Big brake kits, how much of a difference did you notice?

[Ripped]

When you swapped out your old drums, or factory discs in your vintage muscle car, how much of a difference did you notice in,
pure straight line stopping?
day to day in traffic driving? (stop and go)
canyon cruising? (spirted curvy roads - throttle - gears -brakes)

I am trying to decide on how far I want to go with my front brakes.
I can go to a 13" disc with the cobra PBR style caliper
for about the same price I can go to a 4 piston brembo caliper
for about 500 more I can go to a 6 piston baer 13" 2pc rotor
or for 550 more can go to a 14" rotor with the same caliper.

The advantage of the cobra/brembo style is parts replacement
regular stocked caliper parts, pads, off the shelf rotors

the bigger baers are going to use a baer rotor and caliper, corvette pads. so maintenence is going to be more $

I am going to be driving the car a lot, so down the road maintenance is a consideration. The again, so is braking :)

your experiences, thoughts?

[Bill Howell]

In the grand scheme of building a decent car, good brakes are a bargain. Skimping on brakes just don't make sense these days. I say put the best brakes you can afford on your car. The original stuff was junk, 40 years ago so why not while you are upgrading, do the best you can. Of course, remember with 14" you will be into 18" wheels, so figure the cost of the bigger rims and tires too. In a panic stop, you will never wish you had the smaller brakes.

[novaderrik]

going from properly functioning stock power drum brakes to 12" C4 brakes with a manual master cylinder on my Nova was like a night and day difference, and well worth the $550 or so and the few hours of fitting and fabrication that i had into the swap.
beyond the sheer stopping power, the biggest benefit was knowing that the brakes were going to work perfectly every time i hit the pedal, no matter what the situation happened to be. with the drums, they would loosen up over time, and one of them would alwasy get out of adjustment more than the other, which leads to some fun unplanned high speed lane changes if you aren't paying attention.

[John McIntire]

This is a good question. I've noticed that people that have swapped to discs have actually gone to manual discs. Is there that much more pedal effort while stopping? I know a lot of guys talk about pedal feel, which is all well and good, but I do most of my driving on the street where all I really care is about stopping.
Right now I have 4 wheel manual drum brakes and would like to upgrade in the near future, but like Bill said, you'll need bigger wheels and so on, and it can really snowball out of control! So I'm jst going to save a bit more, cause the 14 inch wheels and drum brakes are killing me!

[gort69]

Going from factory vacuum assisted front disc/rear drum to Hydroboosted C5/LS1 4 disc system was a huge improvement. Pieced together the brakes myself and got a Hydratch hydroboost for full retail - still under $2K by a fair amount.

[JRouche]

Very funny. I was just in your shoes (pun yup) recently. I was looking really hard at the cobra/PBR 13" setup. The price was right and consumables easy to get. But I did some last minute checking of the dimensions and Im glad I did.

I only have 17" wheels. So it was gonna be tight, but they will work with MOST 17" wheels. Not mine. I have billet specialties wheels with a smooth lip. The strengthening rib is put further into the wheel, behind the center to give a smooth lip. Well sure enough the PBR calipers would have hit the rib now. On standard wheels the rib doesnt come that far inboard.

So for a couple bucks more I went with some wilwood 13" brakes. The caliper is not as tall as the PBR cause its a two piece four piston caliper. Not a cast one piece caliper. Just something to think about. Make sure what you pick fits. Oh, and the WWs were nice cause it was a zero offset and I was at my limit for tire clearance. JR

[Ripped]

thanks for your feedback guys.

I have looked at the templates and can fit a wide range of combos through 14"

I am just having trouble deciding how much braking is enough

[Bryce]

i went from all drums to 11.75" 4 piston wilwoods in the front and it works great and a manual dual master cylinder.

keep in mind how much tire to road contact you will have. If you over design your brakes for the tire width you will just be wasting the larger diameter brakes, unless you get brake fade in a roadcourse and need the larger diameter for cooling.

also the larger the diameter the heavier the rotor and the slower the accelration of the car. "moment of inertia"

that is why i stayed as small as i could on my brakes. and i am only running a 25.5" tall tire.

but my car is 2700 lbs and i can get away with less braking than a 3400 lb mustang.

