Project SCUD - 1969 Dodge Dart

[wellis77]

Finally got back to my Dart after a long year of being away. I mentioned it in my introduction sometime last year, but I live in Switzerland 11 1/2 months out of the year and only get back to the states to work on my car 2-3 weeks around Christmas. Not exactly the best time since it's been below freezing most of the time I've been back, BRUTAL! One of the fun parts is I get two Christmas's every time I come back, one for car parts, and one for Christmas. I generally buy parts throughout the year and do my own mini Sema-thrash over Christmas.

The plan for the car was originally a basic restoration with some suspension, engine and paint upgrades. Since discovering this site and researching various products, the build has evolved into a full on PT build with a Viper theme, but since it's my first, it's "Rookie Touring". This site is a great resource for information and the people here have already been a huge help to my build. I look forward to asking more questions and learning alot more as I go.

Plans for the car are a few subtle body mods, full chassis, 5.7 Hemi which will eventually be stroked, Viper T-56, Gen 3 Viper wheels and brakes, Viper IRS, exhaust through the rockers (similar to what else, Viper), Charger SRT hood scoop, ISIS, Dakota Digital gauges, a few other custom interior touches, and a bunch of other stuff which I'm sure I'm forgetting.

I've got a rendering coming and when it's finished I'll be sure to put it up.

The plan for this year was to begin teaching myself to weld, rip the quarter panels off the car, mock up the new quarters, check ride height, start mocking up custom rear spoiler, and anything else I could get done.

First thing I had to do was organize the garage. This is what I came back to...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5213-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5211-1.jpg

Second quarter panel mocked up...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5259-1.jpg

Checking ride height...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5255-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5257-1.jpg

Mocking up the spoiler...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5273-1.jpg

Putting a Viper third brake light in the spoiler...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/IMG_5270-1.jpg

Thanks to everybody that has already been a huge help and to those that will be in the future. I head back to Switzerland tomorrow so the working fun ends for the next 11 1/2 months, but I do get to have research and parts buying fun.

[spoilersbyrandy]

Hey, that is a great project. Those wheels really look great on your car! Keep the pictures coming.

[srh3trinity]

Nice looking build. I have got to know where you scored the Malibu Boats sign. My first Sunsetter had that script and logo and I always thought it was cool. It wouldn't look right on my current Malibu though.

[wellis77]

ha ha, the sign was an ebay score. My wife picked it up for my birthday she's a good woman! I'm a huge fan of the 'bu and look forward to moving back to the US from Switzerland so I can order another. Barefoot waterskiing and slalom skiing are huge passions for my wife and I; Switzerland isn't exactly conducive to either of those.

[wellis77]

oops, double post. stupid airport wireless...

[srh3trinity]

I can't imagine that Grand Rapids, MI is very conducive either. It takes commitment to be into watersports in an area with a short season, for that I salute you. Keep us posted on the build, looks like it is going to be a good one.

[FoxGranadaChuck]

Just out of mere curiousity, are you going to stick with the OE front suspension? Or are you going to go Viper?

[CruizinKev]

nice project! :twothumbs

[wellis77]

Just out of mere curiousity, are you going to stick with the OE front suspension? Or are you going to go Viper?

NOT running the OE front suspension. I'm using Viper knuckles for the ease of mounting wheels and brakes and building my own control arms based off Viper geometry. The rear will be Viper geometry as well. I'm considering using Viper control arms but need to get some measurements for the front arms to see if they will fit my chassis. The rears will definitely fit so I may end up using those as well depending on the cradle I build for the center section. Still up in the air on that one, but I have a year to figure it out...

[Nicks67GTO]

My favorite mopars are these little Dart's

[Diesel]

That is going to be sweet, those wheels are money and please keep it lime green!

[Rod]

:hammer: I like it KEEP IT GREEN, but my question is DART + VIPER = Vart?
or Diper?? :)

[wellis77]

Thanks guys. The color is being changed to Viper GTS Blue. It's been green for a long time (not original though) and I'm ready for a change. I thought about Snakeskin green, but I'm a big fan of the blue. PLUS, my wife is a big reason I'm back on the project so I want to include her as much as possible and she wants the blue too. So blue it is.

I wasn't sure about the wheels at first. I posted a poll on here some time last summer about either these or a set of CCW's, and the CCW's won out by a land slide. I just couldn't get the vision of these wheels out of my head and took a chance. Glad I went this route because I think they are right on!

[JJEH]

Awesome... i like the Dart's... :)

[Bryce]

very cool

[bamadale]

great looking Dart! love the color and stance!

[wellis77]

Got my rendering finished up and I'm pretty stoked. On the Dart side of things, it's a bit different than anything I've seen so far and that's what I'm going for, among other things. On top of it, I've had this in my head for about 7 years. Now I need to get back stateside and get to work...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/02/threefinal-1.jpg

[78 Type-LT]

nice..thoese wheel look killer

[Bjkadron]

Nice... But the front end needs something... Maybe move the grille out... or a front roll pan with a spoiler. Or both!!! and is that side exit exhaust? That would be awesome!

[wellis77]

Thanks. There is a spoiler on the front in the rendering and will be one when I get to that point in the build. That is side exhaust too, should be pretty sweet.

[Bjkadron]

Oh, I see it now... Keep us updated!

[spoilersbyrandy]

Thanks. There is a spoiler on the front in the rendering and will be one when I get to that point in the build. That is side exhaust too, should be pretty sweet.

I have front spoilers for the 69 Dart on my website. Randy

[wellis77]

Thanks Randy. I've seen the ones on your site and they look great but I want something full-width.

[Johnny C.]

Great looking project. I am a fan of the Darts. they make cool rides.

[stage2ROUSH]

Ive wanted to build a pt dart for a long time, just because 1) love the body lines,and 2) something you will NOT pass on the road(coarse or other wise).

[yodas little brother]

keep the green!

[badbu68]

Renderings kick ass, need more updates/pix please. :D

[curly]

Great project!

[wellis77]

I wish there was something new I could report. Since I'm in Switzerland 11 months out of the year and only with the car 3-4 weeks a year, the updates won't be too often. I have been designing my chassis and collecting parts. I hope to have the chassis on the wheels the next time I'm back in December. I'll be back next February as well and hope to have the floor cut out and the body resting in it's new home. Thanks for looking and the comments...

[wellis77]

Progress baby YEAH!!! Not exactly the kind of progress I'd like at this point, the kind where the car is getting built and it's on all 4's and rolling around and stuff, but progress none-the-less. I just worked an awesome deal for all the Viper related stuff I need. All my suspension components, frame cuts to build a jig, electric brake/clutch pedal assembly, gas pedal (all with the nice aluminum pedals), nuts & bolts, clutch MC and brake booster/MC, all my parking brake stuff (levers, cables, pulleys, etc), seats, and complete ABS system (gonna try to make it work). Don Scharf Automotive in Eagle River, WI hooked me up with an incredible deal saving me thousands $$$$$$. The only thing I still need is the hood scoop from a Ram SRT10 hood, and they will let me know when they get one in. I already have brakes, wheels, rear end, mirrors, third brake light.

After some discussion about doing my Dart as a wide-body, I'm having my rendering reworked as well to get a look at that. This time it's being done by Shawn Mascoll (Mascoll here on the board). I'm real pumped about it too. So far it is amazing and I can't wait to see what the final product looks like. I am already a huge fan of his work.

Only 6 more months until I can play. Sometimes it seems like time does not tick away fast enough... I'm certainly not going to wish it away though, life in Switzerland is far too good for that. But I am real excited about coming back stateside and getting to work! Hope everybody else is doing well with their projects this summer.

[boostin05blacksti]

please keep it green..I love that color..very cool cant wait to see future updates.:cheers:

[BirdsThaWord]

I agree that the green & black theme would look killer!!!

[BLWN1]

updates?

[droptop73]

What a cool project, a modern Hemi Dart. I am in the Grand Rapids area too. How long have you had the Dart? Was it Hemi orange at one time?

[wellis77]

Hey Jeff, I grew up in Kentwood so I've been in the area a while. I've had the Dart for probably 12 years but it hasn't been on the road in probably 7 or 8. It will probably be 7 or 8 more before it's on the road again but I'm hoping for more like 3-5. Once I get the chassis built it should move fairly quick I think. I have most of the big parts now so once I'm able to thrash, hoping it goes fast. Where abouts in GR are you?

[droptop73]

I'm thinking back maybe 20-25 years ago a friend had a 69 dart 340 4 speed. It was hemi orange with the rear wheelwells opened up like yours. It had Cragar 5 spokes. I am on the southwest side near M6 and 131.

[wellis77]

The Dart you are referring to is definitely not mine. Mine came from the Kalamzoo area. It was a light yellow prior to the sublime paint. Now it's going to be completely different. I'm looking to sway from the Mopar norm; I won't be a fan of the purists, but it's all good.

[wellis77]

No physical new updates yet. Viper suspension, frame sections, seats, anti-lock brake system, and some other goodies on the way. I also had my rendering reworked and it was just finished. I was looking at possibly doing a wide-body mod on the quarters and fenders so I could stuff an entire Viper chassis under the body. With the help of Shawn Mascoll, we looked at it a few different ways and realized that the lines on the Dart just don't look right as a wide body so we opted not to go that route. We ended up reworking the hood a bit, moved the driving lights to the bumper, changed the stripe, gave the project a name (if a mod could change the thread title to "Project SCUD, '69 Dart" that would be awesome!) and made a few other small changes. Below is the revised rendering and the new blueprint for the project, which has now been named the "SCUD". If you play darts at all you are probably familiar with the term. If not, look it up. I'm really pumped about the direction the project is taking and can't wait to get back on it. Like I said, I have a lot of parts on the way along with a plasma cutter, and new Millermatic 211 so I plan to have a whole lot of fun this winter.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/Tmp000011-1.jpg
Shawn was great to work with and did an awesome job working on my rendering and giving some great ideas. I strongly recommend him to anyone looking to do a rendering. You've probably seen his threads and the work you can tell is amazing! Thanks again Shawn.

[Bjkadron]

Nice! My only worry would be that the side exhaust will melt the paint off around it. or at least burn it.

