3Link Suspension build. LowBuckX style..

[LowBuckX]

I will first answer some questions

1 All cuts are ruff cut will be straight later
2 Yes my under carriage is a mess that is my winter project
3 I will answeryour questions the best I can so shoot and be nice...lol
4 I welded everything and made everything short of digging the iron for the steel.
5 for you low buck guys find a local industrial supply store that buys lots of unused material and sells it cheap. I have one near me and got the tube and plate at a steal.
6 super joints are sphon and rubber joints came from Portcityracing ($20 each cheapest around)
7 Yes that is paneling in my garage at least its not gravel floors
here is a full view of what is going on so far. My center mounted panhard will be the new rage.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/3linkall.jpg/)
Here is my upper link as viewed through the trunk
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/uplinkthrough.jpg/)
Upper link axle mount
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/upperlinkmount.jpg/)

Here is my low link mount and link 9/16 ubolts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

here is the front support for the upper link to stop it from rotating on the axle tube.. I dont think I needed it because the axle clamp holds crazy tight with just being finger tight.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here is the start of my Upper link x-member its not welded yet no holes drilled ETC. My goal was to not loose back seat or much fab to get seat in. I think I will hit that goal

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Bryce]

awesome. Im definetly going to follow this and get some ideas.

[LowBuckX]

awesome. Im definetly going to follow this and get some ideas.
That makes one of you.. lol

[driftinblzr]

That's close to what I'm planning to do. I'm thinking of going with a diff bracket for my upper link instead. I'm still trying to plan out how to do my coilovers and finalize some other issues. I'm calculating about 49.88% AS with a IC length of 67" with my current measurements.

Later, Doug

[LowBuckX]

a couple more x member pics

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The bolts are temps till I do final weld. Most likely will leave em in for added POM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

That's close to what I'm planning to do. I'm thinking of going with a diff bracket for my upper link instead. I'm still trying to plan out how to do my coilovers and finalize some other issues. I'm calculating about 49.88% AS with a IC length of 67" with my current measurements.

Later, Doug
I like the Idea and tossed it around a bit but the upper link mount was to much for me to fab up and no one offers one like they do for your diff bolt pattern. Its more oval than mine.

[Bryce]

haha. Maybe some people are scared of home built projects. when its so easy to buy a great rear suspension for a camaro.

i like your ideas. I am not yet convinced on the offset link. But in theory it seems to work. i only wonder about the roll about an offset axis. would it get different handling when roll to the right vs roll to the left. would it need a stiffer springs on one side. Or how about the sway bar stiffer in one direction over the other. i am just thinking out loud.

[Bryce]

here is my housing

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/tn_full_08042009062jpg_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/455839)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/tn_full_72909_005jpg_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/455840)

Yes, It still has leafs. Im working out the upper coilover mounts, sway bar, and lateral locating device.

[formula]

sick sick sick sick sick!! Another lowbuckx masterpiece on the way--I wish I had half the talent (and tools haha) that you do!

[Rhino]

I've thrown this same thought around as well.
How much intrusion do you think you have into the seat area? What is your upper link length, or how does it compare with your lowers?

[Bryce]

Rhino,

Mine is a center mount upper link. upper link is 14" no rear seat intrusion. the lowers are 22.5. not quite the 2/3 ratio rule. But close. i also will have an antisquat of 50%-150%

[driftinblzr]

no one offers one like they do for your diff bolt pattern. Its more oval than mine.

Do you have the 8.5" 10 bolt? My Blazer has a factory 8.5" 10 bolt and suicidedoors.com has a diff bracket for the 8.5" 10 bolts than come in the S-series. You need a wishbone style upper link to use it though.

Later, Doug

[68Formula]

Subscribed!

[LowBuckX]

I've thrown this same thought around as well.
How much intrusion do you think you have into the seat area? What is your upper link length, or how does it compare with your lowers?
I have 3 1/2" intrution but it looks to be behind the upper seat section or right where upper n lower meet.

Upper is 18 lower are 25

Do you have the 8.5" 10 bolt? My Blazer has a factory 8.5" 10 bolt and suicidedoors.com has a diff bracket for the 8.5" 10 bolts than come in the S-series. You need a wishbone style upper link to use it though.