[Ripped]

Good points on the rotor size, and yeah I am heavy I bet probably 3500#.

On my truck the 20" rims and tires weigh in at 74# a corner, whereas the original rims and tires were 53# a corner

[JRouche]

If you over design your brakes for the tire width you will just be wasting the larger diameter brakes, unless you get brake fade in a roadcourse and need the larger diameter for cooling.

also the larger the diameter the heavier the rotor and the slower the accelration of the car. "moment of inertia"


You have some great points. When you stuff too much rotor in there you may not even be getting to the point where they are needed. There is an amount of additional leverage with a larger rotor, more whoa feel. And great for brake fade too. But to get to the point where a lager than 11 or 12 inch rotors is gonna get so hot to start fading will prolly only be seen on a racing track.

For example. My new toyota sequoia is a LOAD. And it has a 10,000lbs towing capacity. It has 13" brakes on the front. And I have never run into brake fade yet.

Oh, and weight can be an issue. I have a MII front end. I had the granda 11" discs on it. I swapped it out for the WW 13" brakes. I weighed both setups. They are within a half a pound. The WW is heavier by a half a pound. The reason being the WW isint dramatically heavier is it uses a separate hub, not cast iron like the granada brakes. So the separate hat and aluminum hub remove some of the weight that an integrated cast iron rotor, hat and hub will have. I imagine the cast rotors for a cobra style brake will be pretty heavy. JR

[Ripped]

Well I bit the bullit (so to speak) and am ordering the shelby 6 piston caliper with the 2 piece 13" rotor.

I can fit the 14" in my rim, however if I decide to change rims in the future, the 13" gives me a few more options.

The 2 piece rotor will have a little less mass than the 1 pc

[sik68]

i went from all drums to 11.75" 4 piston wilwoods in the front and it works great and a manual dual master cylinder.

keep in mind how much tire to road contact you will have. If you over design your brakes for the tire width you will just be wasting the larger diameter brakes, unless you get brake fade in a roadcourse and need the larger diameter for cooling.

also the larger the diameter the heavier the rotor and the slower the accelration of the car. "moment of inertia"

that is why i stayed as small as i could on my brakes. and i am only running a 25.5" tall tire.

but my car is 2700 lbs and i can get away with less braking than a 3400 lb mustang.

:1st: on all counts, spoken from the perspective of brake function rather than just bling. Rotor size has gotten ridiculous in the last couple years.

[Bryce]

JR good point with the lighter hub makes a lighter rotor even if its larger. but the moment of inertia has the term r^4. so the radius has a huge affect on the MOI.

good luck with your purchase and keep us posted on how the install goes.

[ProBell]

Here is my spin on this. I ran C4 Vet brakes for the first few years. They were fine for the street and track until I started running slicks at the track. Then I started to over heat them. I ran a Hawk HP Plus pads on the street with the C4 brakes. When I went to the ZO6 big brakes I put Hawk HP pads on them. The car stooped better with the smaller brakes and HP Plus pads. At the track I run DT 70 and DT 60 pads and the big brakes are awesome. So in short I think a good set of PBR calipers would work fine. You can always change the pads to make adjustments in how they perform, If you plan to track the car hard for extended amounts of time, spend the money and buy all the brake you can afford. Randy

[71duster]

try this dude out,he might be able too help. we are working on a '69 torino project that he is going to help out with. i just got a manual master cyl. for my duster from him,hell of a nice guy!
http://www.doctordiff.com

[JRouche]

:1st: on all counts, spoken from the perspective of brake function rather than just bling. Rotor size has gotten ridiculous in the last couple years.

Yup, Ill get on board with that thought. I agree.. Bling , bling. 14" rotors on a street car?!?!?!? WHAT??? Even 13", on a sub 4000lbs street car.. Tell me why.... It can come down to the bling quota, which really, I get. I dont knock that slant either. As long as a guy isnt looking for more braking performance cause supposedly his 11" brakes arent doing it for him, the stopping part. If a 11" rotor isnt stopping the car on a dime there is a problem with the parts, master cylinder, pads, bleeding, combination of parts? Who knows what, but for a street car an 11" brake rotor up front is PLENTY of whoa.. Im talking about a street car, and yes, I do drive on the street somewhat aggressively at times :) JR

[Ripped]

I'm sure on a drag car, that the rotational mass of the wheels, tires, brakes is going to have a huge impact on the ability to accelerate.

