1964 1/2 Mustang perfect restoration (pro touring)?

[1968Maro]

I know most of us are chevy guys, but...

About 10 years ago my then 85 year old grandfather had a 1964 1/2 convertible Mustang faithfully restored to original condition by a body shop in Tampa Florida. He is now 95 and his health is failing and he has given the car to me.

The car has won several car shows in Florida and is so intricately restored that it has all the factory warning labels on it in just the right places, the original refurbished door strikers and door locks, everything. Numbers matching, paint correct, you name it.

Well here is the problem, it is AWFUL to drive! It has the original 289ci that is sluggish and unresponsive. I really think it has the original springs that were refurbished and repainted because it rolls like a boat on the ocean. Mono leaf rear end, with period correct shocks, yuck!

It was my grandfathers and he really wanted me to have it, but the car is NO fun to drive. I hate trailer queen cars, and I don't want to sit at car shows.

1) I can pro-tour it, and destroy the all original restoration.

2) I can sell it or swap it

3) I can make minor changes to the car to improve it. Which begs the question what can I swap out / bolt on that won't ruin the all original theme? The biggest issues with the car are the awful body roll and horribly tame motor. (My entry level V6 4 runner could run circles around this thing off the line, trust me that’s sad)


If I don’t do something with it I will never drive it.

Just so you know the car is nothing special, it’s not the first out of the factory or anything.

[6'9"Witha69]

yuo sure about the 289, not a 260? Not that there is really much difference between a 260 and a C code 289.

Body roll is the sway bars. Easy bolt on that doesn'r affect value and can easily be reversed (but why?).
Springs and shcks fall in this same category. Easy to swap and non permanent. If you don't mind a few extra holes a UCA relocation and GW arms could easily fit the bill. Also, make sure the power assist ram is working properly if so equipped. swapping to higher duriometer bushings or solid. There are even GT style repros in 16 an 17 inch sizes which will bolt right up and look period correct.

From there a cam, head and intake swap can really wake up a 289. 325-350 horse depending on combo, maybe more but you'd lose streetability.

C-4 I assume? They work well and I am sure there are freeway gears in an open diff out back.

Boy I am getting carried away.

[78 Type-LT]

pro-tour it.....

[1968Maro]

Kind of left out a really big question.

If its factory perfect now will pro-touring it ruin it, or the potential sale value?

Would it be a horriable thing to do to such a faithfully restored car, should I give it to a good home and rebuild one that somebody has already cut up?

thanks

[Fast68back]

With everything being basically stock, a larger front sway bar and a set of roller spring perches would do wonders for the car. The Shelby/Arning drop of the UCA is not going to make a huge difference in a stock suspension.

[Bryce]

I would go with a lowered stance. 16x8 wheels and 245/50/16 tires on all four corners. Shelby/arning drop. Full roller front suspension, spring perches and control arm mounts. Use opentracker as a source. Maybe even the adjustable strut bar with rodend fitting. Subframe connectors from TCP. Rear suspesnion could use a panhard bar from maier or watts link from Fays. I would run varishocks double adjustable "bolt in" shocks all the way around.

Keep the exterior and interior stock for now. Just make it fun to drive.

[Fast68back]

I would go with a lowered stance. 16x8 wheels and 245/50/16 tires on all four corners. Shelby/arning drop. Full roller front suspension, spring perches and control arm mounts. Use opentracker as a source. Maybe even the adjustable strut bar with rodend fitting. Subframe connectors from TCP. Rear suspesnion could use a panhard bar from maier or watts link from Fays. I would run varishocks double adjustable "bolt in" shocks all the way around.

Keep the exterior and interior stock for now. Just make it fun to drive.

+1 on Opentracker, John's knowledge and products are top notch!
http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/

[Restomod]

Sell it!!
A 64.5 Vert is worth to much to cut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PleaseNoSteve]

Sell it and get something that you would enjoy.

[2ndgenhunter]

I would keep it and do bolt on changes. Keep all the orig parts and drop in a crate engine

[dhutton]

I would keep it and do bolt on changes. Keep all the orig parts and drop in a crate engine

X2. It would be a shame to cut that car up and it would likely break your grandfather's heart. I'm also guessing it would destroy the value of the car.

[Bishop73]

Unless sentimental value is holding you back sell it. Sounds like to nice a restoration to mess with.