[craigs73]

WOW thats a awesome rendering:) i will keep up with this i like it alot

[wellis77]

Thanks guys. I'm not too worried about paint around the exhaust. Many have come before me and done this so I should be okay. If I need to change something after a while, so be it.

[droptop73]

Looks great Will. When you're here in GR we'll have to get together for a beverage.

[wellis77]

I'll shoot you a PM Jeff when I'm headed back to town. It'll be around Christmas before I'm back. We actually have our tickets already, I think we come in around the 15th or something like that.

[chopsmitty]

Looks good - keep in touch.

[wellis77]

Hey Greg. How's the bike coming? I visit your site occassionally to check progress.

[mc84_zz4]

Absolutely sick rendering! All of it!

[SRT-68]

Great project! Is the Viper block and the 5.7l block the same bolt pattern? What clutch setup are you going to use?

[burnout]

Very nice ! I can't wait till the day I get my feet wet. Thought I was almost there but the engine in the wife's car went and we had to get something new for her. 2011 Hyundai Tucson was her choice while I kept my eyes on a 2011 mustang that she wanted no parts of. Sucks !

[wellis77]

Great project! Is the Viper block and the 5.7l block the same bolt pattern? What clutch setup are you going to use?

Thanks. I'm not 100% certain on the bolt pattern for the bellhousing but I don't think it's the same. I haven't decided which clutch I'm going to run yet but I'm using everything out of the Viper, electric adjustable pedals, hydraulics, etc. Should be a sweet setup.

[wellis77]

Thanks Burnout. Next time you should buy something older so you can finally get in the water... On the other hand, it might be better just to wait. My car has been sitting around for almost 10 years waiting on me. It was torture every time I would go to the garage and think, "someday..."

[ALLstrokedOUT]

..I'm not 100% certain on the bolt pattern for the bellhousing but I don't think it's the same.

A long time ago i was looking into that bolt pattern stuff, only for a small block vs the viper. I found one place that i cant find anymore that compared them..I know the starter is on the opposite side as the small block and i thought i heard it was the same pattern minus a bolt by one of the heads i THINK.. (but..is the hemi the same as the small block?? haha)

btw, i love the project and everything thats going into it!!

[wellis77]

The hemi is similar to the small black, starter on opposite (from what I've been told) and not using a bolt hole at the top of the small block bell on a 5.7. Sounds eerily similar to what you're saying about the Viper bolt pattern. The V10 could very well be using the same small block bolt pattern. If I could cheaply find a Viper bell housing I'd check it out. Looking at Quicktimes website, the bellhousings for the 5.7 and V10 are very similar. The V10 is missing a hole at the top and the starter is on the driver's side vs. passenger for the 5.7. Comparing the SB and 5.7, visually the bolt patterns look identical, starter is on opposite sides, but I "heard" the top hole doesn't line up between the two. I may connect with the guy I got all my Viper parts from and see if he has a bellhousing laying around...

Edit:
Checking out Quicktimes website, the 5.7 bellhousing looks to be deeper than the V10 by about 2.5 inches. I emailed Quicktime to find out because I found a deal on a bell.

[Bryce]

I thought the viper motor was just a magnumV8 5.2 or 5.9 with two extra cylinders.

[wellis77]

That's my understanding as well. That being the case, you would think the Viper bellhousing would work fine, but it's definitely not as deep as the 5.7/6.1 for the same trans. I'll find out, hopefully soon.

[wellis77]

According to Quicktime, the V10 has a unique bolt pattern.

[David Sloan]

Hi Will
i love the rendering that is just sick!! cant wait to see this come together.
Thanks

[wellis77]

Thanks David. I can't wait to get back stateside in a few weeks and get to work. I plan to get a lot accomplished but I'm going to have some questions that I'll need guidance on; love this site. I have a couple already but I'll need pics to explain and I won't have them for a few weeks so it doesn't do much good to ask yet. Your Camaro has already given me a couple ideas on some things I want to do on the front of my chassis build, so thank you!

[SRT-68]

Thanks Will! I am waiting for a reply from Hurst driveline on the bellhousing / clutch setup.

[wellis77]

No problem. I wish it were the same between the V10 and 5.7 because the V10 bellhousings are much less expensive. Maybe with a spacer or an adapter. I still would like to see a stock V10 bellhousing to compare. What are you working on?

[chopsmitty]

Hey Greg. How's the bike coming? I visit your site occassionally to check progress.

The bike is in "top secret" mode now. It'll be finished for spring and the whole show circuit plus a bunch of riding... Make sure you get ahold of me when you get back in town. Love to see your project and maybe help out a bit.
-Greg

[droptop73]

Make sure you get ahold of me when you get back in town. Love to see your project and maybe help out a bit.
-Greg

X2 Will
Jeff

[wellis77]

You're already on my list Jeff. I get into town on the 15th so if sometime between the 16th and 1st of January you're looking for something to do, I got you covered. I'll PM with my contact info when I get in.

[johnparts]

No problem. I wish it were the same between the V10 and 5.7 because the V10 bellhousings are much less expensive. Maybe with a spacer or an adapter. I still would like to see a stock V10 bellhousing to compare. What are you working on?The Viper has the same pattern as the Hemi which as we both know is shy 1 bolt in the top but other then that it's identicle. Chrysler does this so when the sell a crate motor it can bolt up to any trans.

[wellis77]

The Viper has the same pattern as the Hemi which as we both know is shy 1 bolt in the top but other then that it's identicle. Chrysler does this so when the sell a crate motor it can bolt up to any trans.

Any idea then on why the difference in depth of the Viper bellhousing and the Quicktime Hemi to Viper T-56? Should we be able to bolt a Viper T-56 to a 5.7 Hemi with the Viper bell, or is there a difference in the crank that requires the bell to be different?

[DButler]

Just curious I have read your thread and since you are going vper on everything else why not go with the viper v10 instead of the 5.7 hemi. I am sure there is a reason I am just curious.

[wellis77]

I didn't do the Viper V10 for a few reasons. Weight, I don't recall the numbers exactly but I think it's about 100 pounds heavier than the 5.7. Another reason, and probably the bigger reason, is the fact that I want the front of the engine either inline with or behind the front axle centerline (preferably behind). In order to pull this off, I'd have to move the engine quite a ways into the cabin of the car. If I were building a race car I would have done the V10 because I wouldn't be worried about cabin space. This car however, will be a daily driver and will be used to hall the family around and I need all the space I can get. PLUS, I'm 6'6" and need as much leg room as I can get. The engine will fit in the engine bay without having to be set back into the firewall. The radiator needs to be moved forward into the core support or in front of it but the next problem then is interference with the rack. The rack in the Viper is mounted higher than if I used an Alter-K and the V10 engine is set way back. If I had the engine that far forward it would really throw off weight distribution and even though the car is not a race car, I want it balanced because it will see autox duties as well as occasionally track time. Considering this, I couldn't justify the cool factor because that's really the only added benefit from my perspective. Are you planning to do it?

[DButler]

Nah, I am a chevy man with a twin turbo 67 camaro. Although I do like mopar, I was looking over your project and liked how you were modding all the viper stuff into your car. I figured engine placement was the issue I just thought a v10 in a dart would be cool, but if it doesn't fit the purpose I understand totally. You have a cool project keep up the great work. by the way I read an article a few years back that was on the kenne bell supercharger for those hemis and it was stated that the kenne bell supercharger works better on the 5.7 hemi than any other engine every designed for. My brother has a rumble bee edition dodge with the 5.7 engine with a jet chip upgrade and it is a fine running truck. Anyways just admiring your car and ideas and was curious why not go to a v10 with all the other viper mods.

[wellis77]

Thanks for the comments. I really wanted to do it but the main reason is for the WOW, and that doesn't justify the added cost in my mind. Especially when a few bolt on mods to the 5.7 will get me to a comparable horsepower range. It sure would look cool though popping the hood...

[wellis77]

FINALLY my turn!!! It's been a long year of watching everybody here making progress on their builds, ordering parts and tools, only to have them lie in wait. But now the game has begun, for me anyway!

Got back to Michigan late Wednesday and spent Thursday running around trying to get things cleaned, organized, boxes opened and unpacked, taking inventory of all the new stuff, and other prep work. Also dropped my rear-end off at Drive Train Specialists to get it assembled with fresh internals, 3:73 gears and a fresh posi since the spider gears were slightly roached (Viper guys...).

Friday I started working on my chassis table but ran into problems with my welder and band saw. Thought I had the issues with my welder worked out but not so much and I finally caved in and bought a new wire liner yesterday. I bought a new plasma cutter (love that thing) and welder in November but the welder was damaged in shipping so I'm waiting on parts for that before I use it and was holding out on a liner but had to cave because my welds were looking like globs of disgusting "i-suck-ness". Chassis table is now finished though I may go back, grind down some glob and clean up some of the welds. (it's embarrassing). I finished the table before having to quit for the evening yesterday so I didn't have a chance to level it out. I'll take care of that Monday morning, all while praying for minimal distortion... Here is a pic of the table.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2642-1.jpg

I am also still working on my band saw. I did buy a new one from H.F., but I don't want to keep it and haven't opened it yet. After examining what they had on display and talking with my dad and a couple other guys, I learned the spring on mine is WAY too small which is dulling my blades way too fast. I also found that the key to hold the drive pulley in place had fallen out which is why it wasn't working. I'm going to pick up a new spring Monday and a new blade and I should be good to go with that. Monday I'm going to set the car on the table after I get it leveled, then start assembling the Viper frame sections and suspension pieces to get it mocked up and build a suspension jig. I'll also be cutting out (love the plasma!) the floor and frame rails at the same time.

Onward and upward baby! Good stuff is going down. But it's freaking cold here!!! More pics to come as I get the good stuff done.

[Bjkadron]

Awesome!! Make sure you brace the body before you cut the floor out. Otherwise your dart will look like a pretzel.

