Fender Flares for your Car.

[tyoneal]

To Everyone:

<EDIT>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To All:

I was really just kidding on the choice of:

"Not sure, it depends on what my wife likes, I will ask her if I can."

Please, if you wouldn't mind, give a honest answer.

Thanks,

Ty
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<EDIT>

My favorite cars on this site are, "The Performers". (The ones that spend time tuning their Suspension in search of better performance on the track)

Most can fit up to a 275 mm tire, "If", they are running a aftermarket subframe. While certainly better than stock, the ability to add more width would certainly give people an extra tool in their efforts to run a sustained, "g", or better in cornering ability. (With Street Tires)

Seeing some of the recent cars being made with Flared Fenders has apparently exposed a niche on this site. However, I would rather have them made in either Fiberglass or Carbon Fiber.

I contacted D!ck Guldstrand's Shop and noticed as part of his product line, he sells the, "Real", fender flares for the L-88 Corvette.

Here is the link for the flares with pricing. These are just Flares done for the L-88, the flares I have been speaking with them about would be fitting for the first Generation Camaro. I had posted this picture so:

a) You would be able to see they had done Flares before.

b) You could see at least how much these flares cost.

c) You would have a reference for the materials they woke with.

http://www.guldstrand.com/scripts/pr...p?idproduct=45
========================================
Below is part of the letter I sent, and their response.

Hello:

I am finishing up my designing of my '69 Camaro. I really want to run some flared fenders on it. Having someone do it in metal is nice but not practical, however a tasteful fiberglass, or CF Flare, or complete Flared Fenders would be the best. There are some us at, www.lateral-g.net, that are asking people to supply such parts.

As you know the Early Camaro's don't have nearly the aftermarket support that the early Mustangs do. I would like for you to consider this opportunity.

Can you supply us some fenders with flares built into them? The 1969 Camaro is by far the favorite, followed by the 67 and 68, as far a, 'Pro-Touring', or, 'Trans Am', Style builds. If I can help get at least a minimum number of people that would be on board and willing to buy sets of these would this help?

I think these could be a real good product line for you given your history. I know there are many people who see you as a somewhat, 'Hero', in early Camaro history. So I don't think you would have a difficult time finding buyers for these, as long as they are well done and tasteful.

I am working with a Rendering Artist and I am at a stand still because I need to find a source for these, and I don't want to have metal ones made. I plan to drive my car and I want some pieces that I can replace easily and that are lighter than the stock pieces.

Is there anyway I can convince you to consider this as part of your product line?
============
<Cut>
I listed some links from several websites to illustrate the types of parts currently being made, and some links from Forums that discuss flared Fenders.
<Cut>
============
Please give this some thought. I know if you had these for sale along with a Certificate with your real autograph, people would be very drawn to your business for these.

I would gladly be your first. I will even put money down early.

I would be happy to start a poll on these websites as for interest in these products. I think you would be encouraged. Just ask me and I will get them going.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,

Ty O'Neal
====================
Here is the response:

Thanks for the compliments and your interest.

Our initial reaction is that with the correct negative offset wheels and tires the 67-69 Camaros can be made to pull over 1.05 lateral G. without touching the stock body work. Since this is in excess of the new Camaros, we wonder if you are attempting to flare the wells for appearance rather than performance. Please advise further as to your performance goal. We would have a possible interest, but would have to see at least 20-25 solid orders with deposits.

Regards J.Freeman for D!ck Guldstrand
=====================

I would like to know if there is any, "REAL", interest in buying some Flared Fenders from D!ck Guldstrand's Company.

I am on board myself, as long as the quality and appearance are good.

Please give some input. I REALLY want to know how many WOULD buy a set, "IF", Price vs. Quality were in line with each other.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

Ty O'Neal

[Rick Dorion]

Ty, I might be but some price point would be helpful. Another benefit is better/maximizing braking which is my focus for the street.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

they should make those extended fenders like the ones they are doing on Track Rat... THAT would be more well received..

[joejaze]

they should make those extended fenders like the ones they are doing on Track Rat... THAT would be more well received..

I second this motion...

