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Bill Howell
10-06-2009, 02:20 PM
I never had a doubt, but today Scott and the guys at Motorstate verified that we will be having a Motorstate Challenge in 2010! :firefire:

The date is still up in the air but will be nailed down in the next couple weeks for all those that need to schedule vacation time.

Just so we know, how many are not able to come if we do it on Father's Day again? I know it effects some, but that weekend really works good for Scott and the guys and there are no conflicting shows or events that weekend. If you really would come if we moved it but can not with it on Fathers Day weekend, please post that info in this thread so we can make a decision based on facts.

Stay tuned here guys for information as we set the dates and put tickets on sale. This event sold out last year and that was the first year, so I know they will not last long once we offer them for the 2010 show.

bret
10-06-2009, 03:29 PM
Let it happen on Fathers day...my kids love the races!

Steve1968LS2
10-06-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm in.. Thinking of shipping the car out there again.. not for the whole summer though, I missed it too much. lol

But for this event, it's worth the $$$

Bad94
10-06-2009, 04:16 PM
After going to RTTH's i think im going to have to go to this and rtths in 2010

Bill Howell
10-06-2009, 04:19 PM
After going to RTTH's i think im going to have to go to this and rtths in 2010

RTTHs is fun and I don't drive far to get there.......however, to get the chance to run on a real road race track like Gingerman, nothing I have done compares. Then to get to autocross the next day, too much fun.
This is a must do event for me. Oh, did I mention some of the coolest cars and car guys on the planet will be there???

Yelcamino
10-06-2009, 04:20 PM
I'm definately in for this! I had to miss it last year so I could relocate.

Mike Holleman
10-06-2009, 04:36 PM
Father's Day weekend works for me. My son enjoyed the event last year. I also really like the road course. Wish we could find one near PF for the RTTH.
Mike

MuscleRodz
10-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Don't dad's get to do what they want on Father's day?:) I will be there this year weather permitting.

JEFFTATE
10-08-2009, 05:12 AM
I'll do it again !!!
1600 miles round trip is nothing to me..
Drive it up , thrash it , drive it home ..

Fathers Day is cool !
I might bring my Dad ..

Van B
10-08-2009, 04:22 PM
Count me in!

wiedemab
10-08-2009, 04:30 PM
I will do my best to make it, Father's Day or not.

Finch
10-08-2009, 04:33 PM
you know I am in

hotrdblder
10-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Jrs is already on there way....
can't wait:1st:

Steve1968LS2
10-08-2009, 04:54 PM
Jrs is already on there way....
can't wait:1st:

Drive slow or you will have a long wait.

Oh, I will have real brake pads this time.. lol

tellyv
10-09-2009, 06:06 AM
I rather not have it on fathers day but I'll still go!

dropit69
10-09-2009, 07:40 AM
works for me..

protour73
10-11-2009, 07:15 PM
I was all paid up and ready to go this year but weather dashed my trip to Gingerman..........but I'm in for 2010 !!! I am NOT missing it again. :twothumbs

mpozzi
10-12-2009, 05:54 PM
Looking forward to it as I also missed it this year (2009). Wish I could bring my dad as he'd have a great time ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

tommycomfort
10-12-2009, 06:55 PM
You can count us in! My Dad can come along again if he likes.
Tom

Bow Tie 67
10-12-2009, 07:19 PM
That weekend works for me, I told the kids if they want to spend it with me I'll be in Mich. Who am I kidding if they come they will be at the waterpark.

Charley Lillard
10-12-2009, 08:08 PM
Can we just do two days of Gingerman and skip the autocross :-)

Steve1968LS2
10-12-2009, 08:24 PM
Can we just do two days of Gingerman and skip the autocross :-)

Chicken... lol

Remember.. road racing is for fast cars.. autocross is for fast drivers.. at least that's what Mary told me.

Embrace the cones!

mpozzi
10-12-2009, 08:24 PM
Can we just do two days of Gingerman and skip the autocross :-)

Nice try and NO!!

LOL,
Mary P.

Charley Lillard
10-12-2009, 09:49 PM
and I'm not a fast driver so I wanna do road racing. A 700hp car and a 35 mph autocross in first gear is...................

Bill Howell
10-12-2009, 09:54 PM
and I'm not a fast driver so I wanna do road racing. A 700hp car and a 35 mph autocross in first gear is...................
The great equalizer!! haha

hotrdblder
10-13-2009, 05:05 AM
Chicken... lol

Remember.. road racing is for fast cars.. autocross is for fast drivers.. at least that's what Mary told me.

Embrace the cones!
nice try on the driver deal, lol doesn't take much car or driver to go into a turn at 29 mph.

Steve1968LS2
10-13-2009, 06:45 AM
nice try on the driver deal, lol doesn't take much car or driver to go into a turn at 29 mph.

Speeds and turns are all relative.. If you don't believe me then drive Buttonwillow at 100mph and then zig zag through an abandoned residential neighborhood at 100mph..

I think Autocrossing is far more "furious" than road racing since everything happens so fast. I like both, it's just that if get more practive at autocrossing (I need some sort of track school).

So you don't think it takes much car or driver to be fast in an autocross? Then what are you if you're slow in an autocross?

PARKERRS
10-13-2009, 06:51 AM
I'm there on whatever day! I wouldn't miss it for anything. Like Charley said, I prefer the track, but I'm slow on the autox anyway LOL.

John Wright
10-13-2009, 06:58 AM
and I'm not a fast driver so I wanna do road racing. A 700hp car and a 35 mph autocross in first gear is...................
....challenging. At least with 700hp you can drive with the rear tires instead of the front...LOL

hotrdblder
10-13-2009, 10:11 AM
lol steve, all i am saying is it takes alot more then a fast car to go fast on the track, its WAY easier to have guts at 29 mph then it does at 120, and being fast on the road course takes guts sometimes.
I am not saying autox is not technical etc, but is way less demanding on both car and driver.

Steve1968LS2
10-13-2009, 10:44 AM
lol steve, all i am saying is it takes alot more then a fast car to go fast on the track, its WAY easier to have guts at 29 mph then it does at 120, and being fast on the road course takes guts sometimes.
I am not saying autox is not technical etc, but is way less demanding on both car and driver.

I think what they mean by that saying is that autocross is for "fast drivers".. which is to say that the reaction times are much quicker. Sure, on a road course you're going 100mph but you have much more time to set up the next event where in an autocross you constantly moving the wheel and trying to react to events that come up very quick. In other words things happen on an autocross course far "faster" and if you botch a segment there's no making up in the rest of the course.

Besides, we were'nt talking about "guts".. but rather the technical challenges of each type of event. If autocross was "easy" then you would expect the cars that win on the big track to win on the autocorss course as well.

