DSE wheels tubs in a nova rubbing the tire??

[badbrad900rr]

Talked with DSE and resolved the problem.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/0920091605a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/0920091609a-1.jpg

here is a picture of the DSE wheel tub installed so you wont think i put it in wrong

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/000_1778-1.jpg

[LS1NOVA]

The problem is DSE says only a 315 will safely fit and your trying to put a 325 under it, so Id say you should expect some additional mods. Nice project!!

[LowBuckX]

Now I know details but still stick with this>>> Again another post blaming a part when its clearly something else causing the problem..

[79T/Aman]

Well since Badbrad editted his entire post and came back with silly slams to make use look like idiots I'll remove my post as well

[John Wright]

Can you slice it and add a strip back in?

[badbrad900rr]

the problem is a combo of things that they dont tell you, like my 6" ride height for one and i am using a 20" wheel with a 315 and not a 17" wheel with a 315. so next time you want to put your 2 cents in know your facts first.
LOWBUCKS you shouldnt be allowed to post on here if your that stupid. build a car and not a post.
JOHN WRIGHT you are the only one i will respond to sensibly, width is not my problem, the 17X11 fits great clearance on both sides, the rearend has no travel room to go up with out hitting the frame due to the 6" ride height, i need a 4" C notch in the frame, and the diameter of the tire is what is hitting the wheel tub where it comes down in the rear at the trunk drop off. The 325/45/17 is the same diameter as a 315/35/20 it is 28" tall.

[Rhino]

I agree forums are often filled with self proclaimed experts, but calling them names will do nothing more than reduce everyone elses efforts to help you. The funny thing about the internet is that you have no idea how important that bridge you just burned may be.

With that out of the way... The issue is more of your desired ride height than it is product, correct? John's point could still be valid. You'll notice the wheel tubs aren't an abrupt transition from horizontal to vertical, it's a gentle transition. By widening the tub more, at it's peak, allows the tire corners (where I would imagine you're having the rubbing occur) more space when the suspension cycles. Depending on how much rubbing is occurring you may be able to resolve it with a little heat or a BFH.

What did DSE have to say about the issue? How much room do you have for the suspension to cycle at that height? I'm looking at having my '68 Camaros rockers 6.5 to 7" off the ground with 3.5" of bump travel. To accomplish this, I do have to add a small notch to insure that the frame doesn't get in the way. I couldn't imagine the need for a full 4" of vertical height for a notch. When you say 4", do you mean the diameter of round tube used for the notch?

[parsonsj]

Brad,

I edited your post, and removed the school yard name calling.

Listen to Rhino: he's got some good suggestions for you.

jp

[LowBuckX]

Build a car.... And not a post.. Nice wish I saw your original post obviously you havent been around long. Still would like to know how its DSEs fault that you are using their product in a way its not designed. Ill send you a straight edge you sure could use it.

[John Wright]

Talked with DSE and resolved the problem.
Glad they were able to work with you, sounds like stepped up and helped you out...kudos to DSE for helping with the resolution.

So....did you end up with a larger tub to work with the larger rims/tires and the added body/chassis drop?

[badbrad900rr]

I am going to modify the existing tub, wont be a real big deal being it is only hitting at the rear, i have clearance eveywhere else. I never said it was DSE's fault, it is clearly my fault, but no where did it say the car can be no lower than 3" under stock height nor did it say the largest rim diameter wheel and tire was a 315/35/17. The 17 is the major part. I still have a 315, just on a 20. How bout i just come pick that straight edge up.

[mulisha00]

Build a car.... And not a post.. Nice wish I saw your original post obviously you havent been around long. Still would like to know how its DSEs fault that you are using their product in a way its not designed. Ill send you a straight edge you sure could use it.


I think the what Brad is getting at is the fact that the offset has no effect on the tire size hence the smarta$$ response he gave. :enguard:

I say ban him or send him to time out IMO.

