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View Full Version : Rollbar nightmare, cut it out of the car today



NOT A TA
01-03-2010, 09:22 PM
About 3 years ago I made a deal with a guy named Ralph in Fairfield CT to weld in a Jegs 6 point in my Malibu I was repainting. Ralph talked a good game about a shop he had that he'd closed so he could go help his dad with a much bigger family business. He'd sold his race car etc. and said he has plans to open another chassis shop in southwestern CT eventually. He would install the bar as a side job in the business garage after work and on a weekend and should finish it within a week. I traded him goods for services and gave him the goods before I even gave him the car. He had been a regular customer at my store so I didn't expect any problems.

Then the stories/excuses started, broken hand, welder broken, and on and on. I telephoned often to see what was going on and there was always another excuse, welding slag in eye, death in family,until he stopped taking my calls. During the next 2 years the police were involved on 3 different occasions some of the excuses were verified as real. One being when they found him in a hospital in Boston. One when he was in jail.

Meanwhile during the same timeframe, my truck/enclosed trailer with a car in it and all my tools in it was stolen while I was moving. And then the following year the new (used) home was cleaned out by burglars and destroyed like in a movie while I was at the old home selling it. So my focus on the Malibu got sidetracked a couple times and I wasn't as persistant.

I left message after message bombarding his phones. He wasn't answering or calling back. Finally the car showed up in the parking lot at my workplace with the keys on top of a tire with no word from him.

The job was horrible. One of the worst looking hack jobs I've ever seen. It wasn't anywhere near safe enough to pass tech even if a half blind guy was doing it. I was incredibly disappointed in the job and the damage he'd done to my car.

I took some pictures of the lousy work and loaded the car into my trailer (trailer recovered damaged and without contents.) and moved to the home that had been robbed. I was so fustrated with everything I didn't even look at the car for a year. A couple weeks ago I finally unloaded it and decided there was no possible way to save the bar and that eventually the floor pans will need to be fixed. Funding to replace floor sections and get another bar are not available right now so I just cut the bar out to reduce the possibility of damage from the bar. Some of the parts were so poorly welded that I ripped them out of the car with my bare hands!!! Yes I took video of that and if I can figure out how to post them I will.

The pictures tell the story. Sheetmetal/pop rivet work was done by Ralph. I still can't figure out why. And why would a welder/fabricator pop rivet? We'll never know. Crack maybe? Well obviously as you'll see he wasn't a welder or fabricator and in fact had probably never done a bar, cage or anything remotely similar.

It's embarassing to admit I let this happen to me but if this post stops someone else from dealing with Ralph it will be worth it.

Here's what I found when I got the car back

First thing I notice is that the welds look horrible and that some of the welds have been ground! That won't pass tech!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/maliburollbardisaster020-1.jpg

So I peel back the carpet to see what lurks at floor level to find this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/maliburollbardisaster010-1.jpg

But wait a second that doesn't look like its weld, why no, it's silicone in the coloring of metal!!!! And underneath that its worse welding work than the welds I first saw.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/maliburollbardisaster015-1.jpg

Well I move to the rear where the main hoop is expecting more crappy welding covered with silicone but in the rear I found a bonus! He'd hacked the floors enough (somehow) to need patching. And he pop riveted thin sheetmetal to cover the holes! What welder pop rivets floorpans??? He claims the floors were rusted out and couldn't be welded to. What rust? (please note that the floors have not been repainted since they left the factory)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu062-1.jpg

I walk around to the rear of the car and notice the down bars into the trunk are really close together. But wait they're also off center and both of them are leaning to the side! on top of that they're kinked where they're bent at the rear shelf.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/maliburollbardisaster001-1.jpg

Having seen how he burned through the floors I'm thinking he's lucky he didn't blow the car up when he burned through the trunk floor knowing the welding wouldn't be any better. And as long as I'm here I might as well see how bad it is right? So I pull back the trunk mat and find he's added some weight there for me. Probably to help me plant the tires on launch. Or maybe he just felt like making pyramids? Oh nooo, I get it, he cut the tubing too short!!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu065-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu067-1.jpg

At that point I closed the trunk and just walked away in disgust. I was so mad I couldn't even call him to leave a message. he'd had my car over 2 years and the rollbar was junk, he'd hacked up all sections of the floor and the trunk. A few days later I got him on the phone and just blasted him. I told him he had no clue what he was doing and he was lucky I wasn't the type of person to seek revenge and that he better not work on other peoples cars or he'll run into the wrong person one day. I was moving very far away so there would be no point in trying to go after him through the courts.

