Pro-touring is dead

[LA Cars]

You guys probably didnt know it, but it is....according to David Frieburger and in the new Hot Rod magazine. "Tasteless Resto" is the new rage?? Blowers, centerlines, leaf springs, metal flake??? Seriously??

[mc84_zz4]

He must have inhaled too much second-hand smoke in the 70's.... JMHO

[killer69]

so what do we change the name of the site to??????????

tasteless-restos.com


forget it

im sticking with protouring

[LateNight72]

You have to remember the audience of Hot Rod. I'm willing to bet most of them are the folks stuck in the 70s and 80's with air shocks, Cragars, and side pipes.


BTW - Didn't Hot Rod (or maybe PHR?) claim Pro-Touring was dead a while ago, too? How'd that prediction work out?

[mc84_zz4]

so what do we change the name of the site to??????????

tasteless-restos.com....


But then you all would have to ADD back the leaf springs, and the sparkle paint. :enguard:

[Damn True]

The rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated.

David has declared this "thing" dead on at least 5 different occasions that I can recall.

You can do one of the following:

a) Get all pi$$ed off and write a foaming rant on this website, or to the rag thus fulfilling the very intent of his comments (to inflame and polarize).

b) You can laugh about the fact that he keeps saying it, but the event registrations keep climbing, the vendors that cater to us are (mostly) doing well and mainly that the advertisements in the back of his rag (and the rest of the Source Interlink rags) seem to indicate otherwise. Where are the advertisers who are rolling fat based on the "tasteless resto" trend?

Hint: They are in the same place as the NASCAR for the street advertisers.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yep protouring is dead... and STREETFIGHTERS are alive and well!

ahhaha

i guess hes Fried-his-burger way too much with that Cali dro..

ill stick with my pro-touring.com addiction thank you... because my HOTROD alternative aint doing a THING for me..

[bsclark]

I'm gonna build a zombie car.

[sunkistcamaro]

If David is right then I better hurry up and buy some air shocks again like I had in the mid 80's....:barf:

[TonyHuntimer]

True,

You hit the nail on the head.

David is going to say it until it does die and then he'll be able to say that he predicted it.
Here...I'll do the same thing and in the future they'll say I really knew what I was talking about. ...what can I say?... DVD's are dead. SUV's will get 60 MPG. Pro-Touring lives on.

:)

Oh, and if you haven't been around for a while...I think David Frieburger said Pro-Touring was dead back in 2003. I guess we didn't get the memo.
David loves to get everyone fired up and talking about what he says. That's his job. He sells magazines by writing crazy stuff.

[PT_79_TA_461]

what pisses me off it the whole RAT-ROD rage...how menny times have i seen a perfectly restorable 20's-30's car get hacked up perposley just to get the RAT-ROD look for a quick buck... SO SO SO SAD

[Mkelcy]

Funny, I was at Buttonwillow this past Friday with Penny, Jackass, CarlC's supercharged '68 Camaro, Mary Pozzi's '73 and a number of other '60's and 70's era pro-touring cars, and they all seemed quite alive and active.

Maybe the issue is that the rags are dying and this is what they're saying in their death throes? If Hot Rod wants to alienate a portion of their potential subscriber base, I guess that's their choice.

For my part, I'll support those magazines that feature my aspect of the hobby, and not support those that don't. Bye, Hot Rod.

[TonyHuntimer]

Funny, I was at Buttonwillow this past Friday with Penny, Jackass, CarlC's supercharged '68 Camaro, Mary Pozzi's '73 and a number of other '60's and 70's era pro-touring cars, and they all seemed quite alive and active.

Maybe the issue is that the rags are dying and this is what they're saying in their death throes? If Hot Rod wants to alienate a portion of their potential subscriber base, I guess that's their choice.

For my part, I'll support those magazines that feature my aspect of the hobby, and not support those that don't. Bye, Hot Rod.

Mike,
Did you see all the metal flake vans at Buttonwillow too? :)

[86Cutlass383SR]

I guess I better hurry up and buy all my needed PT parts as they will soon quit being made :pat: Hey, if it was in HotRod it's gotta be the truth right?

[Nicks67GTO]

whew....man its a good thing i havent sold my 73' Nova yet. With a little unrefining that thing is right up Daves alley. I guess i should untuck the back tires and shackle that bad boy up. Maybe airbrush an Iron Maiden graphic on the hood.:firefire: Complete it with a tape deck and a jean jacket. YEAH!!! Who wants to go kick some ass!!! I think ill put a comp 304 hydraulic in an 8:1 350. Top it it off with a dual tunnel ram, maybe a 4.86's out back and hang some Glasspacks off the headers to boot! Ill have a hotrod cover car:hammer:........Its either that or ill work on my GTO I guess ill have to do some thinking

I like DF for the most part but this "tastless resto" is a bold prediction

[bsclark]

I'm gonna call it "the living dead".

[compos mentis]

Never let 'em see ya sweat applies here.

[formula]

based on my local cruise-in, I'd believe that the tasteless resto cars outnumber the pro-touring cars 50 to one...so, by that metric, maybe he's right.

:bsjerk:

[TonyHuntimer]

based on my local cruise-in, I'd believe that the tasteless resto cars outnumber the pro-touring cars 50 to one...so, by that metric, maybe he's right.

:bsjerk:

The same thing can be said for most cruise spots around the country. The difference is that these old 70's and 80's hot rod tasteless resto cars never changed. They are the same cars from back then. For the most part, the only new cars are our cars. Nobody has the heart to tell all these guys stuck in the 70's and 80's cars, that they have been out of style for decades. So to say tasteless resto is back...is more like...it's tasteless and the bad taste never went away. That doesn't make it a new fad. It just makes it dated. Thanks for yesterday's news David Frieburger. :)

[Yelcamino]

The same thing can be said for most cruise spots around the country. The difference is that these old 70's and 80's hot rod tasteless resto cars never changed. They are the same cars from back then. For the most part, the only new cars are our cars. Nobody has the heart to tell all these guys stuck in the 70's and 80's cars, that they have been out of style for decades. So to say tasteless resto is back...is more like...it's tasteless and the bad taste never went away. That doesn't make it a new fad. It just makes it dated. Thanks for yesterday's news David Frieburger. :)

You have a very valid point. The local cruise that I go to usually has about a 100 cars every Friday. Of those cars, about a 1/4 are imports, about 1/4 restored stock muscle cars, and the last 1/2 are the hot rods from the late '70s and '80s with the 15" Cragers and Centerlines. Then there's my car. Naturally mine sticks out like a sore thumb but it gets attention. :smoke:

[wellis77]

Pardon my naiveness, but what in the world is "tasteless resto", besides an awful name for a style of car? What defines it, or what doesn't?

[redfire69]

Now I remember why I let my subscription to hotless rod run out. The only time I picked it up off the news stand in the last three years was when Razor was on the cover....

[MarkM66]

Him considering it dead, means at one point it must of been "alive."

I wonder when that was?

:smoke:


I've never liked rat rods. Really, I just don't like them at car shows.

To try to compare it, wouldn't that be like taking an old, worn out, half dead donky to a horse show?

:machine:

[wblanton]

We all decide what lives and dies not the media.

[John Wright]

PT dead?...bah!

[mc84_zz4]

The same thing can be said for most cruise spots around the country. The difference is that these old 70's and 80's hot rod tasteless resto cars never changed. They are the same cars from back then. For the most part, the only new cars are our cars. Nobody has the heart to tell all these guys stuck in the 70's and 80's cars, that they have been out of style for decades. So to say tasteless resto is back...is more like...it's tasteless and the bad taste never went away. That doesn't make it a new fad. It just makes it dated. Thanks for yesterday's news David Frieburger. :)

Excellent point.

Another little piece of evidence to the contrary of his statement, just peek at what SEMA has been bringing us year after year, what the trends are, and what product lines are gaining more momentum every year.

Way to be out of touch!, Frieburger.

[derekf]

Hot Rod is dead.

[JEFFTATE]

Pro -Touring is a good name for a multi-purpose street performance car.
20 years from now , "pro-touring" may not be what people call the build style.
But , it will always be around..

Long live Pro-Touring !!!

[Chevrolaine]

what pisses me off it the whole RAT-ROD rage...how menny times have i seen a perfectly restorable 20's-30's car get hacked up perposley just to get the RAT-ROD look for a quick buck... SO SO SO SAD

Huh? Isn't that what PT is all about only with newer (60's=70's) cars?:idea:

[Vegas69]

What a moron.....