[wellis77]

Unfortunately I haven't had much time to post anything since I'm busy either working on the car or having dinner with friends/family. I do have the chassis table finished and the car mounted on it. I've started assembling the suspension and cutting out the wheel wells. Going to build my suspension jig tomorrow and start mocking the suspension up. I'll get some pics tomorrow. Things are definitely moving along, albeit at a slower pace than I had hoped, but I may still be able to reach my goal of the chassis tacked together before I go back to Switzerland. More to come, including pics...

[droptop73]

It was great to meet you today Will. This is going to be a really cool car. I hope I can help more in the future.

[wellis77]

Thanks Jeff. It was awesome having you in the garage today helping out and getting to know you a bit. I really appreciated your input and guidance, HUGE help. I'm sure you are probably working next week, but if your not, you are MORE than welcome to come by; as you know there is still plenty to do. If it works out, I'd like to buy you lunch too. If it doesn't work, I'll get you in February when I'm back.

Definitely have some pics to share but they are all on a disposable camera that will be developed to a CD tomorrow so I'll have to add them tomorrow. Lots of fun went down in the garage today. Realized though that the Viper control arms are MASSIVE! It will take some creative engineering to fit the engine in a nice location but we'll get it. Plenty of clearance in the fenders but 275's are HUGE for the front of my little car. If you haven't used a plasma cutter before, those things are GREAT fun. It has definitely made the job of cutting the car up much easier.

[Bjkadron]

Great! I can't wait to see the suspension! Also those 275's in the front should look mean!

[Bryce]

I cant wait for pictures!

[wellis77]

Here are a few pics to hold you over. Lord willing the passenger front suspension will be locked in Monday with the rear having been begun. I will also have the rest of the floor and wheel wells rough cut out and gone.

Wheel in tire in place with the suspension mocked up. This is at ride height of 5 inches. Not much room between the top of the tire and the fender mount but there is enough clearance at full compression.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2673-1.jpg

Jigged up and fixed in place...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2674-1.jpg

Hard to tell from this pic but there isn't going to be much room between the UCA's...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2675-1.jpg

As it sits now after starting to rough cut the firewall and floor...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2676-1.jpg

More pics to come Monday. Merry Christmas everybody!

[Bjkadron]

Wow.. That extra 4" of track and the bigger wheels/tires are really noticeable! Where are you going to put the engine? Looking good!

[Bryce]

I think you need to go wide body!

[wellis77]

We'll see how it goes. We've talked some options but won't know anything for sure until we get the passenger side suspension mocked up and set the engine in place. I was talking with someone from this site yesterday about shortening the uppers and lowers. That would certainly be one option, and easier and cheaper than a wide body. I would have to rework the geometry but I think it would be worth it. Wide body isn't really an option for me, I've looked at doing it and I don't care for the looks of it on the Dart body. We're going to try and stuff the engine in there first and see what we have, then decide which way we need to go. Hoping to know what's up with that come Monday. I want to try and make it work with what I have first... we'll see!

[Bjkadron]

I'd vote widebody too, But I haven't really found a good looking widebody style that looks good on a dart. Unlike a Duster...

[droptop73]

It sure looks like there is MUCH more room now than there was with the Viper frame section in there. Shortening the arms may be worth considering if the engine placement doesn't work out. IMO widebody would ruin the lines. There IS a way to make it work... don't ever tell a gearhead something won't work. :)

BTW I have Thursday off this week with nothing planned IIRC. I'll try to get over and lend a hand.

[wellis77]

I agree with you Jeff. I think we can make this work. I spent some time looking it over and I think there will be more room than it looks once the other side is in.

I'll be there all day Thursday and you're more than welcome to come by. I'd love to have you.

[wellis77]

I also agree with you Benjamin, I haven't seen a good looking wide body Dart. I've seen one wide body Dart in fact, and it looked terrible, IMHO. I had Shawn do some wide body options on my rendering and it just didn't flow. Jeff is absolutely right, the lines don't support it well at all. A shop like JCG or Ironworks could possibly make it work and look good...

[johnparts]

Dude great progress.

[Bjkadron]

About the only way that I would see a widebody dart looking good, is something like they did here:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0812phr_1962_ford_falcon/index.html

Whack it down the middle and add width as needed. But doing it that way would destroy the light, lithe look of the dart. The other option would be slit the top of the fender, door, and quarter and add the width there. That would be hard to do, but also very hard to pinpoint what you did.

[67autocross]

You could always put a slant 6 with a turbo in it, that should fit between those A arms! Nice project!

[wellis77]

About the only way that I would see a widebody dart looking good, is something like they did here:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0812phr_1962_ford_falcon/index.html

Whack it down the middle and add width as needed. But doing it that way would destroy the light, lithe look of the dart. The other option would be slit the top of the fender, door, and quarter and add the width there. That would be hard to do, but also very hard to pinpoint what you did.
I completely agree with you on this Ben. This is the only way I think it would look good, I just don't see that as a viable option.


You could always put a slant 6 with a turbo in it, that should fit between those A arms! Nice project!
I talked about this with the couple guys that were helping me, but we decided against it...

[wellis77]

Updates from today...

Got the passenger side suspension locked down...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2751-1.jpg

Finished rough cutting the rest of the floor and uni-body...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2754-1.jpg

Once I get the rear suspension mocked up I'll start cleaning up the cuts with a cutting disc and grinding disc before I start getting things measured up for the chassis. Tomorrow I'll be getting the engine set in the engine bay to see what we have and what the next steps are. I'll also be getting the rear suspension mocked up and hopefully get it locked into position. I've already started assembling it but plan to get it finished up tomorrow.

Thanks for the comments and ideas guys. They help me make sure I'm thinking every possible option through. See y'all tomorrow!

[Bjkadron]

Gosh, That is really tight in the engine bay.. How many inches between the UCA's?
Oh the bright side, That invisible paint job you've done on the back is amazing!!! haha. Seriously though... I might get a little queasy when it comes time to cut that much out of my Duster.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

...Sweat jesus thats a lot of cutting!! I didnt think you were going to get rid of that much metal, looking like its all going in the rite direction though, keep it up, good luck!!

[wellis77]

Today's update...

Got the engine set in place. Not exactly where I want it but it told me what I needed to know... Control arms aren't going to work. (I pretty much knew that but was hopeful anyway). I ordered a set of universal uppers from AFCO today which will be at my place tomorrow and I'll do somemore checking. I'm going to download the trial of suspension analyzer and see if I can still use the stock lowers or if I'll need to build my own. No worries though, it's all good! On with the pics.

It's been a long time since an engine has been in this engine bay; I LIKE IT!!! I'll be setting it back into the firewall a few inches so this is not the final location, just put it in to check clearance of the A-arms.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2756-1.jpg

After that I moved on to the rear suspension and got the driver side locked down. I'll remove the Viper frame rails then get the passenger side tomorrow morning before moving on to playing again with the front suspension.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2759-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2763-1.jpg

This is a whole lot of meat in my little car...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2761-1.jpg

[wellis77]

Gosh, That is really tight in the engine bay.. How many inches between the UCA's?
Oh the bright side, That invisible paint job you've done on the back is amazing!!! haha. Seriously though... I might get a little queasy when it comes time to cut that much out of my Duster.

22 inches... Not enough! I did get a little queasy cutting all that out. My wife came by the garage and said, "where's the car?" the best was "do you know what you're doing?" My response, "the rest of the car is on the trailer outside," and "not really, but I'll figure it out..."

[Bjkadron]

Awesome! When you get moving you really get moving! If you could figure out a way to beam the exhaust out you could probably use the stock viper UCA's haha! What suspension analyzer are you talking about? Also are those the viper springs and shocks next to it?

Great progress! I love the huge tires and the stance!!!

[wellis77]

Thanks Ben. I would love to use the stock Viper UCA's, that stuff is real nice but it's very heavy. I'll be picking up an extra 3.5" between the control arms so I'll have plenty of clearance to squeeze the engine but I will likely have to build my own headers still. The flanges on the SRT-8 manifolds I have are huge so I may be able to use them still. We'll see. The shocks/springs you see are from the Viper. I'm planning to use Ride-Tech shockwaves all around so I'll be selling stuff soon.

The suspension analyzer I'm talking about is the performance trends version. Do you have it? Any recommendations?

[wellis77]

Not a whole lot of pics to show from today. Got the passenger side rear suspension jigged up. Took FOREVER!!! It's done though and all the suspension is in place until I get my new uppers and screw all that up again. I'll get to screwing that up tomorrow.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2779-1.jpg

The other thing I (we) got done today is I narrowed the rear-end cover and had a friend tig it up for me. Came out great and now will fit perfectly between the rear frame rails.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2780-1.jpg

More tomorrow!

[droptop73]

Looking good Will!

[Bjkadron]

Thanks Ben. I would love to use the stock Viper UCA's, that stuff is real nice but it's very heavy. I'll be picking up an extra 3.5" between the control arms so I'll have plenty of clearance to squeeze the engine but I will likely have to build my own headers still. The flanges on the SRT-8 manifolds I have are huge so I may be able to use them still. We'll see. The shocks/springs you see are from the Viper. I'm planning to use Ride-Tech shockwaves all around so I'll be selling stuff soon.

The suspension analyzer I'm talking about is the performance trends version. Do you have it? Any recommendations?

Yeah, the cast aluminum stuff is heavier than you would think...

No, I actually don't have a suspension program. I would like to, but I don't have the time or money for anything serious. I just have an Excel spreadsheet set up to do 3-link calculations, and I'm working with Bryce on my front. You might want to see what program he runs.

[454bug]

Great job on the rearend cover Will!

Awesome project and I applaud your patience while being overseas... I think I would have TOO much time to "think" about my project...

Are you going to be able to operate your vehicle at that stance or will you have an airbag suspension on it? It looks great at that ride height but I was wondering if your front could turn at that height...

[ZuperZport]

This build is too cool!

Awesome to see a project taken to a whole new level of craftsmanship and originality.

Keep up the great work.

[wellis77]

...I'm working with Bryce on my front. You might want to see what program he runs.

I may have to check with Bryce to find out what he's using. I received my new uppers today and they are WAY lighter and definitely ALOT shorter so the engine should definitely fit. I'll find out tomorrow...

[wellis77]

Great job on the rearend cover Will!