I think you're taking the saying (which was coined by an autocrosser I'm sure) to litteral.. :)

Steve1968LS2
10-13-2009, 10:46 AM
Oh, and at the Bowler autocross I was hitting 70 mph.. I know it's not 120.. but just saying.

And Mary says some bigger SCCA courses can see 100mph in segments.

Putting the "29 mph" tag seen at Goodguys autocrosses on all autocrosses is a bit unfair to the hobby.

tazzz25906112
10-18-2009, 05:57 AM
Mark me in with both cars Bill,,,,, I can't wait!!!

Stielow
10-27-2009, 05:17 PM
I'll be there with a new '69 looking forward to Gingerman had a blast last year. Great event.

BTW the Autocross --- SUCKS :enguard:

But I've been at Walmart practicing my autocross skills... Why would I build a 600 HP with Brembo brake to drive around a parking lot at 35 MPH... lol

Stielow

Steve1968LS2
10-27-2009, 05:28 PM
I'll be there with a new '69 looking forward to Gingerman had a blast last year. Great event.

BTW the Autocross --- SUCKS :enguard:

But I've been at Walmart practicing my autocross skills... Why would I build a 600 HP with Brembo brake to drive around a parking lot at 35 MPH... lol

Stielow

If it's so easy then why don't the same people the win on "real track" win at the autocross?

And to compare all autocross events to the 35mph tiny Goodguys event really isn't fair to the sport.

Come on now.. embrace the cones ;)

Hey, how are my stories coming?

Charley Lillard
10-27-2009, 05:36 PM
"If it's so easy then why don't the same people the win on "real track" win at the autocross?"
Maybe because we hate autocross and don't set our cars up for it ?

Charley Lillard
10-27-2009, 05:38 PM
It's like practicing school zone speed...

Stielow
10-27-2009, 06:01 PM
If it's so easy then why don't the same people the win on "real track" win at the autocross?

And to compare all autocross events to the 35mph tiny Goodguys event really isn't fair to the sport.

Come on now.. embrace the cones ;)

Hey, how are my stories coming?


Come on, when you have a road race track to run on why would you run an Autocross. lol.

I understand the autocross deal. I started out autocrossing an MGB and would tow it 3 hours to run a fast course. I would take it to open parking lots and practice for hours. Now that I have experience road racing I don't like to autocross a high HP car. But it is safe and anyone can do it so I'll dust off my old skills.....

I'll get to some stories after SEMA.

Stielow:6gears:

Steve1968LS2
10-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Come on, when you have a road race track to run on why would you run an Autocross. lol.

I understand the autocross deal. I started out autocrossing an MGB and would tow it 3 hours to run a fast course. I would take it to open parking lots and practice for hours. Now that I have experience road racing I don't like to autocross a high HP car. But it is safe and anyone can do it so I'll dust off my old skills.....

I'll get to some stories after SEMA.

Stielow:6gears:

lol.. got me there... but a REAL autocross is fun.. heck, we hit 70 or more mph.. not a buck twenty but speed is relative.. and it's like $35 for the whole deal.

And while big HP is wasted in an autocross it really is a great test of a car's suspension an ability to quickly change direction. I like the challenge and how the elements come at you so fast where in a road track you have time to think about what's next.. in autox it's just "react".

Dust off your skills? I thought Charlie was driving his car in the autox and you were piloting the road course and 0-60-0?

In any event, can't wait to hear some of those stories in a week or so.. now go get to work on my tech stories! :)

Steve1968LS2
10-27-2009, 06:13 PM
"If it's so easy then why don't the same people the win on "real track" win at the autocross?"
Maybe because we hate autocross and don't set our cars up for it ?

What's to set up? Just have your car set to handle.. it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. There's no reason why a car can't do both well.

But seriously.. the "35 mph" comment is a bit misleading.

In any event, I enjoy both for different reasons. If I had a road course closer than 170 miles then maybe I would do the road track deal more often.

See ya in Vegas Charlie.. first beer is on me.

Bill Howell
10-27-2009, 06:19 PM
It's like practicing school zone speed...


OMG! ROFLMAO, too funny C.:rotfl:

Charley Lillard
10-27-2009, 08:04 PM
The Motorstates Challenge autocross was set up to limit speeds to 35mph...I never got out of 1st gear.

Me and Stielow are each driving all segments but only one of us can compete because for some reason they think there will be complaints if we both get to compete. Since I'm the slower guy, Mark can compete. I will just run for fun so nobody gets their panties in a bunch.

Sucks but that is how it is.....

Ron S
11-11-2009, 05:28 AM
You fast guys can argue about Auto X vs. Roadcourse all you want, for us novice drivers they're both cool as hell. Any chance I get to thrash on my junk, road course, auto x, drag racing, even the cruises, I'm all in. Ron

parsonsj
11-11-2009, 05:53 AM
I prefer the big tracks too. Maybe I've just driven too many AutoX that were set up for Miatas. The big open spaces seem more appropriate for our cars.

jp

Steve1968LS2
11-11-2009, 07:45 AM
I prefer the big tracks too. Maybe I've just driven too many AutoX that were set up for Miatas. The big open spaces seem more appropriate for our cars.

jp

Nobody likes a tight little autocross.. but real SCCA deal is way too much fun.

I like both, I'm just better at the fast reaction deal in an autocross since I don't have much experience "finding the line" on a road course

Steve1968LS2
11-11-2009, 07:52 AM
The Motorstates Challenge autocross was set up to limit speeds to 35mph...I never got out of 1st gear.
.....

I think you continue to miss the point of an autocross.. it's a test of a car's abitily to quickly manuever.

Also, almost no autocross courses are "35mph"... most are in the 60mph range with some up near 100mph.

But the speed isn't important since it's relative to the course. In other words it's not a speed test.. it's a handling and driver reation test.

Charley Lillard
11-11-2009, 08:34 AM
You miss my point...I like speed tests....

Vegas69
11-11-2009, 09:40 AM
You fast guys can argue about Auto X vs. Roadcourse all you want, for us novice drivers they're both cool as hell. Any chance I get to thrash on my junk, road course, auto x, drag racing, even the cruises, I'm all in. Ron

Bingo! I'm lucky that my local chapter sets up some pretty fast autocross tracks. We have the parking lots to make it happen. I'm usually in 2nd gear the whole run. Last time I was bouncing off the limiter in one section. I have to admit that when I watch some of the good guys autocrosses it looks pointless to me. I want some speed otherwise I would've bought a miata or mini. Well, probably not but you get the point.

formula98
11-12-2009, 12:18 PM
I'll be there, I wouldn't miss it, had a great time last year. Got to meet some great people, spend quality time with my son and enjoy some really cool cars. Fathers day is ok, my son will be with me again this next year. Hope to have a project finished that we can bring and compete with. I like both the Auto X and the road course. It's been years since I've done the road course's, but would love to give it a try again.