[JRouche]

Real tubs would solve the problem :poke:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/4linkclip5-1.jpg

Just kidding :)

The 315/35/20 is a truck tire. So maybe DSE didnt expect anyone would want to stuff a truck tire under their car. And Im not saying its not a good idea, it looks good on your car, actually looks kinda small, the wheel diameter, doesnt look outta place.

But the 28" dia is pretty large for a car. A stock suspension car. I could fit a 34" tall tire if I needed too. But my suspension is FAR from stock.

But, it sounds like you are on the road to fixing it, thats cool. JR

[JRouche]

delete. I didnt read the post correctly. :) What else is new JR

[badbrad900rr]

rhino, DSE told me the largest wheel and tire combo they recommend is a 315/35/17, this has a 25.7" diameter, the wheel tire combo i am running is a 315/35/20, this has a 28.7 diameter. I have clearance everywhere except at the very back of the wheel tub, it hits the tire all way across at the rear. Nothing a hammer or heating will fix, this will have to be cut an moved for the clearance i need.
As for ride height, my ride height is 7" at the rocker in the rear and 6" at the rocker in the front. Sorry i am late for work, i will finish this up tonight.

[Rhino]

Ahh, I see where your trouble is. Be careful when you're moving the tub backward. I'm pretty sure your Nova is the same configuration as a first gen F-body. The frame rails start "kicking out" about 1/2 the way through the tub. Since we have to cut into this for the tub, the frame rail gets rather thin at the rear. By moving the tub back further, I would imagine you're going to have to make some changes to keep from cutting all the way through the frame, or possibly reinforce the inside of it by welding in additional support.

Please keep us updated as to what you need to do. I've been planning on using a 26.6" diameter tire in the rear and will have only a slightly higher ride height. I think I may run into a similar issue, but only at full bump of my suspension.

[badbrad900rr]

i am going to cut the stock frame rails out now and make my own with a slightly higher notch over the rearend for travel, i will keep you updated with pictures. The only thing that pissed me off earlier in the this thread was the guy talking about the backspacing? What does backspacing have to do with anything when there is no rearend in the car and you are only mocking up tire size? Oh well, we should start doing some cutting in a couple weeks, I have a 88 mustang coupe that i am going to mini tub next week and it is a lot closer to being drivable than my nova so it will get priority! But i will keep you up to date on things. Thanks for the support.

[JRouche]

The only thing that pissed me off earlier in the this thread was the guy talking about the backspacing? What does backspacing have to do with anything when there is no rearend in the car and you are only mocking up tire size?

Holy crap dude. Still on a rant.

Hey, I know you have been on this site longer than myself, but I dont care.

This sub forum General Technical Discussion usually has three types of posts.
1. asking for help
2. giving some helpful info
3. showing some work

They all have something in common, productivity. Progress.

A rant or bitch about some guys post is non-productive. It makes any guy that comes along, new member or old NOT want to give some productive input for fear of getting bashed. Thats not cool at all.

Its not about pointing fingers saying whats his name doesnt know what he is talking about. If you see a post or reply that just doesnt make sense you just ignore it. Unless someone is posting some dangerous ideas. But if its just a simple misunderstanding or a different concept you just drop it. But to drag up someone else's post and bag on it later just doesnt show much but some petty thinking on your end.

So you might say, well dude, thats what yer doing right now. Nope, Im trying (bite my tongue hard) to be constructive and showing how forum etiquette rolls. JR

[JRouche]

i am going to cut the stock frame rails out now and make my own with a slightly higher notch over the rearend for travel, i will keep you updated with pictures.

Now.... For some constructive talk. Yeah!!! Cool. I think you are better off making some new stubs to fit what you need. That way you will get the clearance for the rearend tubes and gain some strength too. Love to see the build pics, those are always good. And, I saw you are tackling the stang project too. Yer plate is full huh. Priorities!! JR

[LowBuckX]

Details details. In your first post you did not mention lack of rear end. Your description sounded as if the wheel was rubbing the frame but clear on the face hence my post..... And realy you didnt threaten me did you.. ON the net in a civil forum. Nice

[badbrad900rr]

i dont do threats. you must not be able to read either, i never said anything about the tire hitting the frame, i said the rearend travel would hit the frame, i clearly stated that the tire was hitting the wheel tub. get a life man, stay off my post here. you got no advice i need.

