Best front suspension?

[Motorcitydak]

I am looking to upgrade the front end of my muscle car to handle a lot better. It will be a street car that will hit the road course and auto cross stuff every chance I get. I am looking for a new front suspension for the car and do not know which one I should go with, Something from Art Morrison? Chris Alston G-Machine? Mustang 2 front end? C4 sytle front end? I dunno. What do you guys say? I am not looking to upgrade the factory stuff. I want a modern front end just like the back is going to be.

It is a '68 Charger, plans are for about a 3000# weight, full floating 9 inch rear with a 3 link, 315/35 17's on all corners, chassis reinforced with frame connectors, torque boxes and a cage.

I am also considering grafting the front end from a Viper or C4/5/6. Maybe the IRS rear too, just not sure about that part yet. I would really like to use manual steering tho. I am very early on in the build so I can take the car in any direction I want. I do know I want the car to carve up the corners tho and I know the 40 year old suspension is not going to cut it. I am sure there are more questions I should have answered to see what I should go with, so just let me know. I would really like to keep the 17 inch wheels tho so the brakes would have to fit in those.

[Mkelcy]

I am looking to upgrade the front end of my muscle car to handle a lot better. It will be a street car that will hit the road course and auto cross stuff every chance I get. I am looking for a new front suspension for the car and do not know which one I should go with, Something from Art Morrison? Chris Alston G-Machine? Mustang 2 front end? C4 sytle front end? I dunno. What do you guys say? I am not looking to upgrade the factory stuff. I want a modern front end just like the back is going to be.

It is a '68 Charger, plans are for about a 3000# weight, full floating 9 inch rear with a 3 link, 315/35 17's on all corners, chassis reinforced with frame connectors, torque boxes and a cage.

I am also considering grafting the front end from a Viper or C4/5/6. Maybe the IRS rear too, just not sure about that part yet. I would really like to use manual steering tho. I am very early on in the build so I can take the car in any direction I want. I do know I want the car to carve up the corners tho and I know the 40 year old suspension is not going to cut it. I am sure there are more questions I should have answered to see what I should go with, so just let me know. I would really like to keep the 17 inch wheels tho so the brakes would have to fit in those.

Please use the search function and then ask specific questions. There have been a few Mopar builds that should provide a good basis for questions.

[Bryce]

XV motorsports has some well engineering suspensions for mopars. Probably your best bet without engineering it yourself.

[autoxcuda]

XV motorsports has some well engineering suspensions for mopars. Probably your best bet without engineering it yourself.

If you looking for something super trick that would be the place to go.

I still think you are going to have a tough time getting down to 3000 lbs. It will take quite a bit of effort.

What is the current suspension setup/part list you are using now?

Manual steering and 315/35/17 might not be a good idea. There are some very good power steering systems out there that are pretty lightweight.

[judgnot]

Those are some big tires for the front, how in the world will they fit?

[MoparCar]

I'm a Mopar guy also. Not as many good economical choices for high end suspension in kit form.

Front:
XV just released a whole bunch of new Level II option price points. Based on C5/C6 LCAs and their own UCAs. I believe they use a late model Mustang rack. They have fit 285's on the stock front frame rails of B-body cars and their K-member but I'm to sure if they put limits on the stop-stop radius. Plan on notching the rails a bunch or new front clip. They run a wider than stock track width. $5,400-7,500 depending on options.

Reilly Motorsports Alterkation:
Modified Mustang II geometry. Very good reputation, truly a bolt on, lots of options. Probably the easiest install for a rack K-member.
Good price point. $4,300 or so.

Hotchkis has been releasing some very good stock modification kits. This may be the way to go if you want a stock steering box.

Chassisworks:
You will need to fab this clip in your frame rails. Lots of options and track widths. Set your ride height and weld. Good reputation for sure. $3,500-4,500 depending on options.

Art Morrison:
They will do a front C6 based bikini short clip you can splice in to your frame rails. Also a complete clip, but not bolt in. Both of these will generally require you to fabricate new core support mounts and new inner fenders as they move the rails in to accomadate the C6 control arms. About $5,000

Art Morrison Max G Chassis:
Full fabrication required, everything on the floor, inner fenders, etc. new, custom exhaust, custom everything.....but a low low ride height. $11,500-13,000 depending on options, brakes, etc. but includes the rearend and rear suspension. Actually a very good deal.