Later, Doug
Hmm I called them and they said it would not fit. I was going to modify it to not be wish bone.

[LowBuckX]

2x3 x.125 fits over stock frame section perfect. I will be adding 4 or 5 plug welds around the mount area on top of fully welding the u channel. I used a blue LED flash light ti highlight some of the shaded areas since I dont have a photo studio and the LEDs added some shine to the bare steel... sorta cool.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

Proof that prefitting is a good thing... Need more clearance on my mounts to clear spring retainer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img410.imageshack.us/i/shockmount3.jpg/)

[CRead01]

looking good. I am building a triangulated 4 link for mine right now and you have given me some good idea's.

Is that your final lower mount for the coilover? I was thinking of doing mine that way but wasn't sure if the offset would be too much for the bolt.

[LowBuckX]

Im going to make a mount that will make the bolt double shear. Wish QA1 used 5/8 bolt mounts here

Some thing like these but different.. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[T_Raven]

Nice fabbage. As much as I like the quality pieces being sold, a good home built set up is always more impressive.

[brrymnvette]

Subscribed. Looks great. Giving me ideas.

[gmcdermit1]

This is what I was thinkin about doin, a little ingenuity and a welder, great things can happen. Looks awesome.

[jaybee]

Nice fabbage. As much as I like the quality pieces being sold, a good home built set up is always more impressive.

That's what always gets my attention also. Nice job.

[rlplive]

I dig it. Subscribed.

[raf0419]

Very nice! Truly a killer home build.

Who knew all that inspiration could come from Sesame Street placemats!?

[LowBuckX]

Very nice! Truly a killer home build.

Who knew all that inspiration could come from Sesame Street placemats!?
They speak to me....

[Bryce]

i like it!

[terryr]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif



Nice work.
I don't think this bracket is very sturdy. I can imagine both ends flexing. But like you said, it shouldn't be needed. Stitch weld the bracket to the rear end in a few places.
Or the front rod end could be bolted right onto the pumpkin, and the rear tab moved 90 degrees with the hole up and down.

[LowBuckX]

Terryr I tryed it your way and it put the link at a strange angle that wouldnt be very strong. right now alls this is for is to aid in stopping the link bracket from rotating on the axle tube and the angle I have it at should be strong enough. All that hardware is 5/8.

[LowBuckX]

Ive been slowly making progress. Wish I had machines in my garage not at work this would go alot faster.

Here is what I came up with for lower shock mounts. My first ones just wouldnt cut it. Now Im double sheer on the coil over mount and a couple hot tacks will hold it inplace along with the center bolt.

Upper mount is now welded into the car and relearning MIG on over head welds was fun including setting myself on fire...:1st:

lower mounts
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

Changed design

[MSTSFabbed]

Looks really good! Very clean fab and your welds look awesome! Is that 1/4 inch plate for the shock mounts? How much do those guys weigh? It seems the panhard bracket will see a good bit of force as well but it looks smaller than the other brackets. Just observing and typing out loud... haha.

[LowBuckX]

shock trailing arm mounts are 1/4 but the thick base pad is 3/8 . The panhard mount will see alot of force and the drop will be plated reinforced and have a brace from drop to opposite framrail...

[LowBuckX]

Looks really good! Very clean fab and your welds look awesome! Is that 1/4 inch plate for the shock mounts? How much do those guys weigh? It seems the panhard bracket will see a good bit of force as well but it looks smaller than the other brackets. Just observing and typing out loud... haha.
Ok got weights for ya Trailing arm/shock mounts are 6 lbs each which is heavy but worth my peice of mind. But the upper link mount is 12 pounds wow.... Its going on a diet tonight.....

Im rethinking my panhard bracket yea I think its no strong enough like you eluded to.

[78 Type-LT]

nice work............:1st:

[Motown 454]

Awesome fab work .

[MSTSFabbed]

Just read back through more carefully and saw your mention of the cross brace, sorry I missed that first go. Those are pretty heavy but like you said, peace of mind is a beautiful thing! Probably better to over build then under build.