[Bryce]

the link didnt work for me. so here ya go.

http://www.guldstrand.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=45

[silver69camaro]

Some aftermarket subframes can take up to 295mm tires (like ours), but sometimes I wonder, what's the point?

If it's for looks, that's understandable (if it's done right, like you say).

If it's for performance, I have two issues:
1. Scrub: Not a real big deal, but a street driven car with high scrub isn't very fun.
2. Overall feasability: Let's face it, a well-built car with 245mm R-compound tires will have more handling capability than 99% of the people on this board can use. If you are building a true race car (be honest here), go with the largest you can. If a street/track day car, use a modest R-compound; it will heat up faster and be more affordable.

A couple track days will pretty much eat up an entire set of tires. Let's do that math:

Dude #1: Using 295mm front and 335mm rear, Mich PS2s. Cost: $1600 @ Tire Rack. Don't forget: brake pads: $75, half rotor life: $75, entry fee: $200. Total for one track day: $1950

Dude #2: 245mm front and 285 rear Hooser R6: Cost: $1225 @ Tire rack. $75 for pads and rotor life, and $200 for entry. Total: $1575.

That's $400 less, not to count entry fees for more lapping days. I'd bet more money you'd have more fun on hot, sticky tires than wide street rubber.

If you are indeed building a real race car, and you are a novice driver, I would consider buying a Miata.

[Tom Welch]

well put, and very true in my severely limited experience.

[ace_xp2]

Well, why run ps2s when you can run hoosiers?
And since R6 hoosiers in 295 and 335 are 1248.00, The price difference isn't really that great.

[tyoneal]

Some aftermarket subframes can take up to 295mm tires (like ours), but sometimes I wonder, what's the point?

If it's for looks, that's understandable (if it's done right, like you say).

If it's for performance, I have two issues:
1. Scrub: Not a real big deal, but a street driven car with high scrub isn't very fun.
2. Overall feasability: Let's face it, a well-built car with 245mm R-compound tires will have more handling capability than 99% of the people on this board can use. If you are building a true race car (be honest here), go with the largest you can. If a street/track day car, use a modest R-compound; it will heat up faster and be more affordable.

A couple track days will pretty much eat up an entire set of tires. Let's do that math:

Dude #1: Using 295mm front and 335mm rear, Mich PS2s. Cost: $1600 @ Tire Rack. Don't forget: brake pads: $75, half rotor life: $75, entry fee: $200. Total for one track day: $1950

Dude #2: 245mm front and 285 rear Hooser R6: Cost: $1225 @ Tire rack. $75 for pads and rotor life, and $200 for entry. Total: $1575.

That's $400 less, not to count entry fees for more lapping days. I'd bet more money you'd have more fun on hot, sticky tires than wide street rubber.

If you are indeed building a real race car, and you are a novice driver, I would consider buying a Miata.
=================================
Thanks for the post and the thought.

Do you have a new subframe on the market that runs 295 mm tires?

This is all I was aware of:

"Destined to become one of the most popular bolt-in chassis
modifications of all time, Morrison’s new GT-Sport Front Clip is a
“must have” addition to any first generation Camaro/Firebird built
to G-machine specs. It also fits 1968-74 Chevy Novas.
Through use of a specially modified C6 spindle with lowered
steering arm mounting, the AGR power rack & pinion steering unit
is mounted some 2" lower in the frame, which allows for a lower
CG and improved handling.Big block, small block and LS-series
Chevy engines can be employed, as well as virtually any popular
automatic or manual transmission—including Richmond 5/6-speeds,
Tremec T56 and TKO, Muncie, Powerglide, TH-350 & 400, 700-
R4 and 4L60E—thanks to a series of available mounts.
Designed through use of FEA (finite element analysis) the 105 lb.
front clip has outstanding strength and stiffness, yet is
significantly lighter than the bulky OEM unit. With a reduced
unsprung weight, forged aluminum C6 Corvette control arms, a
shortened front view swing arm, modified caster, and adjustable
coil-over shocks, Morrison’s GT-Sport clip will provide awesome
handling. It comes with a near-stock tread width for optimum
wheel fitment opportunities, and can use a wider-than-stock tire
(265/35R18 tested).
As no cutting or welding is required, installing a GT-Sport clip
can be performed by most competent do-it-yourselfers in the
comfort of their own garage. With an aggressive, lower stance
and incredible handling characteristics, the look and “feel” of a
Morrison GT-Sport Clip-equipped Camaro is unbeatable!
A number of accessories are available to make the installation
easier, including body mounts, headers, and a brake line kit."

http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/13.pdf

Will your product run a 295 mm tire, AND not have problems driving around in town, parking etc.?