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

did you know the traditional hotrod guys HATE it when their cars are called RATRODs?....

...just fyi.

[dadto2jays]

There are several car styles or fads that I dont really care for and definetly the rat-rod is one that I cant even begin to understand. As far as pro-touring any car show or cruise I go to here in south florida I might see maybe one or two real pro-touring vehicle but it is definetly not the most popular style around here. you are bound to find more of a resto mod or original restored vehicle. I for one really like the pro-touring vehicles that alot of you guys have. I dont think is dead by any means.

[cmanf]

I was in my basement going thru some things found a pile of my old HRM's looked at a few and busted out laughing remembering whey I stopped getting them 20 years ago.

On the next trend thing guess im stuck in the middle with my car.
Has the suspension and power just idk if im ever gonna put the time and cash into looks when i can just beat on it and not worry about scratches and road rash. That will change tho once cash isnt in short demand eventually.

[Jarcaines]

Not to get all philosophical about it, but nothing is "dead" anymore.

The post-modern era we live in has started to strip away the ideas of "in" and "out" trends, or what is "cool" or "uncool". It is all relative now. Pro-Street can be just as "cool" as pro-touring or rat rods, or imports, or cars that run on french fry oil, it all depends what you and your crowed enjoy.

Build cars you like, who cares about trends.

And if you can't at least appreciate that other people might like something different then you just as much as we like our pro-touring cars, then you are taking the whole thing way too seriously.

[Ron L]

Sweet, I knew I kept those Gabriel air shocks in the garage for a reason. Time to shop for some sidepipes.

You know what else is in? Old people telling everyone that the "new" stuff is dead and the only way to be approved is to be like the old guys. Oh wait, that happens at every generation gap. Case in point: Frieburger. Grow a gut, ponytail that receding hairline, get a Harley like the rest of them and leave us alone.

[ponchopwr70]

I don't get the dis-like of pro-touring cars. I will never drive a restored muscle car after the way my car drives. We have technology now why not use it, some people are just scared of change and growth. O and I let my hot-rod subscription run out, all my issues are sitting next to car crap. What a waste of room and money.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Case in point: Frieburger. Grow a gut, ponytail that receding hairline, get a Harley like the rest of them and leave us alone.

He already has a gut... i think even may be close to a mullet in his possession also.. not sure about a receding hairline.. he likes to hide it under a pro-touring.com cap.


lol!

[Tony_SS]

I don't get the dis-like of pro-touring cars.

I really don't understand the hating of any cars. rat-rods, low riders, imports, 'tasteless-resto' or whatever. Some of them might be butt ugly or have very limited function, but most of them have at least something that's interesting in their build or style.

[Rhino]

With all this said, I saw a recently built '68 Camaro at the KC goodguys with crazy gold paint and huge flake. I felt a little of a throw back vibe to it. Other than the paint, it was a PT-like build.
I do have to admit, he pulled it off well. It's not my style, but kudos to the builder.

[406 Q-ship]

I say this and I was doing the "pro-touring" thing before it had a name or a following, Frieburg has been trying to kill for awhile now, he likes pro street, drag cars, and 70/80's style cars (have you seen his super bee?). He tried to get FX style straight axle drags cars back into vogue for awhile too and you can see how far that went, I like to see the straight axle cars but would never in a million years build one (I like stopping and turning too much). I remember back when I used to get asked...why would you put 16" Corvette sized wheels on a 1st gen Camaro/Chevelle when everyone knows they are for drag racing, so I have been tolerating morons for a lot of years (Oh God it is more like decades). Why are we worried about the predictions of a man who builds mopars with hose clamped transmission mounts and pro street super bees that fit into 1985?

[dj3]

I now know how to tell people what kind of wheels I have, Tasteless Resto centerline wheels.

[Fesler built]

I think they are saying its dead because the hot rod craze died years ago and they want to bring it back. No way I am going that way I will close my shop down and go wrok for someone if what we do is dead. You just cant go wrong with cars like these. They look better then hot rod, they will out handle a hot rod anyday and they hold thier value better then a hot rod. Seems to me hot rods are dead and there will be a ton of 30s style cars for sale soon for cheap.

[Rhino]

Aesthetic styles will vary over time. Years ago people thought huge fender flares and rectangular headlamps were awesome.
It seems that as a trend ages, it sort of implodes under it's own weight. I don't see that happening with the PT world. Since it is almost understated by definition, in my opinion, it will take much more time to hit that point.

[maroon88iroc]

I didnt read this whole thread at all so no one jump on me if my post is out of whack

I love pro-touring cars but when I build a car I try and do the updated suspension and drivetrain but leave the outside as close to stock as possible. I like the big wheels and brakes and all that but the way I build my cars is I definitely do the big wheels/brakes but I want to be able to put a set of stock wheels on it and it look pretty much stock from the outside.

[Krazed]

You guys probably didnt know it, but it is....according to David Frieburger and in the new Hot Rod magazine. "Tasteless Resto" is the new rage?? Blowers, centerlines, leaf springs, metal flake??? Seriously??

I dont really enjoy the 70's and 80's styles. Afros? Metal flake? No thanks.

Though, if it is really dead and this IS the new "thing" maybe we need to call it...

Fro-touring.com

[DarkBuddha]

Pro-touring is dead
Good riddance, I hate trends. Now we can get back just building cool cars the way we like them 'cause we like them that way. Oh wait, that's how pro-touring got started... nevermind...

[Memphis]

I think they are saying its dead because the hot rod craze died years ago and they want to bring it back. No way I am going that way I will close my shop down and go wrok for someone if what we do is dead. You just cant go wrong with cars like these. They look better then hot rod, they will out handle a hot rod anyday and they hold thier value better then a hot rod. Seems to me hot rods are dead and there will be a ton of 30s style cars for sale soon for cheap.
:screwy: :lmao: suuuure.

[JEFFTATE]

"Multi-purpose performance street cars" I said !!!

[Fesler built]

:screwy: :lmao: suuuure.

if you dont notice the value of hot rods going down then you have not been paying attention. PT style cars have been going up while hot rods are going down fast

[blown9746]

I just have to say I like cars of all types. Even the ones I don't, I can appreciate the work that goes into them. For me a prime example of that is lowriders w/ hydraulics and big metal flake. It isn't my thing, but I can appreciate all the work put in on them.

Honestly anyone fixing up or building cars no matter the type is good for keeping the hobby going for future generations.

[TonyHuntimer]

You guys probably didnt know it, but it is....according to David Frieburger and in the new Hot Rod magazine. "Tasteless Resto" is the new rage?? Blowers, centerlines, leaf springs, metal flake??? Seriously??

On what page and which issue does David say Pro-Touring is dead? Or are you reading between the lines?

[badbu68]

I think so many people throw around the phrase "pro-touring" though. To some it's just throwing a set of 17" or large rims on a muscle car. IMHO it's taking a car to near supercar status with both performance mods and appearence mods without sacraficing comfort.

It's just another form of hot rodding cars to me, so no, I don't think it will ever die, along with all the crazy things that people have been doing to cars and will continue to do as well.

[Memphis]

Hot Rods as far as value seems to be all over the place to me. I don't pay much attention to the value of cars that much to be honest. Just comparing the amount of members of this site and ones on the Hamb there is more activity/interest in Hot Rods than pro touring.

[cluxford]

OMG, I am way ahead of the curve. My Camaro will be finished in about 6 months (3 year build)

632 BBC - not blown yet, but will be soon after registration
Tubbed with 17 x 12 Rushforth's on rear with 390 x 40 series (big sidewall) (17x7 up front)
AME front end
4 Link rear
oops...coilovers all round (no leafs)
Pearl metal flake yellow paint job !!

I'd prefer to call it a tasteful resto. A mix of Pro-street and Pro-touring...best of both worlds

Thanks Hot Rod Magazine

[MattG]

Hmmm, let's see....

We wanted cars with more power and better mileage, we got it.
We wanted cars that handled better, we got that too.
We wanted cars that braked better, well, we all get the point.

I had a 2002 Corvette and wished an old Camaro could do all of the things that it could do and the fortunatley the market listened, apparently thousands of us felt the same way.

We always want to improve upon what we have, what we choose to call it is irrelevant, it just so happens that Pro Touring caught on and is growing stronger and stronger every day.

