Air Compressor for painting.

[trapin]

Well....here's the first in a series of questions that will no doubt number in the thousands by the time I'm finished with this project.

Question #1 Air Compressor.

Currently I have a Craftsman 6 horsepower 30 gallon air compressor. Can I get by with this or should I step up. I don't mind getting a new compressor for this, I already have a buyer for mine should I choose to sell it and the money from that I'll just put towards my new one.

Thanks.

[parsonsj]

Tony,

I'm done with Craftsman oilless compressors. They just don't measure up. If you have the chance, I'd upgrade. When I painted the bottom of my car, I ran two compressors (both Craftsman oilless models) and they did fine, but one of them was a 175 psi 60 gallon loud mo*@#$#&$er. I have found my 30 gallon baby compressor is only good for low demand usage.

My next compressor with be a 60 gallon two cylinder model, probably from Enco. They run at lower rpm, last longer, and make far less noise than Craftsman's oilless models.

jp

ps. btw, I read the Craftsman was sued for claiming more compressor hp than it actually delivered.

[68protouring454]

tony, you first need to decide what spray gun you will use, and check its requirements, probaly an hvlp, but it will still need 10+ cfm at 90 psi, and like john says oiless are way to loud, my 7.5 hp 80 gallon tank 2 stage is not half as loud as the bigger oiless.
i would look for a good used ingersol rand t-30 5 hp 2 stage, 60-80 gallon tank, anything much smaller is gonna work way to hard and put way to much moisture in air line
jake

[trapin]

You know what guys, I just had a major break through. There's a place by my house called U-Paint-It, I can rent their 'down-draft' paint booth and a $600 SATA gun for $325 for the whole day. The booth is also a baking booth so I'll be able to bake the paint on. I think for $325 it is well worth it. What do you think?

[Happyfunballs]

Yes.....no question.

[parsonsj]

As you know, the main thing is to make sure you are ready. All the paint components, finished bodywork, etc. You'll also want to do as much of the masking as is feasible before you're "on the clock".

Painting my car bottom and engine compartment took about 60 hours, mostly because I had to let seam sealer set up 24 hours (between coats of DP90) and get some sleep along the way.

I'd think shooting exterior panels will take less time since you won't be doing seam sealer.

jp

[68protouring454]

if all body work is done, and is finish sanded, i would tape windows off, then trailer to shop, wash it down, bring it in booth, mask from floor to rockers around car, degrease, tack cloth and ready to go, you should be able to paint a solid color car in 3-4 hrs, add 2 hrs for stripes, goodluck i would go for the booth as well
jake

[parsonsj]

Ask about respiration: do you need to supply your own setup? Is it a fresh air system? If they supply it, what is their filter replacement policy, etc.

It's your life and lungs. Be sure and take care of them.

jp

[68protouring454]

just buy new throw away, gerson makes some decent ones, having fresh sir is much more important when not in a booth, most good downdraft booths change the air in the booth every 3 seconds so the iso's do not stick around, but it is nothing to fool with, i just can't imagine they have a fresh air system for so many different people to use.

oh ya, i have not seen any sata gun go for 650, i have 4 of them, and nver paid more than 450, i got 2 nr2000 hvlps and 2 digital rp's
anyway if you find out what model gun i can help you with what pressures to spray your base, clear etc, also find out what clear you will be using and mixing ratio, as that will move spraying pressures around
jake

[trapin]

Ask about respiration: do you need to supply your own setup? Is it a fresh air system? If they supply it, what is their filter replacement policy, etc.
That's a good question, John. I didn't think to ask him. Oh don't worry...nobody is more paranoid about safety than me. I plan to look like an astronaut walking on the moon by the time I'm done dressing for the deed. :rotfl:

I have no idea on the price of the gun. Maybe he was just bragging or something. I'll be sure to find out what type of gun it is. I'm heading up there one day this week to check out the facilities.