I had no idea that yours would handle such a wide tire. What size Wheels and Tires do you use to run a 295 mm tire?

That's obviously great news, I was just not aware of it.:twothumbs

Sorry, my mistake.

From searching all the aftermarket frames I could find that could run a 275 mm well, I thought I had only found one that could do a 285 mm or larger.

What else can you tell us about your (new?) product?

Do you have any test results with the larger wheel tire combination? I would like to know if you experienced any increase in ability over the previous 265 mm.

Thanks for the update, I look forward to hearing more.

Best Regards,

Ty O'Neal

[silver69camaro]

Ty,
No new product. We tested a 265 at the time of that writing, but 275 works well too. Any larger requires small steering stops (supplied by us) and the optional splined bar. "Jackass" is running a 285mm, and we have a customer running a 295mm with either a 10" or 11" wide rim, I can't remember at this point. Personally, I prefer a stiffer sidewall, so I stretched a 275mm on a 10" wide rim for sharper steering response. You'll always gain more handing capability with a wider tire, but you have to look at the big picture as well.

[silver69camaro]

Well, why run ps2s when you can run hoosiers?
And since R6 hoosiers in 295 and 335 are 1248.00, The price difference isn't really that great.

Again, look at the big picture. More tire means shorter rotor life, shorter pad life, and more component wear on the entire car. It adds up, and sometimes quickly.

There is also something to be said that a lousy driver in a great car does not make for a fast lap. A driver needs to learn to drive the vehicle at it's limits, again and again. If you have so much grip in the car that you can never find its limits, you will not be doing yourself a favor. Cars behave so much differently at that threshold, and a good driver knows what to do. If you don't and are over your head, you can put that car into a barrier real quick.

IMO, when I hear the tires squeel at every turn, I'm having more fun.

[tyoneal]

Again, look at the big picture. More tire means shorter rotor life, shorter pad life, and more component wear on the entire car. It adds up, and sometimes quickly.

There is also something to be said that a lousy driver in a great car does not make for a fast lap. A driver needs to learn to drive the vehicle at it's limits, again and again. If you have so much grip in the car that you can never find its limits, you will not be doing yourself a favor. Cars behave so much differently at that threshold, and a good driver knows what to do. If you don't and are over your head, you can put that car into a barrier real quick.

IMO, when I hear the tires squeel at every turn, I'm having more fun.
============================
Thanks for the clarity.

For me having broader choice in what I can run is worth the effort, since the money to basically build a custom car is going to be high anyway. If the car would hold up to 305 up front, it wouldn't necessarily mean you would HAVE to run a 305 mm all the time, it would just give you the flexibility to. Further as long as the wheel fit correctly in the fender it would still look good just driving around town. When it's track day, throw on the 305's.

It would also give you the ability to learn to drive your car with very different, "Feels" (sp?). In other words, you could deliberately tune your car to handle in many different ways. This would allow you to learn the "edge" with smaller tires, and move into wider tires as your skill set improved.

I think the looks for a lot of people would be enough to justify the purchase alone, for the others (Myself included) who want the option to run a wider wheel/tire would have the extra room. Given these cars are 3000-4000 pounds, after you have tuned it properly, the only way to get it to corner at a higher rate/speed, IS to increase the width of the Tire.

At least as far as I can tell some simple physics helps tell the story, the heavier the car is, the more kinetic energy it stores at a given speed. Given a particular tire of size x, and compound y, can hold so many pounds of lateral force. The heavier the car is, the quicker it exceeds the limits of the available traction provided by the 4 tires. Wider tires = Higher available traction = higher lateral turning ability. *(Given the suspension has been tuned equally well in each circumstance, and the conditions when tested are identical.)

