Project "What If,,,?" 1984 Caprice 2dr

[MonzaRacer]

This car is going to b e home for my Big Block 402. Its had too much time sitting under a tarp in yard (no garage).
I intend to get it together, keep the air , power windows and locks and use it as a back up DD.
My big trick is getting enough parts and time to mess with it as job has me working late most nights.
Another thing is it will, with its large by huge trunk, give me access to spreading out parts between my 77 Monza which ahs turned into a storage facility and project, so I have to be motivated to work on taking stuff out, working on it THEN putting stuff pack in it.
So an 84 Caprice 2dr , for now I am thinking my rally's 15x8 and 15x7, then later look for say 17s, or if lucky 18s.
It will be probably getting CoolRide all the way around as its big enough I can relocate the front shocks.
This wont be a big project, just get it together, and then use it if need be, may also add in a trailer hitch to allow me to pull trailer for moving tool boxes or small hauling as I have a 18 ft trailer.
Figuring with Air Ride its should handle pretty good.
some issues will be the top of the drivers doors window frame, it has rust.
May try to weld in some metal or just use epoxy or panel bonding material and/ fiberglass resin jelly as its water proof too.
Some things I will need to get are radiator (thinking of one of the big universal ones from summit with electric fans) motor mount clam shells, new door seals and such.
One guy on here tucked the bumper ends on his Sports Roof and I may try that, I do want to try and keep it looking near stock, ie leave most of the trim in place.
I really need to see if I can get it running quick, and take it to my brothers and get some kind of paint on it as it does have some surface rust, but its light.
Heck may just keep the patina and make her a sleeper.
I am wondering on some black rims maybe?
Any good ideas on sticky steering wheels? Feels like its fly paper mostly from setting out in a field.
Post me up some ideas, I could use them I think.

[The Stickman]

Can be a cool car. I love the early box B-Bodies.

[Impala Matt]

nice to see another B-body on here. The big-block will make this extra cool.
What trans are you putting behind it?
Easy junk-yard suspension tips:
any B-body through '96 can donate its sway bars and related
also for big brakes up front use wagon or copcar spidles with '91 1LE Camaro rotors (to keep the 4 3/4" bolt pattern
good luck

[The Stickman]

Do the three of us constitute the B-Body Brigade?

[srh3trinity]

How about some steel Cragar Soft 8's in black, those are cool looking wheels and a cheap way to get yourself into some 17's.

[pmgm]

That should be a cool build when done..A 402 BB would be a good fit in there... I love the 2 dr B-bodies....

[Jake616]

I have been picturing one of these cars done up a lot lately. Can't wait to see more!

[MonzaRacer]

To bring it home.
But here is a pic of my buddies 79 sports roof, its now painted and yes this pic is same one from VFN web site, who he got his hood from. And now its all Bronze.

[MonzaRacer]

Now I just have to find a color for the car as the paint is SHOT.

[MonzaRacer]

Make this Caprice kind of like this:
What if Chevy had built a Caprice SS 2dr in '84,,,?
What if they wanted it to handle well,,,?
What if they wanted it to look and ride well,,,?
What if they had only had to add in emissions and had kept putting big blocks cars till the '80s,,,?
What if,,,?
If I rebuild it to drive, and run, and,,,. What would it be like and can I do it at a reasonable funds level and fun level.
Can it be tasteful yet make me proud,
Ideas are welcomed, criticism will be duly noted and well I need some nudges.
I have a console from a '64 Grand Prix, even has the 421 emblem on it, so my idea is to redo that as a 402 emblem, subtly change the console to handle my old Dual Gate II shifter for now.
At least add in the bigger 12" brakes, and heavier suspension.
I do intend to use CoolRide all the way around rather than ShockWaves, again What if (or what could have been) in '84.
I may switch to OD later on, dont know.
Thinking I am not sure what to do on wheels, updated or older style but keep them 17,18,20?
Again What if,,,?
OK guys bcar guys and others I need some alternative ideas.
I will probably start with my 15 in rallys. jsut for rolling and winter driving.
Trying to get a hold of Jeff Schwartz to pick his brain on the 82 Caddy they built, I love the wheel sizes he used. And need to make sure of susepnsion mod ideas.
I do have a Cowl induction hood scoop so Ill use it for now.
Do I need SS stripes or would it have progressed to something more?

