68 firebird w/ 600+ hp whats the best way to go

[transamguy79]

need help figuring out what trans, stall converter, mods, etc.. that will hold up with a 461 stroker in my firebird.

[ProdigyCustoms]

As I mentioned in your suspension post, need more information on what your going to do with the car. tehe ideal drag race converter makes a horrific autocross converter, and vice versa.

[transamguy79]

you'll see when you see the suspension post but for everyone else. its going to be mainly street use with the occasional strip run. i want to try for a 9's second street car.

[Jake's Performance]

I think a 4L80E is your best choice. 200-4R is your 2nd choice.

[Roadrage David]

Chek the post i made on your 461 stroker post i put my you tube clips there 2004r 192 mph performs perfect

[transamguy79]

ok. what stall coverter should i be running with the 200-4r

[jknight16]

Seems to me that a lack of budget would be the only reason to forego the electronic control of a 4l80E in favor of a 200R4. Plus, I would think repeated 9 sec quarter miles (slicks?) will require strength beyond what a 200R4 will provide in the long run.

[tonykim]

check out this link. bowtieoverdrives 700R4 for up to 630 hp street strip. they also have one for strip. http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=9

[transamguy79]

i was just recommended the 200-4r but if it the 4l80e is alot better ill go with that. what converter should i run with it?

[Roadrage David]

People like to talk in ecseses al the time!! 4l80 this and bla bla . how manny of them actualy had a PROPERLY build tr2004r in there car with proper cooling and tv cabel set up.

you mostly hear the mythologicel horror story,s from second hands and ore from people who instaled them wrong ore build them thereselfs. plenty of 4l80e transmissions who brake as wel...

I have a very small bisenis and our slogan is
""we test the crap out of the parts we sell""
our car is a demo car and we trash the thing. trying to make a point!!its actualy making quiet a name for itself.
if i would have belived al the horror storys, then my engine would have blown up useing the comp cam magnum roller TIP rokkers reving them to 6200 rpm, my tr2004r would have ecsploded in sutch a way that my car would have broke in 2 .

the horse power torque ratings on these Bowtie overdrives are based on the strip grip. im driving my car the same way as transamguy79 whants to do.
the tr2004r can be beefed up to take lots of horse power, but at a sirten level the prize wil be so high that your beter of buying a big and heavy 4l80e .. WHO IS STRONGER FROM THE BASE
my level 3 is build for 630hp/torque. im upgrading it to 730 hp for a aditional 800usd. in that price range a 4l80e would be a beter choice, but not beacuse the tr2004r cant be strong enoughf to take it
this little light tr2004r is doing a perfect job! and beter then i ever askt for.
No beter feeling when you manual use that Hurst quarter stik pistol grip shifter going up and douwn the gears with this mecanicel transmission . and beat the crap out of a Auston Martin vantage at 192mph!!!!, mabey im old fasion but no peddle shifting ore fansy computer for me on the stearing wheel!!.

if i would whant al that kind of stuf il buy a porshe ore a ferrari!!ORE the Auston Martin
I do apresiate and use al the mecanicel afthermarked stuff!!.
i gues thats why my car is called a "STREET FIGHTER"":1st:

PS i drive a 2400 SD stal converter changing to a 2600 ED converter with the new engine

[Jake's Performance]

The problem with the 200-4R is, that at the 600 HP/TQ level it is a $2000 transmission. It requires several billet components and a deep pan that add to the price.

The 4L80E comes in about the same price but it is inherently strong.

Electronic controls are a good thing. Tuning shift points and shift feel by punching a few keys is a pleasure compared to pulling the pan off, dropping the governor and possibly valve body to get it.

[Roadrage David]

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=13


http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog_inc/viewitem.php?ITEMID=651

Jake besides that both Transmissions need converters and the other parts the 4l80e needs a compu shift ad a exstra 1000$$ witch makes it 1500 usd diferens is pretty big if you ask me.
i dont cal that evenly priced!!. as for the elec stuff as i stated above didnt need it beating up one of the modern greats. its a personal thing.

[Jake's Performance]

There are lower cost options than the Compushift for controlling a 4L80E. There is also the full manual VB setup for a 4L80E.

I am very well versed in 200-4R's. I have them running reliably in the low-mid 10's in Grand Nationals. You won't hear of that from Bowtie Overdrives. They can't even figure out that the band in a 200-4R is not a "2-4 band".

However I am a professional performance transmission builder as well as a realist. The 200-4R will never be as strong as the 4L80E. The converter cost is the same.

You can easily spend $400 setting up a TV cable and brackets and lockup on a 200-4R. That is a good part of the way towards a controller that makes life much simpler.

I do these retrofits often. TH350, PG, TH400's being replaced by 200-4Rs, 4L80E's, 700's, etc.