Pro Street, Pro Touring, Pro life, WHATEVER!!!!

Give me a car that does EVERYTHING well and let me hand out with all that guys that feel the same way.

THAT'S HOTRODDING!!!!

Matt

[BonzoHansen]

One of our goldfish died. Print that too.

[Tony_SS]

WXU3N9wT3u0

[Steve Chryssos]

I saw these:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

in our classified section back in August. Reminded me of a black on black 71-73 Camaro that parked on my block as a punk kid. ....Very simple looking car with a black vinyl top. No spoilers. No hood scoop. I suppose he worked for the carburetor shop down the block. But the guy must've parked the Camaro one-half block away to avoid damage. That car was so tight. The wheels did not stick out like other cars of the day. Or maybe I'm cleaning it up in my mind.

Anyway, the wheel pic above, fired a synapse that laid dormant since 1975. I won't be selling my pro-touring car any time soon. But it would be nice to buy those slotted mags and duplicate that second gen someday.

I can appreciate the nostalgia.

[rogue]

I saw these:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

in our classified section back in August. Reminded me of a black on black 71-73 Camaro that parked on my block as a punk kid. ....Very simple looking car with a black vinyl top. No spoilers. No hood scoop. I suppose he worked for the carburetor shop down the block. But the guy must've parked the Camaro one-half block away to avoid damage. That car was so tight. The wheels did not stick out like other cars of the day. Or maybe I'm cleaning it up in my mind.

Anyway, the wheel pic above, fired a synapse that laid dormant since 1975. I won't be selling my pro-touring car any time soon. But it would be nice to buy those slotted mags and duplicate that second gen someday.

I can appreciate the nostalgia.

Funny you posted those. I saw those same wheels and loved the nostalgic look of em. They'd be awesome on a custom van with a mural.

[Tony_SS]

dont forget the teardrop window.

[Damn True]

I saw these:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif




I had those on my '69 Cougar in 1987-1992.

[TonyHuntimer]

I still have fond memories of my friends 69 Z28 in High school all jacked up with air shocks and N50 15's out back sticking out. It's where the obsession for first gen's was sparked for me.
If had these wheels:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nicks67GTO]

I had those on my '69 Cougar in 1987-1992.


HAHA am i the only one that thinks those would look kinda sorta cool on the right car?. I would put those on a second gen camaro, keep them tucked up nice and lower the car a touch...just a touch.

[406 Q-ship]

HAHA am i the only one that thinks those would look kinda sorta cool on the right car?. I would put those on a second gen camaro, keep them tucked up nice and lower the car a touch...just a touch.

They would look good on a 68-72 Chevelle or GTO too, your right they need to tucked and tight.

[MonzaRacer]

As for pro-touring being dead,B------t, as for hot rodding being dead B------T, as for our chosen form of it its still hot rodding.
ANY car done the way YOU want, against all norms (ie stock) regardless of fads, form or function.
Pro-Touring IS hot rodding.
Regardless of any " I hate this or that" all custom cars to me are "kool".
Do I want a friends 37 Chevy 2dr, yes, would it get better running gear, chassis,brakes, yes, would I paint it in pastel no. I may even flat clear the patina.
rat rods ARE cool and I love it when I see one at a local show, the rougher the better, and the more ingenuity the better.
You can all bash me but my buddy likes putting stiff springs in and getting his car UP rather than down, but you know, they are his cars, he likes them, he also like big blocks, seemingly no traction, and running race gas in everything.
HIS choice.
Old addage I used to relate in the archery forums, "Shoot what you want , let the bow find you that fits."
So here is my new mantra,,,," Drive what you want, let the type of car that fits YOU, find you."
We can bitch about what someone else drives. BUT WHY? IF 406 Q-ship wants a jacked up, leaf sprung, long shackled tunnel rammed slobber all over the road ,metal flaked and muraled car,,,,,,,,,,,,,SO BE IT.
But if he doesnt, wants his car to get 25mpg, turn on a dime and stop on same dime, and all his wheels tucked up nice, SO BE IT.
This is our sport/hobby.
And together we all make it live.
And without all of the forms, Pro-touring, Pro Street, Pro Fair Grounds, Rat Rod, Resto, Retro, and what ever else comes along, heck even a few of the low riders look cool, just not my cup of tea.
Some things are silly in my eyes like Donks and Bubbles, but hey if they think its cool, so be it and if you dont like it, buy it and change it.
Will we laugh at the look, abbbbsssoooolllluuuuttteeelllllyyyyy, but can I respect the time and effort the truly devoted ones who make their cars safe also, yes.
If its a hack job with no safety and sloppy workmanship then its gonna get my critique.
ITS ALL HOT RODDING BY DEFINITION.
Is it yours or mine, no.
But I can respect hard work of any kind.
Heck I never understood building a tall truck and then burying it in the deepest mud hole around.
Now in 4wd I prefer more rock crawler style while being drivable.
EVEN THATS HOT RODDING.
Sign me,
Lee Abel
HOT RODDER FOR LIFE

[Tony_SS]

Rock crawling in Sedona FTW!

[andrewb70]

Pro-touring was never a huge trend. It is a niche build style and will always have a place. I think we all like to believe that it is big, but if you go to any car show you will see that pro-touring cars make up a small part of the overall attendees. I always notice at events, such as RTTH, our cars stick out. There is a marketing study in there somewhere...Now if I can only find the angle....hmmm..

Andrew

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

does anyone make oversized mags like those Steevo posted?

[68Formula]

Pro-touring was never a huge trend. It is a niche build style and will always have a place. I think we all like to believe that it is big, but if you go to any car show you will see that pro-touring cars make up a small part of the overall attendees. I always notice at events, such as RTTH, our cars stick out. There is a marketing study in there somewhere...Now if I can only find the angle....hmmm..

Andrew

Unless you also count the wannabe cars with large-up-to idiot-size wheels on other-wise stock suspension vehicle.

[CRCRFT78]

This poor RS Camaro will have a renewed life thanks to Pro-Touring being DEAD. LMAO!!

[Tiger]

I'm covered anyhow if he is right.
I have a short Chevy van and I never manage to sell the teddybear seats or the sidepipes for it...... what a moron!!

[andrewb70]

Unless you also count the wannabe cars with large-up-to idiot-size wheels on other-wise stock suspension vehicle.

I think that every trend gets copied to some extent. I really don't think that the idiot size wheels on other-wise stock car was something that was picked up from pro-touring. I lump those guys in with the street rod crowd. I believe Steevo came up with the term mod rod, which seems very appropriate.

Andrew

[TonyHuntimer]

does anyone make oversized mags like those Steevo posted?

You can buy Slotted mags in sizes up to 17x8.
http://www.newstalgiawheel.com/wheel_detail.asp?subcat3=1101101

[Samckitt]

I'm gonna stick with the pro-touring theme. And David Frieburger can go pound sand.

[cypher]

and thats the main reason i quit reading hotrod magazine like 10 years ago. All the cars from it were driven in a straight line. If i wanted to do that i would just drive to work every day.. oh wait, i do that now. I think ill stay with something a little more fun driving.

[Derek69SS]

In the history of hot-rodding PERFORMANCE has never gone out of style. Nobody has ever gotten in their hot-rod and thought "I wish this thing would handle a lot worse" or "I wish these brakes would fade and stop working" People have however, sacrificed the braking and handling to gain performance in another area (such as straight line accelleration). With today's technology, that's no longer necessary. There are many PT cars that are knocking down 11.50s no problem. Sure, they could sacrifice all their driveability for a few tenths, but then they require a cage... that may impress some people, but it wouldn't impress my wife when I tell her we can't put our kids in the back seat anymore, or drive the car on our vacations 750 miles from home (and race it while there) anymore.

My brother is into bigblock/4spd & 15" wheels... I have updated everything on my car. He put 500 miles on his car this summer, I put 5,000 on mine. My car is faster than his too. :1st:

[mjdwyer23]

Freiburger is just unhappy because his online magazine tanked. Then he tried to slip his other mag (something about rock crawling) into hot rod and make everyone hot for that.

[JWilson]

You can buy Slotted mags in sizes up to 17x8.
http://www.newstalgiawheel.com/wheel_detail.asp?subcat3=1101101
I actually have the 17" slots on my '79, they just look "right" on those cars to me. Plus they were inexpensive, and completely changed the look of the car from the 14" Cragars that were on it.