Awesome project and I applaud your patience while being overseas... I think I would have TOO much time to "think" about my project...

Are you going to be able to operate your vehicle at that stance or will you have an airbag suspension on it? It looks great at that ride height but I was wondering if your front could turn at that height...

Thanks Ray, that means alot after following your build. I definitely do have TOO much time on my hands, which is how the project has evolved from a, "new RMS front and rear suspension with some simple mods" to "what the crap are you doing???"

I will be able to operate the car at this height. We (droptop 73 [Jeff], myself, and another guy [Bob], set it up with clearance at full compression / full lock. Shouldn't be any problems. I am planning to run air as well but I need to get some specs from RideTech in order to figure out if they'll fit between the new control arms... The control arms are pretty small.

[wellis77]

This build is too cool!

Awesome to see a project taken to a whole new level of craftsmanship and originality.

Keep up the great work.

Thanks ZuperZport. I appreciate the encouragement.

[dusterbd13]

dude, keep it up. this thing will be insane!

and im amazed that you only have a 2 week vacation a year to work on it. you mnust have a very understanding famly.

[wellis77]

Thanks Michael. Two weeks a year is pretty SUCK, but I get 3 weeks by myself in February. Meaning, I can work up to 24 hours a day on it if I can stay awake. Should get TONS done then.

Today's update:

Doesn't seem like much was accomplished today but we got some done. Pics will come tomorrow since the camera is still in the garage. To summarize though, we put the engine/trans in the car and located it where I think I want it. This took some time because we had to shorten the input shaft to get the bellhousing to pull in tight to the block. The new control arms are pretty much all good, though I now have some clearance problems with the alternator. We think we can use the SRT-8 manifolds I bought off Chris by pie cutting the manifolds near the header flange, bending them down, and tigging them up. Got nothing to lose by trying. Once the engine/trans were in place we mocked up the floor height in the car and set the seat in it to figure out what I'll have for head room. This is a big deal since I'm almost 6'6". Viper seats are WAY comfy!!! Then started planning and laying out frame rails. Can't really do the fronts yet because I need to check the suspension geometry with the shorter control arms first. Since I'm running out of time, that may have to wait until February. Also can't really start the rear rails since I need to rear end back in order to see how high I need to kick the rear rails up to clear the differential. I may have some measurements stashed away that will help me with that. If so, I'll get the rear rails going tomorrow. I did cut the drivers inner rocker and pull it since the frame perimeter will be going into the rocker. Started cutting the passenger but couldn't finish before I had to call it quits for the night.

Long story short, alot of work went into planning and problem solving (more to be done there still), and only a little physical work. I'll get some pics up tomorrow for y'all to check out. I'm whooped and finally going to bed...

[cobraguy65]

Really liking this build! Gonna be unique for sure.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

...Once the engine/trans were in place we mocked up the floor height in the car and set the seat in it to figure out what I'll have for head room. This is a big deal since I'm almost 6'6"...

Ah, someone else on here whose tall haha. Im 6'5" and all i did to the duster was move the seat mounts back a couple inches and i have more then enough room; im looking rite through the middle of the windshield too. Of course you dont really have a floor to work with rite now... Keep up the good work, this thing is awesome already, im excited to see it come together!

[chopsmitty]

Nice job Will. The project is coming along! Get with me again in Feb. when you are back, I should have some more time and hopefully can help with what ever you may need.

[wellis77]

Thanks Greg. I'll definitely do that.

[wellis77]

Well, today is the last day I have to work on the car. Unfortunately I really won't be doing much on it. I have to get the garage cleaned back up so the other half of it can actually be used again. Yesterday's progress was limited, but still progress. I got the rocker panels opened up and trimmed back so I can slide the perimeter of my chassis into the rocker. I then wire wheeled the inside of it and laid down some Rust Bullet to prevent anything in the future. I was pleasantly surprised to find mostly surface rust inside; might be the only place on the car that was so nice... I am planning to box the rocker in with 16 ga. and was hoping to do it yesterday but the steel supply yard was not open, so that will unfortunately have to wait until I return in 6 weeks.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2800-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2798-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2801-1.jpg

While I was working on the rockers, I started cutting tube for the chassis. I've got about half of it cut so far but have to wait until I have the front suspension set to determine what the front rails will look like.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2799-1.jpg

I also downloaded a trial copy of Performance Trends Suspension Analyzer and put in my current points with the new UCA's as close to the stock Viper as possible, just further outboard by about a 1.5". I started a thread HERE (https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?75816-Help-me-understand...) to get some feedback on the results thus far but I plan to play a little bit with it and try the optimize function to see what it offers with current parts or if I'll need to build some LCA's to get better geometry and match the UCA's. At first it was a bit intimidating, but the video's Performance Trends has on their site are helpful and I finally got my junk in order on it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2802-1.jpg

That's it for now. I'll grab a couple more pics today as I get things taken care of, but that's where I stand (sit) for now.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2797-1.jpg

[joe440]

looking good, love the project

[wellis77]

Thanks Joe.

[rjsjea]

Intense build........ I dig it

[wellis77]

Hanging out in the Grand Rapids airport waiting to board and fly back to Switzerland, already looking forward to coming back 6 weeks from today. Had a great 2 weeks of working on the car, and while I didn't get everything on my list checked off (who does really, let's be honest), I was still able to get a lot completed. I would not have been able to get as much completed without the help of a couple guys, Dave and Jeff (droptop73). Without these two, I would still be stuck on what to do do about front suspension. Their help and guidance has helped resolve problems, bring about new ideas, and just have fun in the garage. Thanks guys!!!

Over the next 6 weeks I'm going to be doing some more reading up on suspension design and make sure I've got everything figured out with the new UCA's before I solidify their location and get the front rails built. After my next trip, I hope to have a rolling chassis.

Thanks for everybody's help, support, and encouragement on this website. Here is where we stand today and for the next 6 weeks...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/IMG_2804-1.jpg

[droptop73]

It was good to meet you Will, you made some great progress in just 2 short weeks. It is inspiring what you are doing in a 2 stall garage.

See you in a few weeks.

[ramlinman]

wish i had a few friends like that. anybody on here from northern illinois? lol

[rjsjea]

I just noticed....you going to mount the alternator before building the frame/suspension I assume? Going to be a point of interference on that 6.1

[tommycomfort]

Very cool build and amazing what you accomplish in short stretches.
Tom

[racedaddy]

sweet build, 6 weeks will be tough to wait to see some more progress

[wellis77]

Thanks Jeff, looking forward to getting the "band" back together in a few weeks.

Rob, the alternator is definitely a point of interference. We've already talked about modding the front cover to pull it in tighter. Another option we discussed was using solid mounts for the engine and bolting the alternator to the frame. That would definitely eliminate the interference but I want to exhaust all other possibilities before I move to solid mounts... it is primarily a street car after all.

[rjsjea]

Not the most visually appealing, but as you probably know the truck 5.7's mount the accessories up top giving you a bunch more room. The front covers are the same 6.1/5.7

[wellis77]

Yeah, we talked about that too. The visual appeal is the major buzz-kill on that. Still not completely out of the question though because it may clear up other potential clearance issues I have with steering rack placement (though I am only estimating location for that now but will get that ordered up in February). It would probably be pretty easy also to swap my car stuff with someone who has the truck stuff. I would need to find something cool and creative to do with the intake but that could be for down the road; maybe some injection stacks???

[rjsjea]

Injection stacks fit?.....depends on your hood plans, I suppose. Your build may be worth going with an intake from Precision metalcrafters, since it keeps the throttle body in front and looks way slick

[wellis77]

Rob,
If I remember correctly, wasn't your engine used to design the Hemi intake w/ Precision? I have yet to see pics of that intake on an engine, are there any out there? I'm curious how much height is added to the engine with that intake.

I was doing some thinking and remembered March Performance has a kit for the Hemi. It's pricey, but it looks like it would give me clearance for my engine accessories. I emailed them to get some specs/measurements on the relocation of the AC pump, PS pump, and alternator, but this could solve the accessory drive clearance issues and not force me to go solid mounts. Could also gain a bit of additional rack clearance.

[rjsjea]

It was my intake, but Ned had it sent to Precision for modeling. PM sent

March's kit would probably make the packaging easier. It looks better than the stock 5.7's too

[wellis77]

I haven't seen the March kit on an engine yet, but from the pics, I have to agree. Even though it's pricey, I'll probably ending up going that direction just because it will make packaging easier. Thanks for the PM.

[paul67]

If you are worried about the Upper control arm have you thought about McPherson strut.Also over in the UK and europe there is a racing series touring car and there suspension I reckon only move's about an 1-2". The truck I'm running around in is only using about 2" and we have some bad roads.Sometime's you can go to deep it make's your head spin.Look at a formula 1 or indi car there more movement in the tyre when the car hits a bump than in the suspension and there only about 1 1/2" off the ground .If the suspension does not move that much then somethings don't come into play,like was mentioned dive did not really kick in till the second inch of movement I would be worried about bumpsteer,now thats a pain just thought, how much travel have the other cars got that you might compete against if that's the aim of the car,nice car by the way .

[wellis77]

Thanks for the feedback Paul. I'm not too worried about the UCA any more. The shorter UCA gives enough clearance. My buddy Dave also successfully pie cut the SRT-8 headers and bent them in to gain almost an inch of clearance on the passenger side and about 5/8" on the drivers side. I'm also thinking about using an over/under DOM tube arrangement for the front rails which will give clearance for the steering rack. I will likely be shrotening the LCA's which will allow me to recess the shock mount and "should" allow me to clear the UCA with Shockwave I'm looking to run and maintain the Viper's full suspension travel. Slowly getting it all figured out.

I hated leaving the first of January with so many lingering questions on my build but it has been such a benefit to step back and do some problem solving/planning. Thanks for all the feedback everybody, more coming in the very near future.

[demoncar]

What about running the alternator off the drive shaft? True, the car would have to be moving for the charging system to work, but it would free up what seems to be much needed space.

[droptop73]

That is a good idea. With the IRS it would be easy.

[wellis77]

That is a good idea. How could I keep the "elements" out of the alternator? I would imagine dirt, road grime, and other nasty junk would raise havoc with an alternator. I've never seen this done so it's quite interesting...