[Josh]

I am doing a 79 2 door hardtop that is getting closer to completion. It is in final primer and this car was fully stripped for new paint. The BBC 540 with 315 AFR heads is on the frame rails and the tranny will be a TH400. I have a set of Bose wheels (19's and 18's) with 235 front rubber and 315 in the rear. I narowed the 9C1 rear end by 5" to keep the wheels nice and deep and the 315's do fit in the stock wheel well, barely ( had to shave and re-weld the lips). A Panhard bar keeps it from rubbing. It will be black on black, stock interior and exterior minus the rocker and wheel well trim. Lowered slightly. I wish I would have considered the cowl hood before the body work was done but I guess I do have an extra hood if I ever want to tackle that. I can't wait to get it going, the motor sounded wicked on the starting stand!

[Impala Matt]

for your suspension questions call sc and c they carry the spc adjustable a-arms and can set you up with a set for your b-body
on mine i used the howe racing ball joint (upper) which is 1" taller than stock I am very happy with the way my Impala handles the corners and
think these a arm are the best single piece on my front end

[MonzaRacer]

My intention is to up grade parts, and still need t oget the engine in it for winter first, I am hoping ZR1 repro wheels will fit ok. Still debating silver, chrome,black in 17x11 and 17x9.5 .
Thinking black ones, not sure yet.
Still debating tucking the bumpers, and need to fix different things.

[MonzaRacer]

Well I Kore 3 adapters and Corvette brakes on the front, and I am thinking of using either the rear disc brakes from newer S10s or the Corvette, not sure which way to go there yet.
Not sure what the tall ball joints would do for it but I do understand the use of the SPC upper arms.
Has anyone ever seen the camber curve of these frontends?
My other thought is if I should go with 18s and larger brakes or stick with the 17" ZR1 Corvettes and stick with the 325 Vette brakes rather than the 340 or 355.

[MonzaRacer]

OK so an update from "What if,,".
Brakes are shaping up, Kore3 adapters, C5 brakes not sure which yet, that actually depends on which Corvette wheels, 17x9.5 or 17x11 or





NEW C6 Z06 Black Wheels (C5 Z06 Sizes)
Sizes: 17 x 9.5 / 18 x 10.5
Fits: 1988 - 2004 Chevy Corvette

* FINISH: Competition Black!!
* Logo Center Caps included!
* Factory Reproductions of New C6 Z06 Competition Wheels
* Bolt Pattern: 5 x 4.75"
* Staggered Set: 17x9.5 fronts and 18x10.5 rears!!
* FINISH WARRANTY!!

[MonzaRacer]

17x9.5 and 18x10.5

[MonzaRacer]

Another thing to do is to finally do up a switch pitch 400 on this car 2 stall speed converter, this should help it perform better rather than a low stall converter and work better than a higher stall one. A hope of mine is that this works to my benefit, besides I have had the switch pitch for 20 some years.
Rear brakes will be S10 with better pads, Now just gotta get all my ducks in a row.

[MonzaRacer]

WOOHOO, FIGURED OUT THE WHEELS I INTEND TO USE AT FIRST WILL ONLY RUN $649!
AAfter seeing it run and drive I may order some new wheels like Rushforth or such, I just can see developing a car around wheels worth more than car build so far.
This will be driver not show piece.