Jakes Rod Shop:
Jake makes an awesome C6 front clip for Camaro's but you could adapt/graft it. Jake's knows his stuff and his rear torque arm could be modified also. Call him and he'll talk options. Truly pointing towards performance over comfort. Nice Bilstein shocks, etc. About $5,500

I've been researching all of my options for my Challenger so I've invested some time in research and calling the manufacturers and then measuring and plotting the install. I have not decided yet. I'd love to do the Max G Chassis but as a home builder I'm not certain if I have the guts to do it! There aren't any truly high end bolt in front clips like Chevy guys have with AME, DSE, Speedtech, etc. XV is the probably the nearest in high tech, but I'm not certain you can get a low ride height with there geometry in stock form.

Keep in mind on most Mopars if you put on very large front tires and drop it much you start hitting the frame rails on lock to lock and also the inner fender brace that goes to the cowl on the inside of the fender. I had mine set on stands at a 5.5" ride height (thinking Max G chassis-lowest point) to the rockers and basically with a typical 26" tire on the front I'd better get out the plasma and make some clearance on the inner fenders.

The same companies have similiar options for the rear. The AME 3-link is nice for a clip if you don't mind some fab.

Hope this helps or give some ideas. It seems lately I read more books and surf more sights for ideas than building the car. I wish we Mopar guys had more high end choices. ***Anyone listening???

Wes

[Motorcitydak]

I am serious about that weight. I have a fiberglass front end rite now. The fenders weigh about 5 pounds a piece and the hood is maybe 10. That saves me around 120# or so. The motor will be a 5.7 Hemi which is around 200# lighter than the 400 the car came with. The interior will be gutted with no heat or a/c. The seats will be removed to drop weight on track days. The dash will be fiberglass as well as the rear quarters. I obviously am going for a 50/50 weight distribution and as light as possible. I know a racing Challenger that got to 3000# and they start out at 36-3800 depending on who you believe. That car was raced back in the '70's so I am hoping to do better in the weight department.

Thanks for the break down there Wes, Ive been scouring the web over the recently trying to figure out what to do myself.

I am planning on a 3 link rear with coilovers. I am not worried about doing that part. I will just make that setup myself and save the $2000 for the front end.

As for the tires, I want then to be as wide as possible. I do not mind reworking the inner fenders or maybe a little bit of the front frame rails since they will be reinforced anyways. I have a pair of junk 315/35 16's that I am using for mock up. I made some rim simulators so I can mount them to my hubs and see just how they will fit. They are mostly for the rear so I can finally get the width of my rear axle. Ill also put em on the front to see if they can go on up there too. I have those glass fenders and I am planning on putting a flare on em, I am just not too sure how much will be needed yet. I will then build the rear to match it.

After all my searching, I am leaning heavily towards the hotchkis front end. They have those sweet upper control arms, strut rods, bushings and sway bar. They have a rear setup also, but I obviously will not be able to use that part. They put this setup into that T/A Challenger they built and it does awesome in the autocross with a 340 6 pack and a manual trans. It has been beating cars with the alter k tion and more power. It seems simple enough. Im not sure what to use yet for a steering box, probabily a firm feel unit. Does anyone know what Hotchkis did for the LCA's? I have never seen that part addressed in any write up's on it. Did they just leave it stock? I keep meaning to just call em up and talk about it for a while, but keep forgetting until it is too late. Also, they pretty much left the rest of that car stock. If I do all their stuff and strip a ton of weight off mine and add their badass suspension, Ill have one sweet ride.

I am just not sure about using the torsion bars they have in the kit. Since I am taking so much weight off the front end, I am thinking that maybe a different (smaller) diameter torsion bar should be used. That is another great thing that I should discuss with those guys if I ever got around to calling em...

So as far as I can figure, the plan rite now is the XV motorsports b body stiffening kit and the hotchkis setup up front. It seems like a great way to go

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

wordup!

[autoxcuda]

They put this setup into that T/A Challenger they built and it does awesome in the autocross with a 340 6 pack and a manual trans. It has been beating cars with the alter k tion and more power. It seems simple enough. Im not sure what to use yet for a steering box, probabily a firm feel unit. Does anyone know what Hotchkis did for the LCA's? I have never seen that part addressed in any write up's on it. Did they just leave it stock?

