polyester primer surfacers

[BRIAN]

I know there are some other body guys on this site and I was just curious what everybody is using for high build poly surfacers. I know nobody like to say they spray the lower cost Evercoat or Nason stuff but some work better than the big buck Spies or what have you stuff. Anyway I am always open to trying newer products. Anybody using something that is working well?? Newer Evercoat G2? I usually spray over either epoxy or etch so nothing going over bare metal. Thanks

[68protouring454]

i am using standoxs, polyster primer, it builds awesome, about 50 mils in 5 coats, sand great, i usually block with 18-220, then urethane prime and block sand with 4-500, but i have used evercoats stuff and it does work fine, but i do not have alot of experience with it, with the cheaper products i would just let it sit or bake it good
jake

[69Rathead]

Check out some replies I got on my Evercoat Featherfill G2 questions, (Within my first 10 or 15 posts) A user Dlinson replied with some good info as he has used it. I ended up getting something different as I did not need as high a build as that offers also I wanted run around with my car primered for awhile and that stuff can soak up moisture pretty good. Hope this info helps!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I know nobody like to say they spray the lower cost Evercoat or Nason stuff but some work better than the big buck Spies or what have you stuff.

I am a big advocate for good materials at a reasonable price and not over paying for materials. I have no problem admitting it. Almost all paint products in this day, except maybe some cheapo knock offs, are excellent products. I personally use Sherwin Williams which is price comparatively with PPG, Dupont, etc. Since 87 I have used S and W exclusively with only one failure ever, and they paid me cash money, full retail to fix it. Where talking $6000 15 years ago. Nobody EVER gets materials AND labor when a product fails. That is simply because they do not have those problems.

8 years ago when I quit painting for a while, I hired a German painter, I mean as in straight from Germany, that was a huge Spies Hecker fan. He was great, and my material bills more then doubled immediately and he did not produce anything any better then we always had. When I got tired of the ridiculous paint bills, I forced him, and I mean forced under threat of firing, to use S and W. We parted as friends and long story short, I do not see him using that high dollar stuff unless it is a car from the mother land.

Big names like Evercoat make good stuff. Spies also makes good stuff no doubt, but as a savoy buyer I HATE to spend more then I have to for equal results. I would rather pas the savings to my customers as we always bill materials on a per job basis.

Now if it requires a full custom color, that may be a different story. Maybe HOC or Alsa.

[BRIAN]

Frank does SW have a poly primer? My supplier actually carries SW. I usually stick with a system and yes I am one to use the name brand stuff straight through. I agree that there are just as good products out there and I do stray at times. I have also been told about Standox but they are not a low cost line by any means? It is also interesting that different parts of the country use different product.
I am helping buddy knock out some low end classic car paint jobs and was just looking for different ideas. Want something super thick that doesn't shrink? Figured this was good opurtunity to try some new products for higher end jobs. Thanks Brian

[68protouring454]

brian it is expensive, but you will use 2/3rds of what you will use of any other, same goes with base coats etc, i can do an overall with 3 quarts, try that with dupont etc
believe me body shops that use spies/standox are not losing money on materials doing collision work, we all get the same money per painting hr for materials, and no one out there is gonna use spies/standox if it meant losing money, i can get two overalls out of 1 gallon of standox clear, i used to go thru one gallon per overall with dupont, it is more money for the diy'er to get set up,the products are better, the urethane primer can be sanded in 45 mins, under 3 mils, and not clog 4-500 grit, and it does not shrink up 3 months later, i have seen my paint bills go up, but i get more out of the product, and on a yearly basis's my total paint cost is about the same, maybe a little more, few hundred, but thats on 10-15 kin paint


anyways good luck
jake

[BRIAN]

I more than understand what you are saying but I was looking for lower cost products that worked for these particular jobs. Actually I just did search of just about all the data sheets and Standox and Spies have the highest build. I was surprised that Evercoat was actually not that high of a build as I thought. Like you said I will stick to what works and I agree that in the end most cheap products cost more in the end. I do use Spies and am curious as to the cost comparison between Spies and Standox. Thanks and back to sanding for me. Brian

[ProdigyCustoms]

Brian, I do not use poly fillers. I am a self etch / urethane primer guy. I just do not need the kind of build up poly's provide. A great product with a real low cost is S and W Dimension line. The bases and clears all use the same reducer, which is not expensive. the base is 1/3 the cost of their Ultra 7 line. It does not cover as well, but it does not take 3 times as much either. The clear lays out super slick and is about $100 for a 7 quart kit. 3 coats and you can sand and buff in 48 hours. Buffs nice.

Also, S and W has a low cost urethane prime, the Select line that seems to work pretty damn good. I am using it on the 62 I am doing for my interior guy as he is on a super tight budget. One thing that is very nice, is not only is cost low at $80 for a 7 quart kit, but it goes right over bare metal with no zinc required.
I do not have any long term experience with the Select line, but it builds nice and blocks awesome, and seems to bite metal.

Jake, I know you are a higher dollar, higher build guy, and I respect that. As far as collision shops losing or making money. My ex painter Bob went to a Chevy dealer when we parted ways. They were shooting Standox and getting killed with material bills. He switched them to S and W, they are making money now on materials, instead of losing money. He switch to a Nissan dealer now, same thing, switching from Glasurit to S and W.

You may want to consider trying some Dimension, especially on you collision. With you new booth, you will be set. Do me a favor, see what your price is on 2004 Corvette Millenium Yellow. Do not remember the code. it was $117 for a gallon of Dimension when i priced it. $330 in Ultra 7. I am real curious to know what it cost in Standox. Reducer for Dimension is 1 to 1, and is $22 gallon making the base $137 for 2 gallons sprayable

BTW, I hate Dupont also. Although I cannot say I have given them a chance in the last 15 years.

BTW, how is that killer booth anyway?

[68protouring454]

i here ya, maybe stuff costs more here, or dupont is just to expensive for the crap, all standox base coats are 86 bucks a quart, very few maybe 90 a quart due to metallic or high pearl content, black and white are like 65 a quart, mixes 2-1 and i have never used more than 2.5 quarts or so on anything from a rice mobile to a camaro, the urethane primer is like 120 for a gallon, probaly 150-160 for 5-6 quarts sprayable, it mixes 4-1/20-30% reducer, everything in standox uses same reducer and hardner, i can paint a car for pretty much same money as dupont, BUT, BUT, thats only in materials used, i have 1/2 gallongclear left, 3/4 gallon urethane primer left etc, my supplier carrys s/w also , and they can get screaming high on some base coat colors, i did a durango, that was a brownish pearl effect, was 84 a quart in standox, 148 a quart in s/w, standox clears are fussy, they are thick and need to mixed right, where as at 4-1 dupont/s/w etc, they are real thin and can be sprayed on with little thought, that is my biggest dislike at first with standox, but i have it figured out now, and with the booth it will be better, no ye back at all.
booth is coming, inside is all stripped and prepped for new paint, previous dealership just repainted it rather than using spraymask, also stripped front and side door so it would look really nice, booth is up and running, but it needs a new electronic gas valve, old one must have stuck from sitting for one year, i am going to take it apart and clean it, new one is 400 bucks, and booth guy already gross sexually contacted me for 4500 more than we thought, but the lighting is killer, and it moves some air, changes the air in the booth every 3 seconds, has bake mode where exhaust fan shuts off, then dampers shut and it recirculates the air so you do not lose the heat.
anyway i will have gas valve wednesday, pilot works etc, so i will just have to install valve, i will send some pics your way, take it easy i will check on the clear etc price
jake