[MonzaRacer]

OK so here are the plans:
Suspension:
Ridetech CoolRide front and rear, Hellwig sway bars, maybe even use the double adjustable Ridetech shocks.
I figure on using N2O tanks for air tanks on Air Ride so this will both fake out some and just be different!
Pretty simple plan.
Wheels:
Finish Line Wheels C5/C6 Z06 Vette wheels in 18x9.5 and 18x10
Tires: Most likely Nittos. Not set on sizes yet.
Front brakes: Looking at Kore 3 adapters and have located a set of large (355mm) Corvette brakes in front
Rear Brakes: Ill use S10 rear disc for the back so I can switch to 15in tires for dragracing.
Engine: It will be my 402 BBC, maybe later on some FI
Trans: I am going to mod my TH400 with Switch pitch setup, 1400rpm low stall/3000/3500 rpm high stall.
Rear end: I will look around for 8.5 10 bolt, Ill use probably 3.08-3.42 with limited slip.

[MonzaRacer]

OK so here are the plans:
Suspension:
Ridetech CoolRide front and rear, Hellwig sway bars, maybe even use the double adjustable Ridetech shocks.
I figure on using N2O tanks for air tanks on Air Ride so this will both fake out some and just be different!
Pretty simple plan.
Wheels:
Finish Line Wheels C5/C6 Z06 Vette wheels in 18x9.5 and 18x10
Tires: Most likely Nittos. Not set on sizes yet.
Front brakes: Looking at Kore 3 adapters and have located a set of large (355mm) Corvette brakes in front
Rear Brakes: Ill use S10 rear disc for the back so I can switch to 15in tires for dragracing.
Engine: It will be my 402 BBC, maybe later on some FI
Trans: I am going to mod my TH400 with Switch pitch setup, 1400rpm low stall/3000/3500 rpm high stall.
Rear end: I will look around for 8.5 10 bolt, Ill use probably 3.08-3.42 with limited slip.

[MonzaRacer]

So I pulled the car home, I have pages of notes, ideas and mental files for mods and just trying to get started, you know getting all the tools ready, its a big process.
So it came home behind a tractor, and steering was terrible, and I found out why, the right outer tie rod is broke and dragging under right lower control arm.
So here we go:
First new part,
1) ES2019RGL right outer tie rod $8.17
Its not much but after last 2 weeks all I can do, got hit by dentist TWICE to take care of abscess tooth.

[MonzaRacer]

OK so what is it about painting under hood that makes a guy feel like he has done something yet it too less than 20 minutes and only cost $5.28, one can of gloss black Rustoleum and one can of walmart black for frame. Going to use Rustoleum for the firewall and inner fenders and under hood as its covers better and looks/lays good. Used to use all walmart $.96 cent paint, still under $1.00 and still thin but for a frame on a driver, ,,,good enough. Now if Dewalt battery comes in soon Ill be able to get my home antennae and start moding the front and rear bumpers, going to smooth and tuck them.

[MonzaRacer]

So I decided to get big block ready to drop in,,,,and lo and behold where it was sitting it fell over and had gotten into a bad position.
So 2 cylinders with some rust, may be hone-able if not it may get one sleeve in emergency.
This is a budget build so if it hones out it get rings and bearings and hopefully I can come up with some open chamber heads to drop the compression for a more pump gas friendly unit.
Fun stuff, it didnt take much to get freed up, the hydraulic cam still looks serviceable, the timing chain is slack.
My actual plans are to re-install the Chet Herbert cam roller cam I have if I can score a reasonably priced set of hyd roller lifters.
Oh yeah kind of weird when you find the oil pump pick up screen broke off the pipe!
All things considered it doesnt look bad so far, but it just depends on few things.
Need to change the bad tie rod end and get the ralleys on it and those aluminum wheels back to guys I got car from. Also need to drag out my tranny and see what its going to need.
Its so weird, my buddy sold me his air compressor so I do now have some air source to work with, I am starting to think of a flat black epoxy primer to start.
I am thinking of swapping in the high back buckets(power driver ) seats from my 69 Ventura(from a 74 Grand Prix) and still thinking of using the 64 Grand Prix 421 console I have as it has this cool piece that mates up with the dash, I figure it will be good place for either gauges for engine or possibly for the Air Ride.
So I am looking for 781 casting heads, hydraulic roller lifters or some seriously stout mechanicals, as I have had some issues keeping roller lifters together.
Also looking for a radiator, thinking about one of the sheap aluminums from Ebay.
Well this update is in. Oh and I need to up date the Cheap Trick Monza thread too.