Jim Nilsen
11-25-2009, 12:25 PM
I can hardly wait for June to get here. The Cormaro will be ready for sure and so will I.:)

protour73
11-25-2009, 06:39 PM
I can hardly wait for June to get here. The Cormaro will be ready for sure and so will I.:)

Ok Jim......I'm on the way......a 2 car convoy?

RJ66
11-26-2009, 11:25 AM
You fast guys can argue about Auto X vs. Roadcourse all you want, for us novice drivers they're both cool as hell. Any chance I get to thrash on my junk, road course, auto x, drag racing, even the cruises, I'm all in. Ron


I agree, I had the opportunity to be involved with the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational & had a blast. I wasn't the fastest car or driver there but had a great time either way. I believe that any chance we get to use our cars for what they are truely built for is what it's all about. I will be there with project "Re-Peeled", & planning on running the car to the best of my abilities & enjoy hanging around with great people.:1st:

Thank You
Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

tazzz25906112
11-26-2009, 05:18 PM
I agree, I had the opportunity to be involved with the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational & had a blast. I wasn't the fastest car or driver there but had a great time either way. I believe that any chance we get to use our cars for what they are truely built for is what it's all about. I will be there with project "Re-Peeled", & planning on running the car to the best of my abilities & enjoy hanging around with great people.:1st:

Thank You
Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

Randy you're absolutely right,,,, we are all so lucking there is a head of momentum growing for these types of events... I appreciate were Charley is coming from and love the fast open type environment as well,,,, however the tight tracks/parking lots make things interesting too.. All about a balanced deal I guess

"The Key Point in it all is the fun and the company",,,,,,, the rest is just ****s and giggles so to speak LOL..

Charley Lillard
11-26-2009, 05:27 PM
Don't mind me...I just like giving Rupp crap about autocross...

RJ66
11-26-2009, 07:20 PM
Charley I think that is what makes all these events fun is the comical razzing that goes on between competitors/friends. I'm just glad to be a part of it, & just maybe one of you will actually get a chance to enjoy a set of tail lights from a Orange 2nd gen.:6gears:


Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

Steve1968LS2
11-26-2009, 07:44 PM
Don't mind me...I just like giving Rupp crap about autocross...

That's because you can't give me crap about beating me there.. ;)

lol

Come on Charley.. embrace the cones.. you know you want to...

Charley Lillard
11-26-2009, 09:37 PM
Just bring your sorry ass over to the adult course..... :-)

CarlC
11-26-2009, 09:51 PM
Lol!

Steve1968LS2
11-27-2009, 12:23 PM
Just bring your sorry ass over to the adult course..... :-)

You're getting bitter in your old age.. ;)

Let me get my 427 done first.. I need more power to keep up with you.. even with you driving.. lol

Vegas69
11-27-2009, 01:36 PM
How much snort are you targeting?

68sixspeed
11-27-2009, 05:05 PM
Just bring your sorry ass over to the adult course..... :-)

Charlie... you're my new hero for that quote! plus I agree, auto-x just isn't the same after you get use to the higher speeds and tech of a full course. -Dan

Charley Lillard
11-27-2009, 05:13 PM
LOL...thanks....

Steve1968LS2
11-27-2009, 07:52 PM
How much snort are you targeting?

I was hoping for a conservative 635/640 and a good deal more torque. Been working on a cam profile with COMP that will yield goot low and midrange numbers.

I was looking at doing a blower, but I decided that adding more displacement doesn't add any weight. I can still hook the power I have, so a little more won't hurt.

Steve1968LS2
11-27-2009, 07:53 PM
Charlie... you're my new hero for that quote! plus I agree, auto-x just isn't the same after you get use to the higher speeds and tech of a full course. -Dan

I see them as apples and oranges.. as different as drag racing is from road course work.

68sixspeed
11-27-2009, 09:10 PM
I'm bored with drag racing too if that helps explain it... or maybe it's ADD... I can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time! I see cones I think apex and track out!

Vegas69
11-27-2009, 10:16 PM
I was hoping for a conservative 635/640 and a good deal more torque. Been working on a cam profile with COMP that will yield goot low and midrange numbers.

I was looking at doing a blower, but I decided that adding more displacement doesn't add any weight. I can still hook the power I have, so a little more won't hurt.

That's about all you need. I'm at 491/497 at the tires and wouldn't mind another 50-70. A small bump in compression and a mechanical cam and I'm there. I'm just waiting on a reason to open her up. It will be useless on the autocross but nice on the road course and drag strip. I think your're making a smart move for reliabiltiy for what we plan to do with these cars.

Van B
11-28-2009, 07:29 PM
I would like to invite everybody to come over to the big boy track in April for a nice tune up prior to Motorstate. Want high speeds? How's 160+ sound?

Join us in the land of cheese and beer to officially celebrate the end of winter.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61194

RJ66
12-04-2009, 07:52 PM
I might try to make it up with project"Re-Peeled".




Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

Van B
12-04-2009, 08:26 PM
Lose the might and just do it Randy. Actually there is some urgency in that if there are not enough registrations by January, the event will be cancelled and entry fees refunded. I would hate to see this happen.

See the new thread on the topic.https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62898

JohnC
12-05-2009, 06:52 AM
I look forward to it....hope my car is done by then...

Bow Tie 67
12-05-2009, 07:30 AM
I cant wait, by June I hope to have trail braking and heel / toe dialed in .............. oh, I almost forgot some cone dodging.

ProBell
12-08-2009, 05:10 AM
I just need a date!!! I would love to get to this event again. I suck at Auto Cross so I prefer the track.

ProBell
12-08-2009, 05:13 AM
As far as HP, My 400hp felt like we brought a knife to a gun fight.:) Randy

John Wright
12-08-2009, 07:15 AM
I was hoping for a conservative 635/640 and a good deal more torque. <snip> I can still hook the power I have, so a little more won't hurt.LOL...Steve, you sound like a true horsepower junkie/addict....LOL

Woot for more power!:machine:

protour73
12-08-2009, 05:00 PM
OMG.............is winter over yet? Oh wait......it's not winter yet...DAMN
I can't wait until June. :seizure:

Yelcamino
12-10-2009, 04:50 PM
Have the actual dates for this event been nailed down yet?

Mike Holleman
12-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Have the actual dates for this event been nailed down yet?
Father's day weekend. Same as last year is what Scott was saying awhile back.

WMCC Doug
12-26-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm really looking forward to this event as well. I has a great time last year. Hopefully I won't have a wedding to attend this year, and I can be around all day at Gingerman. I only got to run the first session in the morning before I had to head back to Grand Rapids for the wedding, but still had a blast flying around the road course. :-)

protour73
12-27-2009, 05:26 AM
.........................only 173 days till Gingerman!! LOL :firefire:

Jim Nilsen
12-27-2009, 06:24 AM
.........................only 173 days till Gingerman!! LOL :firefire:
Your a tease , you know that don't you !!!

