View Full Version : Power Steering Heat Issue???
malibujason79
08-16-2009, 06:29 AM
Had the car out yesterday for a cruise around town and the outside temp was in the upper 80' to lower 90's. I drove around town then hopped on the freeway, then I got off on a back country road, about a 25 min. drive at this point. Once I got out on the counrty road I got on it and did some 6k rpm shifts. By the time I got to the end of that road ( aprox 3 miles ) I had little to no power steering. My house was only a mile or so from that point so I just drove the car home. When I pulled into the drive way my car was at 180 degrees, I grabed a thermometer and the power steering fluid was 160 degrees. After the car sat a couple hours I fired it up and went for a ride around the block, the steering was alittle tight at first but felt normal after a minute or two of driving. I have an AGR quick ratio box and one of there pumps as well with redline power steering fluid. My car did the same thing several years ago when I was running all stock parts, so thats why I went to an after market set-up. Is this more of a heat or rpm issue?
Sorry to run on but I wanted to give as much detail as I could.
GetMore
08-16-2009, 07:43 AM
I'm going to guess that it's an aeration issue. If the PS fluid was 160 then it really didn't get all that hot.
megaladon6
08-16-2009, 07:58 AM
was the reservoir filled and did it have any bubbles in it?
MrQuick
08-16-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm going to guess that it's an aeration issue. If the PS fluid was 160 then it really didn't get all that hot.
Thats what I think also...belt slippage? A sucking leak?
malibujason79
08-16-2009, 05:12 PM
If the car sits in one spot for a week or so, I do notice a small drop of fluid on the ground, smaller than a dime. The leak come from where the pump mounts into the reservoir, not the lines. There was no bubbles in the reservoir when I checked the temp, and the fluid color is red and looks like I just put it in there. The fluid level was just a hair under the hot level mark. If it was a belt slip, the steering would have been ok once I went back to a cruise speed correct?
MrQuick
08-16-2009, 08:11 PM
If the car sits in one spot for a week or so, I do notice a small drop of fluid on the ground, smaller than a dime. The leak come from where the pump mounts into the reservoir, not the lines. There was no bubbles in the reservoir when I checked the temp, and the fluid color is red and looks like I just put it in there. The fluid level was just a hair under the hot level mark. If it was a belt slip, the steering would have been ok once I went back to a cruise speed correct?
That might be it. If its leaking its a good bet to say it will be injesting air.
With the belt if it slipped you might get an air pocket.
Could also be a regulator issue.
Are you using the same pulley from your old set up?
...and the fluid color is red and looks like I just put it in there...
Red is usually ATF. If that is what was used I'd drain and flush it and put GM power steering fluid in. P/S fluid is usually clear to a light tan in color.
Bob
malibujason79
08-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Red is usually ATF. If that is what was used I'd drain and flush it and put GM power steering fluid in. P/S fluid is usually clear to a light tan in color.
Bob
Its redline power steering fluid, not ATF.
MrQuick, It is the same pulley that I had used with my old set-up, its alittle over 6" in diameter. I thought if I went to alittle bigger pulley to underdrive it some that may help but not having much luck finding a larger pulley.
I called AGR today, talked with there tech suport and the guy I spoke with seems to think there is some dirt in the fluid causing this issue. He said I should disconnect the pressure hose, drain all the fluid and check to make sure the control valve moves freely through the bore. He also said that 160 degrees is alittle hot and they like to see it running around 140-145 degrees but doesn't feel a cooler is needed yet. This would be a good time to address the small leak issue as well, so I may look into buying a new reservoir.
When I put this together I was very thorough and made sure everything was clean. Does AGR tech support sound correct?
Its redline power steering fluid, not ATF.
MrQuick, It is the same pulley that I had used with my old set-up, its alittle over 6" in diameter. I thought if I went to alittle bigger pulley to underdrive it some that may help but not having much luck finding a larger pulley.
I called AGR today, talked with there tech suport and the guy I spoke with seems to think there is some dirt in the fluid causing this issue. He said I should disconnect the pressure hose, drain all the fluid and check to make sure the control valve moves freely through the bore. He also said that 160 degrees is alittle hot and they like to see it running around 140-145 degrees but doesn't feel a cooler is needed yet. This would be a good time to address the small leak issue as well, so I may look into buying a new reservoir.