If anyone is interested and would like to investigate this, his name is Adam that owns the place and his number is (586)354-5441

I would like to paint the car in pieces. But if I have to, I'll just do all the cutting-in around the door jambs and hood and trunk area in my garage with a small HVLP detailing gun.

Guys....I'm thinking all black again. Might not be able to afford the other two colors. And doing one solid color will not take up a whole day so it'll trim the price down some. It's $50 an hour to rent the booth and $300 for an entire day. Besides...I just love black Camaros. Even if they are a dime a dozen.

[Happyfunballs]

Black will be eaiser for the first timer. However, I don't think I would jamb it in your garage. It's not that hard to tape off the interior and spray the jambs while your painting the exterior. If you're thorough you will get everything covered. The other thing to consider is that you will need to mask off the jambs when you paint it, which will leave a tape line. If you don't, you'll have dry spray and you won't want that either. Whatever you do, don't rush it due to the time constraint. Maybe see if you can work out a deal for a couple of days.

[trapin]

Happy....could I color sand those lines out after removing the tape if I do decide to cut in at the garage and tape the jambs?

The only area I'm concerned about is inside the door where the hinges are. I know I can get to it from the inside with the door open but getting to it from the opposite side will not be an option with the fender in the way. I don't think that I'll get full coverage in there. I'm also concerned about the rear flange on the hood, it seems hard to get to when closed and even harder when open. I'm guessing I will want to use a detail gun for these areas anyway. Right?

The other option would be to just paint the car with the front clip seperated. Leave the doors and trunk on the car and have the fenders and hood on saw horses and upper and lower valances on hangers.

[Happyfunballs]

You won't be able to sand that line out. It will continue to recede and feather back. Do as you say and use a touch-up(detail) gun for the hinge area, an ATD siphon gun can be purchased for around $25 and is good to have anyway and it sprays just fine. Seperate the front clip from the firewall, but it isn't necessary to remove it completely, just pull it back a bit.

Just for our info, does this car have a motor in it? Interior? Is it just a shell?


EDIT: A quick edit after I reread your post. If you are using a base/ clear, consider this. You could actually BASE your jambs, deck lid, and under the hood prior to the booth(this process is called "cutting in"). Then, pull it into the booth, base everything again including the jambs, etc when you base the whole car. You won't get a fresh coat of paint behind the hinges, but you did get paint there when you BASED it in your garage. Then clear everything as is. You may not get clear everywhere, but everything will be black. This isn't the best method cause the some of the base doesn't get the protection, but it's certainly an alternative to seperating the front clip.

[68protouring454]

why not align every thing at home, prep everything includig door jambs,doors etc, only bolt doors on with a few bolts and once at booth, take doors off and set up in booth in front of car?? then you can get base/clear in all areas, bake finish, once cool, tape up fender and quarter edges with a few layers of tape and install door, this is buy far the easiest and least aggravating, unless painting everything in peices
jake

[Happyfunballs]

I don't like to realign a door after its been painted. I like doing it once and leaving it. If you don't have a door stand, realigning by oneself is somewhat difficult. I wouldn't want to risk scratching(even if it was taped up) anything. Especially having to adjust the up/down, fore/aft position of the hinges, that also tends to scratch things, as well as breaking the paint on the hinge bolts. A viable option, nonetheless.

[Happyfunballs]

Let me suggest another option that you may want to consider. Before you spend the time and the money on the booth, why not practice at home first. I don't know what equipment you have, but I'll suggest it anyway. Purchase a single stage, catalyzed black paint and paint it at home first. There are a couple of benefits(along with a couple of problems) to doing this that may outweigh the drawbacks. Painting it with a single stage first will allow you the experience of spraying the same viscosity as a clear. It will allow you to see how much dirt your garage will allow in the paint, and it will show every little imperfection that you though to blocked out in the primer. Once it dries, you can block it just like a primer, then re-spray it with the base/clear for the last time.
The drawbacks are increased film build, a couple hunderd dollars extra, the sanding and additional prepwork....again. Since you haven't done this yet, this may be a cheaper alternative than the possibility of messing up the base/clear at $700 vs $200 for single stage. You may even decide that its more difficult than you think.