[chunger]

I think I've seen this done before by street rodders. Several early cars have extremely narrow engine compartments, so they ended up running the alt off the driveshaft.

[wellis77]

I like the idea and it would definitely save some valuable room, I'm just concerned about the longevity of an alternator exposed to those elements.

[dusterbd13]

it should be fine. this car will only be driven on nice days. so, youve gotta think. more airflow due to where its located, less concentrated heat to deal with, and even if you do get caught out in the rain, its a great once in a while, and the alternator is in the middle of the car, out of the line of direct spray. so, its really ot that much different than being in the engine bay.

my onlu concern would be traffic jams with the AC on, the stereo on, and the lights on.

[droptop73]

You need to pay attention to how far you back down the boat ramp. :D

[wellis77]

Thanks for the reminder Jeff. No longer an option... I've got an idea for the front frame rails that may give needed clearance for a low mount alternator. Otherwise, the only other option for mounting on the engine is either switching to truck front cover/accessories/intake or using the March performance accessory drive. I'm not a huge fan of the styling on the March kit but it will easily give needed clearance.

[droptop73]

I think either way you decide to go it is not a huge issue to work around. I'm with you on the March stuff kinda "Street Rod" with the art deco styling on the ones I've seen.

[wellis77]

Almost go time, again!!! Can't wait to get back to town Sunday for my three week mega thrash! Parts are stacking up, mostly stuff to build my LCA's. While I will likely not need the amount of articulation provided, I have a bunch of Del-Spere Pivot Joints coming (enough for front and rear LCA's), some Howe Precision ball joints already in house, motor mounts coming, trans mount in house, picking up some DOM tube upon arrival along with my rear-end.

I ordered my Del-Sphere's direct from Spohn and found out they have a HUGE metal brake so I am having them CNC bend some one piece inner rocker panels that should be there when I arrive Sunday. I still need to order some rod ends for my rear steering arms but I'm not sure what size so I'll have to wait for that. I'll need to pick up some extra steel for mocking things up in place as well. The plan is set and Lord willing I'll have a rolling chassis in 4 weeks. Once that is finished I can get measurements taken for my custom Rick's tank and Charlie's oil pan for later this year. Planning to buy a small tig machine later this year also (oh yeah, got a new job at IBM so I get a few xtra bucks a month for car parts/tools) and start on some body work and exhaust routing next Christmas... One step at a time though, install inner rockers while getting front and rear suspension finalized, build LCA's and reset front and rear suspension, get this chassis built, attach to car, set on the floor, install trailer hitch (why not...). Got a full plate but I also have a lot of time since the entire trip is planned for car building. Should be a lot of fun!

[droptop73]

Has it been 6 weeks already? WOW

[CrossRamRich]

That is a bitchen build! Nice!:cheers:

[wellis77]

Hey Jeff, it's definitely been 6 weeks already. Amazing how time flies huh? I've got a TON of running around to do today (gotta pick up some DOM, my rear-end, some additional square and rectangular tube, etc, etc) so I doubt I'll get any work done, but tomorrow it's going to get crazy up in here! Are you around at all the next 3 weeks? Feel free to come by whenever.

Thanks for the comments Rich. I'm looking forward to getting rolling on this again.

Ahhhh, good to be home...

[droptop73]

I'm around a little bit. I'll give you a call.

[wellis77]

Cool. Spent today running all over the city doing craziness. Tomorrow I'll be getting things setup and organized, and Wednesday the real fun begins!

[TARAfied]

WOW, just read thru this whole thread. Very impressive! I am jealous of your skills! Always loved the Dart body, glad you are not going widebody and went back to the original rear wheelwells.

[wellis77]

Thanks Craig. It's been fun so far and I can't wait to see how the next 3 weeks finish up. More to come...

[TARAfied]

I may have missed it somewhere but what do you do in Switzerland (If it is not being too nosey)?
I travel for my job, some international, mostly domestic. I'm gone pretty much every week but when I go overseas its usually only a few weeks at a time. I work for an aluminum company, I troubleshoot manufacturing issues for our customers.
It's hard to find time to tinker when your on the road, I can't imagine being gone as much as you are. Keep up the great work!

[wellis77]

Not nosey at all. I'm going to school finishing my degree and just got a job at IBM. My wife is working as a dental hygienist. My wife has been in Switzerland for 5.5 years and I've been there almost 3. She was there already while we dated and when we got engaged, we spent a lot of time talking and praying about where to be and felt Switzerland was the place. Switzerland is an amazing place and we both feel very fortunate to be there. It's been a great place to start our life together.

[mincharlie]

Im sure your out in the shop! keep up the great work. Its really looking good!

[TARAfied]

cool, thanks for sharing.

[wellis77]

Was definitely out in the shop and I'm about to head back out. I need to take some pics first. I've got almost all of my frame rails cut, have begun assembling the perimeter, and will continue with the chassis assembly today. More progress to follow...

[ramlinman]

pictures will.....?

[wellis77]

Y'all better chill!!! Working in the garage all day doesn't leave much time for updates. But I got a few pics for you. All day Monday was spent running around and getting my junk together, a little bit more of that yesterday but then started cutting more tube and getting my perimeter frame rails put together. Also was double checking some measurements on my front spindle to make sure the geometry I have is solid; all is well on that front. So, here are some pics...

Got caught dealing with jet lag around 10 to 6 yesterday morning
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file1-1.jpg

Getting frame rails put together
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file2-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file3-1.jpg

Assembling the front 2/3 of the frame
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file4-1.jpg

And where I'm at now with the frame
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file5-1.jpg

I've got my welder dialed in pretty good for this 1/8" stuff; now if I can get the operator dialed in I'm good to go... I also started building my jig for the LCA's and will finish that up tomorrow with the hopes of getting the new LCA's put together. I'll get some pics tomorrow, but I received my Del-Spheres from Spohn, those things are beautiful, as well as my Howe ball joints, those are super nice too. In addition to getting the LCA's going tomorrow, I'll be trying to get the rear frame rails finished and added to the chassis along with getting the back brace measured up, cut, and tacked in place as well. If I get through all of that I'll work on the front cross member and hopefully start building suspension mounts this week(end). More to come but things are going well and I'm real happy so far.

Bis Morgen!

[Motorcitydak]

Great to see more work goin on, just be careful with that surface rust. Id say hit it with the POR-15 3 step coating because you never want your work to rust out from under some paint

[wellis77]

I hear you on the surface rust. Once the chassis is finished I'll clean it up real good and hit with something. Need to look into the POR-15 3 step, have never used it. Thanks Steve.

[CruizinKev]

looks great! good work :twothumbs

[Motorcitydak]

Its great stuff, here is my before and after. The stuff is hard as nails too and runs into every pore of the metal

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/DSCF1170-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/DSCF1235-1.jpg

Better shots of the drivers side I did

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/DSCF0934-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/DSCF0933-1.jpg

[wellis77]

Steve, did you brush the POR15 or spray it? I have about a half quart of Rust Bullet and may use that.

[wellis77]

Here's some progress as of late. Doesn't seem like much but I've been working my junk off! The chassis is almost finished after I had to rebuild my front frame rails; I can do statistics and calculus like nobody's business, but apparently 7th grade geometry has fled through my first set of front and rear frame rails.
So, I built the rear rails tacked them in place, rebuilt the front rails, tacked them in place...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file9-1.jpg

...started building the back brace, tacked it in place, and here is where the chassis is at...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file10-1.jpg
I have a lot more to do on the back brace to strengthen and finish it but I ran out of material since I changed the design. I'll pick some up and get it finished up tomorrow.

After double checking all measurements I welded the chassis solid and began the fishplates. I've got all the fishplates cut and tacked in place and will get those locked down tomorrow as well. Tuesday I'll begin working on suspension mounts and front cross member.

While all this has been going on, more parts have come in, Spohn Del-Spere's, Howe Balljoints...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file6-1.jpg

Trans mount when I get there later this week or first of next...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file8-1.jpg

Rear license plate holder from a '77 TA to hide the trailer hitch mounted to the frame...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file7-1.jpg

And finally the jig for my LCA's...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file12-1.jpg

That's enough for now, more to come tomorrow.

[Bryce]

Nice work. I like the jig!

[ramlinman]

will your killing me... a whole week is gone

[wellis77]

Yup, and I still have 2 weeks left. There is a lot to do but there is also plenty of time. It's all good!

Thanks Bryce.

[wellis77]

Not much in the lines of fun pics to show for progress but here's where I'm at this morning.

Yesterday got my tube bender put together. Bought it from tubetek.net; they have a great price and their product is really good. I built a bench top base for it which worked out great yesterday.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file14-1.jpg

Used it first to bend up some rear tubes that will pick up the rear lower control arms. I'm using tube clamps (https://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Synergy-Suspension-Interlocking-Inner-Diameter-ID-Tube-Clamp-p-66.html) on the rear pickups in order to drop the entire rear-end, if needed, but I need to get two additional that should be here Friday. My original design only required using two tube clamps, but I changed it in order to make building the rear frame rails easier, which also simplified these tubes but now I need two additional clamps. The tubes are tacked in place until I can get the suspension mocked up against it and I know the fit is perfect.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file13-1.jpg

Welded in the rest of the center section on the chassis, with exception of the support pieces that the floor will rest on. I'm waiting to put those in until I can test fit the chassis; I want to make sure the width is adequate for the trans and exhaust routing. This isn't a great picture to see it since the chassis is upside down but I'll try to get it flipped today.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file17-1.jpg

My new inner rocker panels will be here tomorrow so I finished getting the drivers side ready for those, still need to lay down some weld thru primer but I'll get that today. Sure isn't much left of the original rocker, but this should work out perfect.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file16-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file15-1.jpg

Had some problems with gas flow on the welder over the last few days so we spent a bunch of time getting that worked out. I noticed the problem while welding on my fishplates, they came out looking terrible so I had to grind everything down; hoping to get at cleaning those up a bit soon. Took a while to get it worked out but we fixed the issue (kink on the line inside the machine) and all is good now.

