global west vs. sc&c

[ROEINONDUBS]

So I want to see which is the best for my buck? Or maybe another brand that you feel is a good upper control arm.

[Jarcaines]

I have heard a ton of good things about SC&C from people on this board, I think that is the direction I will be going when the time comes.

[ROEINONDUBS]

I have heard good things as well but to me they look like something I can make from homedepots hardwear
section. Also I wonder how often I would need to tighten them

[Apogee]

You can't beat SC&C's service IMHO...and while the SPC uppers may be too "industrial" for your taste, their quality, fit and finish is excellent in my experience. We have them on our Nova and chose them based on our performance requirements, budget, and Mark's excellent customer service. I personally like the look of them over the more conventional tubular uppers, but I tend towards being a function over form guy when forced to choose. If you need to bling them up a little bit, you can always run the aluminum pro-lite links.

Nothing wrong with GW, but is there a reason you're not considering SpeedTech, DSE, Hotchkis, etc?

Tobin
KORE3

[nicks67camaro]

I have heard good things as well but to me they look like something I can make from homedepots hardwear
section. Also I wonder how often I would need to tighten them

SC&C and here is why.....
1.The Arms have screw in style balljoints that can accomodate either factory or tall balljoints
2. The adjustablity of the arms
3. Mark's service...like many vendors here he will spend the time with you and it not be a "sales pitch" Hell I've BS with him on stuff other than my project while getting tech support from him.

As for "HomeDepot Hardware" thats way off. The arms are high quality, strong, and when properly torqued and jam nuts set are reliable. I have over 5000 miles of street use and not a single issue.

[ROEINONDUBS]

Tobin thanks once again for the good advice, nick thanks also for the great info its exactly what I was looking for.
As far as the homedepot comment goes I was referring to the simplistic look of design not quality. Just so everyone knows

[Jarcaines]

Plus, no shims with the adjustable arms.

What I hope to do when I have the money is the SC&C package with the AFX spindle and then some C4/5 brakes from Tobin.

[nicks67camaro]

Tobin thanks once again for the good advice, nick thanks also for the great info its exactly what I was looking for.
As far as the homedepot comment goes I was referring to the simplistic look of design not quality. Just so everyone knows

Yeah they do look simple, but they are effective. On a side note if you like doing things yourself these arms make alignments easy. I purchased a fast trax through Mark and it works great.

[Bryce]

i will add to this from a design stand point. i built my own UCA/LCA. In my design I use left/right hand threaded tubes for all the links, this allows me to adjust the arms in every aspect. As much caster camber i want.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/tn_full_42609_0182jpg_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/455696)

i can use screw in ball joints. So my vote goes to SC&C. i agree on his design.

[ROEINONDUBS]

No shims A+
Home alignment sounds great for them track days

[John Wright]

I agree with Tobin.....nice arm for the money. Nothing wrong with the others mentioned, they just cost a bit more.

I like the adjustability in these arms, and if you run out of adjustment, they have the adjustable sleeves in different lengths so you can't go wrong.

+1000 on the good customer service, great guy to speak with on the phone, and has tons of knowledge about his products.

[jackfrost]

I have Global West upper arms and they are very nice, quality pieces. I love the Del-A-lum bushings.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. it'll probably come down to personal taste.

[jknight16]

Plus, no shims with the adjustable arms.

What I hope to do when I have the money is the SC&C package with the AFX spindle and then some C4/5 brakes from Tobin.

I can tell you that this exact combination works very well. Mine handles extremely well (far better than I've even come close to testing on the street) and stops quickly and with confidence. Just what a "new" old car should do.

[Tony_SS]

I like my SC&C stage I. Great adjustablity, no shims. And Mark's service is invaluable IMO.

[Lowend]

I would say that the better suspension depends on your goals.

If this is a 100% street car, than Global West could be a better choice.
1) The non-adjustability of the arms can be a good thing if you are just going to set the alignment once and forget about it.
2) The arms are prettier
3) The Del-a-lum bushing has the potential to last longer than the solids in the SC&C

SC&C's customer service really can't be beat - but I do consider their a-arms (which I ran and reccomended to another of my Auto-x buddy's) to be more on the race than street side of things

[Jarcaines]

I can tell you that this exact combination works very well. Mine handles extremely well (far better than I've even come close to testing on the street) and stops quickly and with confidence. Just what a "new" old car should do.

Good to hear! Do you happen to have a build thread up?

[ROEINONDUBS]

Good to hear! Do you happen to have a build thread up?