Yes you can make trivial improvements, by changing pads, rotors and decreasing the bore of the m/c
In 1967, I'm sure that the disc brake front, and drum brake rear system installed in the car was state of the art for most manufacturers.

On todays cars it's not.

It's stupid to think that you're going to have a 600hp big block, modern 5 speed transmission, detroit locker, big tires, upgraded suspension, bushings, springs, shocks, and then use a braking system designed in the 1960's.

That's just dumb.

[Yoda4561]

If they lock the tires and don't overheat during their intended use (daily driving, auto-x, road course, etc) then they are big enough. Any larger and it's a matter of taste more than a matter of performance. Once you get to the point where you can get full lockup on your tires then bigger brakes cannot stop the car any quicker. They do look cool, and will handle repeated high speed stops better, but this is more important for show/track cars respectively. For street duty an 11-12 inch rotor would be overkill for most of the cars here, if it sees much track time though 13+ inch brakes do make sense as they are less likely to overheat.

[ProBell]

Well put Yoda4561. Randy

[64Chevelle]

I chose the Baer GT+ 13" rotors with alum center hat. Although my car will be mostly street driven I chose a big rotor since I want to be confident that it brakes when it needs to when I hit the track with it. With brakes it is better to be safe than sorry. Suspension and other parts on the car are (should be) always designed with a safety factor. However, if the car is never to be driven on the track it wouldn't make sense with such a huge safety factor in my case.

[RYU]

I prescribed to the "buy the best brake you can since it's a safety issue afterall" motto. I have sitting in my table the full C6 Z06 kit. All I have to say is the bling factor is nice and all but I didn't think about all the added unsprung weight i'm introducing into the setup. Given I already have 18" wheels (more weight) and now the heavy 14" rotors and calipers (even more weight)... ugh.. it's going to be heavy at each corner. These things are 120lbs for 4 rotors and 4 calipers. Once the rotors wear out i'm definitely going with a two piece. If I had to do it over i'd have gone with perhaps a ~13" Z51 setup for street and some mild track/canyon/autoX use.

[Ripped]

Yeah I denfinitely agree with that thought process.

Last weekend we were involved in a near head on collision (while driving my truck) where an oncoming car lost control, crossed over the centerline of a two lane highway all the way onto our shoulder and back.

Missed the car in front of us by inches, and us by a couple car lengths.


There is absolutely no way the current (front) brakes I have on mustang would give you the control and modulation and stopping power required in a situation like that.

There is no way you just want to be able to "lock up" your brakes in a situation like that.

I am anxiously awaiting my big front brake kit. I am going to spend the time to make sure they work flawlessly.

[Rick Dorion]

Make sure then you have the grippiest tires. Your leg strength will become amazing in those situations!

[joemac]

I haven't heard anyone mention brake fluid yet as an integral part as well as a cheap but effective upgrade. AMSOIL has a synthetic brake fluid. Check out my promotions thread in my signature.

[Ripped]

Make sure then you have the grippiest tires. Your leg strength will become amazing in those situations!

Yeah, you're right. Actually my left foot (clutch) usually hurts after a weekend of driving. It' hurts, but it's a good hurt ;) LOL

[tonykim]

it's important to remember that big brakes will only do so much if your suspension isn't tuned for them.

[GetMore]

One thing that I've read on the Baer site (so take the info for what it's worth) is that being able to lock the brakes in NOT and adequate gage for determining if they are sufficient.
They claim the advantage to the larger disks is the controlability. Since the lever arm is longer it is easier for the rotor to start turning again after lockup, so it is easier to modulate the brakes. If you can modulate the brakes better you can keep the car under control and get more braking done. It'll be easier to apply maximum braking without lockup.