Today we are assembling my front lower A arms; we're tigging these together. My buddy Dave will be doing the tig work on these so I'm headed to his place shortly. After that, I'll come back and finish getting things ready new inner rockers and installing the chassis for the first time. Hopefully will be another productive day. I still have a lot to do in order to make this thing a roller before I leave but I believe I can do it, time will tell. More to come...

[CruizinKev]

looking good :twothumbs

[ramlinman]

what is your plan for inside the rockers will? are you going to do away with the pinch weld?

[wellis77]

Here is what I'm planning for the rocker. The pinch weld is already gone, in this picture the green represents the existing rocker and the red is the new inner rocker and the silver is the 2"x4" perimeter frame tube. My inner rockers will be here tomorrow. I had them bent up by Spohn. They have a large brake and I had these made as 1 piece rockers and are 7' long. I'll need to cut them down to about 6' 5". Should work out great! I hope to have them in this weekend and get the chassis in this weekend as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[TARAfied]

cool

[ramlinman]

Here is what I'm planning for the rocker. The pinch weld is already gone, in this picture the green represents the existing rocker and the red is the new inner rocker and the silver is the 2"x4" perimeter frame tube. My inner rockers will be here tomorrow. I had them bent up by Spohn. They have a large brake and I had these made as 1 piece rockers and are 7' long. I'll need to cut them down to about 6' 5". Should work out great! I hope to have them in this weekend and get the chassis in this weekend as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

are you butt welding the bottom of the inner and outer?

[wellis77]

We had to cut the flange off the bottom of the inner rocker so it's not really a butt weld any longer, more of an outside corner weld.

I've got some pics I'll get up later but the inner rockers are tacked in place and the chassis is INSIDE the car. Unfortunately I have some warpage in the front and rear rails but we should be able to get that squared away tomorrow. Pics are coming soon...

[racedaddy]

What gauge are the inner rockers you had bent up?

[wellis77]

I had them made out of 16 gauge and cut to 7'.

[wellis77]

In the midst of my crazy thrash, I'm still having parts show up. Picked up these sheet metal valve covers from Tim Bruning...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file18-1.jpg

The inner rocker panels I had Spohn bend up...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file20-1.jpg

Here are the lower control arms we built, have yet to put the mounts for shocks on...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file19-1.jpg

Stripped the car down to nothing, again...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file24-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file23-1.jpg

Built a rack for all my steel...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file25-1.jpg

And now I have a roller...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file26-1.jpg
Since that was my goal for this trip I guess I can go back to Switzerland now. Until Christmas 2011...
Just kidding!

The frame is now sitting in the car...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file27-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/file28-1.jpg

I need to get some better pics tomorrow but my camera battery was tot. Tomorrow I'm completely welding the inner rockers, pulling the chassis out and laying down some rust bullet on the soon to NOT be exposed areas, then reinstalling the chassis, welding it to the table and, Lord willing, fixing the warpage in the rails. Pretty happy with the progress and I still have time to make this car a roller before I leave. More, and better pics, to come... I would like to add that I wouldn't be this far in the build without the help of a couple great guys, Dave and Jeff (droptop73). Thanks fellas, you are truly a blessing.

[Bryce]

Great progress. Looking really good.

BTW, whats that white stuff on the ground?

[RicerwannaB]

Awesome project man! Love the way your going with it. Im in Kalamazoo, Hope to see it when its done! If you need a hand, let me know.

[Bjkadron]

Wow.. I step away for a second to do some homework and take some tests and you have a full frame when I get back! Great work!

[wellis77]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. It means a lot and the encouragement keeps a guy moving, I'm sure you all know that.

Today it doesn't seem like much got done, but we made progress. We pulled the chassis out and welded in the inner rockers, put the chassis back in and straightened the front frame rails. I then got the front suspension in place and we designed some brackets to be laser cut for the control arm mounts. Should have those Monday and get those tacked in place. Hopefully we'll get the rear rails fixed Monday and can get the rear suspension mocked up so the brackets can be built for that. I didn't do a good job getting pics today, too busy busting my junk trying to get stuff done.

RicerwannaB, I"m here for another week and your welcome to by anytime. Otherwise I'll be back in December.

[chopsmitty]

You are doing an awesome job for a first time project of this magnatude. I'm guessing the time you have between periods you can actually work on this helps with research and thought/planning. Your Dart will turn out wonderful - keep up the good work.

I'll let you know when the laser work is done - hopefully by tomorrow PM!

[wellis77]

Thanks Greg, I appreciate your words, your help, and especially the insight on what I can do to add additional rigidity to the chassis. I'm looking forward to getting these pieces and hopefully we can get some of the others put together as well over the next couple days. Talk to you soon!

[wellis77]

Got a bunch done today. Welded the chassis into the car, welded the rear tubes in, finished straightening the front & rear rails, started cutting and mocking up the mounts for the front bumper, reset the rear suspension in order to measure for mounts. Also got the first set of front suspension mounts delivered today. The rest of my mounts should be in tomorrow. BIG thanks to Greg (chopsmitty) for helping with these. Here are a few pics...

I have thought a few times over the course of this build that I never expected to see my car look like this...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file29-1.jpg

The first step in putting together bumper mounts, these have a LONG way to go...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file30-1.jpg

Resetting the rear suspension and the rear tubes that have been welded in...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file34-1.jpg

And finally, the brackets Greg designed and cut for me. Tonight we took measurements for motor mounts as well as rear suspension. Still putting together a tube that will run between the LCA mounts...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file31-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file32-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file33-1.jpg
Sorry for the dark pics, my wife leaves and all of a sudden I can't work the camera?

Hopefully I have another great day tomorrow getting the UCA mounts welded in, more work on the front bumper mounts, starting the rear bumper mounts, and begin adding some additional rigidity to the back-bone of the chassis. All of a sudden that's a big list. More to come...

[wellis77]

Got a bunch done today. Welded the chassis into the car, welded the rear tubes in, finished straightening the front & rear rails, started cutting and mocking up the mounts for the front bumper, reset the rear suspension in order to measure for mounts. Also got the first set of front suspension mounts delivered today. The rest of my mounts should be in tomorrow. BIG thanks to Greg (chopsmitty) for helping with these. Here are a few pics...

I have thought a few times over the course of this build that I never expected to see my car look like this...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file29-1.jpg

The first step in putting together bumper mounts, these have a LONG way to go...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file30-1.jpg

Resetting the rear suspension and the rear tubes that have been welded in...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file34-1.jpg

And finally, the brackets Greg designed and cut for me. Tonight we took measurements for motor mounts as well as rear suspension. Still putting together a tube that will run between the LCA mounts...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file31-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file32-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file33-1.jpg
Sorry for the dark pics, my wife leaves and all of a sudden I can't work the camera?

Hopefully I have another great day tomorrow getting the UCA mounts welded in, more work on the front bumper mounts, starting the rear bumper mounts, and begin adding some additional rigidity to the back-bone of the chassis. All of a sudden that's a big list. More to come...

[RicerwannaB]

Car looks awesome in person, Cant wait to see it sitting on the ground.

[wellis77]

Thanks Charlie. It was great meeting you yesterday, I appreciate you coming up. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your project; and hopefully I can get some pics up by Friday of this car on the ground. It's coming along. I'll post more of an update later.

[droptop73]

Great progress Will. I wish I was there to help but there's this job thing getting in the way! LOL
Keep up the good work this week and I'll see you in December.

BTW those brackets are REAL cool, Give Greg an "atta boy" for those.

[wellis77]

Thanks Jeff. Definitely missing you and will be missing you when we take this thing off the table...

[wellis77]

Another great day working on the car today. Here is what we got done.

First we welded in the front UCA mounts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file36-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file37-1.jpg

Then we added bracing for the floor supports
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file38-1.jpg

Then I spent some more time on my bumper mounts. Still more work to do but they are far enough along that I could weld them in, so I did.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file39-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file40-1.jpg

Then Greg (chopsmitty) showed up with the rest of my brackets and tube for the front LCA's. Here is the mock-up of the front LCA mount. Another HUGE thanks goes out to Greg for working with me on these brackets and for all your help.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file41-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file42-1.jpg

Motor plates and mounts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file43-1.jpg

Rear UCA and LCA mounts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file44-1.jpg

The front suspension will be finished tomorrow less the shock mounts (I'm buying shocks this year and will install those next Christmas), steering rack (again, ordering this year for next Christmas), and the other pieces of the front cross member (hopefully can get that finished up in the next couple days as well). Lord willing I'll have the rear suspension mounted less shocks and toe links.

Tonight I also started working on my rear cross-member that will pick up the rear bumper mounts as well as an idea for a new core support. Unfortunately I forgot to get pics of those and I'm too tired to go out and take them now. I need a shower and sleep. Bis morgen!

[chopsmitty]

My small part in Will's project requires a shout out to Randy Soper, the owner of Superior Cutting Service in Holland, Mich. Due to the super tight timeline, Randy cut the brackets/tabs in a matter of minutes. His prices are great and they are 'car guys' - send 'em business!

[wellis77]

Be sure to extend my thanks to Randy. He did a great job getting everything cut and so quickly at that. I'm already look forward to tomorrow morning. I'm whooped though so I gotta role. Thanks again Greg.

[RicerwannaB]

Awesome, those mounts look great!

[wellis77]

Thanks Charlie, they came out perfect!

[wellis77]

I got a phone call today that said I've been "skimping" on the updates. Sorry about that. I'll try to do better, but when you're on a time crunch, pictures aren't always the first thing in your mind you know...

Anyhow, have definitely taken some HUGE strides the last few days (and weeks really). Honestly I'm a bit exhausted... Lots more to do but had a setback today. The LCA brackets are 7/8" too short and I wasn't able to get additional brackets cut today so those will hopefully be ready tomorrow. If they are not, I won't make my goal of having a roller before I leave. I'll be close but would come up just short. I have plenty of other things to work on in the mean time. We are trying to get some tube bent up to put in some additional structure for the back brace. Only problem is I need a bender die that I can do a 1" tube with 5" or less radius, the same for 2 5/8" tube (driveshaft hoop). I didn't get a chance to work on my core support any more today but I may go back out for a couple hours and work some more on that and the rear bumper brace, then again I may not cuz I'm freakin' whooped!