[LowBuckX]

Ok people who are following I have made my panhard mounts and here they are. Some of the welds look a bit jacked because I used a 110 mig to get everything secure so I could take it to work to finish with a tig... PS Im using a Hammer tone paint and it looks damn good..

Here is the Axle side mount. It is bolted in two spots onto the trailingarm mount and then secured to the axle via a tube clamp
Im mulling over making another support going tward center of the axle but It maybe unneeded this is very stout and stable as is...Opinions welcome..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Another view I had to mod a bushing set I had laying around to take a 3/4 bolt.. I bored it out and made the sleeve with grease gooves in it..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
This one is showing the triangulation. Altho it is minimal it all I could get. The clamp is right at the brake caliper bracket and the slider box gives the tire 1 inch of clearance..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/panhard5.jpg/)

Here is the clamp heim and double adjuster (QA1 adj12-12) for the PH bar frame side mount. I made the clamp to use a 3/4 3/4 heim but changed my mind and used a 3/4 5/8 heim for the strength factor. That is the reason for the reducers but it worked out for the best because I was able to make the misalignment washer built in to the reducers for a pretty nice finished product...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

BTW I wasnt a huge beleiver in the strength of clamping devices till I started this build Ive done testing on the axle clamps and the Aluminum Panhard mount and Im astonished at the hold strength these things have...

[T_Raven]

I love Patrick! lol

[larknut]

Looking forward to seeing it all completed. Keep up the progress.

[Jasons72]

This is looking great! giving me lots of ideas. You are swaying me from my idea of a 4 link to a 3 link. I can't wait to see what this all looks like when its together. Did you do your welding to the axle tubes with the axle under the car? I guess i'm more curious if its safe to weld anything to the axle tube as long as there is no weight on it.

[LowBuckX]

In not welding anything to the axle tube everything is clamped....For the reasons you are afraid of..

[Bryce]

im also using clamp on coilover and shock mounts, but i put in a 1/2-20 shear bolt that is threaded through the clamp into the axle tube. It looks really good.

[1971CHEVELLE]

Looks great:1st:

[LowBuckX]

Here are some panhard pics.. The urethane mount is not going to be a perminate thing I dont like it I will replace sometime before spring.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Panhard look real high in this pic because of the angle Im sitting. Its adjusable from 2inch below center to 4 inch below axle center line...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here is a basic idea of how the fame drop will be secured

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/URL]
[/img]

[LowBuckX]

added brace for panhard.. https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/pandhardbrace.jpg/)

[CRead01]

No offense to your paint but you are doing such a nice job with everything have you thought about taking it apart and getting it powdercoated? just think under the car the paint will chip up easy.

[Bryce]

the hammertone paints are extremely tuff. I have a few things on my underbody painted with that and i have no chips. Its not a daily driver but it sees a lot of driving.

[LowBuckX]

No offense to your paint but you are doing such a nice job with everything have you thought about taking it apart and getting it powdercoated? just think under the car the paint will chip up easy.
No offence taken. I had the trailing arms coated and the price is just out of my Lowbuck range to do it all. I could at some point have in all blasted and coated but its not priority. Trailing arms are silver just protected under tape..

[LowBuckX]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img509.imageshack.us/i/panhardbracefinished.jpg/)

[Motorcitydak]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, Im new to the pro touring scene. Ive been in the off roading world for years and have built my own front 3 link on my truck, but it has completely different goals and expectations like 14 inches of travel/articulation. Anyways, so your axle side track bar bolt is allowed to travel up and down at will when you are driving? I do not see anything that you will be using to secure it in one place unless you are just going to tighten the bolt in one location and hope it stays there

[LowBuckX]

yes tighten that sucker up and its not moving. Dirt track as well as assphalt guys run a simular set up called a slider box. Also nascar runns a slotted mount. When you see the crew guy sticking a ratchet in the back window and turning something he is adjusting the height of the panhard.

Here is a NASCAR type panhard mount.. It is grooved but on single shear like most Ive seen...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/p160555_image_large-1.jpg

[LowBuckX]

new panhard bar and support for the frame drop

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/completepanhard.jpg/)

[Bjkadron]

yes tighten that sucker up and its not moving. Dirt track as well as assphalt guys run a simular set up called a slider box. Also nascar runns a slotted mount. When you see the crew guy sticking a ratchet in the back window and turning something he is adjusting the height of the panhard.

