Mustang II

[rayy]

I am looking at getting a 1965 Comet that has a Mustang II conversion. Has anyone had the task of making these conversions handle. Or is it a lost cause. Thanks.

[NOGO]

With a correct spring and shock combo and sway bars it should handle well. You can make a lot of suspensions handle well if you get them dialed in and get the car balanced right.

[JRouche]

I am looking at getting a 1965 Comet that has a Mustang II conversion. Has anyone had the task of making these conversions handle. Or is it a lost cause. Thanks.

The mustang II suspension isnt better than many stock suspensions so you dont see it much here. But... It is heads and shoulders above the stock comet front. Same with my 62 Nova. I have yet to drive mine, doing some modifications from when I put it in 12 years ago.

Here is a really long post I put on LG http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=20605 re: my changes. I have replaced the coil springs with air ride tech shockwaves. And a couple other things. I am thinking this car should handle quite well, but will still need some fine tuning.. Enjoy LOL JR

From the LG site:
And I really thought the front was gonna be a breeze. I already had a mustang II suspension. I was thinking that adapting the air ride shock waves in place of the springs and shocks was gonna be a piece of cake compared to the rear end swap. Wrong answer.

I got the lower arms all trimmed of the spring pockets, welded up some additional plates to take place of the spring cup. Beefed up the bolt mounting area for coilover type stresses not just a shock anymore.

Then decided I didnt want the rubber bushings so looked high and low to see what I wanted. Delrin was in mind, but decided on some metal bushings. Made some on the lathe out of 4140PH steel. If they dont work I can still use part of them for a delrin bushing easy enough. I made them with grease fittings through the CAs so I can lube them. I dont know, they may be ok, I have my doubts. I have a bar of delrin sitting here just in case.

Then started looking at the upper arms. I had tubular arms already. But I wanted a lil more adjustability and I dont like the way the MII upper arms mount to the K-member. Its a sliding type mount for adjustment. Well that works great for the stock MII K-members. But most after market members there is a smooth top where the uppers mount. Where it needs to be kinda serrated and act as a friction surface to keep the upper's shaft from moving around.

So anyway, I bought some SPC upper control arms and welded in new mounts on the k-mem so its a vertical mount. I use shims and the adjustable arms to get the best curve of camber, camber gain and caster.

And beside a few issues with room to run the air lines for the springs and clearancing the surrounding metal to clear the air bag. Had to cut, weld and grind more than I expected. New beefier curved plates had to be put in place of what I had before. All that other work I did years ago was removed with the plasma. What a waste.

And thats not even a dis on the air bag system. I just eyeballed it at first and though she would clear. But no, a lil clearancing needed to take place. No big deal. Its all fun, its my hobby.

So after all the control arms were set up I made sure the new wilwood 13" brakes were gonna fit. That was after ALOT of talking with my supplier and running into some issues.

See, I needed a zero offset brake, my tire and wheel combo (8x17") were already set and very close, really close, no wiggle room at all. Well, they dont make one, wilwood. But my supplier does. But in actuality it seems they havent marketed it much because it wasnt correct. After some returns and some spacer issues I got it to work and it is perfect zero offset and the rotor runs true and square in the cal and right in the center of the cal. My custom set of spacers made it happen. More lathe work https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/02/smile1-1.gif

So then after all the other stuff was done the hard part came. I had to stuff a roll bar in there somewhere. It had to clear the rack and pinion, and be able to clear all the parts, tie rods, control arms, frame and tires at full droop and bump, because of the air ride and the extended travel.

ERRR!!!! I was at a loss. I laid on my back for hours, working various configurations out. When I thought I saw a good mounting it would hit somewhere. Maybe not at ride height, but when the suspension was bottomed out. Or if I got it so it wouldnt hit bottomed out it would hit something while bottomed out and at full turn. It was always something. It got to the point where I wasnt gonna be able to put a bar in there. There just wasnt any room. Really, it was tight EVERYWHERE!!!! That wasnt gonna work. It needed to go in.

So I sat on my back some more. My wife thinks Im sleeping under there. I tell her Im visualizing but she still thinks Im sleeping. Hahaha Been that way for the whole car build, years. Sometimes I just have to lay down under there and give it some thought. And really, its kinda comfortable. I like looking at the underside just thinking.

So one day it clicked!!! I saw a path, and thought WTF!!! It was there the entire time.

So I made all my measurements and went to the speedway site where I was gonna get my bar from to begin with. My rear bar is from them. I got the spring rate I "think" is in the ball park. Its a guess at this point. There is no one that can give you roll bars rates for cars, these cars anyway. Or any, thay speak of bar diameters, but dont even talk about rates. What gives. Guess when you by a round bar they just talk about size not spring rate. What a shame, thay are spings, Ill toss out my spring rates on the build post I will have. But it wont help anyone cause bar dealers dont give the rates. The one piece bar dealers anyway. One bar fits all I guess is their idea. Speedway can get you any rate in any size you need. From 100lbs to 3400lbs. If you see a one piece bar published with spring rates lemme know. I havent found one. They all wanna talk about bar sizes. LOL Bar size?? Thats like when you go into a car dealer and are haggling the price of the car you want and they ask you what monthly payment do you want. WHAT!!! Its not about monthly payments, its about a hard number, cash in that case. Spring rates in a roll bars case, not bar diameter.