Ya but its kinda not good haha just check my stats

[6'9"Witha69]

One idea from Andrew using the SPC uppers is to set the alignment to 'street' settings. Then use shims to make a 'track' setting and document the shim requirements. Track day adjustments are minutes away and getting back to street is as simple as pulling out the shims.

[Tony_SS]

One idea from Andrew using the SPC uppers is to set the alignment to 'street' settings. Then use shims to make a 'track' setting and document the shim requirements. Track day adjustments are minutes away and getting back to street is as simple as pulling out the shims.

Not sure how that could be engineered but a toggle switch to change between the two settings would be awesome!

[6'9"Witha69]

I am sure Q built that into a few of 007s Astin Martins!

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure how that could be engineered but a toggle switch to change between the two settings would be awesome!
Swapping shims in and out is almost that simple unless you're making a really large camber change (in which case you'll need to do something about the toe change). And it's about as repeatable as adjustable things can possibly get.

For three seasons that's exactly what I did in paddock at each autocross with OE uppers. Drove up to the lot on the street settings, added shims in the morning to get the race specs, took my runs, pulled the "extra" shims out and put them away (individually by location) before going home. Under five minutes per side each way, including the time spent with a little floor jack to make tipping the wheels in/out at the top easier.


Norm

[ROEINONDUBS]

Swapping shims in and out is almost that simple unless you're making a really large camber change (in which case you'll need to do something about the toe change). And it's about as repeatable as adjustable things can possibly get.

For three seasons that's exactly what I did in paddock at each autocross with OE uppers. Drove up to the lot on the street settings, added shims in the morning to get the race specs, took my runs, pulled the "extra" shims out and put them away (individually by location) before going home. Under five minutes per side each way, including the time spent with a little floor jack to make tipping the wheels in/out at the top easier.


Norm

That's a really good idea are the shims slotted on the bottom so u can just loosen the bolt and pull them out?

[Norm Peterson]

Yes. Both the shims that alignment shops use and some "one-off" thicker ones that I fabbed up myself are all "U"-shaped for that very reason. Even body shims are, and those can be used as well.


Norm

[ROEINONDUBS]

Nice

[JRouche]

I also have the SPC adjustable arms with shims too. For me it was about getting the most adjustable suspension I could. With the adjustable arms I can dial in the caster. I mounted my upper arm's mounting plate on the K-member to get a decent static caster and then I can creep up to my final caster setting and play with it with the adjustable tube.

I use the shims to get my camber settings correct while still keeping the arm length the same so Im not changing the camber gain at the same time, or as much as I would be by changing the arm lengths. I set up the arm length for a camber gain that works for me.

As for the quality of the SPC arm, they are pretty solid. The ball joint supplied are also solid looking pieces.

I bought my stuff from SCC. It wasnt their stage kit because I needed a lil more of a custom setup but Mark still killed everyone else on the cost. Thanks Mark.... Nuther satisfied customer... JR

[Pro-Tour Heavy Chevy]

Global West has nice looking arms that could stand an atomic blast and there Del-alum bushings are nice. The SC and C uppers can't be beat for adjust-ability that the GW don't have. Don't let there looks fool you there stout and Marks Service is the best. I run SC and C uppers(stageII kit) with GW lowers. The SC and C Stage II kit was the Single biggest improvement to the handling of my car.

[kball]

I bought the stgII sc&c kit in 06 and it's a sweet seup. Price is right and I called Mark 3 months ago and he was totally helpful. I ended up ordering the new pro touring sway bar for the rear from him as well. Still haven't installed it yet though. Regardless of if you think you're gonna ever adjust it once it's set, you at least have the option to play around if you decide to and it's easy to set it back if need be.

I think the support you get is worth as much as the parts you buy.

[DoABarrelRoll]

Just for thread clarification:

SC&C is an awesome shop

SPC makes the adjustable a-arms we are incorrectly attributing to SC&C

So the thread should read:

SPC VS. Global West

[Tony_SS]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

[JRouche]

Just for thread clarification:

SC&C is an awesome shop

SPC makes the adjustable a-arms we are incorrectly attributing to SC&C

So the thread should read:

SPC VS. Global West

Yer right, the SCC arm are made by SPC. But I think anyone that went to SCCs site to look at the stage kits already knows that. They say it right in the description. I for one thought it was pretty obvious but yer right, someone that might not be too familiar might think SCC arms? Didnt know they made arms. And kinda they other way around too. Some folks might not be familiar with SPC but know of SCC and their great service and quality products they distribute.