[wmhjr]

If it's truly original and restored, and you have (or get) the Marti report, don't mess with it. "Maybe" bolt-on changes that can be easily put back to stock with no evidence whatsoever of the change, but nothing else. I would not even remotely consider PT for it.

IMHO, knowing that your grandpap spent so much effort getting it factory correct, modifying it would be no different than selling it. My preference would be to either:

1) Keep it as is, and build a different PT project starting with something not having either historical, monetary or emotional value.
2) Keep it as is and if you don't have the extra money for another project, enjoy the experience of such a classic that was passed down from your grandpap.
3) Sell it to somebody who will maintain it the way it should be maintained and use the money for something you would enjoy more.

Just my perspective.

[Fast68back]

Marti reports are not available on pre '67 cars.

[redhead]

if you can't cope with the restored pony plz out of respect for the effort and love your grandad put into the car don't cut it up.
I would suggest you sell the car to someone who appreciates it and
then find yourself a better slug to take down the pro-tour runway.

[1964_442]

keep it original!!! pt a 65 !!!!

[wmhjr]

Marti reports are not available on pre '67 cars.

I didn't know that. Good to know, and thanks. I wonder why they can't do anything prior to '67?

[Fast68back]

The documents prior to '67 were destroyed by Ford. When Marti cut the deal with Ford for the documents all that remained were the '67 and up.

[Nessumsar]

Sell it, don't deface it. By the sound of it, you can make a considerable amount of money on it, enough to buy and modify alot of nice cars.

[wmhjr]

The documents prior to '67 were destroyed by Ford. When Marti cut the deal with Ford for the documents all that remained were the '67 and up.

Interesting stuff. Thanks! I knew they contracted for '67 and above, but never knew why. Thanks for the explanation!

[6fastback7]

there is plenty of bolt on suspension setups (coil-overs or airbags).. bolt on rack and pinion setups...then a set of 17inch rims and your good to go and you havent destroyed anything.. you can always go back to stock if you decide to sell it in the future.

[twosaturns]

you all know how the bolt on route goes, one thing leads to another.
lots of people love original 64-65 cars and think they are great (my friends grandfather has a '65, all original, he was so proud of it's only mod; he added facory power steering!) these peole are perfectly content driving around on sundays at 35mph and having people tell them "hey, cool car!"
I say, wait until your grandfather passes and then sell it. (don't mean to sound morbid, sorry).

[megaladon6]

1 it's a rare car (or at least semi-rare)
2 your grandfather apparently put a LOT of work into it.

either sell it to someone who will take proper care of it, or do just enough to make it driveable without doing anything irreversible. i'd pull the engine and trans if you go this route.

[monza]

I'd keep it as is, store it properly. Like money in the bank.
Finish the car your already working on and drive it hard.

[OldMechanik]

I would leave it alone and take it to shows...well that's what I'm suggesting to you. I can't leave anything alone!

A well restored car is hard to find, but not always much fun to a gearhead. Sure some guy who likes to wax the lint off it and stare at the "properly placed decals and grease pen markings" would love to take it to concourse shows where it's judged on originallity, but as a street driver it's a lame car and a waste of a machine. (from a hi-performance standpoint)

Only you can decide what to do...mods that can be reversed or a total P-T job. Maybe you could learn to enjoy trailering it to car shows or perhaps you should sell it and buy a car without the emotional strings to modify.

[bamadale]

i would probably leave it alone if it's in that kind of shape. my mustang coupe was an original cylinder car with all kinds of rust in it. so that's the reason i'm modifying it some

[NOT A TA]

First thing I would do is find out why the car feels sluggish. Even a stock 289 2V with a C4 wasn't all that bad (yes I owned them). Maybe there's carb or timing issues?

Next thing I'd do is drive grandpa around in it if thats still possible. Spending some time in the car with him might be fun and it would probably make him happy. It might also open the opportunity to ask him what he thinks? Maybe he wanted to replace the springs and stuff but just figured why bother because he is old and wouldn't get much use out of them. He knows you're a "Hot Rodder" right? So he may be figuring you'll do things to it already.

[garner67]

Even if you aren't a fan of Mustangs, that sure is one heck of a family heirloom. What an amazing gift!

If it's really been restored to stock specs it would be a shame to mess with it. However, as others have said, you could easily upgrade a few things to improve performance (shocks, springs, sway bar, good engine tune up, etc), which still could be reversible.