Anyway I strayed https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/02/smile1-1.gif So I bought the bar, arms, pillow blocks, rod ends from another company and mocked it all up. I bent the arms under heat and a template, they came out perfect. Stuffed it all under there and wow, Im tight. The tires clear the arms at full turn by a 1/4". The arms clear the frame by a 1/4". The links (two rod ends, one female, one male) clear the tie rods by 3/16" at full turning and suspension travel. The arms clear the tie rods by a 1/4". The pillow blocks are as far forward as they can go, too much really, had to make some special plates. All the while the arms are level with the frame and the links are vertical at ride height.

So as of today I pulled it ALL out and setting it up to paint it in my ghetto cardboard box paint booth. Hope I remember how it all goes back together.

[rayy]

Thanks for the help. After looking at the car more it is a full frame car with mustang II an a four link. Looks as if it was a drag car but now converted to street duty.

[Bryce]

Ravy,

Take a look at the susepension i built and design. It is better than stock by a lot. and geometrically better than a stock MII. But a full frame will not allow you to go back to a stock style. But you can do the mods that JR recommended. And you will end up with a good setup.

Comets are cool. i would like to see more on here!!

[BRIAN]

Wilwood or Morrison make a better designed spindle for M2. Also SPC sells their adjustable arms. From there it would be springs and shocks which the sky is the limit.

Mustang 2 suspensions are far from the original on the Mustang.

[silver69camaro]

Wilwood or Morrison make a better designed spindle for M2.

Wilwood makes the spindle, but it actually doesn't work well on stock Mustang II geometry. Many changes need to be made to take advantage of the taller UBJ height.

[terryr]

alcino has a mustang II that handles well.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17433

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/03/zspcmo-1.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/zspcmo.jpg

[Kenova]

alcino has a mustang II that handles well.


Now there is an understatement!

Ken

[rayy]

Well the Comet deal did not work out. Plan B is a Maverick with and LS set up. I would like to get some input on frontend. Do I leave the shock towers and go with a coilover setup like the one from TCP or cut them out and go with a mustang II set up. I would like to get some input on this. I want to do some opentrack stuff every now and then but not a pure track car. Thanks

[Bryce]

tcp for sure. Or build something. Make sure you have adjustability so you can make changes from street to track. I would not do an MII as you would still need make modifications to get the adjustability and the initial settings you want.

[rayy]

Thanks for the input. The Mustang II swap I think will cost more in the long run as well.

[Bryce]

it might. also with an MII you need to use a mustang OEM rack that is front steer. i personally like rear steer better. Due to ackerman angle and packaging. An oem rack is ok but i would perfer the strong TCP rack. that one has no deflection and is the best on the market for our cars.

begin with the end in mind so you dont wish you did something else at the begining. and be realistic with the goals of the car. you dont need to have a over built street car or an under built track car.

[rayy]

Does anyone know much about RSS stuff?

[Bryce]

i have researched them alot. What information are you looking for.

[GrabberGT]

Well the Comet deal did not work out. Plan B is a Maverick with and LS set up. I would like to get some input on frontend. Do I leave the shock towers and go with a coilover setup like the one from TCP or cut them out and go with a mustang II set up. I would like to get some input on this. I want to do some opentrack stuff every now and then but not a pure track car. Thanks

Is that LS as in LS motor??? You may reconsider the MII suspension then. The Maverick shock towers offer very little room for for anything other than a 302 especially when it comes to headers. Consider the width of your motor with headers, oil pan/steering linkage conflicts and motor mount location. Its not impossible but ease of install and cost will definitely be against you.

[rayy]

RSS makes a rack kit that looks good but just dont know much about the company. They also make shock tower clearance set up that adds alot of room.

[Bryce]

to me it looks like RRS uses an OEM rack that they modified. Their stuff looks good. But keep in mind as a suspension design the struts are not the best design. a-arms are better. but struts can still perform very well.

[rayy]

Thanks for all your help. I just sold my 69 mustang and wanting to start a new project so my head is spining on what to do next. I just dont want to have 40k in the next one. Somthing not so mainstream cougar, falcon, maverick,. Just not sure.

[rayy]

I think I will have to go with a Mustang II set up because of the shock towers. I was looking at Rod and Customs Mustang II set up. Anyone used them before? I am not set on them as of yet but not sure which Mustang II set up will give me the ajustabilty that I need. Now like I said this is no full time track car just a opentrack twice a year and a Goodguys autocross. Thanks for the help.

[GrabberGT]

The R&C kit is a favorite in the Maverick community for its quality and ease of installation. I dont think there are many of them that have gone as far as to really put the suspension thru the ringer though.

I'm using the Total Control coil-over conversion on mine and really like it. I need dropped spindles though to get the geometry right. My car sits lower than the kit was designed for.

[HotRod47]

I just purchased the R&C kit with the coil overs for my Maverick. I should have it all next week. To me there was no other way to go. Just beng able to get rid of the shock towers was woth it. And with the coil overs I should have plenty of adjustment in the front end.

[windsor]

I've heard nothing but good about Rod & Custom....but no personal experience....yet. The good thing about them is the only do Fords.

Should be getting my MII from them in the near future.

[Bryce]

windsor, i guess you scrapped your idea of the modified struts? talk with JR he made some mods to his MII to get better geometry out of it?