When I put this together I was very thorough and made sure everything was clean. Does AGR tech support sound correct?
Yep, you mentioned that in the first post. Just don't remember these things over time.
I'm not sure about a 'little' dirt causing the issue. P/S pressure reach 1200 psi (maybe 1400 psi?). And the orifices in the control valves are not that small. I can't see dirt being an issue with the pressures involved along with everything being replaced.
Just to double check: you went from a stock system to another complete system: pump, lines, reservoir, and box; and it does the same thing now as it did before? (the lack of P/S after some spirited driving).
Bob
malibujason79
08-17-2009, 06:15 PM
I reused the reservoir, lines (which were brand new) and pulley. The reservoir and lines were cleaned out very well before I reused them though. To me it seems to be a heat or rpm issue.
TPI Monte SS
08-17-2009, 08:27 PM
If it's a heat issue, you could try using this p/s cooler off a 1989 F-body - Edelmann P/N 91959. Here's a pic of it installed on my Monte -
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/88SS_steering_cooler2-1.jpg
Sorry, ignore the sloppy fan wire harness, I've cleaned it up since then. :)
ks71z28
08-18-2009, 08:16 AM
I autocross a lot, and with slicks, which is as hard of abuse a power steering set up will ever see. I use an old IROC box, and the rest is stock parts, and Valvoline synthetic fluid. My pump leaks a bit where it goes in the houseing as well, but only after it is run hard. For goodness sakes, but a cooler on there. If a Ford Taurus has a cooler than so should your car. I believe it is RPM that cuses the issues more than anything. I havent found any underdrive V belt pulleys as of yet, but since adding the cooler I have been pretty much ok. I was told by LEE to add a 4" piece of pipe on the resevour to add capacity, which cools. Don't overthing this, add a cooler and go on with your busines.
68sixspeed
08-18-2009, 05:50 PM
at 160 it is not overheating, and I'm a big proponent of ps coolers. Deep into the 200's is getting too hot. Track days on the vette w/o the z06 cooler got it to 270 and power steering started going out the last few laps. I'd vote with something sticking and/or aeration.
malibujason79
08-18-2009, 06:13 PM
I'm running a serpentine set-up off a 93 caprice police car, so I would need a pulley to fit that. Adding a 4" piece of pipe is a good idea as well, ive had a custom hose made and its really short for a clean look. Ive replaced the o-rings before in hopes of sealing up that small leak with no luck, what else car be done to seal things up?
ks71z28
08-18-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm running a serpentine set-up off a 93 caprice police car, so I would need a pulley to fit that. Adding a 4" piece of pipe is a good idea as well, ive had a custom hose made and its really short for a clean look. Ive replaced the o-rings before in hopes of sealing up that small leak with no luck, what else car be done to seal things up?
for the pulley likely you will need to change the crank pulley to underdrive it, look into a f-body underdrive set up, 20% should work, without killing everything else. As for leaks, well that is why the o-rings are there, if that doesn't work...... But try the cooler, I got a 10" 2 pass little cooler off something at the junk yard, it has helped, but flush or drain the system and try again. Many have had good luck with stock style stuff, and mine is rebuilt parts store stuff on my track car, drips a quarter size drop every time I drive it, but that is recent, been on the car for 15 years!
silver69camaro
08-19-2009, 05:11 AM
If a Ford Taurus has a cooler than so should your car.
It really is more complicated than that...
BonzoHansen
08-19-2009, 06:35 PM
If it's a heat issue, you could try using this p/s cooler off a 1989 F-body - Edelmann P/N 91959. Here's a pic of it installed on my Monte -
I have one of those on my 2nd gen. It came with the WS6 box so I figure WTH.
I also installed a magnfine filter inline. I read about them here, again I figured it would not hurt. Rockauto carries them.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/th_IMG_1248s-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/My77Z28/?action=view¤t=IMG_1248s.jpg)
Randy67
08-20-2009, 08:29 AM
Something like this looks like it would help quite a bit, at least on a remote reservoir setup.
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=625,587_4583&action=product
silver69camaro
08-20-2009, 08:52 AM
Instead of adding all sorts of filters, coolers, etc (which all add fluid restriction BTW), why not just install a good pump and be done with it?
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