BMR torque arm setup welding question...

[anarchy99]

I'm installing my BMR torque arm setup into my car and had a quick question. The shock mount bracket that goes up against the frame rail in the rear of the car comes with bolts, but it can also be welded into place. I've got a little hobart 135 mig welder and I was wondering if you guys thought that that would be sufficient enough to weld the shock brace to the frame. It's roughly 1/4 inch thick. Thanks in advance. I could always bolt the tower to the frame, but I think welding would be much cleaner and make for a nicer install. Thanks in advance.

[silver69camaro]

I'd get a couple pieces of 1/4" scrap and do some test welds if you aren't familiar with that. That welder is good for up to 1/8", really...although some report sucess with thicker materials.

Also, the rear frame rails are about .045" thick, which makes me wonder why the bracket is 1/4". I think you'll have a tough time getting good penetration (assuming you're a novice) on the 1/4" bracket without blowing holes in the frame rail.

[anarchy99]

yeah I'm a novice. I appreciate the quick response. I think I'll just bolt it for piece of mind, so I don't have to wonder if this creek or that creek the car is making while I'm driving is another part of my weld breaking!

[killer69]

i'm with Matt trying to weld 1/4 to .045 over head??? i would pay somone to come and weld it for the 1/2 hour it will take . or just bolt it in like it was designed to be installed.

[anarchy99]

It was designed to be either welded or bolted in, the instructions cover both types of installs. I'm not 100% positive on the 1/4 inch thickness, just a guesstimate from the calibrated eyeballs.

[BMR Tech]

The brackets are made from 3/16" material which can easily be welded with your 135 amp welder. Are you using gas or flux core? Flux provides a little more penetration if you are concerned but is not necessary. Either way just make sure to properly clean the weld surfaces to get the best penetration possible and concentrate your heat on the bracket itself to keep from "blowing through" the frame rail. There is enough weldable surface area on the bracket that even if penetration is poor in some areas you could still have 6-8" of quality weld per side. The bracket itself supports the load, the weld just prevents it from walking forward or back.....

[anarchy99]

Yeah, I'm a retard. My calibrated eyeball was slightly off before my first cup off coffee this morning. I went ahead and bolted it in. I didn't trust my welds. The kit is outstanding and very well engineered and thought out. I do have one question for you guys over at BMR tech though. What is the little silver square aluminum bracket that comes in the kit. The kit is the watts link/ torque arm setup for the gm 10 bolt in a 69 camaro. The aluminum bracket is a square piece of aluminum with 3 holes in it. Couldn't fnd anything about it in the instructions, though I may be missing something.

[BMR Tech]

Yeah, I'm a retard. My calibrated eyeball was slightly off before my first cup off coffee this morning. I went ahead and bolted it in. I didn't trust my welds. The kit is outstanding and very well engineered and thought out. I do have one question for you guys over at BMR tech though. What is the little silver square aluminum bracket that comes in the kit. The kit is the watts link/ torque arm setup for the gm 10 bolt in a 69 camaro. The aluminum bracket is a square piece of aluminum with 3 holes in it. Couldn't fnd anything about it in the instructions, though I may be missing something.

I had to check with the office but I believe you bought the kit designed for the TH400, correct? Is the piece you are referring to?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

If so, that is a spacer for the transmission mount. It goes between the mount and the crossmember to position the transmission at the correct driveline angle. The transmission crossmember for the T-56 is the same as the one for the TH400, you just use the spacer to shim the transmission up to the correct height for the TH400. So basically, if you ever want to install a T-56 into your car, you already have the correct crossmember :twothumbs

Glad you like the product. If you get a moment, post some pix of your car and the installation, we always like seeing customer rides!

[JRouche]

18ga is all the frames are?? Sounds a lil thin. I was thinking it was at least 16 or 11 ga. Your welder will weld the 3/16" steel. Make sure you bevel the joint for proper penetration. If in fact the frame rails are only 18ga (.047") then I would be more concerned with it flexing under load than blow through during welding. Oh wait a sec, these are shock mounts right, not coilover mounts. I was thinking of coilovers. So yeah, the stress will be ALOT lower. I think you will be fine with welding them. Clean it really well, the frame, bevel the bracket at the weld joint. Crank up the heat to max and focus the heat towards the bracket to keep from burning up the frame. Im still surprised the frame is only 18ga. JR

[anarchy99]

I had to check with the office but I believe you bought the kit designed for the TH400, correct? Is the piece you are referring to?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Glad you like the product. If you get a moment, post some pix of your car and the installation, we always like seeing customer rides!

that's the piece. I was wondering what it was for since the online instructions didn't mention it. I've gotta drop the transmission out again anyways so I'll go ahead and get that piece on there. The kit looks amazing and is really an impressive piece when compared to the suspension setup it was replacing under the car (close to stock) I'll get some pics up later on today hopefully. Thanks again BMR!!!