I agree that Pro-Touring is probably more of a niche than most here would like to admit. That being said, how anyone, magazine editor of not, could look down upon a genre of car that does everything well, I don't understand.

[muthstryker]

I personally think the term pro-touring gets thrown around to loosely. I laugh everytime I see a car with aftermarket wheels and drum brakes and stock suspension and claims its pro-touring..

[68Formula]

I actually have the 17" slots on my '79, they just look "right" on those cars to me.

Pics?

[Bill Howell]

Screw this thread, real protouring is alive and well.
Congratulations John Parsons, $175K is a good number to me!

[mpozzi]

Screw this thread, real protouring is alive and well.
Congratulations John Parsons, $175K is a good number to me!

Couldn't agree more and just posted close to the same in another thread ... WOW and so cool for John.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[David Sloan]

Hellllllll ya! dead my a$$$$$$$$$$$$!
LOL!!

[Nine Ball]

Pro-Touring died a few years ago when guys started building turn-table showcars with $30K paint jobs and quit "touring" in them. LOL! Lets get back to driving cars, no matter how nice they might be. At least live up to the genre name!

As for DF, I don't think you will find many who really care what he says. Just his opinion, everyone has their own. I won't be building any retro $hitbox tacky 70s-80s cars in my lifetime.

[Steven]

I's simple, If you want to just go straight like Freiburger does, the pro-touring style is not for you. It's just big engines with fat tires out back with skinny ones out front. If you want you car to handle,(auto cross and road course), pro-touring is for you. There's no doubt that a strip prep car will not perform on an auto cross circut. I agree with others. Freibuger makes these statements just to piss off people and fellow editors just to see his name posted all over.

[trapin]

Friedburger represents the last of a lineage in this hobby that died long ago. His arrogance is all he and his minions really have left. We are pulling away and they are being left behind, still clinging to their tunnel ram intakes and wheelie bars. By claiming “Pro-Touring Is Dead” he is hoping that his position as editor of what is the most recognizable hot rodding publication in the world will help sway public opinion and interest of a genre that he (and a few others) mistakenly wrote off many years ago. It’s the final swing and a miss in his quest to regain the respectability he (and Hot Rod) once had.

Friedburger’s time is at an end, and I suspect he knows it. Why not go down swinging?

Cheers Dave. And best of luck to you.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

look .... REALLY.. would you let this guy tell you whats hot or not?

for real?...

flip flops?...

FOR REAL???

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

...




https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[TonyHuntimer]

look .... REALLY.. would you let this guy tell you whats hot or not?

for real?...

flip flops?...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


David in thongs! I hope he swept the floor first before taking that priceless photo. I know how dirty auto parts store floors are. EWW! :)

When I was growing up, those were not flip flops...they were thongs.
Nowadays this is a thong... :)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

thongs or flip flops, either way i would rather take EVSmotors big head ass' advice than that slumvillage thonglington refugee.. and neither of them do i respect in any way.. ahhahaha

[The Rook]

Him considering it dead, means at one point it must of been "alive."

I wonder when that was?

:smoke:


I've never liked rat rods. Really, I just don't like them at car shows.

To try to compare it, wouldn't that be like taking an old, worn out, half dead donky to a horse show?

:machine:


Three pages later and I am still laughing my arse off thinking about a half dead donky at a horse show....too funny!

[The Rook]

If Hot Rod said it, it must be true....so would all of the site sponsors please start threads in the for sale section with their 90% super clearance sale prices, I'll be the guy next year still driving my out dated 69 "pro-touring" Camaro that everyone points and laughs at! Someone has to be that guy!

[minendrews68]

whew....man its a good thing i havent sold my 73' Nova yet. With a little unrefining that thing is right up Daves alley. I guess i should untuck the back tires and shackle that bad boy up. Maybe airbrush an Iron Maiden graphic on the hood.:firefire: Complete it with a tape deck and a jean jacket. YEAH!!! Who wants to go kick some ass!!! I think ill put a comp 304 hydraulic in an 8:1 350. Top it it off with a dual tunnel ram, maybe a 4.86's out back and hang some Glasspacks off the headers to boot! Ill have a hotrod cover car:hammer:........Its either that or ill work on my GTO I guess ill have to do some thinking

I like DF for the most part but this "tastless resto" is a bold prediction

Your close but you've got some of the words wrong, like:
not comp 304 hydraulic....simply, "I gotta 3/4 cam", I know some of you guys remember.
yes, air shocks, so you can raise the rearend high enough you could drive a rice burner up under the rearend and with the rear end that high you most certainly have the most controllable car on the block, and don't worry about HID headlights because you now have headlights that point straight to the asphalt about 12" in front of the front bumper!
Of course a tunnel ram, but make sure you put two 780 double pumpers on so you can wash the cylinder walls down with all that gas, (not to mention all the raw gas going out those new "cherry bomb" glass packs!) , yes, hanging just off the collectors of those new headers.
How do I know? as ashamed as I am to say it, I've been there back in the early '70s....
Carl

[minendrews68]

David in thongs! I hope he swept the floor first before taking that priceless photo. I know how dirty auto parts store floors are. EWW! :)

When I was growing up, those were not flip flops...they were thongs.
Nowadays this is a thong... :)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Dang Tony,

You just ain't right, I think my eyes are permanently damaged now!

[terryr]

Pro-touring is dead. Some guy said so. Take out your LSXs, mini-tubs, and big brakes.



When I was growing up, those were not flip flops...they were thongs.
Nowadays this is a thong... :)
]

A few years ago I was staying in an apartment for a few months and made friends with several people. I saw one woman walking down the hall in flip-flops, and said "I see you wear thongs all the time." She looked shocked and said "how do you know that?"
I answered "they're there on your feet." She said "ohhh THOSE kind of thongs!!!" and turned beet red.

[BonzoHansen]

Long live PT, be it dead or alive. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHZ7nvBSLY)

[MonzaRacer]

Again I say it, shout ,yell and scream about what DF says or letg him run his stuff and you run yours. Certain magazines run racing, tubbed cars, more straightline oriented stuff. Others run tuner stuff, others run pro-touring stuff, others run rat rod and old cars done like "they used to" .
Heck just bought Rebel Rods and Hot Rod Deluxe as I really want to build an old rat rod for fun.
Never have all the cash to do what I want on everything but honestly you all are just beating a bandwagon and its all for nothing.
We now its not dead, just like I know where atleast a dozen Pro-Street cars are going together.
Now the Camaros are getting DSE front ends, but are keeping the traditional 4 link stuff in back BUT running some of the bigger 19 or 20 tires kind of like the Corvette runs or even bigger.
Now you guys can bad moth that but these cars are getting some up dates, some things left alone.
Too bad you all gotta step up and run around should like stupid 5 year olds , rather than let the man dig his own hole if the industry and hobby doesnt take to his ideas, then he will fade away.
Honestly I have seen more childish talk in this thread from friends I would have honestly thought would appreciate some of the work he has done.
While there are some of us running big blocks, or gen1/gen2 non LSx engines due to money, availability,and the fact we just dont have the parts yet.
I have years of collected parts, and hope to be able to use them, will I use/build and LSx in my cars, maybe if I get a deal someday, but till then I am gonna run my little bitty 283, twin turbo it sooner or later, put the little big block in the Caprice and build something hopefully that you all can appreciate, rather than bash.
A little hot rod, little Pro-Touring, little run what'cha brung.
Long live hot rods of any flavor.

[71firebird400]

I dunno...85K at BJ for Empty Nest ain't making it look popular!!

[BonzoHansen]

I dunno...85K at BJ for Empty Nest ain't making it look popular!!

Really (or is this sarcasm)? I can;t imagine almost any 69 Firebird going for that, excluding real TAs.

[71firebird400]

This is one of the flagship cars of this forum! 85K for a car that they said had 3000 hours into it? Yikes!!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

flagship?... no, cannot co-sign that.. but it IS a nice car..

If you said penny or motiv8tr or 1lap camaro or Rons mustang.. yea.

make it a Camaro and youd be singing a different rap lyric.. but hell you ARE a pontiac guy so you should know that all too well.

pretty good for 6 posts too... ahhahah nerd burglar..

[rob07002]

PT DEAD????!!!!! Why the F didn't anyone tell me before I sunk sooo much $$$ into my car! Dammit! Guess I need to call my painter and get some pastel blue, and pink mixed up stat. While I'm at it, I should probably replace those 6 pot Wilwoods for some drums and get some Cragers and shag.