[MonzaRacer]

So we tore down the 402, some rust in couple of cylinders, hope it hones out or I may sleeve it.
Been looking for some roller lifter to reinstall my Chet Herbert roller, and maybe some 1.8 roller rockers to build some extra lift.
Its a small cam but great torque maker so I hope it helps in autocross.
Also working on some open chamber heads to make gas cheaper.
Now I hope after some paycheck issues I can get started. IE my pay check form 2 weeks ago bounced and its still causing issues.

[MonzaRacer]

WOOHOO Finally got some extra coming to help with getting something running. I decided to sell my bow as I cant really pull it comfortably anymore and to make it useful would take $150 to $250 bucks, new lighter limbs and while its down new strings/cable so I sold it, and this should let me buy a 77 454 my friend has from a motor home, ann stock top to bottom, air cleaner to oil pan for $500.
I'll reseal it, clean her up and throw on my cheap chrome valve covers, my Victor Jr intake and get it in and running and sort out little odds and ends.

This should get her rolling and then Ill look at upgrading the suspension and brakes, wheels and tires and make it run and turn!
so look for updates down the road.

[MonzaRacer]

Well 1/2 down on the $500 for the 454, looks like its gonna run first. gotta get things cleaned up, see if oil pan will work or have to swap mine off my 402, probably change the TC set for luck and maybe the plugs too.
I have some awesome 454 plug boots, figure Ill buy a roll of spiro pro plug wire and build my own wires!
This cars plan is to look like simple, yet performance, like "What if Chevy build a Caprice with big block and handling in 1984,,,hence 'What If..."

[MonzaRacer]

Well my buddy is pulling a .570 lift Elgin hyd cam out of a 496 he bought to install a Mutha' Thumper cam thats bigger, it has a generic double roller he wont use so I may get that too.
Kind of weird building cool cars from other peoples throw away parts.
I need to get my Victor Jr oval port intake fixed, the temp sender hole needs some re-welding and re-threading.
I got the complete engine with carb so I have running Q-jet, an Edelbrock 750 that may or may not need rebuilding and a 780 Holley that does need rebuilt.
So the 402 is still a plan, just gotta put in more cash for new pistons or sleeves so the low buck 454 will do for now.
My next thing is to work on checking out my old th400 and set about getting ready to throw stuff together.
Hoping to have it running and ready for Power Tour. But since I just had a double abscess tooth this might be an issue, but time will tell.

[MonzaRacer]

Well switching jobs or at least leaving my job may be good or bad for this project,,, time will tell.

[MonzaRacer]

new pics to use

[MonzaRacer]

Well if weather starts shaping up Ill start putting BBC in the Caprice. I have couple of better tires to hold air for front from my nephews old mustang, 235/60/15 on 7 in ralleys for now, then look around for appropriate Corvette wheels and get the adapters I want. also looking at some 12 in rotors Ihave from my sister inlaws STS caddy that may be able to swap in temporarily for a larger rotor and use stock caliper with some sort of adapter,,,,or if buddy scraps a 92/93 Caddy he bough from buddy and it had 12 in brakes may try to buy those and swap in later GM stuff and if it has ABS use that too!,, may even see if can make some interior stuff work, it should be bolt in, and even similar to Imp SS stuff. Also need to settle on parts to add in Cool Ride from RideTech so Ican have it on air.
Well fun stuff about to happen as weather , job and such are getting better. God has blessed me and while its not a lottery winning blessing, it IS a blessing even if lots of hard work.

[MonzaRacer]

Ttt

[MonzaRacer]

Come on spring and better weather. I need to get engine dropped in and see what I need for a DS and get it rolling. Now got stuff to work on BOTH cars, so decisions are hard,,guess when its bad out, do engine work on Monza engine and work outside when weather is better.

[MonzaRacer]

OK so after talking to Ron Sutton I have some ideas on how to make this car handle better and maybe even be competitive if I really get out and run her hard,,,,,but gotta get it running first, regardless.