Obviously, there are always tradeoffs and sacrifices to be made. Bigger brakes are better, but weigh more, need larger wheels, and cost more.
The trick, as always, is to find the correct balance for you.

[FirstGenZq8]

application: 92 s10 regular cab. i went from front single piston brakes to C5 dual piston 12.8"ers and LS1 rears. best mod, bar none, i ever did. tobin at kore 3 (http://www.kore3.com/) and ed miller (http://www.flynbye.com/) have kits to get you hooked up. i honestly think anything bigger than C6 Z06 is just for looks and you'll be paying for the brand name more than their performance.

[JRouche]

I haven't heard anyone mention brake fluid yet as an integral part as well as a cheap but effective upgrade. AMSOIL has a synthetic brake fluid. Check out my promotions thread in my signature.

Hahaha.. Sorry Joe but I dont see brake fluid as a upgrade. Amsoil is a fluid manufacturer so they will sight some improvements with marketing. But with brake fluid in the cars that are owned by the folks here most of the off the shelf fluids available are very comparable.

Now.... Not to say amsoil doesnt have an edge on some other products. Mainly the consumable fluids, oils and greases. I did some research on some high pressure greases recently and amsoil's synthetic was up there for the qualities I was looking for.

But for brake fluid I dont see them having an edge on any of the major manufactures for our needs. Definitely not to the point of saying its an upgrade to a brake system. So many other issues with sub-par braking to look at first.

By the time a guy is looking for the best of best from his brakes, like looking at the ideal brake fluid they need to work out every last lil bug on the mechanical side first. And that would include not just the brakes themselves but the overall suspension. Links, brackets, control arms, trailing arms, frame stiffness, fluid lines, tire compound, brake pedal arm (leverage issues) and so many other rooms for improvements.

The off the shelf DOT brake fluids are fine for all the cars here.

But, if we want to talk about consumable fluids, companies like amsoil do have so good products. JR

[joemac]

Hahaha.. Sorry Joe but I dont see brake fluid as a upgrade. Amsoil is a fluid manufacturer so they will sight some improvements with marketing. But with brake fluid in the cars that are owned by the folks here most of the off the shelf fluids available are very comparable.

Now.... Not to say amsoil doesnt have an edge on some other products. Mainly the consumable fluids, oils and greases. I did some research on some high pressure greases recently and amsoil's synthetic was up there for the qualities I was looking for.

But for brake fluid I dont see them having an edge on any of the major manufactures for our needs. Definitely not to the point of saying its an upgrade to a brake system. So many other issues with sub-par braking to look at first.

By the time a guy is looking for the best of best from his brakes, like looking at the ideal brake fluid they need to work out every last lil bug on the mechanical side first. And that would include not just the brakes themselves but the overall suspension. Links, brackets, control arms, trailing arms, frame stiffness, fluid lines, tire compound, brake pedal arm (leverage issues) and so many other rooms for improvements.

The off the shelf DOT brake fluids are fine for all the cars here.

But, if we want to talk about consumable fluids, companies like amsoil do have so good products. JR

The issue is with the fluid boiling as it gets hot. This would never be a problem on the street but for track days or autox I have heard of it happening before. Brake fluid is also very hygroscopic and the more moisture it pulls in the easier it is to boil. Superior fluid is much more stable and less prone to boiling. I won't argue that it's not a big improvement but good fluid is a cheap and easy upgrade. Your big brakes are no good without fluid and why not get premium fluid when you do it.

[68Formula]

The issue is with the fluid boiling as it gets hot. This would never be a problem on the street but for track days or autox I have heard of it happening before. Brake fluid is also very hygroscopic and the more moisture it pulls in the easier it is to boil. Superior fluid is much more stable and less prone to boiling. I won't argue that it's not a big improvement but good fluid is a cheap and easy upgrade. Your big brakes are no good without fluid and why not get premium fluid when you do it.

Exactly! It will help keep the rotors doing their job under high load situations (although it's not going to help with fade due to brake pad temperature).

I have to admit Joe Mac, I was skeptical of your particular claim since you didn't provide any of the performance details of your brand (and you'd tend to be biased). However, I looked up the specs on your DOT4 (my prefered fluid type) https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf4.aspx and looks like it should perform very well. Right now I use the ATE Type200/Superblue: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/BrakeFluidComparison.html.