C'mon Dave, wake up dude, why such envy?

Even my hardcore dragrace buddies now get it after driving and/or riding in my car. They were not convinced throughout the build, but are now believers.

Who in their right mind wouldn't want a car that handles, brakes, accellerates, and rides better the original?

[406 Q-ship]

We can bitch about what someone else drives. BUT WHY? IF 406 Q-ship wants a jacked up, leaf sprung, long shackled tunnel rammed slobber all over the road ,metal flaked and muraled car,,,,,,,,,,,,,SO BE IT.
But if he doesnt, wants his car to get 25mpg, turn on a dime and stop on same dime, and all his wheels tucked up nice, SO BE IT.
This is our sport/hobby.
And together we all make it live.


Lee if your using me as an example you have definally reached the bottom of the barrel........:lmao:


Your close but you've got some of the words wrong, like:

not comp 304 hydraulic....simply, "I gotta 3/4 cam", I know some of you guys remember.

yes, air shocks, so you can raise the rearend high enough you could drive a rice burner up under the rearend and with the rear end that high you most certainly have the most controllable car on the block, and don't worry about HID headlights because you now have headlights that point straight to the asphalt about 12" in front of the front bumper!

Of course a tunnel ram, but make sure you put two 780 double pumpers on so you can wash the cylinder walls down with all that gas, (not to mention all the raw gas going out those new "cherry bomb" glass packs!) , yes, hanging just off the collectors of those new headers.

How do I know? as ashamed as I am to say it, I've been there back in the early '70s....

Carl



Please, please......660 center squirters

[audioman]

Screw this thread, real protouring is alive and well.
Congratulations John Parsons, $175K is a good number to me!

I was about to say the same.....

[6'9"Witha69]

flagship?... no, cannot co-sign that.. but it IS a nice car..

If you said penny or motiv8tr or 1lap camaro or Rons mustang.. yea.

make it a Camaro and youd be singing a different rap lyric.. but hell you ARE a pontiac guy so you should know that all too well.

pretty good for 6 posts too... ahhahah nerd burglar..
Shut him down! :lmao:

[6'9"Witha69]

look .... REALLY.. would you let this guy tell you whats hot or not?

for real?...

flip flops?...

FOR REAL???

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Dude wears flip flops crawling through the pick a part. Welding? Flip flops.

[mjdwyer23]

all fun and games until you chop all of your toes off.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Shut him down! :lmao:


Nick sets the play.. Amir drives up the middle annnnnddd.d.....





SCORE!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/endofthread-1.gif

[nekkidhillbilly]

donk is where its at break out the 30s and raise that box

[MonzaRacer]

Lee if your using me as an example you have definally reached the bottom of the barrel........:lmao:





Please, please......660 center squirters


OOOOOOHHHHH boy Im jealous I loved 660s, lost a chance to buy a matched part long time ago.
BUT I do think a tunnel ram with dual throttle bodies would be cool, I honestly had a chance to buy a 60s Comet/Falcon with a straight axle but it wasnt super high, and it really handled well for a straight axle.
I would have yanked the Cleveland, put in a 347, maybe a turbo, better wheels and tires and maybe some air ride and drove it.
But it went and now I have other ideas.
As for using you, sorry but hey I was trying to make a point, IF Dave wants to bash PT let him, lets all be the better sportsman and let it lay.
If someone does something stupid, wait, when they see you ride, drive, turn and stop like a new car, get great mileage and run like stink,,, then others will follow,,,,IF THEY WANT TO.
We have a sport/hobby that can and will continue and grow for some.
But the lady I work with has a Gbody Monte, it has carbe sort of through the hood, big and littles and will barely do a pegleg burnout.
If she brings it in and lets me tune it, she would have a real nice running car.
I hope either the Monza or the Caprice shows what can be done.
Lets lead by example rather than "bashing" like the other guy.

[79-TA]

On what page and which issue does David say Pro-Touring is dead? Or are you reading between the lines?

Yea, source anyone?

And Freiburger did run his sleeper Chevelle at the Goodguys Street Challenge Autocross (editors' challenge) in Costa Mesa this year. I don't think it's fair to say he has any ill will towards muscle cars that handle.

[PT Sportwagon]

As far as I am concerned frieburger is an idiot asshat. that thinks what he know everything about cars and the automotive hobby.

who cares what he says and thinks.

BTW: isn't he a member on here???
Tim

[68Formula]

I just saw in the latest Hot Rod, where he took the Crusher Camaro and purposely fuglied it up.

[ROEINONDUBS]

T/R is crap reminds me of the belair they built on tlc, the candy metal flak one with leafs up front ant purple graphics.

LAMBS!!!!!!!:lurk:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I just saw in the latest Hot Rod, where he took the Crusher Camaro and purposely fuglied it up.

and thats why.. someone revoke the rights to the Crushers keys..

[moparnate]

in my opinion hot rod and car craft, especially car craft is lost and looking for a identity. The leaders of those magazines are stuck in the past and the readers of those magazines are always looking towards the future. Retro is cool but it cannot sustain a magazine when hot rodders are always looking for new ways to make thier cars better, faster, etc. I currently subscribe to car craft and I will cancel my subscription if I see another article done on doug glads stupid rambler. They have done that to death and every other month its on the cover. I open my magazine looking for the next biggest thing being done in the hot rodding hobby, not the last 30 years of tunnel rams and speed boat glitter paint jobs. Handling and braking are a huge part of hot rodding and Dave F has to get with the times. The only magazine I have found that is reporting the current hot rod trends as they come is Popular Hot Rodding and the Good Guys monthly magazine. Its pretty bad when a car clubs monthly news letter is better than a primedia magazine. And dont even get me started about their crappy coverage of the car craft street machine nats. 5000 cars show up and all they show is couple of lousy pages and a full page of junk doing bunouts. What about that autocross? It was awesome but they act as if it didnt even happen. That is at least worth a little attention...The latest magazine just doesnt do that show justice. If your gonna put on one of the countys greatest car shows, at least cover the d#$ show in your magazine so the others who didnt go can see it. OK NOW IM DONE thanks for letting me vent. nate:machine::machine:

[Nicks67GTO]

in my opinion hot rod and car craft, especially car craft is lost and looking for a identity. The leaders of those magazines are stuck in the past and the readers of those magazines are always looking towards the future. Retro is cool but it cannot sustain a magazine when hot rodders are always looking for new ways to make thier cars better, faster, etc. I currently subscribe to car craft and I will cancel my subscription if I see another article done on doug glads stupid rambler. They have done that to death and every other month its on the cover. I open my magazine looking for the next biggest thing being done in the hot rodding hobby, not the last 30 years of tunnel rams and speed boat glitter paint jobs. Handling and braking are a huge part of hot rodding and Dave F has to get with the times. The only magazine I have found that is reporting the current hot rod trends as they come is Popular Hot Rodding and the Good Guys monthly magazine. Its pretty bad when a car clubs monthly news letter is better than a primedia magazine. And dont even get me started about their crappy coverage of the car craft street machine nats. 5000 cars show up and all they show is couple of lousy pages and a full page of junk doing bunouts. What about that autocross? It was awesome but they act as if it didnt even happen. That is at least worth a little attention...The latest magazine just doesnt do that show justice. If your gonna put on one of the countys greatest car shows, at least cover the d#$ show in your magazine so the others who didnt go can see it. OK NOW IM DONE thanks for letting me vent. nate:machine::machine:

You guys give Car Craft too hard of a time. Its obviously more geared tward the low end buildups. Pro Touring is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. That little Rambler is pretty cool IMO. I do agree about the coverage of the CC Summer Nats though. It does suck.

[Boatmark]

Whew, came into the discussion late, but after reading six pages of posts let me see if I can paraphrase the consensus here . . . Pro-touring is the be all end all of Hot Rodding, and everything else sucks. Anyone who likes or builds anything else is a moron, and Frieburger should be shot for intimatiing that their are possibly other ways to build a cool car. I'm not sure, but I think that accurately covers 90% of the posts.

I guess I'm stupid, because I thought this whole hobby was about having fun with cars. Build what you want, the way you want. All I see here is a bunch of guys trashing any kind of car that is not what they like. Sorry, but that is just B.S. in my book. Is pro-touring dead? Of course not. But neither are street rods, imports, trucks, pro-street, or any of the other stuff. They are not going away or becoming worthless, just because pro-touring came along.