NOT A TA
01-03-2010, 09:25 PM
So I decide that todays the day to cut the bar out. I cut the passenger side door bar first near the main hoop and with a couple wiggles it pops right off the plate welded to the floor. Didn't even flex the floor a little doing it. Imagine if I ever got hit from the side or rolled the car! That tube would have flown right off and been swinging around in the car!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu057-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu058-1.jpg

I made short work of the other tubes in the passenger compartment with a sawzall then headed to the pyramids. There were only a few spots welded on the drivers side one and only on 2 sides so I cut them with a cutoff tool and poped the pyramid off of the floor.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu068-1.jpg

On the passenger side I decided to play and see how strong the pyramid was welded to the floor. So after the down tube was cut off I gave the stub that was left a tug to see how solid it was. Surprise Surprise!! The pyramid split in half where the plates were welded together! A few cuts with the cutoff tool and the rest of the base came free of the trunk floor.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/81Malibu073-1.jpg

If I'd left this rollbar in this car and ever had an accident it would have been more of a liability than an asset. The pipes that would let loose would be flying around in the car and could cause serious damage. His incompetance put my health and maybe even life in danger. There's no excuse for that.

Vegas69
01-03-2010, 09:47 PM
Wow....he's got about as much talent as a blind man.

67 ls1 vert
01-03-2010, 10:18 PM
WOW JOHN, that's truly amazing. I started laughing at the pyramid. Sorry, no offense.
I hope you didn't get ripped off to bad. It really looks like this guy was into drugs with tricks like that.

CarlC
01-03-2010, 10:46 PM
You should go and beat Ralph silly with the remnants of his work.

78 Type-LT
01-03-2010, 11:19 PM
:jawdrop:

Yoda4561
01-04-2010, 02:15 AM
Wow that sucks dude, I was wondering why I didn't see you there at MileMarker 1 yesterday, figured you just showed up in a car I didn't recognize.

elacruze
01-04-2010, 03:29 AM
That's a first-rate tragedy. It adds to my phobia of having other people do work for me if I haven't known them forever.

Yelcamino
01-04-2010, 04:26 AM
Wow! I think that's the worst welding job I've ever seen! It's too bad you got ripped off by that fool but fortunate that you found the poor quality work before it was too late!

Bow Tie 67
01-04-2010, 06:59 AM
Elmer's glue would have worked better.

NOT A TA
01-04-2010, 07:02 AM
Wow....he's got about as much talent as a blind man.
Over the 2 years one eye got welding slag in it and the other had poped out of its socket when the cops found him in a hospital.

By thetime I paid for the Jegs kit, labor, 2 years registration and insurance, and the new battery he killed it was about $1,500.00-$2,000.00. Could have had a really nice custom bar installed by a good shop for that, AND had my car for those years without all the drama.

I have to admit I seriously considered putting a piece of the bar through his front window the day I got the car back.

I normally do almost all the work on my cars myself. I could have welded it better myself but feel bars and cages should be done by people who really know what they're doing. My life may depend on it. My welder was in my trailer with most of my tools when it got stolen so now I can't even fix the floors. Anyone needing a bar or cage in the SW CT area should go see Joe at JW Racing and Fabrication where I got the cage for The 14 Car done.

69stang
01-04-2010, 07:55 AM
WOW! I don't know what's worse, this or the motorcycle sidecar mounting someone posted about on weldingweb.com.

Samckitt
01-04-2010, 08:02 AM
Wow that is really amazing. Amazing that someone would push that sh!tty work on as a finished job. I just can't believe it.

lilian
01-04-2010, 11:18 AM
now you know why he is out of business ......:idea: :machine:

NOT A TA
01-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Wow that is really amazing. Amazing that someone would push that sh!tty work on as a finished job. I just can't believe it.

Sad part is I think he actually thought he did a good job. It obviously took more time for him to do such a poor job than it would have to do a better job if he knew what he was doing. Patch panels, drilling and pop riveting, cutting layers for the pyramids......

Taman
01-04-2010, 04:21 PM
Launch like an Egyption.

6'9"Witha69
01-04-2010, 04:27 PM
That totally blows.

obengston
01-04-2010, 04:34 PM
wow

HotRod47
01-04-2010, 04:39 PM
That is so scary it isn't even funny! Although I do have to admit to a chuckle at the site of the pyramids!

Are you still in Connecticut?? Sorry to hear about all your losses. between the house, car/trailer etc. Man what a rough year or so.

jpdeuce
01-04-2010, 05:52 PM
At first I laughed but it really makes me furious that someone would take advantage of a person like that. What give this idiot the idea that he could do this job to start with?

