What Paint System Do you Recommend?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I'm looking for something reasonably priced, with a full line of 2k and epoxy primers, base, and clear, for a repaint on a friend's work truck. Any suggestions? My local jobber was bought out, and it seems like they jacked the prices considerably on everything! I have considered SPI, and maybe even the Summit line (though they don't have base, just an acrylic urethane single stage that can be cleared over). Any suggestions?

[elitecustombody]

Matrix automotive finishes, will blow out the water just about anything for the. money, coverage is usually achieved in two coats and AG-40 high-solids clear is amazing

[djstang1966]

i used dupont chromabase on my 66 stang with nason clear and was very happy with both but since then have been spraying primarily sherwin williams paint esp the ultra 7000 series base with there house high solids clears with great success. they also have a dimensions brand single stage that is good as long as you steer clear of the mettallics. there genisis m or gc brand single stage is also a great paint and not to badly priced... just my two cents on it!

[djstang1966]

and of course have sprayed a ton of there planet color paint and love it ... and they have a store in atlanta if your close to there.

[vintageracer]

Duplicolor Spray Cans.

That's what the guy on TV used to paint their red El Camino!

[David Sloan]

Hey Joe give me a call!
678873 6578

[rwhite_692]

I did a custom job for my brother in law on all his motorcycle tin, he went and bought all supplies and handed me a box full of Matrix stuff (base and clear, with their reducers and activator, etc). I had never used Matrix system products before and was really skeptical when he told me what it all had cost him.

I have to say, it was damn good stuff. The clear was as good as any PPG clear I have used. This was about 3 yrs ago now, still looks great. I have not been in a position to try out Matrix products on a full car job, yet.

[elitecustombody]

I did a custom job for my brother in law on all his motorcycle tin, he went and bought all supplies and handed me a box full of Matrix stuff (base and clear, with their reducers and activator, etc). I had never used Matrix system products before and was really skeptical when he told me what it all had cost him.

I have to say, it was damn good stuff. The clear was as good as any PPG clear I have used. This was about 3 yrs ago now, still looks great. I have not been in a position to try out Matrix products on a full car job, yet.


next time try Matrix AG40 High-Solids clear with slow or very slow hardener, you'll be even more impressed

[ProdigyCustoms]

We do not use it, all our stuff is higher end so we use pretty high end products. But Matrix ain't bad stuff.

[1bad87ss]

I have been using Matrix for about the past 6yrs. I use Matrix 42 clear and it sands and buffs easy and looks great. I have had excellent luck with color match.. Good stuff for cheap. Especially good for a work truck...Here is the last one I did

[rusty428cj]

All I use are SPI primers and clear in my shop. I have been using their products since 2004 with no problems.

[mm065]

All my production work is with Dupont Nason base and clear. It is reasonably priced and works well. Otherwise I'm looking for a harder more durable clear for the show car paint job on my Camaro.

[LateNight72]

SPI no longer offers basecoats, so they do not have a "full" system, unfortunately.

Reasonably priced, and a quality product? PPG's Deltron line up.

[200horse]

have you looked into automotive art? More less Vlaspar re labeled? base is second to none I would put it up against ppg,pr spray,dupont and others any days

[elitecustombody]

I used to use Valspar untill I switched to Matrix, the reason I switched from Valspar, new distributor came into town ,Kemperle,(they bought out alot of stores nationwide to cut down on competition) and since then the paint would take 5-6 coats to cover,so I couldn't deal with that,I loved using their Color-Fil tintable sealer, last time I used it, I was spraying a bumper and trim on Lightning simple white sealer over light grey primer took 6 coats and you could still see the primer, so I stopped buying everything from Kemperly alltogether and stuck with my distributor that lost his Vlaspar territory to Kemperly , I'm sure Valspar is still good stuff,but I just won't deal with the distributor

Stefan

[rusty428cj]

Even though SPI does not offer base colors I still use their primers, urethane reducer and clear. For the base I use either Diamont or Standox.

[evolution custom]

Spies Hecker is is a nice product.

[elitecustombody]

and it comes with nice price too

[Paint God]

We use Spies Hecker on all of our nice stuff (best paint on the planet but you pay for it). If we have something cheap to paint I use Matrix base coat with Transtar Euro Clear.

[bdyman]

i like spies hecker and ppg`s dbc line
but like that guy said ya pay the price/// you pay for quality

[elitecustombody]

LOL, you're paying for the name,not quality

[JRouche]

SPI no longer offers basecoats, so they do not have a "full" system, unfortunately.

Reasonably priced, and a quality product? PPG's Deltron line up.

True. But I think you can break up a painting system into two sections now with the way the epoxy primers are. So a two system paint job is as good as a "full system" job using one supplier.

First section should be all one supplier. The metal up to the final primer, right before the color coat.

So the first system consists of the primers. The DTM, high build and final epoxy with some plastic filler in there also. Many of the good epoxy primers will make a great coating for all of the color/clear coat systems out these days.

My thinking is to get a strong primer coat (multiple coatings of various primers) then shop for the color/clear coatings that suits your needs. The days of having to use one supplier for the entire process is dead IMO with the supreme epoxies out now. I dont see an issue with using a less expensive primer system, like SPI to get a solid foundation then choosing a higher priced color/clear coat system to get the appearance and durability you want. JR

[BRIAN]

I am always lost as to why guys not running a production shop would mix brands?? When you are doing 25-??? cars a week the savings adds up quickly of using lower cost products if it works. Painting one car yourself just does not make sense.

First off there is a learning curve to what products will work together. Then there is the saving associated with using common reducers and hardeners by staying within one line. Last is these products are designed to work together. HOK is a lower cost system that is geared towards custom work and their surfacers and primers and meant for high build applications.