Scott Wahlstrom
12-29-2009, 07:09 AM
Hey Everyone,
Sorry I haven't had a chance to post anything for a bit. Seems like from Labor Day until the New Year is a blur with tradeshows and events.
Well, the 2010 Motor State Challenge will be on Fathers Day weekend again. The official dates are June 18, 19 & 20. We really tried to move it but there were too many conflicts with other events.
We'll get the registration going soon but I just wanted to give everyone a shout and let you know we are working away at getting everything organized again for another great time. Gingerman is locked in for Saturday and we are making arrangements for the cruise and the autocross. Speaking of Autocross, judging by the comments on this string of post, the autocross is not a favorite among most. I did speak with our SCCA guys after last years event and they assured me they could layout a more challanging autocross with the parking lot space we have at LMC. Not sure it will be any faster but it could be longer.
Bill and the guys are also working on nailing down the tire rules so that will be clear and consistant before the event. I believe they are trying to come up with rules that will make it fair and affordable for everyone at all events.
We appreciated everyones participation last year and I thought we had a great time. We'll definitely do our best to make it better this year so don't hesitate to drop me a note with any concerns or suggestions you have. I'll contact the Ramada Hotel and Water Park (Surfari Joe's) and get the deal worked out again for 2010 so you can start making your reservations soon.
Feel free to contact me here at work if you have any questions.
Hope you all had a wonderful Holiday.

Scott Wahlstrom
[email protected]

protour73
12-29-2009, 12:55 PM
SWEET.......................thanks for the update Scott. :hail:

171 more days!!!!!!!!!!!

JEFFTATE
12-29-2009, 08:59 PM
Thanks Scott !!
I'm looking forward to coming back this year ..

Yelcamino
12-30-2009, 04:07 AM
Thanks for the update! I'm looking forward to this event since I missed out on it last year!

PT Sportwagon
12-30-2009, 09:44 PM
Maybe I'll have the wagon more road ready and make this event. Basically as long as it is safe It can run, correct?

Tim

Vinz68
01-08-2010, 04:10 AM
I'm in this year!! I still cant believe I could'nt make this and run thru the hills!!

tazzz25906112
01-08-2010, 06:43 AM
I'm in with a group of "Crazy Canadian's" this year Scott LOL....
Drop me a line when you get a chance so that I can make arrangements to forward what we spoke about....

796spdbu
01-29-2010, 11:17 AM
Does any one know when registration is going to open. I dont want to miss my chance at this event...

Thanks,Greg

ProBell
01-29-2010, 01:32 PM
I talked to Chad at Motor State just a few days ago. He said they will have all the info out soon. I was looking for the tire rule so I can try to hunt down some used tires. Randy

Finch
01-29-2010, 01:45 PM
The tire rule will be 200 across all the events this year other than GG. I think GG is going down to 180

Steve1968LS2
01-29-2010, 02:46 PM
The tire rule will be 200 across all the events this year other than GG. I think GG is going down to 180

Yea, Mary Pozzi and myself bitched out GG since a bunch of people bought 180 tires last year. :)

200 is a fair treadwear.. I know what I'm running

ProBell
01-29-2010, 03:07 PM
Do you have a good tire you recommend? Or is that top secrete info ? Randy

Finch
01-29-2010, 03:43 PM
Do you have a good tire you recommend? Or is that top secrete info ? Randy


PS2 is a great tire and has the widest range of sizes. The NT05 is a nice tire but 295 is the widest they make in 18's so cut's most of us out who run 335's.

Bow Tie 67
01-30-2010, 11:04 AM
So looks like we have to race on street tires.

Street & race dont belong in the same sentence.

I know I will not be on whats considered the best as I can not afford to swap.

" Give me grip or give me death " Matt Altamore

Rant over.

protour73
01-30-2010, 11:41 AM
.......................139 more days :seizure:

Rod
01-30-2010, 10:27 PM
:wrc: sounds like fun!

ProBell
02-03-2010, 01:13 PM
I hope they have a R class. My car will destroy a set of street tires. The Goodyear run flats did not survive last year with me and Chris driving the car even thou we ran my slicks half the day at Gingerman. The car tends to pull chunks out of street tires. Would it be possible to have a race tire or open tire class?

Thanks Randy

Jim Nilsen
02-05-2010, 04:14 AM
I hope they have a R class. My car will destroy a set of street tires. The Goodyear run flats did not survive last year with me and Chris driving the car even thou we ran my slicks half the day at Gingerman. The car tends to pull chunks out of street tires. Would it be possible to have a race tire or open tire class?

Thanks Randy

Just the thought of that much tire destruction is reassuring me that I had better bring another set of wheels to get home on that will still be legal.

ProBell
02-05-2010, 01:18 PM
I do not want to scare anyone away about tire wear. If you do not have a fair amount of track time you probably will not hurt the tires that bad. I drove out 900 miles ran the event with 2 drivers that have a fair amount of track time and drove home on them. They were not new to start, but that is not a bad thing. Randy

Jim Nilsen
02-05-2010, 03:35 PM
I do not want to scare anyone away about tire wear. If you do not have a fair amount of track time you probably will not hurt the tires that bad. I drove out 900 miles ran the event with 2 drivers that have a fair amount of track time and drove home on them. They were not new to start, but that is not a bad thing. Randy

If the tires aren't screaming for help your not having any fun!.lol

I took the 260 treadwear Goodyears on the Vibe down a good ways in 30 or so laps at Gingerman. They had more grip than I had thought and was going much faster than anticipated. I had a lot more tread out back left but the fronts were definately getting abused and I plan on driving the Cormaro just as hard or harder and the BFG's are not as sticky so I can omly imagine how much more they will wear?

Steve Chryssos
06-04-2010, 06:51 AM
100, 140, 180, 200, 300, New car, old car........
It doesn't matter what your treadwear rating is at the Motor State Challenge.

No one will be turned away unless their car fails tech inspection (i.e. battery flopping around in trunk) or their driving style is deemed unsafe (i.e passing in restricted zones).

Come on out, enjoy yourself, be safe, and learn how to drive.

Bow Tie 67
06-04-2010, 09:13 AM
Doesn't matter for competition or just to drive?

66SuperSport
06-04-2010, 09:58 AM
To compete for awards/prizes you must have 200 or higher tread wear tires. Anyone can participate in the event as long as their vehicle and equipment can pass tech.

Steve Chryssos
06-04-2010, 03:52 PM
To participate.

Too much talk about competition these days. The marketing hype doesn't match reality. People gotta feed their kids and buy shoes. Don't worry about buying tires for a glorified track day. Everyone is welcome at the MSC. Don't let an overreaching tire sponsor scare you off, ruin your fun or waste your money.