I have picture of the underneath of it. IIRC, it just has stiffening plates. I just run some 1" strap in three locatons to connect the sides of the LCA. It's lighter than the stiffening plates which about half the material overlaping the flange of the LCA.


I am just not sure about using the torsion bars they have in the kit. Since I am taking so much weight off the front end, I am thinking that maybe a different (smaller) diameter torsion bar should be used. That is another great thing that I should discuss with those guys if I ever got around to calling em...

3000 lbs is a lot lighter than a 68-70 Charger. But it still no featherweight. I'd still run at least .99 T-bars. With the seriousness of you combination, I still think 1.10 to 1.22".

The E-Street Prepared Solo II autocross 3000-3200 lbs Challenger T/A of Mitch Lelito runs 1.24" maxed out T-bar. He has placed top 5 at Solo II Nationals with fields 40-60 cars in the class from all over the country.

[T_Raven]

Sounds like a sweet build. Let's see some pics of what you've got so far

[Hotchkis]

MotorCitydak -

Thanks for your interest in our systems and in the e-max Challenger. As you mentioned, our Challenger is one of the fastest cars in the GG
autocross series and THE fastest Mopar. We've got tons of time spent on our own and other cars. John Schneider used Hotchkis parts
on his General Lee before the full kit even existed.

The Hotchkis system (on both the Challenger and a B-Body) has been track tested nearly a dozen times, we've thrashed on the track and autocross and more and our cars have been incredibly fast. In fact, at the GG Nats in Columbus the Challenger was one of the fastest cars on the autocross, PERIOD. The only cars that were faster were a race-prepped Cobra that weighed 1,000 pounds less and a race-prepped Camaro with 700hp and a NASCAR driver at the wheel. Several Mopars also competed that day, but none came close. As for whether the other kits on the market have been as rigorously tested to hold up during high-performance track conditions, well.... we
haven't seen them, maybe they were behind us.

Our system bolts on, doesn't require you to gut your car, and offers incredible performance. When we let Jay Leno drive the e-max he was so pumped he's putting a system on his own Hemi Challenger.

Leno drives e-max
(http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/muscle-cars/1970-hotchkis-dodge-challenger-340-ta/)
To answer your specific questions:

We have stock lower control arms on the car.

We are using 1.12 torsion bars. If you have a fiberglass front end and lightweight engine, that will most likely be too stiff. We really like Firm Feel's torsion bars also, and the guys at Firm Feel can help you identify which size bars would be best, but most likely 1”

Anytime you have questions, please call us, or PM me on the forums. We're happy to talk with you and we like hearing about your projects.

[Motorcitydak]

I have tons of pics of the car. It is not very far along yet. I just got it in June. Here are a few of it

The tires I want to run are 315's. These are some junk 315/35 16's. I built a rim simulator for em from a 2x4

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/tires017-1.jpg

This is the latest pic I have of the car. I had to cut off the old cowl because someone cut a big hole in the grill. I got that one and had it sand blasted and painted with epoxy primer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/1120092155a_0002-1.jpg

This is the car as I bought it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/zzzz-1.jpg

This is the fiberglass hood I have for it. I do not have a picture yet of the fenders.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/allmine-1.jpg

Here is the link to my photobucket, there are pages of pics of my car in there

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/motorcitydak/?start=0

Hotchkis, I hope you guys are ready to defend that fastest Mopar thing in a few years. I called up tonite and talked for a while about my project and your Challenger. Ive decided to use all your front end components and the rear sway bar. Your car will most likely have better brakes since I cannot afford 8 piston calipers, but my car will have more power and will weigh less. If that thing ever comes near Michigan, it is on!

[Hotchkis]

"Hotchkis, I hope you guys are ready to defend that fastest Mopar thing in a few years. I called up tonite and talked for a while about my project and your Challenger. Ive decided to use all your front end components and the rear sway bar. Your car will most likely have better brakes since I cannot afford 8 piston calipers, but my car will have more power and will weigh less. If that thing ever comes near Michigan, it is on!"

Bring it!

Seriously though, that would be a fantastic race. I'm really glad you were able to get your questions answered. Keep us updated on all your progress, and call us anytime for more information, or moral support.