And you say "WE" are incorrectly attributing. Dont think so. I for one, and Im sure many of the folks know who makes the arms. I think the thread header is just fine.

But thanks for the clarification for anyone that didnt go to the SCC site to see what they have to offer. JR

[JRouche]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

I dont know that he tweaks the arms. That may be a misleading statement for some. He doesnt do any mechanical work on the arms, that I know of, I may be wrong. He does combine parts from the SPC catalog to give you a custom arm if thats what you need.

Thats the route I went. Go to the SPC site and download the catalog, its all alacarte if you need that. They also set up arms for certain cars. So I went and got all the part numbers I needed and talked with Mark at SCC and we came up with a pair of arms. I knew what I needed, did alot of research. Mark killed the cost though from any dealer.

And really, I dont even know if he touched my arms, I think it was drop shipped like so many other parts I get. Im sure he stocks their parts, thats the only way you can get a killer dealer pricing scheme.. The more you buy and move the better pricing you get. And really its a crazy amount of money you have to spend with some manufactures as a dealer to get the preferred pricing. JR

[ROEINONDUBS]

Thanks everyone I will be goin with sc&c stage1 oh and I know that sc&c is the vendor which is what I wanted to compare

[BonzoHansen]

Right but AFAIK Marcus tweaks the SPC arms in many ways. They are not off the shelf parts. Lots of options to be had.

In what ways?


2) The arms are prettier


I contest the pretty comment.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0902-1.jpg

[Tony_SS]

Ok maybe I was wrong.. I got the impression he put together the SPC arms for the g-body using their parts. My bad..

x2 on the pretty.

tubular is tubular.. and the shims. and the weight. blah.

[6spdmalibu]

From what I understand, doesn't changing the length of the arms rather than shims change the camber gain and caster on each side. Meaning that each side has a different caster gain due to different lengths. From the sounds of it, the sc&c arms could be used for custom applications (wheel size, offset, etc) and still use shims to keep both arms the same length. Personally am using GW arms as I've bought them back in 93 and still are working well. Same for the Del a lum bushings. Guess it ultimately comes down to preference and funds.

[b-man]

Another advantage of the SPC adjustable upper arms from SC&C is more wheel clearance when you're running wide wheels with deep backspacing.

I'm running 18X9" wheels with 5-1/2" of backpacing on the front of my '64 Pontiac Tempest, with the wheels turned to full steering lock the curved rear tube on my Hotchkis upper arms rubbed the inside of the rim.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/DSC02933-1.jpg

The SPC adjustable arms provided the wheel clearance I needed, among their other advantages.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/DSC02952-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Before I make the following statement, I want to make it clear that I do not consider myself to have super duper driving abilities. I think my driving abilities are decent enough to comment...

Now for comparison sake, in my personal opinion, I haven't noticed a considerable difference in the handling & ride quality between the SPC/AFX suspension and the Global West Negative Roll suspension on my two cars. I've driven them back to back and on similar autocross courses and to me, they feel about the same. There is one difference I will note, the SPC/AFX components have a smaller turning radius and maybe a little quicker steering action than the Global West stuff. Other than that, handling wise, they're about the same.

So, if you're in the market for a new A-body suspension and aren't sure which is the better way to go, I think the main factors you should consider are:


How much adjustability do you need
Steering radius
Cost

[Norm Peterson]

From what I understand, doesn't changing the length of the arms rather than shims change the camber gain and caster on each side. Meaning that each side has a different caster gain due to different lengths. From the sounds of it, the sc&c arms could be used for custom applications (wheel size, offset, etc) and still use shims to keep both arms the same length. Personally am using GW arms as I've bought them back in 93 and still are working well. Same for the Del a lum bushings. Guess it ultimately comes down to preference and funds.
Unless you create relatively a large difference in the lengths, I don't think it'll matter much for anything short of competition that's timed to 0.001 second, and even then you'd need to be able to drive consistent lines and times. Whether a slight UCA length asymmetry might help cover for some other chassis asymmetry or exaggerate its effect is a whole other question.

No reason you couldn't intentionally use a combination of shimming and arm length tweaking as one means of keeping the arm lengths/shapes from becoming too much different from each other.


Norm

[LS1NOVA]

I had heard that SC&C had SPC make a special ball joint plate for his packages to allow more clearance than the regular SPC arms? Anyone confirm? Maybe Marcus will chime in.