This event is run by the South Bend region of the SCCA. You best believe these guys are laughing at all of our "smackdown" hype. And anyone who has attended a track day is smirking as well. The inaugural Motor State Challenge (last year) went off without a hitch. The treadwear rating was 100. Everyone was welcome. And in the end:
-Stielow won on 220 TW PS2's,
-Ryan Matthews came in 2nd overall on 300 TW KDW's and,
-Jake Parrott finished 3rd overall on 100 TW Toyo R888's.

So much for treadwear restrictions.

Come on out, have fun, and don't worry about treadwear or competition.

Steve Chryssos
06-04-2010, 03:58 PM
Oh and in case anyone thinks I'm sour grapes or whatever, here are my brand new 200 TW Nitto NT-05's next to my perfectly good Toyo R888's.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

ProBell
06-06-2010, 03:30 PM
I am glad to run the event no mater what the rules, but I must say I will miss my Hoosiers. They were worth 3 sec. a lap on my car. I will be bringing a set of junk run flats some one gave me.

See you all at the track. The count down is on. Randy

796spdbu
06-06-2010, 08:11 PM
Hey Guys,
I dont think im going to make it to the event,my car maynot be finished in time. I have paid my entry fee,so if someone needs one and I can transfer it,its all yours. Just P.M. me and let me know what I have to do.

Thanks

Bow Tie 67
06-10-2010, 03:08 AM
Just made it back home from the HRPT, 1600 miles and my engine limp mode problem is gone. Look out boys, I have full throttle available. Oh and 23 mpg on the highway, and power equivalent to my buddies 11.5 second blown lt1 vette.

ProBell
06-14-2010, 05:25 AM
Just looking at U-Tube and it looks like Gingerman added to the track. Does any one know if we will be running the new piece of track or staying on the old design? ( Classic as LRP calls it)
Getting ready to go. Cars 90% ready and trailer is half full. Randy

Bow Tie 67
06-14-2010, 06:04 AM
Looking forward to seeing you in the rear view again Randy. :) Just being a smart alec. Are you traveling with the father-in-law and uncle again?

ProBell
06-14-2010, 06:49 AM
Looks like I am running solo this year. See you soon. Randy

Bow Tie 67
06-14-2010, 06:53 AM
Looks like I am running solo this year. See you soon. Randy

Cool, maybe I can get a ride with a tighter nut behind the wheel.

ProBell
06-14-2010, 06:59 AM
I got my instructors license this year and hope I can give rides as well as go out with some other people to learn more or help people I can help. I just love to be on the track. Randy

Mike Holleman
06-14-2010, 08:36 AM
I got my instructors license this year and hope I can give rides as well as go out with some other people to learn more or help people I can help. I just love to be on the track. Randy
I'd love to ride a few laps with ya Randy. I need all the instruction I can get.
Mike

66SuperSport
06-15-2010, 04:11 AM
Randy

I'd really like you to take a few laps with me. We'll have our blue '66 Chevelle there. I don't have much track experience and would really appreciate your time and advice.

Thanks

Bow Tie 67
06-15-2010, 04:35 AM
Just looking at U-Tube and it looks like Gingerman added to the track. Does any one know if we will be running the new piece of track or staying on the old design? ( Classic as LRP calls it)
Getting ready to go. Cars 90% ready and trailer is half full. Randy

Randy I just watched some video of the expansion. :yum: :yum: that will add alot of speed on the back stretch, well over 100, maybe 120ish ++++

Van B
06-15-2010, 09:24 AM
Hey guys, my buddy Mark is coming out with one of Schwartz's cars and needs a room. If anyone needs to cancel their room at Surfari Joe's or knows someone who is cancelling please let me know.

Van B
06-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Hey guys, my buddy Mark is coming out with one of Schwartz's cars and needs a room. If anyone needs to cancel their room at Surfari Joe's or knows someone who is cancelling please let me know.

trapin
06-15-2010, 10:12 AM
I have a question....where is everyone meeting up Friday morning before the festivities start. In other words...where is Ground Zero for this event? Safari Joes? Lane Automotive?

Bow Tie 67
06-15-2010, 10:15 AM
I'll be at the hotel around noon, then head over to Lane.

ProBell
06-15-2010, 11:43 AM
Hi Guys

I will be glad to jump in with you. We will just have to make shire we are in different run groups.
I also have a room I was going to cancel at the motel. I will PM you my number. Give me a call so I can tell the Motel.

Thanks Randy

Jim Nilsen
06-16-2010, 12:19 PM
I have a question....where is everyone meeting up Friday morning before the festivities start. In other words...where is Ground Zero for this event? Safari Joes? Lane Automotive?

Lane Automotive is the place we all have to be to sign in from 12 to 3pm. There will be a bunch of us at Surfari Joes before that to sign in there and get rid of our luggage.

Bow Tie 67
06-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Lane Automotive is the place we all have to be to sign in from 12 to 3pm. There will be a bunch of us at Surfari Joes before that to sign in there and get rid of our luggage.

Silly me, how could I forget Surfari Joes has a bar. :idea: :smoke:

ProBell
06-17-2010, 01:27 AM
Leaving CT 5:30 am , Start the clock and see you all at the event. Hope every one has a good safe ride. Randy

Bow Tie 67
06-17-2010, 04:53 AM
Were heading out tomorrow 8:30 am. Looks like we will have a mini power tour. Chris and Lynda Jacobs, Rob Mcgaffin, Jim Nilsen, myself and several others from the local area.

avewhtboy
06-17-2010, 08:06 AM
hey guys I drove up from Atlanta yesterday, I am in Dyer Indiana now, planning on heading out tonight or in the morning for the Southhaven, about 2 hour ride from here according to the map I have.

I need a room and wouldn't mind caravaning out tomorrow, I am not participating, just came to watch, maybe ride along.

My cell is 404 307 6301 and my name is Rick, looking forward to a great weekend.

Bow Tie 67
06-17-2010, 10:13 AM
So I'm on a double shift today, which allows me to take tomorrow off. It's been a slow day, so I'm prepping for Saturday at Gingerman.


Check out this NSX at gingerman:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F7dWmQwBeo4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F7dWmQwBeo4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

wiedemab
06-17-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm trying to get all of my stuff ready and packed up. I have to work tomorrow and then I'll make the 5hr trip. I will just head straight for the Hotel (I was able to get a room). So I guess I'll see you all up there tomorrow night.

Zanie
06-17-2010, 11:09 AM
So I'm on a double shift today, which allows me to take tomorrow off. It's been a slow day, so I'm prepping for Saturday at Gingerman.


Check out this NSX at gingerman:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F7dWmQwBeo4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F7dWmQwBeo4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Dang! He passed everybody!
What the heck is going on at 6:20? shouldn't the co-pilot take care of the radio and heater!!??

Bow Tie 67
06-17-2010, 11:14 AM
Dang! He passed everybody!
What the heck is going on at 6:20? shouldn't the co-pilot take care of the radio and heater!!??