[BMR Tech]

18ga is all the frames are?? Sounds a lil thin. I was thinking it was at least 16 or 11 ga. Your welder will weld the 3/16" steel. Make sure you bevel the joint for proper penetration. If in fact the frame rails are only 18ga (.047") then I would be more concerned with it flexing under load than blow through during welding. Oh wait a sec, these are shock mounts right, not coilover mounts. I was thinking of coilovers. So yeah, the stress will be ALOT lower. I think you will be fine with welding them. Clean it really well, the frame, bevel the bracket at the weld joint. Crank up the heat to max and focus the heat towards the bracket to keep from burning up the frame. Im still surprised the frame is only 18ga. JR

The factory frame rails are actually considered to be 16 gauge even though they measure .068-.073" (closer to 15 ga.). Some aftermarket rails are .090" but either way, it's better than .045", that would be scary!

[anarchy99]

I realize these aren't the best pics (iphone), and I promise I'll post up better, but I know pictures are worth 1000 words so here you go.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0398-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0400-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0402-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0407-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0408-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0409-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0415-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0414-1.jpg
this one is just a pic of the wheels and tires and I was playing around with the coilovers in the front... too low for my taste, but looks great!!!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0419-1.jpg

[dubbleu]

Hi I was just wondering if you had a chance to try out that torque arm rear set-up yet. Im ordering rear suspention this week and would like to know if this BMR torque arm can handle a good clutch drop off the line. Im sure they handle the corners great but havn't heard of anyone doing a good launch off the line. I have a 69 camaro with a 500hp BB. Tranny will be a T56 magnum, 12 bolt diff with 4:10 gears and no tub's so I think the rear tires are 9.5 inch.
Any feedback would be great.

Thanks

[hotrdblder]

plenty of fast 4th gens running tq arms that plant the tires. your 9.5 tire will be more of a limitation then the tq arm

[JRouche]

I realize these aren't the best pics (iphone), and I promise I'll post up better, but I know pictures are worth 1000 words so here you go.

Ok, Im very impressed!!!!!! You do some very nice work. Looks solid and well thought out. I gotta say, one of the better setups that I have seen around here.. And the pics are fine. You show some of the work we all like to see. I for one like your work.. JR

[anarchy99]

Ok, Im very impressed!!!!!! You do some very nice work. Looks solid and well thought out. I gotta say, one of the better setups that I have seen around here.. And the pics are fine. You show some of the work we all like to see. I for one like your work.. JR

I appreciate the kind words. I should be able to crank her up in a week or 2, just finished ordering the last of the parts, till I remember the ones I forgot to order.
The BMR setup went in better than anything else on the entire car. Every single nut and bolt on the car is aftermarket, as well as more than half the panels, and this was still the easiest install out of all of them. No hassles whatsoever. I can't begin thinking BMR for making such a sweet setup. I will post up more when I drive around on the car after I get it all finished here soon. The pics don't do justice on just how beefy it it though. My only comments on putting it in your car though...
1) have a friend to help... I'm sure like me, you've got friends happy to work for beer and pizza. The setup is very heavy and precise and lining everything up is difficult by yourself.
2) open every single baggie to check for parts. Some parts are packaged in with other parts in a really obscure way, so open everything.
3) fill the differential with fluid before putting the watts link support bracket on the rear. It will save you some minor headache. Also, my heavy duty TA cover had to be ground a little on the passenger side to get everything to fit, but no big deal at all.
getting there
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0431-1.jpg
got the D1 back on now also, just not in the first pic.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0378-1.jpg

[BMR Tech]

Great pics! Glad to see the car coming along....

[anarchy99]

thanks guys. I'm at home on leave right now and I'm doing all the last ditch stuff to try and finish the car up right. I'll be wheeling it out into the sun today and will get some better pics.