[jilge71]

i bought everything from sc&c on my suspension and he helped me set everything up to run together. awsome guy and full of great info

[BRIAN]

I am sure Marcus will chime in but as per SPC SC&C part numbers are different for 1st gen then regular SPC arms. I had a set and the part numbers were not as indicated in catalog and SPC said they were SC&C only. I did notice that there were some changes from an earlier set I had bought years ago. The mtg arms from the crossbar to arms is now bent.


If you are looking to bolt them on and forget them go Global, DSE, or the many others. If you want adjustability go with SC&C. Actually SC&C are the only set up that allows you to make the adjustments that you want with added header clearance.

[Lowend]

I have also heard that Mark customizes the a-arms.

[JRouche]

I am sure Marcus will chime in but as per SPC SC&C part numbers are different for 1st gen then regular SPC arms. I had a set and the part numbers were not as indicated in catalog and SPC said they were SC&C only.

Hi Brian. A dealer commonly places his own part numbers on the parts he is distributing. It makes good for his own internal paperwork. All distributors do it. Go to summit, jegs, or whoever. They all sell SPC arms and arm components. They apply their own numbers for the exact same part. You can buy anything from the SPC catalog from summit.

But lemme tell you, you wont get nearly the price break and customer service that you will get from SCC.. Really, give Mark a call one day at SCC.. LOL I loved it. The dude is a car guy just like me.. And he really knows something about suspension geometry, but wont speak engineer talk to you. He will talk with you and come up with some decent ideas. And Mark can deal in anything in the SPC catalog. The folks at summit may not be all that savy, they have a huge line of products to deal with. Oh yeah, call SPC too, great folks!! I was on the horn with them also. They know their products, even the first level phone folks, surprising in this day and age. JR

[RYU]

if you're considering the SPC UCAs I highly recommend the alum links. The standard round links makes it difficult to adjust by hand. I found my hand slipping and wished I could adjust it with a crescent wrench as would have been possible with the alum links.

wish i could return and switch mine!

[JRouche]

Unless you create relatively a large difference in the lengths, I don't think it'll matter much for anything short of competition that's timed to 0.001 second, and even then you'd need to be able to drive consistent lines and times. Whether a slight UCA length asymmetry might help cover for some other chassis asymmetry or exaggerate its effect is a whole other question.

No reason you couldn't intentionally use a combination of shimming and arm length tweaking as one means of keeping the arm lengths/shapes from becoming too much different from each other.


Norm

Umm.. Read my post before. I use a combo of shims and adjustable arms. And arm length DOES change the camber curve dramatically, even small changes. And I didnt even go into bump steer and roll center changes. Just camber gain changes. A small amount of arm length does have a large effect on camber gain and roll center position.

I had the luxury to be able to try many, oh so many combos of shims and arm lengths. I have air bags. So I could run my arms all through the motions. I set it up with the wheels degreed in movement and measured the changes in camber and caster with varying arm lengths and shims. I wrote down every combo.

And I just ran through all types of changes.. After about four pages of numbers I came up with a decent setting for me. And I learned alot. I saw the effects of camber and caster. How alot of caster actually gives you some major camber in a turn. Saw the link between the two adjustments.

So after mapping out ALL the camber and caster changes that I could possibly do. Thats with changing arm lengths, un-equal arm lengths, shims, un-equal shim packs and every possible combination I mapped out a profile on paper. Its actually kinda cool. I can look at all the settings I made, see what adjustments I made and documented so I can go back, and see where the perfect combination of shims and arm length is.. I LOVE IT!!!! Its all down on paper. So I can dial in that combo at any time.

And this is just for my car,wont work with any other cars. But I have my map. And now I have the numbers. If I want a certain amount of camber gain, Ill just dial it in. If the caster is too much but I dont want to mess with the camber gain I have that number too. Change a shim here, adjust a arm there, DONE..

And Im always setting the static camber at around .5 degrees. Toe at almost straight up, just a lil in, maybe a 1/16". I always kept those two numbers the same. They had to stay there IMO.

And it all depends on what car we are talking about. But the change in arm length is still just as dramatic on all the cars. For the most part we cant set our upper arms, the frame attaching point low enough. Show me a production car that it is too low and Ill be happy, plenty of room for improvement. But usually they are too high, sometimes WAY too high. Ideally you want to be in the 3 O-clock position when the lowers are also at 3. But crazy as it sounds some production cars have the upper arms at below 3. So as the upper arm is coming up on bump its actually pushing the top of the spindle OUT. Bad camber change. Where on bump it should be be pulling the top of the spindle in (camber gain). Then if its really bad it transitions over past 3 O-clock, and abruptly goes from pushing the spindle top to pulling it in. WHOA is the feeling you normally feel. All of a sudden in the turn, specially if its got some bumps, the tire grabs cause it gets more contact patch and it pulls in.