Hahaha .......... I doubt you would have let go of the dash last year if that had happened.

Van B
06-17-2010, 05:35 PM
I have to stop reading this thread. I "traded" my wife the Road America weekend for this one. Now my buddy Mark is going with Jeff Schwartz's Vega and I am sitting home.

Here's looking forward to next year. Maybe bring my wife and daughter and they can play at the waterpark.

jeff s
06-17-2010, 06:47 PM
I have a meeting at 9.30am, so I cant leave til about 10. We're driving all 3 cars to the event.

dropit69
06-17-2010, 07:13 PM
well after having about 3 issues with my car im wimping out and trailering it..really dont wanna break down around Gary In by myself..also give me excuss to try out my new trailer..lol

GRNOVA
06-18-2010, 05:20 AM
Dropit just think now you can go balls out and not have to worry about limping it home. Good luck... Wish I was there!

Tucks69
06-18-2010, 05:33 AM
well after having about 3 issues with my car im wimping out and trailering it..really dont wanna break down around Gary In by myself..also give me excuss to try out my new trailer..lol


Wish I was coming up there Darrin! Yall have a good time. Take lots of pictures for us who can't be there.

wiedemab
06-20-2010, 03:48 PM
Wow, what a weekend! My first track event with the Vette was a blast. The car did great! I am still the major limiting factor for its performance.

Randy - Thanks for letting me ride with you. You gave me some great information. It was a lot to take in all at once, but very good nonetheless.

Matt- Thanks for riding with me and giving me pointers. I hate it that you had an issue with your car. It was great to see you again.

Farrington Family - It was great to see you again. I love how much fun you guys have. The '66 looked great and what's not to love about the wagon.

Billy - thanks for the rides in the Subaru on the AutoX.

Everyone I talked to was so encouraging, with me being a newbie. It was great to see everyone. I can't wait to see everyone again

I'm exhausted and ready to crash for the night.

dropit69
06-20-2010, 04:13 PM
been home for a little bit getting crap unpacked..what a great event and turnout..got to do 8 autocross laps..even though im still new at it i had a blast..and dont think my spf50 worked im burnt to a crisp..Thanks to everyone that put this on..great to meet old friends and meet some new ones..

Zanie
06-21-2010, 08:11 AM
What an awesome event!!! Very well organized and super fun.
I’ll be coming back to Motor State # 3 in a vehicle with a roof, so I can really hang it out on the Gingerman Track.

A big thanks to all that put on an excellent event!

Subway
06-21-2010, 08:56 AM
Huge thanks to all the folks at Motor State, Lane Automotive, SCCA, Gingerman, vendors, volunteers and all the competitors for at GREAT weekend! Nice meeting everyone. The ol' Poncho 'vert 'bird made it back to Ohio in one piece. I really had a blast! :) :cool:

I'll try to post some pics and video in the near future.

- Jared

Chevrolaine
06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
If I don't attend this with one of my cars next year...just shoot me. : (

wmhjr
06-21-2010, 10:51 AM
The ol' Poncho 'vert 'bird made it back to Ohio in one piece. I really had a blast! :) :cool:

- Jared

Were you able to track your vert without a cage or bar? Please say it's so!

dropit69
06-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Yeah they allowed vert cars to drive course but were told to kinda keep it under control..and they are talking about making a cutoff limit for the year of car will prolly be 77 or so and older so Laine get that 72 ready..

wmhjr
06-21-2010, 11:19 AM
If it stays that way, I WILL be there next year.

WMCC Doug
06-21-2010, 09:05 PM
I had a blast again for the second year. I want to thank EVERYONE that was involved with making this event happen. Is Lane Automotive a class act, or what!?

Subway
06-22-2010, 09:04 AM
Were you able to track your vert without a cage or bar? Please say it's so!

Yep, they had the 'verts in their own group, we were instructed to keep it 100% under-control... and I think everybody did.

Group included a Cobra, a Shelby Mustang and a Chevelle. I have not heard what the future 'vert rule plans are though.

WMCC Doug
06-22-2010, 06:11 PM
..and they are talking about making a cutoff limit for the year of car will prolly be 77 or so and older ..

I, for one, hope they don't put this year restriction rule into effect for next year (or ever). I loved seeing the new muscle cars compete with the awesome pro-touring classic muscle cars. It's not like the event was overun with newer cars. We are witnessing the muscle car era all over again, lets not shun these new age muscle cars. Everyone can easily coexist. Cool cars are cool cars, no mater the year they were originally built. :idea:

And, besides, some of the vendors, including Lane Automotive, Hotchkis, Detroit Speed, just to name a few, sell parts for the newer iron too, so why alienate some of their clientel?

Bill Howell
06-22-2010, 06:27 PM
Here is the deal with the Year of Car Rule as of right now. Some events are new and need to fill the venue, so pretty much allow any year car. Others, like RTTHs and Motorstate have a couple years under their belt and now have another problem. TOO MANY CARS registering. So, we have to come up with some way to limit the car count, versus adding more days to the event or else, no one will get enough runs in to feel it is worth the effort to come to the event. My thought is have a cut off of 25 or 30 years. At 30 years, next year we would be at 1981. I think we will always have a few newer cars, especially vendor cars at every event for exibition, but to keep it true to our roots, once the venue fills, we have to come up with limits. Don't forget, we are protouring, not camaro5. I am sure there are other events for those cars, but as we grow the protouring scene, we have to look at year limits.

BonzoHansen
06-22-2010, 07:19 PM
"Don't forget, we are protouring, not camaro5." :)

FWIW, I'd love to see an event cut off based on 'generation'. Say any vehicle body/generation in production on or before 1972. So that lets in all C3 Vettes, 2nd gen f bodies, 1st gen monte carlos, etc. It's probably harder to manage than it sounds though.

Chevrolaine
06-22-2010, 07:59 PM
Yeah they allowed vert cars to drive course but were told to kinda keep it under control..and they are talking about making a cutoff limit for the year of car will prolly be 77 or so and older so Laine get that 72 ready..

I hear ya buddy!! Workin on it!!

Charley Lillard
06-22-2010, 09:42 PM
Maybe grandfather in people that were at the first events with newer cars.

perple76
06-23-2010, 06:07 AM
Here is the deal with the Year of Car Rule as of right now. Some events are new and need to fill the venue, so pretty much allow any year car. Others, like RTTHs and Motorstate have a couple years under their belt and now have another problem. TOO MANY CARS registering. So, we have to come up with some way to limit the car count, versus adding more days to the event or else, no one will get enough runs in to feel it is worth the effort to come to the event. My thought is have a cut off of 25 or 30 years. At 30 years, next year we would be at 1981. I think we will always have a few newer cars, especially vendor cars at every event for exibition, but to keep it true to our roots, once the venue fills, we have to come up with limits. Don't forget, we are protouring, not camaro5. I am sure there are other events for those cars, but as we grow the protouring scene, we have to look at year limits.