[JRouche]

The issue is with the fluid boiling as it gets hot. This would never be a problem on the street but for track days or autox I have heard of it happening before. Brake fluid is also very hygroscopic and the more moisture it pulls in the easier it is to boil. Superior fluid is much more stable and less prone to boiling. I won't argue that it's not a big improvement but good fluid is a cheap and easy upgrade. Your big brakes are no good without fluid and why not get premium fluid when you do it.

Yep, yer right, brake fluid IS hygroscopic. Thats what I was kinda leading to. Any and all of the DOT fluids (maybe not silicon) are hygroscopic. But amsoil doesnt prevent any of that, its just as hygroscopic as any of the DOT fluids.

The boiling point of the brake fluid isnt the issue. Its all the moisture thats been sucked up by the fluid. That moisture IS what causes vapors (compressible) during a heated braking run and a weak spongy pedal.

Proper bleeding and fluid control is what can prevent some of the moisture issues, with all brake fluids. Use a new container of fluid when adding fluid, toss the rest out. Bleeding a system, buy new fluid and toss the remainder out, it will be contaminated sitting on the shelf.

Fill your reservoir to the top, limit the air gap. Look at some of the OEM caps. They have a loose flexible gasket in the cap. Its there to limit the air gap. Can moisture from the reservoir migrate to the wheel cylinders where the heat has an effect on the fluid?? Im not sure. But I do know if you bleed the system with old fluid from the reservoir that fluid that has been sitting there gathering moisture may end up in the wheel cylinder.

If I have to bleed the system I will buy two quarter of fluid and flush the entire system. So I know there is new, fresh from the bottle fluid in the entire system. A lil dramatic but its cheap insurance to make sure there is dry fluid at the wheel cylinders.

The way I see it is amsoil has been producing alot of great products, engine oils and greases. So the marketing department said lets market a brake fluid too, why not, we are in the fluids business. So they market the brake fluid. But there really isnt that much, if any improvement over any of the main stream fluids.

They say "High-temperature stability, yet flows easily at low temperatures. Helps keep water in suspension," So they are saying water is an issue also. But come on. Water in suspension?? If there is water in contact with a hot hydraulic fluid its gonna boil off producing steam (vapor) which is compressible.

The problem IMO with brake fluid isint the fluid but the contamination of water. Limit that contamination with new bottles of fluid and minimal air gaps in the reservoir and you will be doing more to combat the effects that boil off have.

The main stream producers of brake fluid do put some chemistry into the product. And quality control is adhered to. I hope :)

And Im not even bashing amsoil, they really do produce some great products. Just trying to see where the issue with brake fluid performance stands. JR

[Bryce]

Yep, yer right, brake fluid IS hygroscopic. Thats what I was kinda leading to. Any and all of the DOT fluids (maybe not silicon) are hygroscopic. But amsoil doesnt prevent any of that, its just as hygroscopic as any of the DOT fluids.

The boiling point of the brake fluid isnt the issue. Its all the moisture thats been sucked up by the fluid. That moisture IS what causes vapors (compressible) during a heated braking run and a weak spongy pedal.

Proper bleeding and fluid control is what can prevent some of the moisture issues, with all brake fluids. Use a new container of fluid when adding fluid, toss the rest out. Bleeding a system, buy new fluid and toss the remainder out, it will be contaminated sitting on the shelf.

Fill your reservoir to the top, limit the air gap. Look at some of the OEM caps. They have a loose flexible gasket in the cap. Its there to limit the air gap. Can moisture from the reservoir migrate to the wheel cylinders where the heat has an effect on the fluid?? Im not sure. But I do know if you bleed the system with old fluid from the reservoir that fluid that has been sitting there gathering moisture may end up in the wheel cylinder.

If I have to bleed the system I will buy two quarter of fluid and flush the entire system. So I know there is new, fresh from the bottle fluid in the entire system. A lil dramatic but its cheap insurance to make sure there is dry fluid at the wheel cylinders.