Most drivers can handle the sub 3 O-clock (4 to 3) movement. But if you have a car that transitions over that point it makes for a grabby ride. It goes from pushing the upper over to pulling it in. Weak contact patch on the tire to all of a sudden grabbing because the tire lays down and gets a full contact patch. And when the transition is too fast because of a short arm it gets hairy. The outside tire grabs fast and causes some dramatic oversteer when you may not want it when you were fast in a corner in plow mode (understeer). Thats when the rear comes around and says I wanna be in front...

So the better approach is to stay at just above 3 O-clock at ride height. Then in the turns its always pulling the top of the spindle in, camber gain.


I dont know. I may be taking it too far for the average guy that wants to drive his car. And thats all I want from my car, just drive it. I wont race it, never will. Im retired so I have to spend my time f-in around with something. My car and shop is my retirement present. I love it all.

And yeah, I may have some OCD issues LOL Not nearly as bad as some of the guys that want nuthing but aircraft fasteners in their cars though. Now those guys are really OCD :) Kidding bolt fanatics :) JR

[Marcus SC&C]

Hey guys, sorry I`m late to the party! For a little clarification, SPC makes SPC arms, but we have them assemble many arm configurations for our packages that are not otherwise cataloged. Probably 75% of the arms we sell fall into this catagory. The bottom line is that once we change improve the geometry of the front end we almost always have to reconfigure the arms length, offset and even ball joint plate mounting angle for proper fit and function. One of things we like about these adj. arms is that while any change in alignment, arm offset via shims or change in arm length naturally changes the camber curves etc., changing the length of the arms makes less of a change than shimming the same amount. Using a shim on a fixed arm moves all 3 of an arms pickup points to new locations, adj. arms move only a single point (the ball joint) so it`s easy to see what there is less disturbance to the camber curves, RC location etc. Since very few of these cars are exactly bilaterally symetrical that lets us achieve very minimal variation side to side. It`s also cool that we can make use of both the adj. arms AND shims for various purposes. For example setting the performance street alignment with the arms and the auto X alignment with the shims. That makes it a 5 minute deal to go from street to race settings at the track and you don`t even have to get under the car. :) Mark SC&C

[John Wright]

if you're considering the SPC UCAs I highly recommend the alum links. The standard round links makes it difficult to adjust by hand. I found my hand slipping and wished I could adjust it with a crescent wrench as would have been possible with the alum links.

wish i could return and switch mine!
I added some weight to the arm, but mine is now adjustable by wrench.....LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/MVC004F-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/MVC003F-1.jpg

[ROEINONDUBS]

Hey guys, sorry I`m late to the party! For a little clarification, SPC makes SPC arms, but we have them assemble many arm configurations for our packages that are not otherwise cataloged. Probably 75% of the arms we sell fall into this catagory. The bottom line is that once we change improve the geometry of the front end we almost always have to reconfigure the arms length, offset and even ball joint plate mounting angle for proper fit and function. One of things we like about these adj. arms is that while any change in alignment, arm offset via shims or change in arm length naturally changes the camber curves etc., changing the length of the arms makes less of a change than shimming the same amount. Using a shim on a fixed arm moves all 3 of an arms pickup points to new locations, adj. arms move only a single point (the ball joint) so it`s easy to see what there is less disturbance to the camber curves, RC location etc. Since very few of these cars are exactly bilaterally symetrical that lets us achieve very minimal variation side to side. It`s also cool that we can make use of both the adj. arms AND shims for various purposes. For example setting the performance street alignment with the arms and the auto X alignment with the shims. That makes it a 5 minute deal to go from street to race settings at the track and you don`t even have to get under the car. :) Mark SC&C
Thanks for all the good info. I will be getting the stage 2 kit which I think will pair nice
With my i-roc steering box
:smoke:

[Norm Peterson]

Umm.. Read my post before. I use a combo of shims and adjustable arms. And arm length DOES change the camber curve dramatically, even small changes. And I didnt even go into bump steer and roll center changes. Just camber gain changes. A small amount of arm length does have a large effect on camber gain and roll center position.
Let's start by agreeing on some definition of "small changes".

I suspect that if you shorten the UCAs by half an inch without relocating the chassis-side pivot outward by a similar amount (so as to essentially retain the static camber setting) that things will change more significantly than if you're working with ±1/8" here and ±1° there. But that wouldn't be relevant to a daily-driveable set of alignment specs (1/2" inward relocation of the UBJ ==> more than a -3° change in static camber).