Call it a character flaw, but I think that if the only thing on the street or in the magazines were Pro-Touring Camaro's, it would be kind of boring. But then again I was in high school in 1980, and the car's in F-burgers article look a lot like the school parking lot. That must make me one of the stuck in the seventies losers you were all talking about.

Better yet, maybe I have some type of multiple personality disorder . . . pro-touring Corvette project, lowered Avalanche driver, lifted seventies pick-up project, and a history that includes a custom van, a beetle, some mainstream american muscle, and one restored british classic. A little of everything, but I lived through it.

Has anyone noticed that one voice we have not heard on this subject is Steve Rupp? Maybe because he knows that that Frieburger is just doing his job coming up with different content and selling magazines . . . and that the rest of this is all about nothing.

[parsonsj]

the rest of this is all about nothingSo why post?

And just a reminder: this is Pro-Touring.com. Of course we will get riled up when a major player at the place formerly known as Primedia says our slice of the hobby is dead. And it isn't the first time Freiburger has done it either.

So let the boys speak their minds a bit. No need to hush 'em up.

jp

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

my post is all about nothing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/cookie-1.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

.........this is all about nothing.

I guess you missed post #8

[Boatmark]

Not trying to hush anyone up, just thinking about another perspective. I think my point may have been passed over. Everyone gets up in arms that they think David said something bad about pro-touring . . . then proceed to bash every other style vehicle on two wheels. Isn't there just a touch of irony here?

[406 Q-ship]

OOOOOOHHHHH boy Im jealous I loved 660s, lost a chance to buy a matched part long time ago.
BUT I do think a tunnel ram with dual throttle bodies would be cool, I honestly had a chance to buy a 60s Comet/Falcon with a straight axle but it wasnt super high, and it really handled well for a straight axle.
I would have yanked the Cleveland, put in a 347, maybe a turbo, better wheels and tires and maybe some air ride and drove it.
But it went and now I have other ideas.
As for using you, sorry but hey I was trying to make a point, IF Dave wants to bash PT let him, lets all be the better sportsman and let it lay.
If someone does something stupid, wait, when they see you ride, drive, turn and stop like a new car, get great mileage and run like stink,,, then others will follow,,,,IF THEY WANT TO.
We have a sport/hobby that can and will continue and grow for some.
But the lady I work with has a Gbody Monte, it has carbe sort of through the hood, big and littles and will barely do a pegleg burnout.
If she brings it in and lets me tune it, she would have a real nice running car.
I hope either the Monza or the Caprice shows what can be done.
Lets lead by example rather than "bashing" like the other guy.

No worries I was just bustin your chops.....:cheers:

[parsonsj]

Isn't there just a touch of irony here?It's a valid point. But the scale is off. DF writes in a magazine with a large circulation that actively works to influence car enthusiast trends. We're just regular guys whining on a message board.

jp

[syborg tt]

You forgot the Milk




https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/cookie-1.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[NOT A TA]

Couple observations

Did anyone notice the person who started this thread has 1 post? The one that began the thread.

I was in a machine shop today. 3 guys were talking about the cars they're doing now, a 70 Chevelle, 71 Nova and a 66 Mustang. These guys were all young guys probably born in the 80's and work in shops. One worked in a tranny shop, one in general repairs and one in Spanish River Auto and Muscle Cars which according to the business card he gave me is "A REAL OLD SCHOOL HOTROD SHOP"

They were all excited about the "old school" parts they scored on ebay. They wanted to know if I had old parts from the 70's left. They had no desire to build modern PT / G machine type cars. They wanted to build cars like the ones I had in high school! I immediately thought of this thread I'd seen a couple days ago. I might sell one of them a C6 for small block Ford to go in the Mustang.

The owner of the machine shop we were at? Well, his 69 Camaro is being "backhalved" this week.

I'll bet those 3 guys projects are out on the streets before PT projects started at the same time are so whats going to be seen? The "old school" cars, so it will appear they're more popular

I've only talked to David at races I'm in that he's covering and the topic of whether PT is dead has never come up. He seems like a car guy like us who has one of the dream jobs we all wish we had. He took pictures of my car and used them in the mag. Maybe a whole bunch of PT cars should show up at the next race sponsored by HOT ROD?

In my opinion HOT ROD has always been a bit more race oriented than other mags so it makes sense that they'll cover what they see at the tracks. I've been to quite a few events at drag strips, road race tracks and land speed racing events. My car is usually the only G-machine type car and there are no PT cars running.

I raced this past weekend (land Speed Race) at Dade-Collier airport out in the Everglades and to my great surprise a very nice 69 Camaro PT car showed up! But it was just there as a spectator. Usually there isn't anyone representing this segment of the hobby at all, never mind signing up and actually racing.

GM High-Tech Performance magazine was at the LSR covering the event and doing a photo shoot for the 2010 Camaro project car they're doing. If there was a nice PT car running in the race using an LS engine I'd bet it would have made it into the mag.

I don't go to cruise nights very often but I rarely see a PT car. Yet there's always many other build types represented. So again thats what gets seen.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

You forgot the Milk



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/milk_glass300-1.jpg

[Larry Callahan]

Pro-Touring is dead and I get this a few days ago. LOL!



Larry,

I just wanted to send you a quick note to tell you how impressed I am with Pro-touring.com. You've got a terrific organization here. I had seen a little video from the autocross "leaked" on Youtube already and had shared that with members of The MuscleCar Place (my business) Facebook page. People really liked it.

Would you be at all interested in doing a telephone interview in the future? I host a weekly podcast radio show for The MuscleCar Place (which is actually a classifieds listing service for American muscle cars, but we have a popular podcast as well). We feature someone from industry each week that is doing something neat and big - and nothing is hotter in the muscle car world than pro-touring right now!

Looking forward to hearing from you!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yup...

[69496]

Personally I don't care for the 70's theme in this issue of Hot Rod either. But they are doing an article on the 33 ford kit from factory five. I don't think you can get much more pro-touring than that. Ok it doesn't have climate control. But it is old skin over modern brakes, suspension and drivetrain.

[Jim Nilsen]

I just saw in the latest Hot Rod, where he took the Crusher Camaro and purposely fuglied it up.

That's perfect for me. the Crusher was so much like my car from a distance other than wheels that I was worried someone would compare the 2. If he is messing it up and making it suck , then the Cormaro will stand out a lot more in the future on it's own.

I really liked the Crusher and have the diecast of it.

[parsonsj]

But they are doing an article on the 33 ford kit from factory five. I don't think you can get much more pro-touring than that. I have a problem with that kit (and the GTM kit, for that matter):

No sway bars. And no easy way to add them. I don't know how one can get real serious with handling without the ability to tune the suspension with sway bars.

jp

[Jim Nilsen]

As far as I am concerned frieburger is an idiot asshat. that thinks what he know everything about cars and the automotive hobby.

who cares what he says and thinks.

BTW: isn't he a member on here???
Tim

MEMBER can describe a bunch of things and if the post he has made in the past make him a MEMBER as much as it made him an editor and salesman along with being an Antgonist to get print, then I would guess he is a Member here. Just be careful of what you do with MEMBERS like that so it is not incriminating in a bad way.

Until this site has no new members and the old ones die, the only thing dead about protouring will be the outlook of one MEMBER. Then maybe he will go play with his MEMBER because he won't have anything to write about !

Sorry Dave, If cancer had killed me my car would have not gotten finished my way but I doubt if the protouring part of it would have died with me.

[Scott Parkhurst]

The way I see it, if this new 'trend' catches on (and I'm not holding my breath), I'm a pair of sidepipes and a quartet of slot mags away from being cutting edge.


I've got the sidepipes in the garage- new in the box. It was something I was considering a few years back, but decided against because I didn't want to give any of my passengers the 'calf brands' I'd experienced myself over the years with sidepipe-equipped rides. I kinda like the look though- they make cars look longer and lower, and they sound pretty cool too. They were common on road race Vettes and Cobras back in the day, so if you're shooting for a vintage look, they're not completely out of place.

There were some good looking slot wheels back then too. Some looked like cheap junk, but some looked pretty good. Too bad they were all 15s though.

I like vintage style. My car looks 'kinda' '60s style now, and I might be willing to change it over the years. Not now though. I like it how it is...

...for now.

[JohnUlaszek]

Basically, if you put an "IS" in the front or back of the phrase "Pro-Touring" and follow it with any other words you create an incredible disturbance in the fabric of the universe.