The way I see it is amsoil has been producing alot of great products, engine oils and greases. So the marketing department said lets market a brake fluid too, why not, we are in the fluids business. So they market the brake fluid. But there really isnt that much, if any improvement over any of the main stream fluids.

They say "High-temperature stability, yet flows easily at low temperatures. Helps keep water in suspension," So they are saying water is an issue also. But come on. Water in suspension?? If there is water in contact with a hot hydraulic fluid its gonna boil off producing steam (vapor) which is compressible.

The problem IMO with brake fluid isint the fluid but the contamination of water. Limit that contamination with new bottles of fluid and minimal air gaps in the reservoir and you will be doing more to combat the effects that boil off have.

The main stream producers of brake fluid do put some chemistry into the product. And quality control is adhered to. I hope :)

And Im not even bashing amsoil, they really do produce some great products. Just trying to see where the issue with brake fluid performance stands. JR

well said. anything over a DOT5 brake fluid is absolutley wrong for a street car as it will absorb more water than a DOT4. the only advantage is the higher temps it can take.

[GetMore]

On the subject of brake fluid, I think there are two ratings, the "wet" and "dry" ratings. Wet takes into account moisture in the fluid.
Some fluids resist boiling, even with moisture, better than others. While flushing the fluid every two years or so and doing everything possible to limit the amount of moisture being absorbed into the system is the first thing you should focus on, using a good fluid is a good idea, just in case.

For track use, and any unusually hard street driving the fluid is another place where you can't skimp. The smaller (more overworked) your brakes are, the more important good fluid can be.

[joemac]

On the subject of brake fluid, I think there are two ratings, the "wet" and "dry" ratings. Wet takes into account moisture in the fluid.
Some fluids resist boiling, even with moisture, better than others. While flushing the fluid every two years or so and doing everything possible to limit the amount of moisture being absorbed into the system is the first thing you should focus on, using a good fluid is a good idea, just in case.

For track use, and any unusually hard street driving the fluid is another place where you can't skimp. The smaller (more overworked) your brakes are, the more important good fluid can be.

All I was trying to say.

[JRouche]

On the subject of brake fluid, I think there are two ratings, the "wet" and "dry" ratings. Wet takes into account moisture in the fluid.
Some fluids resist boiling, even with moisture, better than others.

Yeah, I kinda understand the wet and dry ratings. Whats interesting is most fluids, even the very pricey stuff and the off the shelf stuff has a dry boiling point around 550 degrees. So the dry boiling point isnt an issue. Now the wet boiling point. This is the area where manufactures can shine, maybe in their own mind.

Some claim 300-400 degrees, and higher. Hmmm. Independent testing? No, prolly not. But really this is the only selling point they have to work with cause all the manufactures know the dry boiling point for glycol based fluids are around 500 degrees. So they cant fudge those numbers. Its a standard kinda.

So the only way they can show their product is superior is with the wet numbers. Some voodoo chemistry and secret blends. So they say.

And really, they may be able to encapsulate the water particles so they will be insulated from the 400 degree temps of the brake fluid. I dont know how they do it. But I do know water still boils at 212 degrees at standard atmospheric pressures. So how do they insulate the water particles? Gotta love them chemists...

An independent testing lab with their papers would be a clincher for me. I dont hold much faith in the manufactures lab results. Call me cynical LOL

But no, really, Im sure there are some great brake fluids, that do what they claim. Im not trying to discredit any of them, I cant, I dont have ANY facts to do so.

Im just trying to say with proper handling of the fluid, and the bleeding process to try and keep the moisture out of the system you will be doing more good than you can get from an expensive fluid. There is NO place for an opened bottle of brake fluid in any of our garages. Use what you can and toss the remainder. JR

[joemac]

Yeah, I kinda understand the wet and dry ratings. Whats interesting is most fluids, even the very pricey stuff and the off the shelf stuff has a dry boiling point around 550 degrees. So the dry boiling point isnt an issue. Now the wet boiling point. This is the area where manufactures can shine, maybe in their own mind.

Some claim 300-400 degrees, and higher. Hmmm. Independent testing? No, prolly not. But really this is the only selling point they have to work with cause all the manufactures know the dry boiling point for glycol based fluids are around 500 degrees. So they cant fudge those numbers. Its a standard kinda.