All this may be essentially useless to many, for me, I enjoy all of it.

Well executed flares are an option I would choose, if I were deciding between one car over another whether it was a new car, used car, or custom car. I am not a purest about having a car that is exactly as built in 1969. I want to drive it and enjoy it. If I had it in a show and other people thought it was cool, that would be a bonus. If only I thought it looked better, that would be a bonus. If it could give me a broader performance experience, THAT is what would ring my chimes.

I primarily just wanted to get a snapshot of the people on this site to see there was enough interest to justify trying to make these possible.

As I mentioned earlier I just want people to be honest with their opinions. After a few days, I will contact D!ck Guldstrand's business and try to see it I can get an idea how they would design these, and what they would probably look like.

I personally would like for them to look like the flares that were used in the late 60's and early 70's.

Thanks for reading again, and please offer your ongoing thoughts on this.

Ty

[tyoneal]

This response is a tangent to the real reason of this thread, which deal with Fender Flares for first generation Camaro's. Please ask or comment to that point.

<off line>


Again, look at the big picture. More tire means shorter rotor life, shorter pad life, and more component wear on the entire car. It adds up, and sometimes quickly.

There is also something to be said that a lousy driver in a great car does not make for a fast lap. A driver needs to learn to drive the vehicle at it's limits, again and again. If you have so much grip in the car that you can never find its limits, you will not be doing yourself a favor. Cars behave so much differently at that threshold, and a good driver knows what to do. If you don't and are over your head, you can put that car into a barrier real quick.

IMO, when I hear the tires squeel at every turn, I'm having more fun.
==================================
Matt:

First:
(I have Tongue in Cheek as you are an Engineer, ok?)

But I'm going to argue the other side of this statement, because at some level I know there is at least a small amount of truth to it, (I think?);-), and many of my friends are Engineers and sparing can be fun for both. (I hope)

:enguard:

Wouldn't the wear and tear on the other components of the car be negligible from moving to a 305-315 tire over a 295?

1) I realize it's probably non-linear, but components like what AM sells are usually of such high quality and over built, by the time something wears out, it probably wouldn't be surprising one way or the other with either tire size.

Example:
Driver A's components last equally as long with a 305 mm tire, (within a small standard deviation) with those of Driver B's 295 mm tires.

Is this wrong?

2) I would imagine it could be easily argued that Driver A is harder on Equipment than Driver B, or, given the variables of all the components you mentioned working together, you couldn't easily tell if at all which if any components caused what degree of, "Extra", wear and tear on which part(s).

3) The range of the acceptability (Pass/Fail) in the, "Quality Control" process, of any of the numerous parts that could possibly fail or wear out pre-maturely, would be extremely variable and probably impossible to say with a high degree of certainty that, "The 10 mm of extra width on those two front tires was the cause of the problem, and then go back and be able to say, the difference in cost between a 295 mm tire and the 305 mm tire was the amount of "X" dollars per mile, over the different tracks, track laps, performing at different times of the day, and the different style of each of the drivers."

4) You could even run one car until a front end failure occurred, and find that:

a) the parts on both sides of that car (with the 305 mm tires) were worn unequally

b) the parts on both sides of the car were worn equally, but the reason one of the two sides failed before the other was due to a difference in the heat treatment of one of the rotors and, as come to find out, they came out of two different lots. (But were still within spec before they left the factory) As a result, the pads on that side wore unevenly and caused the car to pull from one side or the other just enough to cause equality or inequality of wear and tear on part a, etc. etc. etc.

c) the simple fact that one side failed BEFORE the other, and not at the same time

d) Someone doing routine maintenance on the differential, found a clutch on one side of the unit was totally worn out, and that particular part could have caused enough difference in the way the power was transfered to cause, "That", part to wear out first, thus causing x.

e) A lousy driver in a great car with 245 mm tires, can wear out components quicker than a great driver in a car with 335 mm tires all around. :naughty:

I know this is absurd, but sometimes certain parts wear out early, or fail because they just do, and there is no absolute reason for it.