You would think DF built a UFO shaped helium balloon and called the media to tell them Pro-Touring accidentally got trapped inside it before it floated away.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Basically, if you put an "IS" in the front or back of the phrase "Pro-Touring" and follow it with any other words you create an incredible disturbance in the fabric of the universe.

You would think DF built a UFO shaped helium balloon and called the media to tell them Pro-Touring accidentally got trapped inside it before it floated away.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Jim Nilsen]

I am wonderering what would happen if we challenged Dave to build a PT car and put it in HotRod on the basis that we don't believe he can ? Afterall , you have to be able to concieve the thought of how to build one. Do you think he could do it? I wonder if he could and if he did, what would it be like? Maybe the budget at HotRod can't afford a PT build because of the time and money it takes?

I have nothing but questions for the man about his ability and desire and not about whether or not PT is dead. You know he likes cars and how could he not really want to build one unless of coarse he just can't wrap his mind around it anymore than the typical HotRod reader.

So who is going to put the challenge to him?

[JohnUlaszek]

When you start spending 50k to 100k or more on a build you run the risk of "jumping the shark".
Given PT has been the next big thing for several years now, a backlash should come as no surprise.

What makes a car like IIMuch kick ass can also be too much for the average guy who just wants to get out and enjoy his muscle car. Sure fuel injection is great, but carbs are cheap, easy to tune, and changing jets is a much different experience than uploading a tune via a laptop.

Nobody is saying we can't or won't keep enjoying ourselves; trends come and go and at some point we just might get to watch the next big thing from the sidelines.

[syborg tt]

So how would one classify the F-Bomb. It was without a doubt one of those cars people will alway's talk about.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

its a four letter word, frowned upon ones upbringing for its usage, normally bleeped out during normal tv programs... except HBO.
most notably used for when a mistake is eminent... or even failure.

such as:

"oh no the breaks are out!".... oh ****!!!!

[Steve Chryssos]

Is this a bad time to post a Root Canal video link?

77Q6C95CkUo

[syborg tt]

nope - good for me.


Is this a bad time to post a Root Canal video link?

77Q6C95CkUo

[Bill Howell]

Is this a bad time to post a Root Canal video link?

77Q6C95CkUo


OMG, best post in this whole dead thread. I am with you Steve, and while you are at it, stick a hot poker in my eye....

[BonzoHansen]

OMG, best post in this whole dead thread. I am with you Steve, and while you are at it, stick a hot poker in my eye....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Best I could do.

BTW, for the record, "stick a hot poker in my eye" with google image search safe off returns a lot of images I'd rather not see.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

awww gnarly

[Steve Chryssos]

Okay, Bill. I found a hot poker video, but it's extremely disturbing and offensive.

Do NOT click on the video link below!

GNbHKkOkfRs

[6'9"Witha69]

That was disturbing. I am now dumberer for watching that!

[79PonchoUK]

looking at the path your countrys car industry has been taking for the past 3-4 decades, particularly the past two, i would say pro-touring is only just getting going.

[spidergearsman]

I dig the pro touring concept


I just don't like blingy wheels - mouth off to our pro freiberger sites @www.bangshift.com or rodderscorner/imforme.com

[barraza]

You guys probably didnt know it, but it is....according to David Frieburger and in the new Hot Rod magazine. "Tasteless Resto" is the new rage?? Blowers, centerlines, leaf springs, metal flake??? Seriously??


Sorry guys, you all got punked. Frieburger never said anything about protouring being dead in this months Hot Rod. The original poster was just being a troll.

Don't you think it is a little bit suspicious that this thread was his one and only post here at PT.com? He keeps looking to check out the reaction, (he was here this AM) but no more posts.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

it doesnt matter if its even frieburger who made this post or hes trolling..

dude still looks like this..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

you lose no matter WHAT you do..

even if you got a banging ass car.. then you step outta it like this... you fachin lose.



















https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

and Moses says he wants his kicks back, Frieburger... he wants his kicks back.

[BonzoHansen]

All I know is they destroyed project crusher camaro. Yea, let's take off the big brakes! :rolleyes:

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yea i saw that too.. at that point i decided not to subscribe ever again to Hotrod.. until they redeem themselves with more pt cars.

[The Rook]

Moses wants his kicks back....that's funny. I threw up a little bit when I saw what they did to the Crusher Camaro....disgusting!

[mjdwyer23]

It was like he read this thread and decided to do something to piss everyone off. The mag felt a little lighter this month, too.

[Josh69]

Doesn't this just show that nobody at Hot Rod has any original ideas?

I'm not a pioneer in the PT world by any stretch, but I dreamt of a muscle car that handled since 6th grade. So I'll continue to do what makes me happy. It's my perogative.

I guess we've all heard the saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity. I'm sure the controversy will sell copy...and that's all that matters to HR.

[Memphis]

How many of you have actually read this months issue? For a mag that is supposedly so against the pro touring movement its funny how it featured the Keisler Cuda and their Factory Five '33 project this month. In 20-30 years the tasteless retro thing will be throwing on ugly 19" wheels and $700 hood hinges..

[Ron L]

In 20-30 years the tasteless retro thing will be throwing on ugly 19" wheels and $700 hood hinges..I thought billet hood hinges went out in the 90s with pink '32 Fords and chrome plated coil springs. Oh yeah that was before everyone had a pirated copy of Solidworks and a CNC shop down the street. Someone really needs that windshield washer bottle bracket that's whittled out of a 50lb chunk of aluminum.

[venturabeachpup]

Great thread! Had fun reading it. The milk and cookies were great. Thanks Mr.V.

I've got a few years left on my build. Man, I hope PT doesn't die before I finish. :pat: (LOL)

[mjdwyer23]

Freiburger actually chimed in on TC: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295148

[Rhino]

Freiburger actually chimed in on TC: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295148


Overall, people over 35 or 40 are going ape for the car.

That is the most laughable comment I've heard in a long time. I can understand some people liking it, but I haven't yet seen anyone "going ape." The responses he's getting are likely the sheeple that blindly follow a mag because of their influence.

As a serious question: anybody in the know have info about our demographic? Is it generally a younger audience? The general feel I get is that the majority of us are 30 - 40.

[Shiro666]

West Coast Jesus Mandalls.

Freiburger is wack.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

then SURELY hes seen what we have been talking about on here..

cmon Frenchfry... you gonna tell us that what would Jesus do when buying his shoes at the mall?

cause you definitely know the answer to that one..

[6'9"Witha69]

Amir, you crack me up!!!

[barraza]

Freiburger actually chimed in on TC: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295148

Five pages of piling on about something that was never said in the article. In the above response on the chevelle board frieburger says some thing that also apply here:


Hey, dudes. Sorry some of you didn't like the thing, but that's ok. A few seem to think that if it's in the magazine, we're telling you what you SHOULD like. Not really. We're just noting a trend and acting on it. .....................................It's advisable to actually read the stuff prior to bashing.Wow, doesn't this kind of thing make us look smart!

[Rhino]

Five pages of piling on about something that was never said in the article.

While you are correct, the article doesn't exist in a vacuum. His opinion of the build style is widely known through previous comments. It's not as much as what is in print as is what's "between the lines"

[Taman]

If Pro-touring is dead, then why all the new suspension components for going around corners fast? I have always liked the drag race look but, try going around a corner with those skinny fronts. My TA is getting a G-suspension. I want to be able to go low 11's and pull 1 G around the corners. Try doing that with a drag setup! As far as Frieburger. He says anything to sell magazines. He reminds me of the kid in High Scool that got his butt kicked every day in School and now has something everybody wants. A spot in Hot Rod. When I won the Pontiac engine from Hot Rod's Win Your dream Engine Sweepstakes, Dave was a real jerk to me. I even spent the money to fly from Chicago to LA for the dyno session and magazine shoot. I guess unless you have a big dollar car, he wants nothing to do with you.

[Ron L]

Labeling your car to fit into a certain group will most certainly cause trouble and twisted panties. Just build a car and enjoy it, who cares who says your (insert magazine term here) car is "dead", did you give it that term in the first place? I call mine "piece of sh$#" hence forever securing my status in the automotive hobby.

[barraza]

While you are correct, the article doesn't exist in a vacuum. His opinion of the build style is widely known through previous comments. It's not as much as what is in print as is what's "between the lines"

B.S.