Whatever the case, keep it and drive it for a little while, just to show your grandpa some respect. Then, some time down the road, sell it "as is", and use the cash to fund a project that really excites you.

Can you post some pics of the car?

[HotRod47]

Just my .02 cents.

Take it from me, NEVER sell the car!! My grandfather had a 66 that was a black on black 289 C4 car. When he died in '89 my grandmother gave me the car. I needed a couple grand and promptly sold it off. Twenty years later I can tell you I would give anything to have that car back. The thing had just come out of the body shop with new paint and everything. It was a great car. It is one of my top 5 biggest regrets in life.

If I were you I would make some bolt on changes and enjoy the car for what it is. Even if you don't care for the car much what would it cost to store it for a while. Some day you may have kids and wouldn't it be cool to pass down grampas car to your child??

[Fast68back]

You could use this build as an inspiration...

http://www.dvsrestorations.com/bossoverview.html

They got this
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

In the car without modifying anything on the car or drilling any new holes in the chassis.

[Steeevooo]

Hey man I'm in the same situation as you with my 64 1/2...I've had it for 14 years now (since i was 8 hah!) my dad picked it up for me for 500$ no rust no nothing, it still has its 200 straight 6 in it with numbers matching and purrs like a kitten and I just decided that I'm gunna chop it up and make it roar like a lion I can't get rid of the car no matter how many times I've tried it just seems it was meant to be...I just finished my 66 with many great opinions and help from all these wonderful people on here and I'm gunna be chopping this one up and doing it all over again and I can't friggin wait! So good luck on what ever you decide man but my .02 says chop, cut, and rebuild!

[mc84_zz4]

Another vote for not cutting it up.
Bolts ons, sure, tires, wheels, shocks, sway bars,
headers, and stop.
The 289 should be fun as hell to drive, it not enough, save the original and drop in something hotter.
But leave everything else stock appearance.
He would expect you to keep it as a reminder of him, and he knows you love cars. You can always undo the bolts ons later.

Another bolt on I would consider are disk brakes, I think those are 4 drums IIRC.

[trapin]

Another vote for Bolt On's if the car has sentimental value and you don't plane on showing it. Otherwise sell it and use the money on another car. If you plan on selling it though, don't do it until after Gramps is gone, might break his heart.

[Bryce]

keep the car because its your grandpa's. But Keep it relatively stock and make some suspension mods so that you appreciate the car as much as he did!

Take him for a few last rides with it slightly improved handling and faster.

[Z06killinSBF]

First of all, I don't think 64 1/2's came with 289, the C4 in those years are slush boxes, and simple suspension mods make a huge difference.

If I had that car: Grab-A-Track suspension package, nice coated LT's with Magnaflow exhaust, change to a 70-later C4 or add a shift kit at least, convert to 4 barrel with RPM intake and nice 600cfm carb, Granada brake conversion, Shelby drop, maybe even some 3.50's.

Also, face it. That factory steering set-up will never be nice. I went through a complete front end re-build just to turn around and by a rack unit. Maybe manual convert with Shelby arm.

Just do easy, tasteful mods. There is no need to go all out with crazy suspension and roll cages.

[barraza]

64 1/2 and 65 mustangs are not particularly valuable or rare. There were over 100,000 of those convertibles made. A quick check of ebay has a couple of "stunning" restorations in the mid $20k's.

Starting with a restored car is probably the best way to do any car. Suspension, wheels, and brakes bolt ons will make it a nice driving package and it will not offend the purists.

[wmhjr]

64 1/2 and 65 mustangs are not particularly valuable or rare. There were over 100,000 of those convertibles made.

I wasn't aware that they still made 64 1/2 stangs. There may have been a ton built, but how many are still out there - original? Grandpa spent a bunch of time and money making it original. To me, it makes a bunch more sense to take something clearly not original and make "tasteful" modifications than to take a very well done original car nad modify it.

As for "stunning" eBay restorations in the 20's, I guess it all depends on perspective. Maybe I'm just giving too much credence to the car in question, but eBay is the very last place I would look in terms of a high quality original collectable.

[19,69camaro]

I say do simple bolt-ons and just drive it. When you want something more sell it

[barraza]

I wasn't aware that they still made 64 1/2 stangs. There may have been a ton built, but how many are still out there - original? Grandpa spent a bunch of time and money making it original. To me, it makes a bunch more sense to take something clearly not original and make "tasteful" modifications than to take a very well done original car nad modify it.