However, we did get some work done, like welding in the front LCA mounts (ignore the bolts with all the washers, these are obviously not the final fastners)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file45-1.jpg

Added a cross member under the bumper mounts to give some rigidity up front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file47-1.jpg

Got the engine/trans back in so we can bend some tube around the bellhousing and a few tubes for the tunnel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file46-1.jpg

Got the rear UCA mounts tacked in place
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file48-1.jpg

We started bending the hoop for over the bellhousing but I had dinner plans with my brother and the work was cut short. Back at it tomorrow. Really want to get this back brace thing finished but we'll see, getting tube bent seems to take some time. More to come tomorrow.

[droptop73]

Wow Will that's some great progress!

[chopsmitty]

Dropped off the correct size tabs for the rear lower a-arms and the car is looking good! Lets see this thing on the ground by tomorrow evening!!!

[wellis77]

Thanks Greg, found them and they are perfect! I just got back from a 'farewell' evening and now I'm headed to the garage. See if I can get a couple hours in before I pass the heck out...

[wellis77]

Jeff, I told Dave about your message and he wanted me to tell you to take some time off that 'work' you do and take some pics already... LOL

[Motorcitydak]

Yeah, what he said! On the ground man!

[RicerwannaB]

Its looking good man! Thanks for the info on Mascoll designs, I tried to PM you back, But it says your storage is exceeding its limits.

[wellis77]

Working on it Steve.

Charlie, I cleared out my inbox so go ahead and send it when you can.

[wellis77]

So, todays work. Getting REAL close. Stayed up late and got a good jump on tomorrow. Hopefully I don't sleep in too much, haven't slept past 7:00 yet though.

So we got a bunch of tube bent today for the tunnel (takes a long time for this rookie to bend up tube). I also bent up a front cross member but didn't have a chance to cut it to size, hopefully tomorrow.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file50-1.jpg
I'm not 100% sold on this setup yet so we just tacked it in place. I would prefer these tubes to be rolled, but I don't have a roller. I may change them at Christmas but I'm not sure yet, we'll see.

Also started a drive shaft loop. I'm not going to finish it until Christmas when I get the chunk mounted and know exactly where the drive shaft will be, so it's just chilling there, not tacked in at all.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file51-1.jpg

Got the motor mounts tacked together. Dave is going to TIG those tonight along with two other 180's for the tunnel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file49-1.jpg

Pretty much finished my rear bumper mount/support tube. The chassis will be welded to this tube and it will be bolted to the rear crossmember as well as the bumper brackets. Below this tube, and centered, will be my trailer hitch. I'm building a car, but I'm a water-skier...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file52-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file53-1.jpg

Since Greg was so cool to deliver the brackets for the rear LCA's, I decided to put them together at about 12:00 midnight and tacked one side in place.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file54-1.jpg

The entire passenger side assembly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file55-1.jpg

I still have a lot of work to do on the chassis, triangulate the tunnel, and the rear LCA bars, build some down bars for the front, and a couple bars to connect to the front hoop that goes over the bell-housing (the down bars will also be welded to these two bars). I'm hoping still to get the core support finished that I'm playing with. Not a necessity, but it would be nice to get it sized right and tacked to see how it fits.

That's all for now. I'm excited for tomorrow and hopeful (expecting) to have this thing on the ground by days end. I'm running out of time...

[wellis77]

My last day of working on the car for 9 1/2 months. A lot to do to get where I want to be before I leave tomorrow morning (and I still have to pack, do laundry, some shopping, pick up a bicycle, and a bunch of other stuff too). Will I get where I want to be before I leave? Stay tuned to "Crazy American Living in Switzerland Trying to Build a Car While Living 6000+ Miles From It..." to find out.

[David Sloan]

Good luck Will. Looking good so far!

[wellis77]

4 days, 6,000+ miles, a good nights sleep, and the first day on a new job (including jet lag) and I can finally get back to updating this thread. So I asked the question (mostly of myself), will I get to my goal of having a roller before I left. The short answer to the question is yes and no. The long answer is, I could have it on the ground as a roller if one of two things, or maybe both, (1) I had a cherry picker Friday afternoon/evening and (2) I chose to take it off the table. The car is to the point where I could have taken it off the table and had a roller, I chose not to. I still have to install my coil-overs and steering rack and I have a few things I want to adjust after having put the quarter panels on. Because of that I chose to keep it on the table for the next 10 months. It was a bummer at first but I also know it was the right decision. There is no sense rushing the car just because I want to see it on the ground. With that said, here are the final pics of what we got finished.

The rear suspension is welded up and bolted on, quarter panels are back on.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file59-1.jpg

Motor mounts are in.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file58-1.jpg

Didn't really get a chance to finish playing with the core support; it was extra-curricular since I didn't plan to tackle that this trip. But I have a good start and know what I want to do with it now (for the most part).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file57-1.jpg

And I put the front end back together (sort of).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file60-1.jpg

I really didn't have a lot of time Friday to work on the car. I had to pick up a bicycle for my wife that I brought back to Switzerland, did the brakes on my sister-in-laws car, had to pack, do laundry, clean the garage, do some shopping for things to bring back to Switzerland that we can not get there, etc. Needless to say, it was more like just a half day. Still, I'm VERY happy with where the car is and what has been accomplished in such a short amount of time, especially considering I'm largely learning as I go. I have learned a TON doing this project already and if I had to do it over again, I'd probably do a bunch of things different so far, but I'm happy and excited about the next steps.

So that begs the question, what's next? Well, I'm going to be purchasing some SelectSeries RideTech coil-over shocks, a Woodward Steering rack, some AMD panels, an AAR hood and decklid (maybe fenders) and if the funds are there, a steering column, all over the course of this year. Next Christmas, I'll be mounting the shocks and rack, finishing my front crossmember, changing the motor mounts (the ones I built make it VERY difficult to remove the engine considering the engines height and setback), adjust the drivers rear suspension a bit (there must have been some warpage I didn't notice until I installed the quarter because there is ALOT of static positive camber built in), build the trans cross member, finish the back brace as well as building in some additional rigidity, then set it on the ground, roll it outside in the snow and take the first picture of the car sitting on the ground in many, many years. After this Christmas, I'm hoping to be in a position and am considering taking the car to a shop and letting them have it for a year to get the body panels hung and aligned all nice and neat then get it in primer. We'll see what happens in 10 months, but I gotta have goals.

I'm sure I have forgotten some things but that's what I've got in my head for now. I appreciate all the encouragement over the last few weeks. I also MORE than appreciate all the help I've had from some friends, Dave, Jeff, and Greg, all of which have been instrumental in their own way to help me get to where I am. This has been an awesome ride so far and after I recover from the exhaustion of working 14-16 hour days on my car, I'll be excited to get back to the U.S. and start in again. Check y'all lata!

[Crestronwizard]

Awesome build..........I have been trying to figure out the best way to weld my frame to the rockers............if you had to do it again would you do the same method? Thanks

Geoff

[wellis77]

Hey Geoff, I would do it again but mostly out of necessity. I'm 6'6" and I need all the headroom I can get. Because of that I needed to sink the floor and the only way for me to have enough room between the perimeter of the frame and the back brace for me and the seat, was to move the perimeter of the frame into the rocker. For simplicity sake it would be easier to weld to the inner rocker because I also have to modify the quarter and fender to get them to fit correctly. Moving the perimeter of the frame into the rocker gave me an extra 2 inches width which was just enough but I would have preferred to weld to the inner rocker.

[Crestronwizard]

Thanks Will,

I have to take all my rear sheetmetal off too. If I had known this was the direction I was going I would have started with a car in worse shape. Thanks for all the great info in this thread. It will prove invaluable. Have fun in Switzerland!

[wellis77]

I love it when work gets done on my junk when I'm a Gajillion miles away...

Just ordered a fiberglass hood from Glasstek. Flat bolt-on, but it's going to get some wicked love. So this is what I'm getting:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And this is what I'm doing; chopping, cutting, and molding this onto the boring Dart hood...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And after that, a few coats of this will be sprayed on it to make sure it's exactly the color I want.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file1-1.jpg

And that's it for now. Another month and a half and I should be ordering my Ridetech stuff. Then the rest of my glass stuff, then steering rack, then AMD stuff, then...

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Love the color and hood design Will. Get back here so we can get some real updates...!

[droptop73]

I love it when work gets done on my junk when I'm a Gajillion miles away...

Just ordered a fiberglass hood from Glasstek. Flat bolt-on, but it's going to get some wicked love. So this is what I'm getting:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And this is what I'm doing; chopping, cutting, and molding this onto the boring Dart hood...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And after that, a few coats of this will be sprayed on it to make sure it's exactly the color I want.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/file1-1.jpg

And that's it for now. Another month and a half and I should be ordering my Ridetech stuff. Then the rest of my glass stuff, then steering rack, then AMD stuff, then...

Before you know it it will be CHRISTmas and you'll be working on the car again! That hood is going to be cool.

[Bryce]

That hood will be sweet!

[chunger]

Nice. Love the color you've picked. What's it called?

[454bug]

Great plan for the hood Will!

Who is the manufacturer of the louvered hood?

[wellis77]

@Jeff, you know I can't wait until CHRISTmas. Will definitely be good times.

@Chunger, the color is Interlagos Blue Mica, obviously a BMW color.

@Ray, the louvered hood is a stock Viper hood. I connected with a guy who has taken hood skins from wrecked Vipers and molded them onto glass hoods for bigger Mopars. I told him about my build, showed him my rendering and he wanted to build mine as well. He has an extra skin at his shop so all he needed was my hood. Can't wait to see the hood finished, unfortunately it will only be in pictures for the next 8 1/2 months. That will have to do though.

[wellis77]

This is just going to be sexy... I can't wait to see it finished and in color.