I think this is a well-reasoned response and agree that some sort of cut-off needs to be implemented. They tried this idea with the Midwest Musclecar Challenge and then backed off of it after their pre-registration numbers fell well below expectations. I think someone said there were 86 cars registered for Motorstate. While I think that's totally awesome, if the numbers get higher than than next year you'll be greatly reducing the on-track time, which defeats the whole purpose of doing this.

In general, I have no qualms about being on track with newer camaros, mustangs, challengers, or even porsches and ferraris, but the plain truth is that I can do that virtually any weekend I want - there are tons of track day events occuring every weekend all across the country that have no year-based requirements - as long as it passes tech you can run. These are great events and I thoroughly enjoy my time there.

These musclecar events, though, are special. There is something very unique about that many vintage cars gathering in one place, at one time, and hanging it out on the track. I have been to several track events and at least three of these musclecar based events, and leave no doubt the musclecar events have an entirely different feel to them. Spectator turnout is much, much better too. People in general get a kick out of seeing these "old" cars strut their stuff.

I DO NOT like the 1972 cutoff. There are too many really nice cars out there that are post 72 to use such an early year break. Don't make the same mistake Goodguys did - you would be cutting out way too many good pro-touring rides. What would you do with all those 1973 Camaros out there?

Please, please, please don't forget the newbies, the beginners, and the guys who have never done anything like this before. When you start dealing in cut-offs, and year breaks, and complicated technical rules and requirements, you can quickly discourage some young kid (or even an old guy) who is wanting to try this but is apprehensive about diving in with both feet. We (being the whole pro-touring community) should be leary of passing any type of rule that might discourage a new guy from giving this a shot. We all benefit by giving those new guys a chance at roadcourse (or autocross) glory.

Personally, I think thirty years is a good place to start, which as Bill noted would be 1981 starting with next year's events. If you stick with thirty years, with each passing year you include a new year's generation worth of cars, so those guys that are close to the line might only have to wait a year or two before they can put their cars in the event. Gives you something to build for, something to look forward to.

Another idea would be to split the event in half and have one group run Autocross Saturday, and Roadcourse on Sunday, while having a second group do the opposite. Each group would simply swap locations between Sat. and Sunday. While this would be a logistical nightmare, if support for the event continues to grow it is an option that would give everyone an equal opportunity at track time in both aspects of the event. If this idea were used, I think the only fair way to do it would be to group people randomly - in other words don't put all the heavy hitters in one group and all the rest of us in another. Mix it up so you have a good mix of competitive cars at both locations, both days. I think that would be better for both the spectators and the participants. A more diverse playing field, so to speak.

I would love to say don't change a thing, because it's such a wonderful event, but I think the reality is that the numbers are likely to go up next year, not down. If the numbers continue to climb eventually you'll reach a critical mass where people will stop coming because there isn't enough track time to justify the expense and effort required to prep the car, haul it to the event, pay for hotels, food, gas, etc. Track time is what keeps people coming back, without it this would be just another car show.

Anyway those are my thoughts. Had a great time and hope to come back next year.

J

Zanie
06-23-2010, 07:27 AM
I think Bill’s 1981 cutoff is an excellent idea.
It does everything the 72 generation cut-off does: That brings in all your 2nd gen camaros, and c3 vettes.
But, It will also let in all the guys with the 78-81 G bodies (Rubes needs to finish one of his Malibu wagons).
Plus maybe we’d see some oddities: a 1975 Dodge Magnum, a 1979 Pinto. 1977 Monza, etc.

I agree, it is super cool seeing old musclecars blasting around the track. Watching newer cars blast round doesn’t do much for me.

What a great event, I can’t wait for next year!

wiedemab
06-23-2010, 08:25 AM
I was one of the guys running a "new" car - C5 Vette at the event. I completely understand the logic of putting a cutoff for year or however it is done.

Some serious up front thought needs to be put into what that cutoff is going to be and then stick with it. What would be frustrating to me is.............. let's just play out an example.

At this point in my life I can't afford to build a '69 Camaro or whatever. So lets say '81 is the cutoff and I sell my C5 and I build a '79 Fox body Fairmont or Malibu track car or whatever. Then the next year way too many '81 and older cars sign up and they move it back to '76. Or the opposite, the numbers are down and they let newer cars run again. I'm sure you get the idea.

Just my $.02, so take it for what it's worth.

protouring70
06-23-2010, 08:51 AM
I knew this would be coming, but as we grow this is to be expected. So lets put alot of thought into this and make the right decision!!!! And I am 100% sure Bill has been looking at this with everyone in mind!!! He wants everyone to enjoy all of the events!!!!


"We are a family, just a really big family!!!"

WMCC Doug
06-26-2010, 04:20 PM
I was one of the guys running a "new" car - C5 Vette at the event. I completely understand the logic of putting a cutoff for year or however it is done.

Some serious up front thought needs to be put into what that cutoff is going to be and then stick with it. What would be frustrating to me is.............. let's just play out an example.

At this point in my life I can't afford to build a '69 Camaro or whatever. So lets say '81 is the cutoff and I sell my C5 and I build a '79 Fox body Fairmont or Malibu track car or whatever. Then the next year way too many '81 and older cars sign up and they move it back to '76. Or the opposite, the numbers are down and they let newer cars run again. I'm sure you get the idea.

Just my $.02, so take it for what it's worth.

I agree. Several good points there. I would hate to see this event put in a Year cut-off rule. Yes, I'm one of the ones running a late model car too, (2002 Camaro, basically stock) so I guess that effects how I feel about it. I've attended (supported the event) both last year and this year, and would be disappointed to be left out in the future.

By next year, my '74 Z28 should be track ready, so I could still make it in, depending on the year cut-off. It's a nice car with some nice suspension upgrades, but dropping an LSX engine in it is just not in the budget, so with the old style, mildly modified (very streetable) 350 under the hood, my 2002 Camaro will probably still be faster. I had one person running up on my butt, and passing in no-passing zones, this year. I can only imagine how bad that could be with an even slower car.

I for one, love to see the modified old muscle cars run with the newer cars. It's nice to see the direct comparison. I guess I just like cars, from all time periods.

Maybe the cut-off needs to be a number, not a year? Once the 100 car registration point is reached, the event is closed. That way the most dedicated enthusiasts that register first, get in, and the procrastinators are left out?

Maybe the Friday and Saturday track days is the answer? You could accomodate more cars, not restrict the years, and get the same amount of track time when you combine both days?

I guess there's no clear answer that will make everyone happy. I know I had a great time, both this year and last year, even if my car was not as fast as most others.

Maybe Charlie's idea about "grandfathering in" newer cars that have already participated in this event is a viable option, as well?