In other words, I think it would be difficult to absolutely be sure not that there IS a difference, but that THE difference was caused by 10 mm's of extra Rubber.

I look forward to your response.:enguard:

Ty

(Please take this from the perspective it was intended.)

BTW: I agree with you about the edge of traction and control.

<Back to your regularly scheduled program>

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[tyoneal]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
===============================
Thanks for the funny post:

I would have to say, Yes, well not in the, "Angry, or Enraged", definition, but rather the, "Feeling or showing strong liking or enthusiasm", definition.

Some people might say that, and you wouldn't be the first. However, different ideas have helped me do a lot of thing in my past that have had profoundly good results associated with them.

I highly recommend it.:idea:

BTW: I liked the self portrait of, "Joseph Ducreux". It was a good choice, it seems to fit. One of a few Frogs I like, that aren't fried.:yum:
=========================================
Joseph Ducreux (June 26, 1735 – July 24, 1802) is an eighteenth century French artist known for his unorthodox style of portrait paintings. This is one of his Self Portraits. He would probably like Fender Flares, even if he had to put them on his Carriage.
=========================================
Fender Flares are Cool!

Back At you!!
:enguard:

Take care,

Ty
(How did you get your Picture to show up enlarged, without clicking on the, "Thumbnail" sized picture?)

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Ty, actually you really dont know how much we are on the same side on this one.... youll see soon.

[tyoneal]

Ty, actually you really dont know how much we are on the same side on this one.... youll see soon.

===============================
I'm really looking forward to seeing how popular this topic is. So many people modify their cars, that It's hard for me to imagine someone NOT wanting at least some kind of flare. I could be wrong, but I think they look so Bad Ass, and I'm Dying for someone to Make them in Fiber Glass or CF.

Something very functional, and visually in sync with the over all shape of the fenders and the car.

Are you going to be that person?

Give me hint, just a small one.

I enjoyed your post, and the sign. I cracked up.

Take Care,

Ty

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Ty, i already beat you to it.. i have the flares made and molds in fiberglass AND carbon fiber...

so really.. you wont HAVE to wait long.. and neither do the rest.

believe me.. youll see.

/nosarcasm.

[NOT A TA]

Ty, i already beat you to it.. i have the flares made and molds in fiberglass AND carbon fiber...

so really.. you wont HAVE to wait long.. and neither do the rest.

believe me.. youll see.

/nosarcasm.

Amir! Thats huge news to let the cat out of the bag in this thread!!! You're killin me! I'm going to repeat to myself for the rest of the day................ "I must not tear into the 67 till all other projects are finished, I must not tear into the 67 till all other projects are finished" " It's fine, leave it alone, It's fine, leave it alone" "I must not tear into the 67 till all other projects are finished!"

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yup... just wait til you see em..

[Shiro666]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/NoTeaseZonePosters-1.jpg

[tyoneal]

Hello Everyone:

If you have a chance, please at least take the survey. I am really interested in getting your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ty

[tyoneal]

yup... just wait til you see em..
===============================
I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Since the fenders of the 69 are unique and a "Classic Touch", I hope they will look a lot like the Fenders Jake and a couple others have put together. The leading line of the wheel opening and the squared wheel wells are one of THE identifying features of the 69 Camaro.

The others which are rounded would be a lot easier to do well without destroying the Identity of the car.

At least let us know if these items have been preserved.

Thanks,

Ty

[Cris@JCG]

Here is what we are doing to gain some tire clearence on the rear!! It is just a little flare!! we pulled the rear qtr about 2 inches.. We are working on the front fender & should be done tomorrow..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1110005-1.jpg

[tyoneal]

Here is what we are doing to gain some tire clearence on the rear!! It is just a little flare!! we pulled the rear qtr about 2 inches.. We are working on the front fender & should be done tomorrow..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1110005-1.jpg
===========================
That looks real nice.