Here is a NASCAR type panhard mount.. It is grooved but on single shear like most Ive seen...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/p160555_image_large-1.jpg

That is slick!!! I'm getting bad Ideas!! :idea: :D

[rlplive]

Looking great man.

[Motorcitydak]

Another dumb question. I see that your frame side mount is also adjustable up and down. I am assuming that it is so you can keep the track bar as level as possible, correct? The only reason I can figure that you would need to do something like this is to move it around if you change the rear ride height. Is there some other reason why you would want to change the height of the mount?

Also, that axle side mount, is it sold thru somewhere? or did you make it yourself?

[LowBuckX]

I made everything . The panhard can be a useful tool in tuning its 4 AM now and I can barely read the screen so I will get back to you lol

[78 Type-LT]

cool build

[Motown 454]

Nice job it looks great.

[LowBuckX]

made me some body mounts to replace the hockey puck Compengineering ones..

Im not making the core support one just yet Im leaving the compengineering one in there. Im just making the firewall and rear mount. Im copying the Comp heights which are .850 rear and 1.5 firewall... Im copying what is there so nothing has to be shimmed or moved. Someone made a spacer at somepoint that is taller than the stock 1/2" so like I said Im copying what is there...

Mine are also of the "No Shear" type. they are like 2 cups and a steel pin that goes throught the frame and locks in the cups. Made em like that more for ease of install than strength but they should be stronger than the 2 pc interlocking ones..

The steel pin is painted in glyptol which is orangish but looks bright red in the pic.. The rest will be painted in glyptol on the faces and enamel on the edges. This is to ward off any galvanic reaction...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Motown 454]

Those won't go anywhere.

[monteboy84]

Any updates? You've done a great job thus far, I'd love to see where it's at.

[DYNODANNY]

This rear setup is very cool and makes me think off the possibilitys for my hot rods rear suspention.

[LowBuckX]

Right now its disassembled to finish weld and grind then clean up and paint the underbody. But latter tonight I will take pics of my Swaybar. Its a 68 charger unit from addco I modified to make it adjustable...

[LowBuckX]

Here is the swaybar update. I used a 68 Charger sway bar because it fit better than the Nova/camaro bar to be honest. The drop goes behind the pumpkin instead of under like the Camaro Addco bar and at $130 was priced right..

I wanted to make it adjustable and I give 72novadriver full credit for what I did to make it adjustable. IE I copied what he already did just changed it to make it work for me.

I made these bar ends (BTW these started as 2" round stock turned milled and drilled)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Cut off stock smashed eyelets drilled the solid 7/8 bar and pressed then welded my ends on
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I didnt like the stamped uchannel mount with the muffler clamp that was supplied so I made some solid Aluminum blocks and used 1/2 u bolts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Then I didnt want heims top and bottom to eliminate any sound transfer to the chassis via solid connections so i made these links.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I didnt get a pic of the frame mounts uninstalled/welded but will get pic of them installed this weekend.

Here is a pic of sorta everything together..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Bryce]

awesome fab work. I am enjoying this build!

[monteboy84]

More great work! Keep it up.

[CRead01]

looking good. just out of curiosity does welding on the sway bar affect the spring rate at all?

[Bjkadron]

looking good. just out of curiosity does welding on the sway bar affect the spring rate at all?

Not really because it is on the arm part not the center part where most of the twisting is. the different lengths affect it much more.

Hope this helps!

Benjamin

[LowBuckX]

Not really because it is on the arm part not the center part where most of the twisting is. the different lengths affect it much more.

Hope this helps!

Benjamin
Plus I TIGed it and the heat affected zone is minimal compared to MIG.

[CRead01]

That's very cool. I deffinately see what my next project is. I never thought about doing that with the sway bar.

[LowBuckX]

Im gonna do my front bar the same in effort to loosen it up a tiny bit but that is after I get the rear done...

[LowBuckX]

finished pics coming soon

[liquidh8]

Love the Build and you work!! I can't wait to see some installed and finished pics!!!