Danny Thomas
06-28-2010, 05:33 AM
This is a hard decision and Bill and I have discussed this. He and others are trying to protect our hobby as it grows and new problems arise. As I like a number cut off the best the year cut off also makes sense. My car will never be a top 10 car but I love the track time and friends we make. Whatever happens everyone wont be happy. We adjust and move on. I think all involve want to insure that all those that get to go get their monies worth. Mid State was a little pricey but with everything I got, it was so well worth it. Motor State was very reasonable for all that we received and again so well worth it. Scott what an awesome job yall did. . Lets all be supportive at whatever decisions sre made.

Steve Chryssos
06-30-2010, 03:10 AM
No problem. I've been doing a little math and we're crunching a plan to accommodate 120 cars at next years Motor State Challenge.

New and Old.

Remember that the new cars make pro-touring cars look good. The mid engined, two turbo Ultima finished 3rd overall on the road course behind a coupla Camaros. The highest finishing production new car was Billy Utley's WRX in 7th overall on the road course. The highest placing vette was well into the double digits.

No new cars? No data.

Run Thru The Hills has a serious space problem, but with the SCCA's help, can spread out pretty good at the Motor State Challenge.

Danny Thomas
06-30-2010, 06:08 AM
No problem. I've been doing a little math and we're crunching a plan to accommodate 120 cars at next years Motor State Challenge.

New and Old.

Remember that the new cars make pro-touring cars look good. The mid engined, two turbo Ultima finished 3rd overall on the road course behind a coupla Camaros. The highest finishing production new car was Billy Utley's WRX in 7th overall on the road course. The highest placing vette was well into the double digits.

No new cars? No data.

Run Thru The Hills has a serious space problem, but with the SCCA's help, can spread out pretty good at the Motor State Challenge.

I agree with the data support, but do not see where RTTH has a serious problem. Seems that Bill has a produced a very successful event otherwise it would not continue to grow. This hobby just has growing pains as we continue to grow. Its our one weekend to be some race driver that we never became. the hobby itself has evolved and adjustments have to be made to make the event successful, safe and competitive. There has to be certain standards and rules that carry over from each event otherwise we loose attendees because they can't afford to buy items, ie. tires to run with someone on a stickier tire than the 300's they have on their car now nor buy extra high dollar rims to put them on.

This is an event that is to cater to the backyard guy and not the guys who have money to spend for a professional build, even though they are also welcome and support needed. The event gets very expensive to attend, with travel, food, lodging and entrance fee. So we expect you guys to make the rules and adjustments that keeps this hobby affordable and fun.

I am sure that all the powers to be will work to make the right decisions and make adjustments as need be.I'm sure that this fourum will be used to get the general concenus and help with the decision making. So I encourage that all speak your minds so they will have some input. Steve you nor Bill have all the answers, but you both have a passion for it and are working to help it continue to be bigger and better. I am also sure that everyone won't be happy at whatever comes down, but you adjust and move on. I'm glad I'm not a powers to be...lol

796spdbu
06-30-2010, 06:23 AM
Very Well Put,Danny!!

Steve Chryssos
06-30-2010, 10:39 AM
I will clarify:
Run Thru The Hills cannot fit more cars. Turnout is at maximum capacity. That's straight from Bill's 2010 thread here (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69824). So it makes sense to limit the year of manufacture for cars at Pigeon Forge.

At the Motor State Challenge, we can make some changes that will accommodate a bunch more cars, so limiting year of manufacture is a bad idea.

Limiting year of manufacture is a serious decision if your name is Motor State Distributing. They probably sell more air intake kits for late model cars than the total gross sales for the entire pro touring industry combined.

The same holds true for many of our sponsors like Hotchkis and Baer. These companies are serious about selling parts for late model cars as well as old cars. Ridetech, for example, showed up at the MSC with a sinister black 2010 Mustang.

That means rules for one event might vary from rules for another event.

tazzz25906112
06-30-2010, 05:49 PM
Steve you bring a fresh view point and ideas to the table and I'm sure with the leadership Bill has brought to the whole pro-touring events as it's oldest contiguous event (RTTH's),,,, we will be better off with what ever is decided after conversations have been reviewed...

Bill has consistently shown leadership and I personally look upon him as the "Pro-touring event elder" so to speak..... I believe he has a very good ear and his heart is certainly been proven to be in the right place time and again for the majorities interest....

The continued involvement of team players like you Steve is a tremendous asset to all of us that enjoy the Pro-touring events. We're all appreciative of people that help grow the sport we so love by engaging conversation and offering fresh thoughts for considerations,,,, thanks bud.

Bill Howell
06-30-2010, 06:10 PM
Steve is right guys. My Year Rule is about RTTHS only for now. We have so many people coming and no way to grow the event so we have to limit space and the best way to do that as I see it is a year cut off. Now, if I don't fill the venue, I will accept cars, in order that have posted in the RTTHs thread that don't meet the year cut off. Hopefully everyone will get to come that wants to, but I have to make sure all the musclecar era cars that want to come get to. Remember, this eliminates one of my own cars, so I certainly am not picking on anyone.

Steve Chryssos
07-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Steve you bring a fresh view point and ideas to the table and I'm sure with the leadership Bill has brought to the whole pro-touring events as it's oldest contiguous event (RTTH's),,,, we will be better off with what ever is decided after conversations have been reviewed...

Bill has consistently shown leadership and I personally look upon him as the "Pro-touring event elder" so to speak..... I believe he has a very good ear and his heart is certainly been proven to be in the right place time and again for the majorities interest....

The continued involvement of team players like you Steve is a tremendous asset to all of us that enjoy the Pro-touring events. We're all appreciative of people that help grow the sport we so love by engaging conversation and offering fresh thoughts for considerations,,,, thanks bud.

Does this mean I can't be part of the rrrrrrrrRRRRRat Pack? Bud?

tazzz25906112
07-01-2010, 06:35 PM
Hell no all it takes is a simple 2,000 miles to join the rrrrrRRRat Pack, just ask anyone that drove the distance so far.

WMCC Doug
07-02-2010, 10:23 PM
At the Motor State Challenge, we can make some changes that will accommodate a bunch more cars, so limiting year of manufacture is a bad idea.

Limiting year of manufacture is a serious decision if your name is Motor State Distributing. They probably sell more air intake kits for late model cars than the total gross sales for the entire pro touring industry combined.

The same holds true for many of our sponsors like Hotchkis and Baer. These companies are serious about selling parts for late model cars as well as old cars. Ridetech, for example, showed up at the MSC with a sinister black 2010 Mustang.

That means rules for one event might vary from rules for another event.

Thanks, Steve. That's exactly the point I was trying to get across in post # 146.

I'm happy there's at least some ideas to keep the Motorstate Challenge open to all year cars (at least for now). I love the mix, mostly old muscle cars with a few new cars thrown in for comparison. (Whether I bring my old car next year, or stick with the newer one.)