Bullets "tumble" from Kimber .45....?

[Samckitt]

Last night I went to the range with my Kimber .45 & shot at targets at 10, 20, & 30 yards. Overall it is very accurate, and much more accurate than the S&W .357 mag, Glock .40 & Walther .380 that the other guys brought. But from the looks of the holes in the target it seems like the bullet is tumbling instead of just spinning like a football. The .357 mag was a nice round hole instead of ripped of that of my .45. Has anyone else with a .45 seen this, is it normal, or will different bullets change this? I used Winchester ones I got at Wal-Mart. Not hollow point, just round nose. Can't remember the specs of them at the moment, I will have to look when I get home.

Thanks

[Damn True]

WAG here but...

I'm guessing it has a fair bit to do with the fact that one round is supersonic and the other is subsonic.

.357 ~ 1200-1600ft/s
.45ACP ~ 800-1000ft/s

[Nine Ball]

My Kimber .45 always leaves much bigger holes than my Glock .40 guns. It is very accurate though, I enjoy shooting with the Kimber. I don't see it tumbling, it just shreds paper (and anything else) a bit more.

[cheapthrillz]

230 gr sub-sonic fmj..... As long as it's accurate, does it matter? lol

[Samckitt]

Maybe that is it then it just makes a bigger hole. The 357 looked like it was done with a big hole punch & my 45 the paper is ripped. But like you said, it is accurate. No problems hitting a 6" bullseye at 20 yards & could do it at 30 yards, just not as tight as a pattern.

[wmhjr]

45acp jacketed rounds will make a more rough hole in paper targets. That's why bullseye shooters typically shoot semi-wadcutters. Cleaner holes in the targets. There's nothing wrong with your Kimber. I've got a Kimber Ultra Elite but mainly shoot my Les Baer Premier II. Kimber gets jacketed rounds. Baer gets my own loads of 200gr LSWC from Penn.

[vyking67]

i have been shooting for years. and at the current time have a glock 21 has my main handgun ... and for the most part yes.. the 45 caliber round does tumble.. its not as much a tumble but more a wobble... there are a lot of factors that contribute to this but the round itself is short stubby and basically more oblong than the typical bullett shape..

not to mention the fact that it might say 230gr. on the box but theses are mass produces ammunition and i have found that some rounds espically reloads or walmart type have a diffrence as much as +/- 20 gr. .. some were packed like crazy and some barely had enought to get it out of the barrell... ( not really but you ge tthe point ) . when i match shoot i only do it with the rounds i load..

you really have nothing to worry about most get a 45 for stopping power not range.. and this wobble/tumble has little to no effect up to about 75 yards i have found..

[Damn True]

Scott,

If that Kimber is bumming you out I'll take it off your hands.

[PonchoJohn]

I thought the tumble was the "hole" point of a .45? I shoot an XD9- straight and accurate, but I know a .45 would be straight and BIG!!
My brother (military) can't stand the "toy" guns (9mm) they are issued, he wants his M1911 back. Personal preference, I guess?

[Samckitt]

Scott,

If that Kimber is bumming you out I'll take it off your hands.

Not bumming me out. LOL. Actually thinking about getting another one. One of the other guys who had a glock is now searching the Kimber website & is going to buy one.

[Blown353]

Is the bullet actually keyholing (tumbling and going through the target sideways occasionally)? If this is the case you will usually see sideways "cutouts" of the bullet in the paper. Funny, but certainly not accurate.

If your targets indicate the gun is accurate it's probably not keyholing but just tearing ragged holes in the paper. Some bullet profiles do this; others are specifically shaped to punch very round holes (i.e. wadcutters or semi-wadcutters leave nearly perfect circular cutouts in the paper.)

Keyholing is often a sign of a shot-out barrel but sometimes certain bullet/load combinations don't agree with a given barrel (even a new barrel) and they will tumble and keyhole. They'll also hit all over the place as their trajectory is in no way stable.


45acp jacketed rounds will make a more rough hole in paper targets. That's why bullseye shooters typically shoot semi-wadcutters. Cleaner holes in the targets. There's nothing wrong with your Kimber. I've got a Kimber Ultra Elite but mainly shoot my Les Baer Premier II. Kimber gets jacketed rounds. Baer gets my own loads of 200gr LSWC from Penn.

Exactly.

[MikeDVC]

Just my 2 cents; I have been reloading handgun ammunition (including 45 acp) for over 15 years. Typically tumbling bullets are the result of "not enough crimp" on the casing.

The "crimp" is what holds the bullet in the brass shell (or case). Seen as a small rim on the very top of the casing; where the casing and bullet meet. When the crimp is no tight enough, this could cause tumbling. One test is to take a round, place the tip of the bullet on a hard surface (and the primer end of the case pointing upward), and try pushing down on the round. If the bullet moves up into the casing, then there is clearly not enough crimp.

I would suggest experimenting with different manufacture's rounds for that pistol; in order to see which one works the best.

[Steven]

We use the same round for pratice on the PD. The holes you describe are normal for round nose bullets. If the round was doing anything else, you would not have a good pattern.

[MonzaRacer]

I still love my Ruger P90 .45 auto. But thats me. And hope to add in a XD compact .45 soon.

[69Pony]

I shoot an HK USP .45 and for the range I use Winchester Eagle red box 230g FMJ rounds and notice some ragged edges as opposed to the holes the weany little 9m my buddy shoots.

However, if I shoot the Lake City 185g FMJ match loads the holes are much less ragged. I also agree with the poster about semi wad cutters. Their holes are very crisp.

A few years back I was at a shoot down at Ft. Belvoir in Va. Because of the location there was a lot of LEO, FBI and DEA shooters in the mix. One little wisp of a woman (FBI recruit) was shooting a Kimber Super 38. Man was that thing accurate. She ended up winning the whole thing. I placed 3rd....

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/target_0728/


I find it interesting that the Kimber was more accurate than a S&W 357. Normally, a J frame with out shoot a semi-auto any day. The S&W 357 is one of the most accurate guns I've ever shot - other than a target .22 with halo-dot.