[BMR Tech]

Hi I was just wondering if you had a chance to try out that torque arm rear set-up yet. Im ordering rear suspention this week and would like to know if this BMR torque arm can handle a good clutch drop off the line. Im sure they handle the corners great but havn't heard of anyone doing a good launch off the line. I have a 69 camaro with a 500hp BB. Tranny will be a T56 magnum, 12 bolt diff with 4:10 gears and no tub's so I think the rear tires are 9.5 inch.
Any feedback would be great.

Thanks

Torque arms are great for drag racing, in fact you could probably say that torque arm suspensions in general are one of the best solid axle suspension designs for a multi-purpose application. For drag racing they work very similar to a ladder bar without all the "ladder bar streetability issues". We have been specializing in the 3rd and 4th generation F-body suspensions for 12 years now and have torque arms under tons of 7 and 8 second race cars as well as thousands of street/strip cars. While the torque arm conversion for the first and second generation cars is primarily intended for handling improvements when removing the leaf springs, a lot of the benefits migrate over to benefit drag racers as well. Our two primary test cars when developing the kit were a '68 magnacharged LS2 Camaro with a 6 speed and a '69 Procharged LT1 Camaro with a 6 speed. The LS1 made just over 500 rwhp and the LT1 right around 430. Both cars went through plenty of clutch dumps, I can tell you :twothumbs

While we have not explored the horsepower limitations of the setup, I can safely say that I wouldn't even begin to worry until maybe the 800+ hp range. As a more economical alternative, since you have a 12 bolt, you can actually buy just our torque arm to work with the existing leaf springs. The entire kit is not necessary for drag racing unless you want to eliminate the leaf springs. The torque arm by itself effectively acts as a set of traction bars by eliminating spring wrap but tucks up nicely out of the way. No more ugly traction bars hanging down. The telescoping front slider prevents bind and you can always upgrade to the complete kit at a later time!

[dubbleu]

Thanks for the reply Bret
So I ordered up your full BMR tourqe link kit for my 69 camaro 12bolt. I also have the T56 cross member on the way as well. My car is a convertible and I have been looking at ways to stiffin up the chassis. My question is will the cross brace and subframe connectors from Hotchkits do the job or will they interfere with the torque arm T56 crossmember set-up? If they do interfere can you give me some other suggestions on other products that would do the same job. Cant wait to install your kit it sure looks sweet in the above pictures

Thank in advace

Wayne

[BMR Tech]

Thanks for the reply Bret
So I ordered up your full BMR tourqe link kit for my 69 camaro 12bolt. I also have the T56 cross member on the way as well. My car is a convertible and I have been looking at ways to stiffin up the chassis. My question is will the cross brace and subframe connectors from Hotchkits do the job or will they interfere with the torque arm T56 crossmember set-up? If they do interfere can you give me some other suggestions on other products that would do the same job. Cant wait to install your kit it sure looks sweet in the above pictures

Thank in advace

Wayne

Wayne, unfortunately the convertible crossmember cannot be used with the torque arm setup so it makes it even more necessary to run a good set of subframe connectors. Our primary test car was actually a convertible and we tried just about everything to retain some sort of crossmember on the tunnel but to clear the torque arm properly the custom crossmember just hung down too low for practical daily driving. The Hotchkis connectors are good, stout units and will work fine however the best would be through-the-floor subframe connectors such as what Detroit Speed offers or our new weld-in connectors for the First Gen. These require more work to install but once installed provide way more rigidity over front-to-rear type frame ties. We have not released these yet however there are literally 50 pair ready to ship just waiting for photography, boxes and internal paperwork to get finished up. If you are interested, I am sure if you gave Lee at BMR a call, they could sell you a pair :-)

[dubbleu]

Heres some pics of the BMR torque link install. It went real well the kit looks awesome. Im sure it will perform just as good as it looks. Theres lots of adjustment to get the diff where a guy needs it. Im very impressed with BMR. Thier service was great and the kit was shipped out in a week and was complete with great instruction.
Thanks goes out to the boys at BMR.:)

[BMR Tech]

Heres some pics of the BMR torque link install. It went real well the kit looks awesome. Im sure it will perform just as good as it looks. Theres lots of adjustment to get the diff where a guy needs it. Im very impressed with BMR. Thier service was great and the kit was shipped out in a week and was complete with great instruction.
Thanks goes out to the boys at BMR.:)

Wow! The kit looks great in ORANGE! :cool: Glad you were happy with your BMR experience, looks like your car is coming along nicely.

Do you have a build thread somewhere else on the forum?

[dubbleu]

Here's a couple links on my car. Thanks again!!

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23776

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23684