[JMarsa]

Hey LowBuckX where's the UPDATE?

--JMarsa

[LowBuckX]

not magazine quality but here it is. I spent many hours cleaning and painting and this digital cam realy makes it look like crap.


view from rear.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
view from front
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Additional brace for frame connector i added.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
plastic angle finder wasnt cutting it had to reach deep to get this tool for pinion angle setting
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LowBuckX]

Pan hard mount frame side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Best view i could get or third link mount
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Crossmember third link.. Racecar parts have holes...lol
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
upper link house
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
swaybar mounting
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


FIN

[LowBuckX]

That bad??

[Bryce]

I cant see the pics at work. I will have to remember to check this thread out when I get home.

[1BAGTO]

Good job!!

[John Wright]

Just a tip on the camera work.....leave the flash off, and use plenty of ambient lighting....it will make all of your hard work look like it is supposed to...clean.

My point and shoot does the same thing...makes the engine bay look dirty even with a fresh coat of paint on everything...turn the flash off and whalah!...a pic of a clean engine compartment.

[Jasons72]

Looking good, i wish i had the ability to get ends machined like yours so i could steal your charger sway bar idea.

[LowBuckX]

Im gonna have to reshoot with no flsah and some lighting tricks I now remember from Pop Hotrodding.

Jasons72 they took a lot of time but could be made simpler.

[liquidh8]

I think it looks BA! How long is that upper link? I also like how the third link has a bolt on mount. I was thinking of something similar for my wagon, so if it doesn't work out, I can go back to the 4 link.

Nice work, now you have to sling it around a road coarse!!

[Motown 454]

Nice job it looks great.

[LowBuckX]

I think it looks BA! How long is that upper link? I also like how the third link has a bolt on mount. I was thinking of something similar for my wagon, so if it doesn't work out, I can go back to the 4 link.

Nice work, now you have to sling it around a road coarse!!

upper link is 8.75 long. ... Now I need brake lines and exhaust before i try anything

[6spdmalibu]

Looks good!

[fordsbyjay]

Looks good. I will be glad when car is at that stage.

[Bad Bird]

How did I miss this one? This is a great project, very ingenious. So, is this suspension based on the 100% torque cancellation spreadsheet of Bill Shope?

Cheers,
-Matt

[LowBuckX]

How did I miss this one? This is a great project, very ingenious. So, is this suspension based on the 100% torque cancellation spreadsheet of Bill Shope?

Cheers,
-Matt
follows it as best as could be packaged in this chassis

[Bad Bird]

It is my intention to do very similar work to my own car. Your thread has been a fantastic inspiration!

[LowBuckX]

It is my intention to do very similar work to my own car. Your thread has been a fantastic inspiration!
Thanks thats my intent with posting my LowBuck builds.. Show people that it can be done with out adding to the gross National debt.
Also adddaboys are nice.. :cheers:

[CRead01]

well, the addaboy is deserved.

two cool projects in one thread with the sway bar and 3 link setup.

[liquidh8]

The upper link isn't as long as I thought it would have to be. I think I have room for something similar in my g-body wagon. Just have to make a bracket for the 9in.

[John Wright]

well, the addaboy is deserved.

two cool projects in one thread with the sway bar and 3 link setup.
Agreed!:1st:

[Bryce]

Any testing? Is it driveable yet?

[David Sloan]

Very cool ! I love the low buck stuff, had to do it for many years while raising kids.

Iam with Bryce is it drive able yet? You should be able to drive a little find any week links an fix as you go! then again you may not have any.
Very cool build!

[LowBuckX]

I drove it but a timing issue has grounded me.... I hate electronics..

[arue333]

Looking great! any reviews on the ride improvement? Also where did you get the axle clams or did you make them>looks really nice.

[SickSpeedMonte]

Very inspirational indeed! I'd like to 3-link my Monte and I'd love to keep the rear seat too. Hopefully I can pull of something half as nice as what you did.

What are your exhaust plans? It looks like getting the pipes past that rear axle might be easier said than done?

[hessdawg]

bad ass hope mine looks as good

[QuarterD25]

Any updates on this?

[LowBuckX]

Made my own axle clamps.