So the only way they can show their product is superior is with the wet numbers. Some voodoo chemistry and secret blends. So they say.

And really, they may be able to encapsulate the water particles so they will be insulated from the 400 degree temps of the brake fluid. I dont know how they do it. But I do know water still boils at 212 degrees at standard atmospheric pressures. So how do they insulate the water particles? Gotta love them chemists...

An independent testing lab with their papers would be a clincher for me. I dont hold much faith in the manufactures lab results. Call me cynical LOL

But no, really, Im sure there are some great brake fluids, that do what they claim. Im not trying to discredit any of them, I cant, I dont have ANY facts to do so.

Im just trying to say with proper handling of the fluid, and the bleeding process to try and keep the moisture out of the system you will be doing more good than you can get from an expensive fluid. There is NO place for an opened bottle of brake fluid in any of our garages. Use what you can and toss the remainder. JR

Hopefully this will put the brake fluid discussion to rest.

[JRouche]

Hopefully this will put the brake fluid discussion to rest.

:) Rest, as in stop, as in good stopping, good brakes. Thanks for all your info!!! Oh, I need to order a quart of amsoil brake fluid by the way :) The salad oil I was using aint cutting it. JR

[joemac]

No, as in we have beat this dead horse to no recognition and I'm sure everyone is sick of us talking about brake fluid.

[Dr.Corvette]

While on the subject of brake fluid, some interesting reading.http://brakefluidtest.com/news/articles/new-brake-fluid-test-puts.shtml
What do you think?

[joemac]

That was interesting reading. Without doing a bunch of research I would tend to agree with it. It challenges my conventional thinking but it seems like there is a rhyme and reason which makes more sense to me than just what I've heard or been taught. I might order a couple of strips and check mine.

[CarlC]

So what if the car does not have ABS? Then the strip test confirms what, a higher tendancy for corrosion? Without knowing their testing methods and data I'm not biting.

[JRouche]

No, as in we have beat this dead horse to no recognition and I'm sure everyone is sick of us talking about brake fluid.

No, I know. I was just trying to lighten it up a bit. JR

[D Impala95]

Another thing along thses lines is container material. I use ATE 200/Super Blue and it comes in metal containers. I was told that metal/steel is more resistant than plastic to moisture penetration.

[6'9"Witha69]

So what if the car does not have ABS? Then the strip test confirms what, a higher tendancy for corrosion? Without knowing their testing methods and data I'm not biting.
+1 for logic and reasoning!

[MonzaRacer]

OK as for the Brake strip test I have 2 bottles in my tool box at work, and a Phoenix Injector is one of my favorite tools. I can flush a brake system in 10 to 15 minutes and eliminate any air in system too.
I also have only had to send 3 cars in last 15 yrs since buying my first one.
On cars with X system(rf to lr and so on ) open one end, hook to other end and 5 to 10 pushes and tada nearly done, close one end and 3 or 4 more pumps, 1/2 done. I do other side then use my old Phoenix injector to suck out all old fluid in master cylinder and Im done.
Case in point when I worked for Firestone we had cute little Chinese college student came in with early 2000 Taurus and absolutely horrible brakes,I tested with strip dip and even with old strips the purple was so bad it almost looked black, well too close to closing so we had her come back in on Saturday(this was Thursday, Im off on Friday) she comes in, I flush brakes, and retest drive and did complete inspection and brakes were fine flush fixed issue and she was very pleased. I prefer Dot 4 brake fluid with high boiling point, synthetic, hmmm never got the real info on difference between synthetic an non synthetic brake fluid, but I do understand synthetic is considered an engineered molecule over an overtly refined one, with engineered properties making it more stable.
Brake fluid does absorb moisture and breaks it down so the water cant sit in one spot, and for absorbing air it gets worse as moisture content goes up but as one goes up so does other and the additives that resist rust and corrosion and boiling and maintain seal elasticity break down, similar to antifreeze additives "wearing out".
its simply chemicals that neutralize bad things and after a period of time they are depleated, hence you get no protection agianst corrosion or boiling under higher heat.