BonzoHansen
01-04-2010, 05:59 PM
You should go and beat Ralph silly with the remnants of his work.

that was the 1st thing I thought when I saw the door bar. go beat him with it.

NOT A TA
01-04-2010, 06:49 PM
That is so scary it isn't even funny! Although I do have to admit to a chuckle at the site of the pyramids!

Are you still in Connecticut?? Sorry to hear about all your losses. between the house, car/trailer etc. Man what a rough year or so.

Been rough the past 4 years. Moved to FL finally. After battling with the insurance company about the house for over a year (while still paying mortgage taxes utilities etc for it) I finally caved and took the settlement because I was living (year round) in a friends summer home she was nice enough to let me borrow. I'd already taken a deposit on my CT home when I found out the FL house was destroyed and everything I owned was gone. Lawyer said I had to follow through with the sale or risk lawsuit.

The settlement was only enough money to get the demolition, mold remediation and sheetrock work done, no trim, paint, floors fixtures, appliances, kitchen or bathrooms. But at least then it wasn't a health threat and I could go in the house. That took another 6 months. Then I left CT and came to FL. I stayed in a hotel for a couple days and put a tub toilet and shower in one bath so I could live here. Kitchen has a shop style tub sink and a piece of plywood on two stacks of tires with a cube fridge, microwave, coffee pot, and a hot plate. Been a year now and
I should decide what to do with the house.

Then I went to the track! LOL Figured the house wasn't going anywhere anyway and all I have left is some of the cars.

I haven't figured out what I should do about the house. Because of the drop in home values and the damage that needs to be repaired I'm upside down on the mortgage by quite a bit even though I put a lot more money down than was necessary when I bought it and made upgrades before the house was cleaned out and then flooded. Good thing I wasn't married or had a family when it all occured or I'd hear a lot of complaints.

gearheads78
01-04-2010, 06:55 PM
I have no words. Sorry but I did LOL a little at the ballast he added though.

MoonMan
01-04-2010, 07:44 PM
Unfortunately this happens too often. A very similar thing happened with my Dad's, now my, car. He traded a guy his trailer and would pay a balance on the remaining work. After probably two years and many "missing" parts he yanked his car out of the shop. Look at the pic of this rollcage work....how do you get a windshield in here???

Needless to say, knowing most of the work would have been shoddy I started from scratch with the car.

35124

DRJDVM's '69
01-04-2010, 08:32 PM
All I can say is WOW......on my very first pass with a welder, I did better than that....holy cow. It looks like he did it blindfolded.....

I've never been a big fan of the "trade" system unless its a "hand me this and I'l hand you that".... the "I'll do this labor for this part" seems to end badly so many times...

be glad its only <$2k..... that 2 years is another story.

MrQuick
01-04-2010, 11:34 PM
hate to say but its not the first time I saw fab work of that caliber.



vince

John Wright
01-05-2010, 05:04 AM
Goodness Gracious! Those pics are.......well, I don't know what to call them.

The Stickman
01-05-2010, 11:15 AM
You have no idea how much this story pains me. Here's to hoping things get better for you.

monza
01-05-2010, 11:53 AM
The pyramids placed in the middle of the trunk have to be the worst auto fabrication I think I've ever seen!? He should get an award, truly amazing.

jason@gmachine
01-05-2010, 12:25 PM
wow.

wmhjr
01-05-2010, 12:50 PM
Man, that is incredible. I hope you have MUCH better luck in the future. What is scary is how it makes you wonder about some of the work that might be out there on the road or at the track.....

Jim Nilsen
01-05-2010, 01:43 PM
I have taught people to weld better than that in just 10 minutes of training. I can't think of worse welds than that ever from someone who said they could weld.

Be glad you didn't have to drag your car out of his garage with a fight.

Now the real cage can begin.

TT302Z28
01-05-2010, 02:13 PM
Hmmm....silicon instead of welding! I think we are on to something.

NOT A TA
01-05-2010, 03:09 PM
Man, that is incredible. I hope you have MUCH better luck in the future. What is scary is how it makes you wonder about some of the work that might be out there on the road or at the track.....

There are people driving around with bars and cages made with exhaust tubing. The welds are better though! LOL

NOT A TA
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I have taught people to weld better than that in just 10 minutes of training. I can't think of worse welds than that ever from someone who said they could weld.

Be glad you didn't have to drag your car out of his garage with a fight.

Now the real cage can begin.

At one point I started telling him he could just give the car back and just call it even, my loss. He said he wanted to finish the job.