I do not get why using an epoxy primer would help mixing systems. You can take the reducer from one mfg and mix it in anothers and it will curl up in the cup. Again used as an epoxy they are reduced one way and then as a sealer usually over reduced. So if you are using one system as your surfacer in between another brand epoxy I fail to see the reasoning or savings?

Almost all mfgs have direct metal surfacers that can be used as sealers. PPG NCP line is also an etch that can go from bare metal to seal using one product. HOK also has epoxy surfacers that are designed for higher build. If you do mix just know there will be a learning curve and additional product needed. Mixing can work say when using certain surfacers that aren't avail in production mfg's lines.

To save maybe $2-300 on a paint job that you are saving thousands on by doing yourself why take the risk or additional hassle?

[rusty428cj]

Since 2004 I have been using RM Diamont base and everything else from SPI with no problems in my shop. I use SPI epoxy, SPI Urethane primer, SPI reducer in the Diamont base and than clear with SPI Clear.

[JRouche]

Then there is the saving associated with using common reducers and hardeners by staying within one line.

I do not get why using an epoxy primer would help mixing systems. You can take the reducer from one mfg and mix it in anothers and it will curl up in the cup.

I think you are thinking "mixing systems" was meaning using different chemicals, like reducers and solvents from one supplier to another. I dont think anyone was going to do that.

Once an epoxy primer coating has set up and has de-gassed it is neutral. About as neutral as a primer base can be (not like etch primers). Perfect for the top coats. Any top coats.

I dont think anyone was talking about mixing the wet components from one manufacture with another.. JR

[Paint God]

LOL, you're paying for the name,not quality

Your funny!

In some cases this is true, but usually not with Automotive paint.

You need to look at it this way. Paint is nothing more than plastic that you are applying to a car in a liquid form. What makes it a liquid is solvent (or now in most of California water) and once that liquid evaporates what is left is a combination of pigment (the color) and resin (the plastic part). It is all a matter of what kind of resin and pigment is being used. The best pigments and resins are 100% organic straight from the earth. Chemists have made up synthetic resins to reduce costs but the downside is that they are not as clear, shiny, and don't last as long. The problem with synthetic pigments is that they dont cover as well (meaning you need more coats).

The American companies such as Dupont and PPG focus primarily on a price point. To achieve this they use a mixture of organic and synthetic resins and pigments. The price point is important since their primary customer is the American Auto Manufacturing industry. Since they make the paints for the factory's they also are the leaders in the collision industry.

The high end European companies (such as Spies Hecker, Glasso, Sikkens, etc) use 100% organic pigments and resins. When you spray the stuff you see the difference right away because the base coat will usually cover in two coats (even on stubborn colors like pearl reds). All of your cheaper stuff will take twice as much to cover so this usually closes the price gap quite a bit. When it comes to the clear the biggest difference will be the 100% organic resin. Take a pint of your less expensive clear, put it in a clear container, and sit it next to a pint of Spies Hecker clear. The first thing you will notice is that the cheaper stuff will have a yellowish tint to it compared to the Spies Hecker clear which will look crystal clear. That yellow color is the synthetic resin. When you spray two cars side by side the Spies clear will look a little sharper and the color will have more vibrance because of this.

i learned from experience when I worked in the collision industry I worked in a shop that had both PPG and Spies Hecker. The reason we had Spies Hecker was because the shop was part of the local Mercedes/Porsche dealer. When we we were painting one of the German cars I would spray Spies and if it was an American car I used PPG. Every once in a while I would run out of the PPG clear so I would be forced to use the Spies Clear on a newer American car. Lets say I was spraying a front fender. If I did not put some flattening agent in the Spies clear it would be noticeably shinier and would be a problem.

Now there are some exceptions. House of Kolor uses pure resins and pigments. This is why the stuff looks so outraqeous. PPG has a "Vibrance" line and Dupont has "Hot Hues" and both of these are better in their organic to synthetic mixtures, but still fall short of House Of Kolor and the european stuff.

In my 20+ years of custom painting I have drawn this conclusion.

If you are going to spend a few hundred hours of your time, or tens of thousands of dollars to have someone else paint your car, what is a few hundred extra dollars to put the best paint on your car?:enguard:

[Paint God]

As far as mixing product lines within the same job, If you have decades of experience and or recommendations from someone who does I would not recommend it. Thats not to say that I dont do it. The problem lies when you do have a product failure. If you use a high quality paint and it fails prematurely the manufacturer will typically stand behind and warranty it. Spies Hecker is amazing this way. When this happens they will scrape a peace of paint off the car and send it to their lab. The lab will tell them exactly what compounds are present, what cologne the painter was wearing, and what he had for lunch. If it comes back that you were mixing with outside products then you are on your own.

I recently moved my paint shop to an area where I have no regulation on what type of paints or solvents I use. When I was under Rule 45 (low VOC standards) I was constantly struggling with "Urethane Roll". This is that slight little waviness that you get with Urethane clear that you just cant rub out. This is caused by a chemical that is put in the solvent named Oxall. Oxall is designed to make the solvent in the paint heavy so it will sink in and get trapped under the surface. This stops about 50% of the solvent from escaping into the atmosphere. This lowers the VOC into the air, but makes your paint a little wobbly (this is a technical painters term). So my solution was to bootleg (another technical term) a non compliant solvent in from a non-disclosed supplier that was from another manufacturer. If you understand what the reducer is doing in any given product then you can substitute any of the ingredients as long as they do the same thing. Reducers have so may properties (evaporation, accumulation, excelerants,catalyst, chemical reaction to other products, etc) that substituting can be risky business. The same is true for hardeners.

My recommendation? Stick to the book.