need help with bolts.

[1badchevelle]

I have put new bushings in my front control arms. I would like to know it its okay to reuse the same bolts? I can get a new grade 8 bolts from work with no issue. Just wanted to have the stock one blasted and coat them with a teflon. Also it it okay to use regular grade 8 bolts for the upper control arms instead of the ribb bolts.

Thanks guys.

[JRouche]

I think you can re-use the bolts no problem. As long as you didnt make a stupid move like I did :)

Yeah, when I was building my front end the first time I needed to weld in some heavy walled tube and a gusset for the lower control arm. It is a mustang II suspension. So what did I do (this was back in 1997).

I put the bolt in along with the heavy spacer, control arm and gusset. Lined it all up and tightened the nut down so the hole would be centered. Tacked the tube and gusset on, making sure not to get it too hot cause the bushings were in place. I felt so good, here I am, installing a suspension. I removed the control arm then put the bolt back in to keep the tube and gusset from wandering as I laid the major heat down ( used spacers to simulate the control arms so I could tighten the nut down). I put the coals to the weld joints. It was hotter than HOT. Let her cool down and the bolt slipped right out. Yeah!!! Im doing great!! NOT!!!!!

I reassembled the car, but never drove it (thank god) cause life got in the way. Several years later I decided to change to an air ride suspension with the same control arms. And as I was working on it, and doing more welding (with a lil more knowledge by now) it hit me.. I ruined the original bolts!!!!

I know they got to a cherry red when I welded in my tube and gusset before. When I did that I took the bolt, a high carbon bolt to a critical temp and let it cool down slowly.

And really, it didnt take the worst course, like say I decided to quickly cool it. But IMO the bolt was still ruined. No longer a grade 8 bolt. Im glad I caught myself. I must have some peeps from above watching out.

Sorry for the long story.. I just think it helps some guys (not necessarily you, but maybe someone) if we show some examples of our mistakes then others can learn also.

Oh, and I kept the bolts. But sanded off the lines on the head so Ill know not to use it for any critical uses. In the bolt bin it went. JR

[1badchevelle]

Thanx. I will get all new grade 8 bolt from work and send them to the plated.

[Bryce]

hey if you are in LA, McFadendale has a lot of fasteners. Also, Marshalls hardware in san diego has stronger than grade 8.

[JRouche]

hey if you are in LA, McFadendale has a lot of fasteners. Also, Marshalls hardware in san diego has stronger than grade 8.

Id be a lil careful with the stronger than grade 8 bolt manufactures, or I should say dealers. I have looked high and low for bolts. And what I came up with is a slim supply. If you want a dependable made in the USA bolt.

I looked around the entire country first, looking for an aircraft bolt. NAS, MS or AN, whatever spec you want, all the same.. Finally found some in the diameter and length for the lower control arm. They were always 125$ a piece or more. Ouch. Was not gonna go with aircraft bolts. There is a reason the long, large diameter bolts in MS, NAS or AN arent available. The aircraft industry doesnt like to use a bolt as a pivot. They use bolts as they should be used, as fasteners.

But we are car guys, we sometimes need to use a long bolt as a fastener. Right or wrong. The aircraft folks dont use long bolts for a reason.

So I looked into the tractor industry. They have to make things to last. Otherwise they get a hot headed farmer or heavy equipment user ALL over them. So I really like the farm and heavy earth moving manufactures for my fasteners. I like CAT. They are local and I can buy one bolt at a time for not much money.

I also like PFC fasteners. My point, just know where your fastener was made. If they cant tell you (hardware store folks) then more than likely its an import. I wont buy an import fastener, not when the same size can be had for similar money and you know its made to some type of specs here in the states. JR

[LowBuckX]

You my friend put way to much thought into bolts...lol If 4 5/16 grade 5 bolts can hold a swinging engine and tranny from a carb plate screwed into and aluminum intake a 5/8 bolt used in double shear is not going to break under any load we will put on them unless that load is followed by an ambulance ride that is.... lol Just raggin on ya.


Id be a lil careful with the stronger than grade 8 bolt manufactures, or I should say dealers. I have looked high and low for bolts. And what I came up with is a slim supply. If you want a dependable made in the USA bolt.

I looked around the entire country first, looking for an aircraft bolt. NAS, MS or AN, whatever spec you want, all the same.. Finally found some in the diameter and length for the lower control arm. They were always 125$ a piece or more. Ouch. Was not gonna go with aircraft bolts. There is a reason the long, large diameter bolts in MS, NAS or AN arent available. The aircraft industry doesnt like to use a bolt as a pivot. They use bolts as they should be used, as fasteners.

But we are car guys, we sometimes need to use a long bolt as a fastener. Right or wrong. The aircraft folks dont use long bolts for a reason.

So I looked into the tractor industry. They have to make things to last. Otherwise they get a hot headed farmer or heavy equipment user ALL over them. So I really like the farm and heavy earth moving manufactures for my fasteners. I like CAT. They are local and I can buy one bolt at a time for not much money.

I also like PFC fasteners. My point, just know where your fastener was made. If they cant tell you (hardware store folks) then more than likely its an import. I wont buy an import fastener, not when the same size can be had for similar money and you know its made to some type of specs here in the states. JR

[Bryce]

JR, the hardware store was the place I worked as I was studying mechanical engineering, Actually i still work there on saturdays to help them out. But i did a lot of research on the fasteners and requested all the technical data sheets on them. I use them everywhere on my car. But they are 180,000 psi fasteners compared to grade 8 at 150,000psi. I also have the shear data for every size of their fasteners. Yes, they are american made. Which is one thing this hardware store strives for.