There are no funds for another bar or cage, the problem is now I have solid back seats which should only be used with a bar and harnesses that can only be used with a bar. The likelyhood of rolling the car on the street and crushing the roof is pretty slim so I can live with the risk of the solid seats but I have to figure out something for seatbelts.

I've been working on the car every day and the exteriors almost done. I've almost finished cutting/grinding the bar stubs out of the interior and will just leave the plates he welded to the floor for now. You know I'm gonna want to drive it.

1994 Python
01-05-2010, 06:30 PM
Sorry to see those pictures of the "wonderful" work. I have done some stuff on the barter system. Personally been luckier than that. I haven't always been happy with the work, but none of it made me feel that that I would be in danger. Hope this year is better for you.

ryfrat
01-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Please tell his name.I'm looking to do a roll bar in my car and don't want to come across him.That is just awful.My luck has been bad with my build the 3 machine shops that I've been to suck,but not that bad.

NOT A TA
01-05-2010, 09:07 PM
Please tell his name.I'm looking to do a roll bar in my car and don't want to come across him.That is just awful.My luck has been bad with my build the 3 machine shops that I've been to suck,but not that bad.

The bad guys name is Ralph and he's in Fairfield county in CT.

If you want a really nice job done, try JW Racing and Fabrication in Seymour CT. They did the cage and stuff in my Firebird and did a fantastic job. http://www.jwracing-fab.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=191 Click on their home page to surf around their site.

ryfrat
01-07-2010, 01:33 PM
The bad guys name is Ralph and he's in Fairfield county in CT.

If you want a really nice job done, try JW Racing and Fabrication in Seymour CT. They did the cage and stuff in my Firebird and did a fantastic job. http://www.jwracing-fab.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=191 Click on their home page to surf around their site.

Thanks I'll check him out.Wish I was in sunny FL right now we been getting hammered with snow.

LONE*STAR
01-07-2010, 09:34 PM
I think the cage turned out petty good, I dont understand what all the fuss is about... sarcasm

WS6
01-08-2010, 04:52 AM
John, considering all you have been through the last 4 years, you sir have tremendous perseverance. I know this car doesn't help the situation but I also know you'll get through it and it will be alright in the end. Just also be glad you looked at the work and didn't think it was a good job. Think about all the people out there that are too ignorant to know they've been ripped off.

Charley Lillard
01-08-2010, 06:12 AM
Pyramids were great. Sorry about your problem but it was a great read.

rwhite_692
01-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Those pyramids...just...wow. It's like an abstract art tribute to the Myans.

Given the level of workmanship that he applied, I'm surprised that he didn't find a way to add wooden elements into the project. Probably ran out of time.

Sorry to hear and hope things get back on track for you.

LONE*STAR
01-09-2010, 02:00 PM
Those pyramids...just...wow. It's like an abstract art tribute to the Myans.

Given the level of workmanship that he applied, I'm surprised that he didn't find a way to add wooden elements into the project. Probably ran out of time.

Sorry to hear and hope things get back on track for you.


maple would of been nice

wmhjr
01-09-2010, 03:46 PM
maple would of been nice

Nah, if that shop would have used wood, it would have been Balsa from the looks of their work.

Jim Nilsen
01-09-2010, 06:42 PM
Nah, if that shop would have used wood, it would have been Balsa from the looks of their work.

And shimmed up with post-it notes !

NOT A TA
01-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Nah, if that shop would have used wood, it would have been Balsa from the looks of their work.

The rollbar wasn't installed by a shop. Ralph had a shop previously and said he had intentions of opening another shop in the future. The possibility of him opening a shop in the future is what prompted me to post about the horrible work he did on my car. Hopefully even if he does open a shop someone might recall this thread and prevent potential customers from this forum from getting low quality work like the job that was done on my car.

E.rodz
01-10-2010, 08:39 PM
wow this looks alot worse than my welds when I was 14 years old and barrowed a welder and did not know you were supose to were a helmet.I learned 2 things that day welding flash realy hurts! and I needed someone to show me how to weld.looks like you have had some bad luck to all you can do is hold your head high take a breath and just keep treking foward.hope thing go better for you this year.

Declawed69
01-10-2010, 09:41 PM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Wow.... I feel for you, I'd be absolutely furious if someone was trying to pass those booger welds off as professional. That's just scary that someone could do that on something as important as a roll bar.

MonzaRacer
01-13-2010, 07:18 PM
I think you could have used Fusor and JB Weld Putty and done better, more permanent work, wow.
Heck if I grind a weld Ill reweld it after grinding old filler out, but I dont thin my works weld ever looked that bad.