As for "stunning" eBay restorations in the 20's, I guess it all depends on perspective. Maybe I'm just giving too much credence to the car in question, but eBay is the very last place I would look in terms of a high quality original collectable.

Sentimentality aside, mustang verts are not rare. If it was an unrestored original, it would be a little different. Just don't throw any parts away, and you can always put it back stock if you want. I have done the same thing with my 68 camaro, it is a one owner SS350, it could be put back completely stock looking with a couple of days work, but I'm sure I never will, because like you, I hate trailer queens and sitting at car shows. The values I referenced for those cars on ebay reflect what you said about driving it,


it is AWFUL to driveDon't make the mistake of building a car the way you think others will like it. Build it the way you want, it will make a great car with the connection to your grandpa.

[Bryce]

keep the car because it WAS your grandpa's make the car YOURS by doing what you want.

DO NOT SELL THE CAR. The rare thing about the car is it was your grandpas.

I am building a 65 mustang k-model (kinda rare) with my dad. We are making it a drag car. Leaf spring rear suspension and I am designing a bolt in coil-over system for the front. We have built the car without drilling any new holes. So it can be returned to stock if ever desired.

But my dad has owned the car since 1964, I will NEVER sell it. It has too much personal value.

[Cannonball]

Sell it.
Buy what YOU want.

[6'9"Witha69]

My case, I still have my '62 Ford F-100. It was my grandfather's. He left it to me. I may never get a chance to do what I want with it (and keeping it stock is NOT part of that). But then again, even my grandpa didn't leave it stock. he yanked the 292 Y-block in favor of a 390 FE. The 3 speed manual was swapped for a C6. The rear was fitted with 3.73s in the 8.8. Heck, grandpa was a hot rodder. My plans are different than his, but it is mine now. What I will always have is what he gave me, the truck. Conditions of a vehicle change over time, ownership and memories are what matter.

[1968Maro]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I have been thinking long and hard about it and I am going to keep it and modify it.

I have had the opportunity to drive the car for several years now, and it even spent last summer in my garage. Unfortunately every time I drove it was kind of a boring experience, so I quit driving it. I want to keep it for sentimental reasons but it has got to get more exciting or it will be a dust collector for the rest of my life.

I am currently hip deep in my Camaro and have sunk to much money in it to do anything drastic with the mustang right now. There are lots of little things I can do to wake it up, and the first thing I am doing is pull that 289 and figure out why it is so tired. I agree with some of your comments that the 289 can be a hell of an engine.

The stock manifold and cam are probably the biggest problem, but being that I don't know much about the 289 I would love to hear your suggestions.

Going to replace the bushings (where I can get at them) and I will try to dig up a new set of cheap multi leaf springs to replace the mono.

My Grandfather will be happy to know it’s not going anywhere; maybe I can give it to my grandkids.

Unless Comrade Pelosi has outlawed gasoline then.

[Cannonball]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I have been thinking long and hard about it and I am going to keep it and modify it.

I have had the opportunity to drive the car for several years now, and it even spent last summer in my garage. Unfortunately every time I drove it was kind of a boring experience, so I quit driving it. I want to keep it for sentimental reasons but it has got to get more exciting or it will be a dust collector for the rest of my life.

I am currently hip deep in my Camaro and have sunk to much money in it to do anything drastic with the mustang right now. There are lots of little things I can do to wake it up, and the first thing I am doing is pull that 289 and figure out why it is so tired. I agree with some of your comments that the 289 can be a hell of an engine.

The stock manifold and cam are probably the biggest problem, but being that I don't know much about the 289 I would love to hear your suggestions.

Going to replace the bushings (where I can get at them) and I will try to dig up a new set of cheap multi leaf springs to replace the mono.

My Grandfather will be happy to know it’s not going anywhere; maybe I can give it to my grandkids.

Unless Comrade Pelosi has outlawed gasoline then.

I suggest a 3:89/1 rear gear and an AOD transmission. Almost all of the 289 2V cars got a really low performance 2.8/1 ring and pinion.
The AOD gives you the same ratio 1st, 2nd and 3rd as the C-4 but you have an overdrive.
Find a 5.0 roller motor, pull the original motor and seal it up, put it in the corner. The HO 5.0 motor will run circles around the stocker 289 and is a drop-in.