven't seen him in a lot of years, and last I knew he was in FL, but I think he still registers TVR as his region.

This whole issue is interesting to me because the reason I quit autocrossing was because I hated getting beat by the little cars. Autocross is all about the transitions, and there is no way to ignore physics. My region generally layed out tracks so tight it was impossible for a 3500 lb race weight camaro to beat an RX7. I gave up and went road racing in FF.

In the case of the optima challenge, with enough space; a safe, relatively high speed autocross course could be designed that would better accommodate typical PT cars. Something between a typical autocross and a real road course.

[Steve1968LS2]

I master the Autocuss course and you all need to :worship: to the Goddess of the Four-Letter Word.

I actually turned a mid-42 second run that was going very nicely until I clipped a displaced but still standing apex cone from someone's previous run. Ended up with a 44.1 and THAT was the source of the major cuss-fest left on the cutting room floor. Should have stopped and even thought about it for a few seconds but didn't want to be a pill about SCCA rules concerning re-runs ... *shrug*. I don't remember if the pylons were marked so the courseworkers wouldn't have known to reset it unless it was down.

Definitely agree that Penny is a far superior car now compared to mine for both autocross and track. I'm plotting strategy to get closer ... note to self: must put car and self on diet.

If there's ever an opportunity, Brian and I should switch cars for a few autocross runs as his Camaro is one cool car. He'll be wanting to either change his suspension back to leaf springs after driving mine (not likely ...) or leaning out the window beating the hell out of the quarter panels with a riding crop yelling "GO ... Seabiscuit. GO." We're a bit underpowered compared to you, Brian ...

Somehow that didn't come out right. Brian with a riding crop??? :eek:

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

Your car won't be underpowered for long.. I'm juicing up your LS3 just a bit.

[Charley Lillard]

Or just throw out the autocross.................................

[wicked68]

Make Optima another SCCA race and see how many folks drive accross country spending $2000 or more to attend it.

I spent 6k between getting the car there and back / hotels / food /etc


I would, but I already put money into safety on my car. I saw many cars there that were very much into safety - just missing a few items here or there or chose not to wear some safety gear when they had it and knew better to - because the rules did not mandate it.
People dont always make the best decisions.

Like a few other peope said - if you can put that much money into your engine and suspension surely you can afford the small amount by comparison to make the car safe and quite frankly I think it enhances the look and value of the car.

This event will always have way more very nice cars that can meet safety willing to attend. I dont think they will ever have a problem finding good cars and drivers.

[Steve1968LS2]

Or just throw out the autocross.................................

Chicken... ;)

[David Pozzi]

I moved the safety discussion to a new thread here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64909

[Blitz]

Everybody already said just about everything I wanted to say, they were just quicker at posting it I guess. Here are some highlights.



...personally like the idea of having the new vettes, vipers, amgs and bentlys there. I think that is the whole idea of pro-touring is to directly compare the cars to new performance cars. ...that definitely adds to the cool factor to be able to see that a 69 Camaro just ran with or better than a new Vette.


I couldn't agree more. Even though I love exotics, it's funny knowing that they can get whupped by 40 year old steel.


Let's not make this overcomplicated..


Simple.

This should be the new title or at least the subtitle and should be auto-posted every third post.


My 2 cents...2 classes..One for owners...One for Pro shops, sponsors etc.. The shops can have whoever they want drive. They want to show how well their stuff works so they should be allowed to get someone capable of showing just good their car can work with their product. The owners drive their own cars. The event is invitational so the organizers can choose what gets invited anyway. The shops have their own shootout and the owners have their own shootout.

Exactly.



Maybe hold one in texas so its nice and central for everyone.

take all the ideas from this thread and make it a 2 or 3 day deal.

Great idea!! At least for as long as I'm a North Texas resident. At that point the location would have to change. :)

I want to see more coverage. If they can show Barrett-Jackson auctions for 6 hours or 2 hours of American flippin Idol, I would think we could make this a 2 hour in depth covered event. Brief driver history, car highlights and more race coverage would make it really nice. Now I know it would be tough covering 40 cars but we could iron those details out later. Anyway, those are my ideas...for now.

[DLinson]

If anyone doesn't want to go, I'd be more than happy to take my Nova out there and make everyone else look good. It looks like a lot of fun and I wish I could do it too. Hopefully I'll be able to make a PT event this year. If people complain too much about rules and stuff, that might discourage them from continuing.

Dennis

[justimagine]

We'd like to thank everybody for the very valuable input and want all of you to know that we are monitoring the feedback very closely. We will continue to do everything we can to make this a fun, exciting and safe event for all involved.

There will be some rules changes for 2010, some addressing directly the concerns posted here and a couple of others we came up with on our own. Please know we will never change the rules just to keep someone from winning or participating. We've only done this event for two years and we are still learning and rather than make knee-jerk sweeping changes, we will make subtle adjustments based on legitimate advice to keep things headed in the right direction.

We have assembled a committee of 10 individuals with various areas of expertise to provide guidance and direction as the event continues to evolve and grow. These individuals are well connected and influential within our industry and our hobby, and are passionate about what we do. I won't name them individually, but all of you would know them by name.

As for qualifiers, there will be several starting with The Faceoff at Road America on May 1st & 2nd. The others will be announced as they come on board, keep an eye out on the events board and check www.optimainvitational.com.

Thanks again for your feedback, we want to put on the biggest and baddest street car events on the planet!!