Just another option for you to consider.

[trapin]

Thanks Happy, thats some great advice. For the record I do plan to experiment on my old standard hood prior to going in the booth. I have a siphon gun already but plan on buying a detail gun for cutting in. I think what you suggested sounds best and that was to base the jambs, hood, and trunk then assemble and rebase when painting the exterior and then clear coat everything at once. Also...this car does not have an engine or trans in it.

Jake...that sounds intriging but I wouldn't trust myself to not muck the car up when trying to reinstall those heavy doors. Thanks for your input though...it's greatly appreciated.

[68protouring454]

do it once and be done, period
stop trying to get around not jambing it out first, spray jambs out and use some aperture tape in the jambs to seal the doors, it looks kinda like weather strip, it will give you a soft edge, and will be hardly noticable, unless under a microscope, or some a-hole , since you do not want to panel paint, just jamb it out, install doors, tape up jambs and go with it, i just suggested having doors off cause you will have no tape line and entire front clip will be aligned etc, i would have no problem having some paint broken on hinge bolts, easily touched up, i would never leave bare base coat to the weather, no f way, just jamb it and have guy at booth help you tape jambs so you get a soft line, and then some compound will soften it some more, goodluck
jake

[trapin]

Aperture tape? This will give me a softer line?

[gtome]

It is like 1/2" round foam with a sticky side. Essentially it just feathers in the paint and doesnt create a hard line like tape would. Also it will keep paint out of the interior and help keep any dirt that may still be in the interior from blowin out. Good for door jambs, trunks, and hoods.

[trapin]

Do you have any pictures of Aperture being used to tape jambs? I'm having trouble picturing how it would go on and how it would work.

*edit* Nevermind....I found some illustrations of the process elsewhere on the internet. I'm guessing I can buy it at my local paint store.

[Quick GN]

I have never done this its all in therory but what about painting the jambs after the body is painted?? I think this would work well and I am planning on trying it in the near future, if the entire car is going to be cut and polished than any over spray that gets on the body will be sanded out in the process, and even if you did tape off the body near the jambs you could sand out the tape line right to the door jab edge and polish it. what do you guys think?

[Richz68]

Tony,



Here is a great alternative to using a garage compressor, lines, filters, seperators, etc.

Plug turbine unit into 115 volt outlet, hook up hose to HVLP spray gun, turn on power and spray. The system actually warms the air, so moisture is eliminated, supplying dry, oil-free air to the paint gun. Warm air helps paint dry faster, so runs and sags are eliminated.

Turbines systems deliver a high CFM of air (60-80 cfm) but at low pressure (4-5 psi). The low pressure reduces overspray while the high volume of air moves the material. Paint goes on smooth with less mist, resulting in a 30%-50% paint material savings.

There is even a 2 Year Warranty, and a 30 DAY FREE TRIAL! TP Tools will actually let you try the turbine system in your shop for 30 days and if you are not 100% satisfied, return the unit in its original carton for a full refund or credit, less freight. (Subject to a cleanup charge if not returned in like-new condition.) They claim to have sold thousands of units on this basis over the years and find that those who use our the HVLP Turbine LOVE IT!

-- HVLP Turbine Paint Systems -- (http://www.tptools.com/prod_list_display.asp?dept%5Fid=L2%7E60&dept%5Fname%5Fp=Paint+Sprayers+%26+HVLP&mscssid=PS2QP4N6V8GW8GKV97ECU42MW99H3EJD)

[trapin]

Thanks for the info, Rich. I have decided to rent a paint booth near my house instead. It's affordable and will make the job a lot easier.

[Happyfunballs]

Quick GN, it's possible to do after the outside is painted, but again, you'll get tape lines. I've done it every way possible, and painting the jambs at the same time as the car, for me, yields the best results.