It was an article about retro cars from the 70's and 80's. Just because we here at PT.com like our style of cars, doesn't mean the rest of the world loves them. Are PT builds the only thing that should be featured in the mags? What a boring world that would be. Just because you know whats "between the lines" is no reason for the personal attacks. HR has featured plenty of protouring type vehicles over the years.

Don't you see that the original posters intent was to see how much of a rise he could get out of the knee jerk reaction before anyone noticed his post was pure bull****? He has a grand total of ONE post here, but he has been looking in to see the reaction. He is probably still laughing.

[Rhino]

Speaking of Knee jerk reactions... barraza, would you kindly point me to which portion of my statement is BS? The one about his opinion being known, or the one where the article doesn't sum up everything about a person? FYI, I've read the issue in question. If you would have read any of my other comments you would have found a few things.

1.) I never commented on him personally, only his opinion.
You're right that that a guy doing his job doesn't deserve personal ridicule

2.) I've commented that I respect other build styles, and the thought that in 20 years from now we'll probably all sit back and laugh about some of the current trends. I would venture to say my automotive interests are rather diverse. Some builds might not be my cup of tea, but sure hope people aren't building cars just because I think they're cool.

If he laughs about some of these reactions... let him laugh. I'm on the other side of the table and joining in. The difference is that he's doing it for nothing more than a reaction and obviously has nothing better to do with his time.

/threadjack

[barraza]

Rhino
Your comment implies that this thread has legimate beefs because of something Frieburger said in the past. The FACT is that this entire bitch session is about an erroneous assertion, ie that he said PT is dead in the latest edition, and that is HR's position. It's silly when you look at the whole magazine and see the same issue has an EFI install on a 65 malibu, and the Keisler cuda with a 6.1 hemi that could be considered PT.

Look at any of the threads about what "defines" PT and you can see we don't even have a cohesive definition ourselves. I think the backlash against PT in the media is similar to the backlash against billet street rods that spawned the "rat" look.

[Rhino]

I was simply pointing out that you can't determine someone's intentions from one issue of one magazine. In my opinion, it's not the actual article prompting most people's reactions, rather it's his past statements. It was also an attempt to bring the discussion back to a slightly more fact based discussion.

I think we're just on two sides of the same coin.

[firewood]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.

[Ron L]

REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,)Why is that stupid?

[firewood]

Putting a rear spoiler on a FWD car increases downforce on the wrong end of the car. A very common 'ricer' mod.

[JohnUlaszek]

Pro-Touring is dead!

Long Live Pro-Touring!

[Damn True]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.


CannI'uh gett'a Aaaamen'uh!?!?

Allthepeoplesay....

[Ron L]

Putting a rear spoiler on a FWD car increases downforce on the wrong end of the car. A very common 'ricer' mod.Front spoilers on RWD cars are wrong, then? How about FWD touring cars with rear wings?

[TonyHuntimer]

Wow. Look at all this angst.

Here's my $.02. If you're looking at Pro-touring as a style, then it will never die as long as people want cars that do more than just go in a straight line. That will never die.
But If you look at Pro-toring as a TREND, well you can say its dying, and that's a GOOD THING! Just like any style, there are the hardcore people that will always believe in building a car a certain way because it meet their needs, and you have the trend-humpers, that come along and build half assed versions of that style just because they saw it on a magazine cover.
It happened in the import world. There are the guys that build cars with every part you can buy, and make whole import scene look cheesy with double deck REAR spoliers on FWD cars (stupid,) fart can exhausts, 19 inch wheels on a civic, and neon day glo paint. Then you have the guys with the quiet, unassuming cars that run 10's.
And so it is in Pro-touring. When it was hot, people would slap a set of 17" TT2's on a Camaro with stock 4 wheel drum brakes and torched springs and think they were hot. People put bigger wheels than could possibly be useful on their cars just so they had "the look" (I'll admit, I did.) But when a trend dies, the style lives on with the hardcore. AND YOU SHOULD BE GLAD!

So if Fieberger (sp?) wants to walk away, then I say good riddance and take all the poseurs with you.

And to the hardcore, I say your corners await you.

Well played Kurt!

Now, would all of youz guyz please let this thread die! We all know DF is not a fan of Pro-Touring. That was established years ago. You're not going to change his mind by keeping this going. This thread was started by somebody who never posted on this forum and hasn't posted again since. This person who will remain nameless is just trying to get everyone upset. The longer this thread lives and causes you guys to start arguing...the dumbererer we look. In fact, if we can't be civil about a moot post...we'll be forced to lock down.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

why?

just so jesus will bring hotrod back from the dead to get his shoes back from frieburger?

I think jesus is a pt fan personally.. he will resurrect the Crusher camaro himself.. then slap the **** outta DF.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I keep playing it over and over in my mind... thats the only way itll end.. im sure of it!






































https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/jesus_dinosaur-1.jpg

[Roadrage David]

as a European , i must say that Pro-touring is not a trent but a nesasety and a ivolution!!! in muscle cars, IF we whant to take the muscle cars of the past into this century, insted of into a museum.
The divelopt pro-touring parts have found there way not only in the pro touring seen but in EVERY OTHER seen that hase anything to do with v8 cars .
the Pro-touring theme might be ubsorbt in other seens, in sutcha way that useing these divelopt parts, wil be the rule, but its influence can not be ignored .. what the editor of that magazine thusend seem to realize that out side the USA in the likes of europe the folow up seen walks about 5 to 7 years behind!! so taking that in consideration the seen is stil ecspending and growing!!!!!.

[firewood]

Front spoilers on RWD cars are wrong, then? How about FWD touring cars with rear wings?
Touring cars don't have rear spoliers that look like bleachers. This is too far off topic to find pix.


Hmm. I take that one sentence back.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/800pxRobert_Huff_2009_WTCC_Pau-1.jpg

But everything else still stands.

[Ron L]

Touring cars don't have rear spoliers that look like bleachers. This is too far off topic to find pix.We were discussing function, not what they look like. If you're just talking looks then people can put spoilers and sideskirts on whatever car and whichever end they want.

[southernfriedcj]

Why the bashing of the '70s cars?

My first car (in '78)was a '69 Firebird convertible.
The first mod I made to the car was Cherry Bombs.
Then came the Cragar SS/Radial T/A's, 15x8 & 14x6, with Gabriel HiJackers.
After that I purchased some Hooker Show tubes (chrome side pipes with 4 into 1 front pieces.
Then came the RAIII out of a '70 Trans Am, M/T valve covers, 780 Double Pumper, ect.

Shortly after that I started to want the Road Race look & performance I had been seeing at Road Atlanta.
I switched to a set of Honeycombs (same size on all corners), 4 wheel discs from a T/A, WS6 steering box, T/A steering wheel, anti sway bars, Koni shocks, Ciba (?) driving lights, ect.
I wanted some Recarro seats and a roll bar, but I couldn't afford them.
I also wanted to flare the fenders and put on wider wheels & tire on all 4 corners, but cost was an issues, as was my mentor telling me not to cut up a classic (in '79/'80!).
There were also IROC style cars hitting the streets in the early '80s and Cafe' style cars in the late '70s. Folks were flaring wheel wells, putting wide tires and handling equipment, big brakes and BIG spoilers on cars. All the car rags sold anti sway bars, fiberglass fender flares (Greenwood Corvette style was popular), side pipes (like those seen on Trans Am racers), fiberglass spoliers ect.

I would say that ProTouring is not new and is not dying, it's been here for a few decades.

Here's a couple IROC cars from '77 & '78. This style soon started appearing on the street & parts started appearing in the magazines.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

southernfried... but all i can say is those 2 cars are the shi t.

and for fries and burgers..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/xMk31VLyPqos1fnn4qOolzoHo1_500-1.gif

['70rs]

I'm gonna stick with the pro-touring theme. And David Frieburger can go pound sand.


Kinda what I am thinking too.....:machine:

[chicane67]

Kinnan actually stated that Pro-Touring was dead... not Freiburger.

There is a big difference between the two of them... Freiburger can drive and Kinnan thinks he can drive. Just as with the magazine... Freiburger is also a better editor.

And kudos Kurt... well stated.

[coolwelder62]

Pro-touring is to say, it will ever die.Just you and see, it will go :1st:down in history as the greatest thing to ever be.

[trapin]

Annnnnnnnd THAT'S A WRAP!!!

We'll go ahead and call it. Time of death; 1:08pm.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/endofthread-1.gif