Post some more pictures of it and the Front one once you get it done.:pics2:

Will you be doing any fiberglass or CF?:brow:

[Cris@JCG]

Here you go Ty! We are still working out some small detail..
If we move forward on doing these fenders we will do them in CF.. Maybe in glass..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150013-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150017-1.jpg

[Cris@JCG]

Here is a 67 that we did a couple of weeks ago! I was not able to get the front lower cause of the suspension..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1070035-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1070037-1.jpg

[tyoneal]

Here is a 67 that we did a couple of weeks ago! I was not able to get the front lower cause of the suspension..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1070035-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1070037-1.jpg
============================
So you are doing +2 inches front and back, yes?

How large a wheel/tire can you run Up front? (With what subframe)

In the rear it looks like you modified just the, "Fender", part of a quarter Panel, or was it a fender for a convertible?

In any case, the Black rear fender that you stretched doesn't look like it was originally attached to the upper part of the quarter panel.

In any case they appear to look real nice.

Thanks for posting the additional photo's.

Ty

[Jeffrotech]

Yes - I agree that a fender stretch is a better way to go. More room and it looks much cleaner!

[jackfrost]

so when you stretch the quarters, what do you do with the outer wheel well? is it cut and moved with the quarter panel?

[Cris@JCG]

We have to build a new one.



so when you stretch the quarters, what do you do with the outer wheel well? is it cut and moved with the quarter panel?

[Cris@JCG]

So you are doing +2 inches front and back, yes?

We did a 2 inch stretch on the rear & 1.5 on the front

How large a wheel/tire can you run Up front? (With what subframe)

I don't know yet cause we have no suspension on the car. Has stock sub-frame undernerth it.

In the rear it looks like you modified just the, "Fender", part of a quarter Panel, or was it a fender for a convertible?

Attached pic will show you where we modified it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1160027-1.jpg

[vsefiream]

I am a huge fan of the '70's flared fender look. The first gen Camaro fenders above look fantastic, a nice modern take on the old flare!! I have flared fenders and quarters for my car already, other wise I would be interested in finding a source for 2gen Firebird flared fenders.
Gulstrand might not be interested in reproducing these though... his good friend Herb made them originally :machine: LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/dcp_3425-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/IMG_0667-1.jpg

[CruizinKev]

wondering for a while - why this thread always appears on top?

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

the poll... it does nothing!!!

[tyoneal]

the poll... it does nothing!!!
===========================
I fear your right about that. Had I known things would have taken this track, I would of redone the thread.

I'm hoping someone will choose to be the supplier of a nice set for our cars.

If Fiberglass was done there would be NO NEED to do a CF Mold.

The Pricing at that point and the cost to create the molds would be considerably cheaper.

Look at all the businesses that make Gel-Coat faced fiberglass backed parts.

Much of the expense can be cut both time and money if:

a. You use a decent gel coat so it is easy to spread, and the parts look nice (Less porosity problems)

b. Be Prudent with the use of epoxy, or polyester resin

c. Vacuum bagging can be cut out completely without excess resin used. (The boat industry is a perfect example of inexpensive molds and parts

d. You can decrease the pot life and cure of the gel coat if you will raise the temperature in the room, and don't start with a cold mold

2) Even if it saves NO weight, it will save huge amounts of time and Money for both the manufacturer and the customer. Plus you can put out a lot more pieces so your cost per unit will come down even further, and more people will be able to buy them.

Don't get me wrong I love CF, and I love the way it looks, but at this point having, "0", choices Sucks. I would gladly use Fiberglass if I had a chance.

It would be great to have a nice looking part, that if I or someone screwed up, I wouldn't be out 1k-2k. I would surely drive the car harder if I didn't have to worry about things like that.

Ironically, you buy CF so it will give you an advantage in lower weight, but if your not driving the hell out of you car, the weight doesn't make any difference anyway. Given the price to go CF, very few if any would run their car as hard as they would with plain metal fenders.

Pro-Touring (To ME) is about two things:

1. Having a killer classic car with loads of performance and Technology.

2. Driving it at that point where the performance and the Technology makes a difference.

If you can't or won't drive it, you have a Hot Rod.

