Carlc or anyone else-Circle Track Upper Control Arms??

[bretcopsey]

I have been inspired by CarlC even more to try to fit 17x9.5 with 275/40/17 on the front of my 68 Camaro, but I have a question. I already rebuilt the factory control arms with new Moog ball Joints, GW Del A Lum bushings and Moog offset cross shafts on the uppers. I know that Carl used the Speedtech control arms to gain clearance on the upper arm, but I hate like h#ll to buy everything all over again and spend that much more. So that got me to thinking about the possibility of using some Afco or similar uppers that others have talked about here before. The price is a lot easier for me to justify, but I would like some reall world advice before plunking down some more cash. I intend to do the Guldstrand mod also, if that makes a difference. This car will be street driven 99.9% of the time, aa I don't know that it will ever see a track.

[wally8]

What sort of advice would you like? I say go for it. The AFCO arms are good quality pieces for strength. They don't quite have the super nice finish of a Hotchkiss or something like that but they're plenty strong.


Wally

[bretcopsey]

Well, for starters will they hold up on a street car? I will be running a big block, 700+lb springs and Bilsteins.

Will they provide the additional clearance necessary? Does anyone know which part numbers will directly replace the factory arms, or do they have an arm that would also help the 1st gen geometry? Can I reuse my Del a Lum bushings and offset cross shafts?

[MarkM66]

I don't think you need different uppers to run that size wheel. The first area to hit would be your frame, at full lock. Also, make sure you have the short steering arms. Or the wheel will hit the tie rod, if you run more then 5.25" backspacing on your 17" wheel.

[wally8]

1. I don't know. They hold up on a race car. I wouldn't hesitate to use them on a street car but who am I?

2. Don't know. I'm not a camaro guy.

3. They don't make stock replacements per se. They make an offset or non-offset model and then you just spec the length. They have quite a few standard lengths or you can order a custom length.

4. No. You won't need offset cross shafts.


Wally

[David Pozzi]

All the racing uppers I've seen have different bolt spacing to the chassis, and they have no arch to the arm, they are just flat. I imagine the circle track guys cut away the frame where the arm would interfere and install weight jack screws over the springs.

I doubt any of them have enough positive caster built in.

I'd rather see you use one of the arms made for street/track use to avoid problems. Speed Tech is the most inexpensive I've found that works well. Arms like the FatMan brand might work, as far as clearance, but I doubt the geometry is improved over stock and they might only sell polly.
Check out the Pole Position arms, they might be a good deal.

[wally8]

David gives a good reason to go with the adjustables. You can have whatever caster you want then. example: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp/strBase_List./hilt./source.2191/base_no.91034380/str_base_no.000%2DCATALOG+RACE%2C91034290%2C910343 00%2C91034323%2C91034364%2C91034371%2C91034380%2C9 1034386%2C91034393%2C91034395%2C91034397%2C9103441 0%2C91034812%2C91082160%2C91088200%2C91089411%2C91 634034%2C91634039%2C91634045%2C91634309%2C/header_title.NEW%21+Race+Products%2DControl+Arms/page_name.prod%5Flist%5Fdisplay.asp/search_type.L1%7E25/search_option./deptsearch./deptSearch_id.2/dept_id.L1%7E25/dept_id_p.2/dept_name./dept_name_p.NEW%21+Race+Products/ShowImages.yes/sq.0/cont.1/intPgNo.1/redirect./qx/product.htm

Otherwise like he said, most of us just cut the stock mount off and use one of these: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp/strBase_List./hilt./source.2191/base_no.91634309/str_base_no.000%2DCATALOG+RACE%2C91034290%2C910343 00%2C91034323%2C91034364%2C91034371%2C91034380%2C9 1034386%2C91034393%2C91034395%2C91034397%2C9103441 0%2C91034812%2C91082160%2C91088200%2C91089411%2C91 634034%2C91634039%2C91634045%2C91634309%2C/header_title.NEW%21+Race+Products%2DControl+Arms/page_name.prod%5Flist%5Fdisplay.asp/search_type.L1%7E25/search_option./deptsearch./deptSearch_id.2/dept_id.L1%7E25/dept_id_p.2/dept_name./dept_name_p.NEW%21+Race+Products/ShowImages.yes/sq.0/cont.1/intPgNo.1/redirect./qx/product.htm


What is the spacing on the holes for a camaro. I know they fit stock a-bodies and g-bodies. Are f-bodies different? I'm pretty sure there are two spacings available. 2nd gen f-bodies are a VERY common circle track application. I'm not much of a camaro guy so I'm not up on the differences other than the goofy rear steer thing :-)

This all comes back to some good general advice though. If you want to use circle track parts you'll have to know a little more than just how to bolt them on. Having been in this arena for the last 10 years, I can't imagine using anything else. The GW and Hotchkis stuff is just way too much money as far as I can see. I can't think of any street car that has taken anywhere near the abuse that is common on your average dirt oval.


Wally

[David Pozzi]

Camaro 67-69 and Nova up to 1974 have a hole spacing of 6.5". Most circle track stuff is 6".

The racing upper arms that take a bolt in upper BJ, use a pickup truck balljoint, it looks the same as a stock UBJ pattern, but it is a larger pattern and the stud is larger, so you would need to bore out your spindles or remake the mount plate to fit a smaller joint. The screw in type joints will probably require reaming the spindle too.

Pole Position makes a setup that will utilize the stock UBJ.

[Marcus SC&C]

If you`re interested in Pole Position adj. UCAs give me a call at the shop and I can tell you whatever you want to know. We sell a lot of them for 1st gen Camaros (and we sell them cheaper than Pole Position direct BTW). The version PPR sells for Camaros uses a bent UBJ plate to help it fit on stock ride height cars. We sell our own version that`s better suited to ProTouring cars because when they`re lowered,set up for good geometry and handling the UCA ends up roughly level at ride height making flat UCAs perfect. Rebound frame clearance really isn`t the problem you`d might think it might be. If you wanted even more travel though there is a UBJ spacer kit available to raise the arm or you can raise the arm for better clearance AND improve the geometry with our package that includes the adj. UCAs and tall stud modular ball joints (Street Comp Stg.1). Even without them you can easily get 6"+ total travel measured at the LBJ. Marcus SC&C

[bretcopsey]

Guys, I want to say thank you for the advice given so far. I was not aware of the PPR arms before, and they seem like a product I would be interested in.

My problem is that my project has taken me forever to get going, with a limited budjet and even more restricted free time. A wife, house and four kids ages 6 and under can do that. Because of this, more new products come out that seem to be a huge improvement over what was available when I bought some of my stuff. If I keep buying these new parts I will never get done...

That said, the only reason I was looking at the possibility of tubular arms was for fitting 275 rubber up front. I do have the drum brake to C4 13" conversion, the shortest available steering arms and GW Del a Lum all over the front. I also plan to do the G-mod as shown on David's site, by cutting off the mount and rewelding. I have been under the impression all along that this will be more than enough for my intended driving purposes. I don't even know of any tracks around here except for Mid Ohio...

So if I can manage to get by with what I have and make it work, great! If not, but some Afco arms will, then fine. But I don't know about dropping $400 on a set of upper arms. What's next, replacing the lower bushings b/c they aren't compatible with the new rubber ones etc... It's a vicious cycle.

Thanks for letting me rant.