[LowBuckX]

Oh Ive got advise. but I will bite my tounge. And its lowBuck X As in X body as in Nova

[badbrad900rr]

good for you! post a pic.

[LowBuckX]

^^^^^pointing you to my avatar is the most effort I will make for you.

[badbrad900rr]

no joke post a pic so i can check your work out, not many people pro tour a nova, let me see it.

[Rhino]

Since you're getting rid of the rails, I'm assuming you're ditching the leafs as well? Have you decided what you'll be doing for a rear suspension?

[JRouche]

no joke post a pic so i can check your work out, not many people pro tour a nova, let me see it.

Yer right, not many "pro-touring" Novas. But there are a few. Some that are just really sick with the modifications, way beyond what I could afford or dream up, I could name and show a few.

But here is my lil nova. It will drive fine on the road Im thinking. Race?? Oh, not built for it, but who knows .

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55420

Im wrapping up the front right now. Got the control arms worked out and the speedway engineering roll bar that I didnt think was gonna fit is in place FINALLY. Front build pics to follow. But this link shows SOME of the rear build. Its all fun, I love working on the car. JR

[badbrad900rr]

I am going with a custom 4-link set up, similar to the set up on a 66-67 chevelle, where the bottom 2 are parallel, and the top 2 are angled so there will be no need for a anti-roll or trac locator, i am using spherical bushings on the top, the ones used on circle track cars, and using teflon leaf spring bushings on the bottom and making all the bars, should be a very unique, good handling set up. As for your nova, That is some awsome work! You do all your own fabricating?

[JRouche]

I am going with a custom 4-link set up, similar to the set up on a 66-67 chevelle, where the bottom 2 are parallel, and the top 2 are angled so there will be no need for a anti-roll or trac locator, i am using spherical bushings on the top, the ones used on circle track cars, and using teflon leaf spring bushings on the bottom and making all the bars, should be a very unique, good handling set up. As for your nova, That is some awsome work! You do all your own fabricating?

I cant wait to see the pics... Thanks for the props. I fabricated what I showed. I didnt do the frame rails though...Art Morrison did the frame. Yeah, Im a one man garage :) JR

[badbrad900rr]

that fab works looks great, i wish i knew a little more in the fabrication department! I have to pay someone to do the fab work most of the time, good thing i can save on the body and paint work! I will keep you up to date with the pictures.

[Damn True]

. good thing i can save on the body and paint work! I will keep you up to date with the pictures.

That is the part I have to farm out. Illegal as hell to do it in your garage in CA, and I have no ability whatsoever in that area.

[badbrad900rr]

it equals out for me, because what i charge someone to do some work usually comes in the left hand and goes out the right hand to pay somebody else! But i guess thats 99% of america! If its cars or bills, your gonna have to pay someone! Send me some work from CA! VOC laws are not as strict on the east coast yet. But every VOC law they come up with in CA usually cycles through to VA after about 5 years.

[JRouche]

it equals out for me, because what i charge someone to do some work usually comes in the left hand and goes out the right hand to pay somebody else! But i guess thats 99% of america! If its cars or bills, your gonna have to pay someone! Send me some work from CA! VOC laws are not as strict on the east coast yet. But every VOC law they come up with in CA usually cycles through to VA after about 5 years.

The car is on a trailer heading yer way!!! Oh wait, like you said, what I pay one guy extra out here will getting eaten up on transportation costs. Hang on a sec.. "Bronwyn!!! Take the car back off the trailer!!" K sorry, Im back, had to ask my wife to remove the car from the trailer. LOL

Whats funny is Im stuck in the land of Green, tree huggers and liberals abound. Yeah, I love trees too :) So I used to get really pissed when the environmentalist would shut down all the common things I liked. But Im starting to see, there may be a good byproduct here.