Putt, Putt, Putt, Putt, Putt, .....................BS!

Might as well get some, "Mag Wheels", and some glass packs, it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Save the money for something else.

Ty

[Gitter Dun]

Here you go Ty! We are still working out some small detail..
If we move forward on doing these fenders we will do them in CF.. Maybe in glass..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150013-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150017-1.jpg
That is straight up the most bad ass flare job I have ever seen on a '69, need details on cost, but if the geen is available I'm in!!!!

[tyoneal]

That is straight up the most bad ass flare job I have ever seen on a '69, need details on cost, but if the geen is available I'm in!!!!
================================
Can you add a couple of pictures from closer up at the door seams, and any transition points?

Since you have a stock subframe in it, use it as a baseline. Have you gotten any information regarding what size of front Wheel/Tire combinations will easily work? Also, what type of turning radius do you get? (in degrees)

What size will fit with a maximum amount of turning angle.

All these numbers at a nice looking ride height if possible.

Thanks for the pictures.

Ty O'Neal

[JRouche]

Very interesting thread. At first I looked passed it for fear of seeing some goofy 70's humps. Not the case when you see Cris G's work. THATS how it should be done.

Its NOT a goofy, cartoon looking bump out of the fenders and quarters (70's look). It keeps the original lines of the car and gives a major increase in space for larger tires and extended control arms for folks that want that. I love that car......

Other than that, a complete re-work of the panels, I see any other options as just a poorly thought out means to the end.

Im not a fan of fiberglass add on or even full replacement panels to extend the width of the wheel wells. They always look like an addition to the stock panels, and give an appearance that the owner didnt want to spend the money to have a shop do the job correctly. Not saying the proper glass parts couldnt be made, they just havent surfaced yet.

It WOULD be nice to see some aftermarket panels that keep with the flow of the body lines. But so far I havent seen it. They usually keep to the original body lines until they get to the bump out. And thats where it speaks of cartoon.

Section the panels at the top and take care to notice where the transition takes place and thats where a bump out of the fenders and quarters looks good. This is just my opinion.

For me Cris G has performed the work to a T. Thats the correct way to bump out the panels. Gonna be hard to re-create that in aftermarket panels.

Im glad to have a local guy here in town, never knew he was out there. Im gonna have to take a visit. JR

[carboy400]

I'd hate to revive an old post that caused such hot debate but I am actually recreating a replica of Jerry Titus's '70 TA and have been hard pressed to sources these flares. I would love to hear from someone on this please.

[MrQuick]

gotta find someone to make them...I haven't seen anything on the market lately.

I had a lead on moulds but it went cold.
Vince

[John Wright]

Love to see somebody stamp out some rear quarter skins and front fenders with the stretch already done like Cris did earlier in this thread.

remove old skins, weld on new stuff....whalah!

[Cris@JCG]

John- I have already looked into what it will take to stamp out qtrs & fenders.. Tooling is not cheap & the qty I have to buy is huge to make these some what affordable..

Everytime I do a fender stretch it changes.. cause I am always looking for it to look better or get cost out of it..

Here is a second gen that I did .. & have changed it like 3 times to get it to look right..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/20100412121516-1.jpg


We are finishing up this qtr panel work in the next week or so.. & starting a 68 Camaro next week & 70 Nova with all four corners blown out!!


Love to see somebody stamp out some rear quarter skins and front fenders with the stretch already done like Cris did earlier in this thread.

remove old skins, weld on new stuff....whalah!

[John Wright]

^^^Uh, can you pry those skins back off... along with the front fenders, and ship them to 24588? I have a place for them.

[carboy400]

Chris G I love what you are doing there. I am still up in the air on which direction I should take this project. One way is to do an honest recreation of the Jerry's '70 TA in white or a representation of it with some updates and new techniques. Artists choice, would you be willing to let me in on how you stretched that quarter?

[67 ls1 vert]

what does something like this cost to do on the 67-68 camaros?
Sorry if you posted the price I didnt see it.

[navyflyer72]

I like the flares on both the 69 and the 67! They are probably the nicest flares I have seen pulled off!