I occasionally even do an AOD or 4R70W retrofit into the Ford stuff.

I make my recommendations based on the experience as a builder as well as installer. I can build a 4L80E for 1500 HP. 700 HP is putting the screws to a 200-4R.

600 is definitely doable, but I wouldn't trust a BTO trans at that level. I would recommend using a unit built by any of the reputable builders in the TurboBuick community.
600 requires a billet forward drum and a pretty serious program with the hydraulics for 3rd gear to be ultimately reliable. Only about 10-12 guys in the States are in this league.

[transamguy79]

now honestly would i be better off with auto or manual? I can't decide which one i wanna go with.

[thethirstymoose]

I also have a 68 firebird, I bored the block.60 over running ross pistons, comp cam but I went with a ford 9in for the back end just because of their strength. I ditched my old tranny because there was no way i would work with the new motor, I was doubling the horsepower, so I now have a tremec TKO 600

[67bird]

I think you really need to narrow down what you want out of the car. I think from personal experience, that unless motor is blown, a 9 sec. naturally aspirated deal is a little over the top for a street/strip deal. That being said, you will have to make comprimises. A 9 sec. ride will need a decent size converter. I personally would go TKO-600 or T56-Magnum along with a nice dual disc clutch set-up. I say this after riding and driving several cars with 3500+ stall converters on the street. If I had to pick an auto at 600 HP, then it would be an 4l80E. Now if you get into three speeds, then I will go with a Kilgore TH400 with his gearset.

[Steve Chryssos]

Each transmission has its fan club. The 200-R4 crowd is more loyal than most. Extreme performance is possible. But the performance is rarely correlated to reliability or cost. Someone posts a video of a Grand National making one 8 sec run with a 200-4R and all 200's must be bulletproof. But that video doesn't show how long the trans will last or how much it costs.

At the end of the day torque capacity comes down to the weakest link. Parameters like shaft diameter or material thickness tell the tale. The 4L80E, like the TH400 is beefier than any other option. 600HP or 600Ft-Lbs of torque is extremely reasonable for the 4L80E. If you are not prone to gambling, you might pick the 80. And computer tuning is a great benefit. Once you've tried an electronic trans that's tuned for your exact driving style and vehicle specs, you'll never go back to pre-electronic.

As for converters, there is absolutely no need for high stall speed if the unit is engineered properly. One of our house cars just ran 9.98@137 with one of our MuscleDrive 4l80E billet converters at 3000 stall.
Details here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61349

[DeltaT]

When you start making serious power, the lesson of "Overbuild and Understress" pays off very quickly. To say nothing of the sense of security and safety of knowing that your entire drivetrain can handle anything you can throw at it. Add in the programmability and the 4L80E is hard to beat. Plus it will give you some headroom for when you get beat and want to add nitrous or a blower!

Jim

[MarkB]

I am coming in late on this one. 1st I want to tell you that I am here to help members out, not push towards anyones products or beat anyone down. If you have specific questions, please feel free to PM and I will help give you advise.
I do want to let you know that 200-4R transmissions are great and can be built to handle 800 + ft lbs of torque with out any issues. But trust me when I tell you to do so it takes several $$ to do it correctly. I agree with Steve at Twist, once you experience a properly built electronic transmission with a controller you will never go any other way. With that said, I would advise on the 4L80E if you are going with an automatic. The 4L80E will actually be more affordable than a 200-4R if built with the correct componets. If you are considering a manual, then go with the T-56 Magnum.
As far as stall, either way, keep the lock-up and you will have to look at your cam spec, tire size, gear ratio, torque curve of engine and weight of the vehicle. But no reason to run a loose converter, keep it as tight as you can to maintain good driveablity on a roadcourse or autocross. Just do your homework and you will be happy. The people on this site are great and won't guide you wrong!

Should be a great car! Good luck.

Thanks,
Mark

[pitts64]

I'd use a TH-400 with a 2.75 low gear set, Continental converter and a 2 series rear end... I bought my low gear set from CK Performance up in NY.. http://www.ckperformance.com/


That 461 will make tremendous amounts of torque.. The RA-4 hyd cam would also be an excellent choice for a street cam...

Remember most don't understand that the term "street" in Pa means hills. Big hills! Your going to go through a chevette transmission like it was made from cheese with that big Poncho in Pennsylvania...

Get the Th-400 and enjoy climbing those Alleghenies...

[pitts64]

BTW, Cliff of Cliffs Quadrajets can build you a nice Turbo 400 and help set your Poncho up right..

He is right over in Ohio...

http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

[pitts64]

I drove a few 5 and 6 speeds with big Pontiacs motors in front of them.. Total waste of money in my book... You don't need to "buzz" a big Pontiac like a small block... Just my Opinion...