So we both love fasteners. I always enjoy a good fastener conversation.

[CarlC]

Another option is to use an aircraft bolt from Aircraft Spruce. For example, on stock lower A-arm applications the thread is in shear. Though the AS bolts are G5, if the correct bolt length is used the full-size shank can be used in double shear, hence making the connection stronger than OE. I have been using these fasteners for almost seven years with loads of track days with zero problems or concerns.

[JRouche]

JR, the hardware store was the place I worked as I was studying mechanical engineering, Actually i still work there on saturdays to help them out. But i did a lot of research on the fasteners and requested all the technical data sheets on them. I use them everywhere on my car. But they are 180,000 psi fasteners compared to grade 8 at 150,000psi. I also have the shear data for every size of their fasteners. Yes, they are american made. Which is one thing this hardware store strives for.

So we both love fasteners. I always enjoy a good fastener conversation.

Now thats a hardware store!!! To be honest, most dont hold true to the old standards of what a good hardware store should be. Yer a lucky man to have one of the real hardware stores servicing the town.

Just out of curiosity?? What bolts do they sell that are 180kpsi. Who is the manufacture of the bolts. Cause there are only a few manufactures making 180kpsi bolts these days.

Keep doing business with them, cause really, if we dont support out local suppliers they will go out of business and I HATE to see that. I support the local guys as much as I can. JR

[JRouche]

Another option is to use an aircraft bolt from Aircraft Spruce.

Been there, done that. They cant supply the bolt. Too large.

Like I said before. I looked ALL around the country. I went through a company that is tied into a national data base of aircraft parts. A 5/8" bolt is really large for an aircraft bolt, specially the length we are talking. Its the length that kills the deal.

Why?? Well cause aircraft bolts are usually only used for clamping, not pivot purposes. That long of a bolt doesnt have much use in the aircraft industry.

Long heavy bolts dont have a place in aircraft unless they are some very critical parts. And there comes the major cost of them, even certified surplus. 80 bucks a piece was the low end for aircraft bolts when I was looking. Thats nationally. JR

Oh, just to add. I talked to folks in NY, New Jersey, Colorado, New Mexico, So Cal and Nor Cal, Washington and yup, Minnesota. I was on the phone. And these were numbers given to me by a couple of national data base finders. And I did learn a lil with the whole deal. I never knew there was such a large database and companies that solely do this for a business. Finding parts..

[Bryce]

i am an engineer in the aerospace industry and we use large bolts for engine mounts. They cost about a grand a piece and are all serialized.

[LowBuckX]

What do world class race car builders use??? Anyone think to call ARP for bolts They do sell more than engine bolts...

[Bryce]

http://www.acument.com/northamerica/socket_screws.asp

here is a link to our fastener supplier.


From my memory, ARP used to make aerospace fasteners but didnt want to sacrifice quality for cost. But ARP is hard to buy single quantity fasteners from. But there products are fantastic and all the trick alloys they use is amazing. I wish i could buy singles and small quantities from them.

[6'9"Witha69]

FWIW, Berg's hardware in Pasadena has always seemed to have what I needed. If not, they told me where else I could find it. And sometimes more than just bolts/fasteners.

[1badchevelle]

WOW. Sorry I asked. Well I work for Anxiter. (ANIXTER.COM) and work with many OEM's. We also have a aerospace div. I was just asking if I could replace some of the bolts that are worn with grade 8 bolt and if thier was any issue using them on the suspension.

[Bryce]

Replace if worn, and grade 8 is okay for suspension.

[Twentyover]

What do world class race car builders use??? Anyone think to call ARP for bolts They do sell more than engine bolts...


Get Carol Smith's Nuts, Bolts, & Fasteners handbook http://www.carrollsmith.com/main.html , AKA Screw to Win after his Engineer, Tune, and Engieer to Win Series

[JRouche]

One of the biggest issues I had was finding a large enough bolt. For my lower control arms its a 12"x 5/8" bolt. They are not made that large by ARP or any other "performance " company. NAS, MS or any other aircraft bolts in that size are like hens teeth.

And IMO they ARE NOT needed. A quality grade 8 bolt of USA manufacture is well within the needs.

The use of aircraft bolts is IMO not needed and over kill on a car suspension. They may have been a source back a few years. When decent suppliers of quality fasteners was a problem. Not that they werent available. But just not as easy to find. The market has opened up alot with the marketing advantage of the internet.

High quality fasteners are easy to find now. No more scrounging the aircraft industry.

High quality fasteners for the chassis is no longer an issue. Now for the engine and drive train, YUP, I always turn to ARP. JR

[LowBuckX]

Get Carol Smith's Nuts, Bolts, & Fasteners handbook http://www.carrollsmith.com/main.html , AKA Screw to Win after his Engineer, Tune, and Engieer to Win Series
To rich for me Im happy with grade 8 seeing Ive not pulled one bolt from my car that was anybetter than grade 5. My car was wrecked sometime along time ago and some one peiced it together and Ive put 160,000 miles on it in the 14 years Ive had it. I try to replace everything I remove fastenerwise ...