Can't wait to see them finished.

[Cris@JCG]

Ummm.. Let think about that John! NOO!


^^^Uh, can you pry those skins back off... along with the front fenders, and ship them to 24588? I have a place for them.

[Cris@JCG]

PM an an e-mail address & we will see what we can do..


Chris G I love what you are doing there. I am still up in the air on which direction I should take this project. One way is to do an honest recreation of the Jerry's '70 TA in white or a representation of it with some updates and new techniques. Artists choice, would you be willing to let me in on how you stretched that quarter?

[Cris@JCG]

Everything we do here @ the shop is billed by time & materials.. car are so unpredicatable.. i would have to look @ it to give you a rough cost on what it will take..

The cars that that I have done this to so far have needed new qtrs replaced.. The front are a different ball game.. stretch a fender & modify an inner fender well.. takes some serious fab work ..


what does something like this cost to do on the 67-68 camaros?
Sorry if you posted the price I didnt see it.

[John Wright]

Ummm.. Let think about that John! NOO!
:cheers:LOL....oh well, didn't hurt to ask.....LOL:fingersx:

[tyoneal]

Here you go Ty! We are still working out some small detail..
If we move forward on doing these fenders we will do them in CF.. Maybe in glass..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150013-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150017-1.jpg
====================================

I was just looking back on this post and with great salivation, I thought I might inquire about these stretched fenders in Glass or CF. Would almost rather have glass so I could run the car harder and not worry about a $1000 fender, if I had an off course excursion.

These look GREAT:1st:, and I'm ready. The only Caveat I have is that I want the other parts that would mate up to the fenders to be able to do so just like the originals.

Please give me an update, or if you have decided NOT to pursue this, any information regarding someone who does would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

[Cris@JCG]

Ty- At this time we have no action to move further on make these panels out of CF or or glass.. We looked at it and cannot justify cost on tooling & demand to move forward.. Sorry

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

that shixz is expensive!

[tyoneal]

No Problem, just thought I would ask in case you were moving forward. Maybe when things get better in the Economy?

Thanks,

Ty

[COPO-RAT]

Here is a second gen that I did .. & have changed it like 3 times to get it to look right..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/20100412121516-1.jpg


That is super sexy there. I'm sure the wife and her 2nd gen firebird would LOVE those! Awesome work!

[tyoneal]

yup... just wait til you see em..


I can hardly wait

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you have a 69 right?

[tyoneal]

you have a 69 right?

Of course, is there other years worth doing? :wink:

Yes, currently, this is the forth first gen I have had.

Ty

[Blitz]

What's everybody so flared up about? It's just.....naw, I'm kidding.

Badazzness is those pictures.

[tyoneal]

Here you go Ty! We are still working out some small detail..
If we move forward on doing these fenders we will do them in CF.. Maybe in glass..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150013-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/01/P1150017-1.jpg
===============================================
I understand your position, it never hurts to ask I figure.

Keep up the great work.

Ty

[tyoneal]

Cris:

Thanks for taking a hard look at it. Your fenders look great, and I'm sure your customers are happy campers when they pick them up.

Ty

[Trevon]

Lol old thread. I looked into flared quarters and fenders because I really want that widebody look down the road, but no luck in finding anything that wouldn't cost thousands in labor...not in my budget.

[thunderzy]

Yup!! I want some for my 79 bird!

[Darell]

Yup!! I want some for my 79 bird!
I would be down for a full set like the old vintage t/a race cars used front and rear, might do two sets if price was right.

DARELL

[tyoneal]

I would be on board for a set for the 69 Camaro.

Ty

[jaimejr352]

Hey! want a set of thoughs fenders! Your doing a great job. Far better the any iv seen. Considering how the flow with the body. ts keeping that original but agresive look at the same time. How much for a full set. What ever the price, its worth it. [/I][/I]

[jaimejr352]

Hey! want a set of thoughs fenders! Your doing a great job. Far better the any iv seen. Considering how the flow with the body. ts keeping that original but agresive look at the same time. How much for a full set. What ever the price, its worth it. [/I][/I]