It forces the big names in auto chemistry, for example paint, to do some research and find a solution and thats a good thing. Im ALL for advancement.. They need to keep up with the rest of the industry in our "green state" and supply a decent product. So with the advances in chemistry the are coming up with a comparable water based stage. Well what the heck!!! Force the chemists to go back to work and they will provide a decent product.

I hate to say it, but I think when the companies are forced into spending some capitol on research and development thats a GOOD thing. When they become stagnant and are willing to produce a decent product line they will stay on that line, reaping the huge profits.

Down side? They will defer the cost to the consumer, cant eat the profit line.

Forced advancements sounds harsh. I dont like the idea of government forcing the business owner. But I kinda think in this small area (maybe others too, better auto fuels for one) it has served it purpose.

California is a large market. And the majority of the citizens of the state basically told the chemical industry to come up with a product that is comparable to the not so environmentally safe product (solvent carried colors).

It will dictate how the importers paint their cars too. They will have to make it compatible so we can fix the cars we wreck. It will become a global change. The consumer dictates the market.

Fricken tree huggers LOL JUST KIDDING.. But.... If the paints dont hold up to the high quality that we get now the trend might be alot of car enthusiasts heading to mexico to get a good paint job. Kinda funny. Trailering the car south to get a better paint job cause they will still be spraying the good stuff. Oh, thats if the good stuff is still available. The manufactures wont be making it anymore, not enough major buyers. So its gonna die off anyway huh...

I sure hope these chemists we have now or later are getting the education their paying for and produce some great water based paints... Otherwise our great great grand kids will be looking at old pics of the cars back when the paint was at its best. Our cars...

WoW!!!! I should stop writing :) JR

[Damn True]

When I built my house I had all my cabinets (kitchen, laundry room and two full baths) built in Boise, ID and shipped to CA for install.

The guy that did them in ID is able to use finishes that are illegal to spray in CA and 1/4 of the materials price. The wood was cheaper (lower sales taxes) and his labor costs are much lower. Didn't hurt that the invoices were all in English too.

All told it cost me about 30% less (after I paid for shipping) to get better craftsmanship with a finish that will last 3x as long as the low VOC garbage that CA cabinet builders have to use.

[69SS502]

Just ran across this post and have a few question. I am in the process of installing the DSE mini tub kit in my 69 nova that I will be using 20/315. I called DSE before I ordered the kit and told them what tire and wheel I would be using and they said that it would fit with the 2" drop springs that comes with the kit but that I would not be able to go lower. Being that some of the post have been removed I am not sure what the rubbing problem was and I am hoping that the guy was trying to make the kit work with a very low ride height. Is this correct? If there are some issues with running a 20 wheel I would like to know before I get everything welded in. Thanks guys.

[MrQuick]

Just ran across this post and have a few question. I am in the process of installing the DSE mini tub kit in my 69 nova that I will be using 20/315. I called DSE before I ordered the kit and told them what tire and wheel I would be using and they said that it would fit with the 2" drop springs that comes with the kit but that I would not be able to go lower. Being that some of the post have been removed I am not sure what the rubbing problem was and I am hoping that the guy was trying to make the kit work with a very low ride height. Is this correct? If there are some issues with running a 20 wheel I would like to know before I get everything welded in. Thanks guys.
I would suggest cutting everything that interfers out, mock up your rim and tire combination and continue clearing material till you have a good perimeter around the tire. I'd imagine its will take a bit more frame work too.

Tack in your tub and put your suspenson through its motions. Create your fill plates the artiulate the suspension again.

It will take time but after you stuff all that in there without rubbing it will be well worth the labor.

Also you might want to start your own thread as adding on to this one is not good. Might bring up some bad feelings for some to read it over again.
good luck,
vince