I can throw all this stuff at a spreadsheet that plots camber and camber gain curves as well as a few other things.


Norm

[JRouche]

Let's start by agreeing on some definition of "small changes".

I suspect that if you shorten the UCAs by half an inch without relocating the chassis-side pivot outward by a similar amount (so as to essentially retain the static camber setting) that things will change more significantly than if you're working with ±1/8" here and ±1° there. But that wouldn't be relevant to a daily-driveable set of alignment specs (1/2" inward relocation of the UBJ ==> more than a -3° change in static camber).

I can throw all this stuff at a spreadsheet that plots camber and camber gain curves as well as a few other things.


Norm

Ok, first off, we will agree, no doubt. Ill agree with you in a second. I have nuthing but respect Norm.

I was just trying to show what I noticed, on my car. I have the springs removed and all the other components installed and aligned, steering and all. I was just playing around, trying to get a grasp on how the system worked together. And it was nice to have the springs out and some time.

So I mapped out a degree pattern on the floor. I have turn plates but I was working with the wheel up. And THATS the main issue why my setup isint correct. I may talk about that later.

So anyway. I ran through all the combos. Short arms, thick spacers. In between, semi thick spacers, longer arms. I did this through no spacers and the longest arm I could get from the SPC arms. To max spacers and the arms as short as they will go. In 1/16th inch increments. I ran the suspension through its entire travel with all the combos. Documenting all the numbers the entire time, with every change.

And that was straight up with both arms equal and using the vertical plate for caster which gives me about 2 degrees of caster with the arms equal. I also did it with varying amounts of arm offsets to change the caster.

I was always looking for an 1/8" on toe in and a 1/2 degree on static camber. I wanted to keep those two numbers constant no matter what.

So being its a system you change one thing you have to go back and check and prolly change the other settings. Toe and camber. Like I said, I had some time.

I chased the numbers all around the place. What I was shooting for was a degree of camber change for each inch of wheel travel.
I thought I wanted the max amount of caster. Just about 6 degrees for my car. Well, Im re-thinking that now. I wasnt shooting for 6*. I was looking at 5.5* But after thinking about that number it might be too heavy on the steering for me. Im throttling back to 3* of caster.

A good amount of caster can work with you and kill you at the same time. You will get some additional camber gain with more caster. And it will work out some bumpsteer issues. It almost sounds like a fixall. But when they say heavy steering they mean it. It will be like a truck without power steering. It will snap back and be not much fun to drive on the streets. Highway speeds!!! Yer gonna be using the steering wheel more than you might like to. Great for the track. But for the street car it will be a fight.

So I backed off the caster to a reasonable amount. Was still able to get the camber gain to a decent number. It trails off as the compression cycle goes up. Starts out at close to 1* for an inch of travel. Then to .81* for the next inch then to .80* for the next inch. Till it bottoms and goes to .75*.

And I only checked it for compression, the loaded outside tire, the one thats gonna take all the abuse on a turn. The inside tire?? Well?? She is gonna be treated like a red headed step child, she gets to go for the ride but doesnt get much say so for the trip. LOL

I have pages upon pages mapping out all the configurations from arm length and spacers. I like it so now I can go back and look at all the numbers and get the exact setup that looks good. Ill be able to dial in what looked good during the playing around.

Idealy Id love to be able to sink the upper arm frame mounts an inch or more down. And the frame has the room, and the arms would clear. But that would mean removing the engine and I really need to stop working on this pig and just drive it. So thats not gonna happen.. Maybe the next project car :)

JR

[6spdmalibu]

Do you also check how much camber gain you get in proportion to the wheels being turned also? Doesn't caster add some camber proportionate to the amount the wheels are turned? And depending on the car and weight distribution. The amount of anti-dive changes the caster from static to variable during bump/rebound?
Most of the information that is on race cars says that the anti-dive be as minimal to keep the caster as constant if possible. That is mostly do to their low center of gravity though. But most OEM cars have fixed control arm locations that limit messing with the anti- dive. And since most have lowered, altered weight distribution and so on on their respective vehicles. Would this not need be thought about especially for a performance based application?

[streetrod77]

This thread is very interesting, I was just thinking about custom A arms. Thanks for posting.

[ROEINONDUBS]

This thread is very interesting, I was just thinking about custom A arms. Thanks for posting.

Ya no prob I've got so much great info.