The stock hood from Glasstek. I'm told it's a very nice, well constructed piece.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/file62-1.jpg

Scoop mocked up. Don't know how long it will be before it's finished, but I have a few months...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/file64-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/file63-1.jpg

[rjsjea]

That hood is gonna be way cool Will.....keep the updates coming on it

[ALLstrokedOUT]

That hood is just gunna be badass!! -which also fits into the whole cars melding of viper and dart-ness. Id love to do something like that with my hood, id just be concerned with rain water due to those huge louvers, are you going to put something in them or leave it all open?

[wellis77]

I can get some screens to put in the vents which I will do. Otherwise they will be open and I'll deal with the rain.

[thirdstreettito]

Bump for updates on this great build!

[Dolmaner]

more updates please

[RicerwannaB]

Awesome man, Glad to see progress!

[wellis77]

I really hate to be the king of disappointment, but unless someone miraculously shows up and starts going to town on the project, you won't see any build updates until December. Problem is the build is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the builder is in Zürich, Switzerland. Not exactly a great combination for build progress, but I can't do much about it at this point. So, outside of parts updates or some sneaky folks, this thread will likely be pretty silent for a while. Thanks for the comments though. Keeps me going the 11 months I'm away from the build.

[cobragt]

Hood will be really cool, Sucks that you can't work on it for such a long period of time. Must be really frustrating.

[wellis77]

I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product myself. It is frustrating but that is the nature of the game I'm forced to play now. I'm considering taking it to a shop and letting them have it for a year to do the bodywork and build a firewall, floor, trunk floor, and tubs. I hate to farm out work if I don't have to but, that will allow this thing to get finished faster.

[Dolmaner]

dang, thats too bad, awesome build

[chopsmitty]

Will, you know if you need help, I am always available. (cool hood by the way)

[wellis77]

I hear you Greg, I appreciate that too. I do have a couple ideas on the rear frame rail/UCA mount and parts for tubular LCA's I want to run past you. I'll send you an email sometime in the near future. Hoping to get my RideTech stuff ordered the first of next week. From there it's on to the steering rack and only a few more months before it's on the ground... I do want to connect with your friend we talked about back in March. That can wait until later this year though when the car is closer to sitting on the ground and being mobile... Thanks for checking in, hope you are doing well.

[rfalker1]

you got one sick dart man!!! But to be honest I feel your pain kind of. I am 6"7 and to be exact these cars weren't made specifically for us. Also being away in foreign country for 10 months out the year is hard, especially if you are building a car. (I am in France, and am not building my car.. Time home spent dedicated to my little girl ;) )

But hey you at least you are in switzerland, one of the most beautiful places on Earth. I love that country. If you dont mind me asking what city are you in?

P.S that hood will be sick, but with cuts like that I can assume this car will never see the rain????

[wellis77]

Hey Randal, thanks for the comments. You're right, these cars are far from built for anybody with height and I'm trying to milk every centimeter of head room I can, and I just came up with an idea to drop the drivers seat down another inch. I'm not sure how the hood is going to work with the vents and rain, but I can assure you it will see rain. It'll see everything but snow. I do know Vipers with the same vents have raced in the rain so I'm optimistic I won't have problems, but we'll see.

Obviously I can relate to being away from family, fortunately I'm with my wife so we have made our temporary home here. I am in Zürich in the German speaking region. This is a beautiful country; I am continuously amazed at the beauty when I travel and feel extremely blessed to be here. I often wonder what this place looked like before it was ever developed considering what I see everyday now; land flowing with milk and honey...

[rfalker1]

Thats awesome. I would love to live in Bern, I have a really good friend who lives there and lets me crash at her house when I come. That place is breath taking and an outdoors man dream. I wish I could bring my two mountain bikes there to do some downhilling, but I would probably kill myself to stay away. Well here is food for thought, you can always move your seat rails back, which helps considerably. Thats what I did before I started this whole process so I could fit in my car lol.
I am putting ariza racing seats in mine and going and hopefully it will allow for more room since they supposed sit lower.
Good luck with the hood though, so how do you think it will take for you to finish since you are in another world the majority of the time out the year.

[wellis77]

I've gotten into road biking since coming to Zürich and it's an amazing place to do cycling of any kind. I'm loving it! I'm already hoping, and planning, to do a cross-country bike trip next summer (2012). A friend of mine just did it and his pictures are incredible. Quite a challenge and will require quite a bit of training but I'll get there.

I had thought about moving the rails back, but I want to make sure the back seat can actually be used so I'm trying to maintain as much of a stock fore/aft seat position as possible. To help with leg room, I'm doing what I can to "sink" the seat. I'm suing Viper seats which are already a low-profile race styled seat so not much more I can do there. As for time for the build, originally I figured 5 years, now it depends on who much I want others to do and how long I stay here. I'm thinking about having a shop do the floors, wheel tubs, inner fenders, and firewall for me next year after I get it on the ground. I need to do some talking to shops and research first. I hate to hand it over to someone else to do the work when I can and want to do it, but I also want this thing done sometime and getting 2-4 weeks a year won't get it done for a long time. We'll see, but I hope to have it drivable by the time I move back to the States; not sure when that will be though so I'm flexible...

[rfalker1]

Sorry to ask a personal question, but do you have kids??? cause if not who needs a back seatsss!!!!! lol at least the one behind the driver side lol. Its a 3 passenger car. But in my camaro with longer seatrails. I fit my self at 6"7, my friend at 6"7 my other other friend at 6"4 and my other friend at 6"2, so it is possible. But if you think the viper seats will work do it!!!!

And I will tell you this, mountain bike riding and road riding are two different monsters. When it comes to mountain bike riding going down the hill will even get you tired too. If you want I could recommend some awesome bikes, that would work for your mountain bike style. Biking is my original hobby as you can tell by my little photo :thankyou:

And I say go for the floor idea, firewall minitub, especially because you still plan to paint it. And they way it would make life easier for you and the painter. No time schedule or looking at the clock waiting for. it two be done jmo. We live once, so get her done and start driving!!!!!!!

[wellis77]

No kids yet, but they're coming, sooner than later and I need to make sure there is room. Should work out okay, but time will tell. We'll see how everything goes later this year. There are a few shops on the forum here I'm considering but also some local guys so I'll do some connecting with those places, see what they think and go from there. I am so looking forward to getting back on the car later this year though.

I am all set on bikes for now. I recently picked up a pair of Cannondale SuperSix's for my wife and I. Not the best bike out there, but for my first trip into the road biking world, I"m very happy with what I have. My wife loves hers too so it's a win/win for now.

[rfalker1]

I definately agree on that, a happy wife makes life so much easier. Good luck with shop picking though, they do good work from what i see on the forum.
and I am not a road man lol, I need constant danger in my ride some I am not that well tuned in the art of road bikes. but cannondale makes great stuff

[wellis77]

A little bit of progress on the hood. Once it's finished, the builder is thinking of pulling a mold and offering them. Trying to work in the possibility of Carbon... Would be awesome! Also ordered my Ride Tech suspension last week. I didn't pick up a control system yet since I'm nowhere near ready for that and I'd like to see how the technology for controls evolves over the next couple years.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/file65-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/file66-1.jpg

[droptop73]

The hood's looking good Will. Is the raised center going to be extended to the back of the hood?

[droptop73]

No kids yet, but they're coming, sooner than later and I need to make sure there is room.

Are you telling us something here Will?

[wellis77]

The hood's looking good Will. Is the raised center going to be extended to the back of the hood?

I sure hope so, otherwise it just doesn't work. I emailed him and asked the same question. Based on what we talked about a while back, I believe that to be the case.


Are you telling us something here Will?

Nothing telling yet, but I won't be back for 6 1/2 months so you never know...

Take care Jeff, looking forward to catching up in some months.

[craigs73]

wow the hood looks great im wanting to do something similar to my nova by using another stock hood/scoop to be different than the usual cowl induction

[wellis77]

In my opinion, biased I know, this will be the baddest hood the classic Mopar world has ever seen.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/100_1644-1.jpg

[Ripped]

I like the hood design. Very unique, and should look great. Nice build, keep up the good work!

[chopsmitty]

A little bit of progress on the hood. Once it's finished, the builder is thinking of pulling a mold and offering them. Trying to work in the possibility of Carbon... Would be awesome! Also ordered my Ride Tech suspension last week. I didn't pick up a control system yet since I'm nowhere near ready for that and I'd like to see how the technology for controls evolves over the next couple years.


What ever you settle on, don't do any controls for the air suspension that monitor and adjust solely on air pressure - you won't be happy. Level sensors are the only way to go.

[wellis77]

Done and done! Ordered with the internal ride height sensors. NO WAY I'm basing it on pressure alone and NO WAY I'm hanging external sensors somewhere on my frame.

[wellis77]

The ante on my build just got upped, big time. I can't wait until Christmas!

[dusterbd13]

ok, with that teaser, you just have to share.

whats the good word? need to finish it to bring the firstborn home?

[wellis77]

Too funny Michael.

A relatively easy hint:
2 xtra holes, around 100 xtra pounds, about 150 xtra wild stalliones, 2 fangs...

[Chadly B]

Fantastic! Now I can't wait for Christmas either....

[Dolmaner]

Too funny Michael.

A relatively easy hint:
2 xtra holes, around 100 xtra pounds, about 150 xtra wild stalliones, 2 fangs...


Two extra holes (cylinders Im hoping) , more weight, more horsepower, 2 fangs... like a Viper... I hope its what I think....

[wellis77]

Will be on its way probably mid next week.

[rfalker1]

Ohhhh, that is just unfair... Grrrrr I am breathing jealousy towards Europe

[wellis77]

It is unfair. But no reason to breath jealousy here, I'm breathing jealousy toward you. You're back working on your junk man. The good times are rolling for you. Mine are just shipping.

[454bug]

Great planning and progress while your out of country Will!!

The Viper hood with the Viper Engine is just OVER the top!!! :headbang:

Come on CHRISTMAS!!!

[wellis77]

Thanks Ray. It is definitely bringing the build to a new level and completing the package. I'm excited to see it come together.

[Greasy63]

wow!

this is gonna look great!!!!!!!!!

GL w/the rest of ur build

[rfalker1]

true.. but getting stuff can be fun too... I enjoyed that part, but to continue the jealousy thing, I shall be going to work on my heap today ;).. And shall take bunches of photos