[LUV2XLR8]

whats going on with the impala in your first post? i'd be dumping my cash into that!

[MonzaRacer]

After talking to Ron Sutton I am working out parts and trying to locate some pieces for my suspension. Running Crown Vic control arms make fitting later model offset wheels due to the longer arms.
Ok I'm game for that, and even willing to do some serious mods to get the possible benefits of better scrub radius.
So according to Ron a 10 to 1 box is preferred,,,biggest issue is finding one AND buying it.
So after doing some research I found that some people are swapping Jeep 12 to 1 boxes and wondered if it would work on my Caprice as the price is right, for now. And then get a custom box down the road.
Reason for faster ratio is to negate the long steering arms on the B car.
So here is hoping someone has a clue if it would work or if there would need to be some more work to make it function properly.
Also trying to decide on if I should run same size tires and wheels all around or go big and littles.
After seeing Schwartz Performance RSE Caddy running Road America on 17in Corvette rubber(315/40/17 and 275/40/17) I like that look, but if I were to work out using same size 275/35/18 and 9.5 in Vette wheels it might even make rotations easier.
Supposedly I can barely fit 10.5 in wide rims in back if I work out offsets, axle width and possibly wheel adapters.
Not my first choice, but also looking into wider rearends also, possibly using truck parts or custom stuff.
Still thinking about air ride. Either CoolRide or ShockWaves, I did get a chance to chat with Bret about it, and of course his input matters and he leans towards ShockWaves.
Just another evolutionary step I guess in "What If,,," but sometimes decisions can be difficult.

[MonzaRacer]

Well taxes are approved, should have money tomorrow. ow after getting bills caught up , look for new/used dryer, etc.
What parts do I get for which car? thinking of rings for 283 and other small parts.
So calipers, turbos, wheels, ??????
Have found several times 17x7 front wheels, bad news is good prices are gone. Still debating on rear wheels.
Good new though was that FINALLY got my 2 new pairs of glasses from wreck back in Dec. 2012, only 13 months later SHEESH.
Also still have to look for replacement parts for DD after deer strike :(

Now odd man out is which car gets first attention Monza or Caprice. Still time if I maintain some cash as its too cold to work on anything right now.

[MonzaRacer]

Well still thinking about what I am gonna use.
I love designing and engineering in my head.
I have engineered parts in my head and with a tape measure/ruler, 4 in grinder, cut off wheels and an old cheap a$$ tap an die set my dad paid $9 at Harbor Freight for.
WE had a 6 in grinder, tiny 3 or 3 1/2 in vice. The grinder capacitor would kick out if you pushed it hard.
When I got some gift cards, bought my own Craftsman 6 in grinder.
Also bought a 5 1/2in MAC vice.
Also my other handy tool was dads old 1/4 skill drill.
Till I bought my Craftsman 3/8 drill.
A 5 hp Craftsman compressor. But before a 1hp Monkey Wards compressor of dads.


So with no garage, little cash and a big dream.

Ron Sutton has given me a little help, swap in a set of Crown Vic lower control arms. Available from Dorman or junkyard.
Howe has a 22407 hybrid ball joint for lowers.
This moves wheels out 1 1/4" lowering scrub radius. So I have gotten inventive and want to try to use the Crown Vic uper with caster/camber adjuster in it.
Still looking for old arms to mock up. Also looking to either remake, have made or build a way to use this ball joint to give more adjustability to my car.

I am still working out what wheels I can afford to start with.
The plan for this car will be Ridetech air.
The big block will run a stone stock truck engine, at least the shortblock for now. I might swap on my closed chamber 290 heads after a rebuild as this engine is a VERY low compression unit.

I have regualr new rotors for now, probably will use some sort of performance pad till I upgrade to Corvette brakes.
Hoping to go with 18s and 14 in front brakes. Somewhere ai have the part numbers for S10 rear disc complete backing plates. As they use same pbrake shoe as Corvette rears I may be able to adapt.

Still up in air which air system, was thinking of CoolRide, but caught Bret at local fair last year and he keeps nudging me towards ShockWaves.