View Full Version : Guess this company didn't want my money
OK rant time. I'm not naming names but it will be very easy to narrow it down to who I'm talking about because there's only two companies selling these parts in the entire country.
Here's the deal. We are starting to gather parts for a build up of a 73 vette. We are using parts we have laying around basically. The LS1 out of our wrecked 02 vette and a Tremec 5 speed we had from another project. I don't want to use an old school 168 tooth bell housing simply because I don't have one and because I can use a different one. So I call up company A who I prefer. I want an LSx bell housing and hydraulic throwout bearing for the front of the Tremec. "Sorry, we don't sell parts" is the response. Wait, what?! I can only get these parts in a kit. Never mind that they are optional parts that cost extra if you buy a kit. They even told me to try company B. Well, I prefer your parts. After having talked with the tech, not sales, guy once before and him telling me the difference between the parts, I was convinced company A had the superior product. "Can't help you. I'm sorry". This is ludicrous. How hard is it to slap my name on an f-ing box with the part in it and say that will be x dollars. These parts are optional to the kits. They should have them sitting on a shelf ready to sale to that random person who wants them for their swap kit. So what's so damn different about selling it to a random person who needs one? It would be extremely rare for me to ever do that to a customer of mine. Especially when it's a part that is being made either by me or for my company.
Think about it this way if you still think I'm crazy. You buy a 5 speed kit to put behind your 350 powered 69 camaro that's got a mechanical clutch linkage working that Muncie 4 speed. You're keeping your 350 SBC. Everything's fantastic and the kit is top notch. Two years later, you decide you want an LSx and a hydraulic clutch. How pi$$ed would you be to have the company tell you, "Sorry. We don't sell parts"? I guess they want you to buy a whole new kit this time checking off those optional items that you should have known you would eventually need two years later.
Must be nice to not need someone's money. Glad business is going great for these guys. I really am because I trully prefer them over company B and think they have a superior product. Oh well, guess company B will take my money....I hope.
Rant off. I'm going back into the shop. I've got my Kore 3 setup to finish.
69LT1Nova
08-11-2009, 11:19 AM
Simple as this: they can't rape you for every penny by selling parts. They make money by selling kits. I've dealt with the company I believe you are referring to. Complete d!cks on the phone and e-mail, but sell quality stuff. Guess their $h!t doesn't stink...
ProdigyCustoms
08-11-2009, 12:04 PM
They are just trying to prevent others from making kits.
Restomod
08-11-2009, 12:05 PM
If its the same company I bought my TKO from they are SLOW, EXPENSIVE, and they want to charge you $300 to keep you from canciling an order!! Its not MD.....................
jwn68
08-14-2009, 01:49 PM
It's sad when a company thinks they are to big to help the ones that made them, the customer.........
Vegas69
08-14-2009, 01:56 PM
How many threads can one company have locked in a week. LOL
Mr.VENGEANCE
08-14-2009, 02:25 PM
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((( yea bleep them muthableepas.. )))
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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/r2d2-1.jpg
69LT1Nova
08-14-2009, 02:26 PM
How many threads can one company have locked in a week. LOL
:lol::lmao:
Now THAT was funny.
I left names out simply because I approached them as a rep of my shop. I said nothing about this place or anything beyond this is so and so with so and so I need a couple parts. Funny thing is, I bet it is not the place you guys think it is.
Company B got my money. The person I spoke with even seemed surprised when I asked if it was a problem that I needed the bell housing. Sucks for company A. I still believe their product is better and their name will be no where in sight on the magazine coverage this car will get. They won't be mentioned by all the people at the shows that will see this car either.
Damn True
08-14-2009, 05:52 PM
Wow, that's surprising.
I mean, doing so turns away all of their customers who may be looking for replacement parts if something breaks, or just consumables like a clutch.
....and the margin on small parts is HUGE. Silly move. I can't help but wonder though if you got some new employee or a fill-in from another part of the company that maybe didn't know what he was talking about.
eddiep
08-14-2009, 07:12 PM
Next time see if Quicktime makes one for your application (I'm sure they do for an LSx to Tremec 5 speed) ... IMO, their bellhousings are as good as you'll ever find, and the customer service is awesome.
Edward Pylant
You know I was just talking with someone about QT's LSx to ZF 6 speed bell housing before I tried getting the LSx bell housing from company A. I completely didn't even think of them. I'll have to remember them next time though. Good idea Edward
Vegas69
08-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Is it really that hard to piece together a kit? I bought my own bellhousing, clutch, flywheel, z bar, clutch fork, ??
No. I just didn't want to use an old school 168 tooth bell housing. I am already piecing together the rest of the kit to make it work. The body is no where near the frame so we are just working on getting the drive line mocked up. I already designed the parts needed to bolt and LSx into a C2/3 vette including the headers so I know it all fits, lol. I'm just going to start running fuel lines and all the other stuff while I can get to them. The brake lines and fuel lines are sandwiched in between the body and frame on C2/3 vettes. Other parts like the hydraulic clutch will have to wait til the body is on for fitment and because I'm going to hard line the clutch line into the tunnel area before going with a flex line. I think that will look much cleaner than a stainless braided line.
Steve1968LS2
08-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Wow, that's surprising.
I mean, doing so turns away all of their customers who may be looking for replacement parts if something breaks, or just consumables like a clutch.
....and the margin on small parts is HUGE. Silly move. I can't help but wonder though if you got some new employee or a fill-in from another part of the company that maybe didn't know what he was talking about.
I've heard of this before.. here's the senario they are trying to avoid (I've seen this with other "kit" companies).
You buy a second hand trans.. maybe a few other parts. then you buy a couple of parts from them.
Then stuff doesn't fit and you call thier tech line (sometimes over and over again).. or you complain that their parts don't fit when it could be the fault of one of the other parts you bought. So, they prefer to sell just kits.
Did you explain that you bought your original kit from them and was just looking to upgrade?
Also, if you want a bellhousing then just go to Quicktime.. they have top notch stuff.
Steve1968LS2
08-14-2009, 07:29 PM
Next time see if Quicktime makes one for your application (I'm sure they do for an LSx to Tremec 5 speed) ... IMO, their bellhousings are as good as you'll ever find, and the customer service is awesome.
Edward Pylant
I second this opinion...
I didn't tell the sales guy anything other than I want their bell housing. I'm using an older Tremec 3550 but the bolt pattern si the same. When I talked with their tech guy earlier, he said everything will be fine in those regards. I have other items to address with the trans I am using as it is not modified for the C3. The bell housing was a non-issue.
I can understand what you're saying Steve and it's a valid point. However, he flat out refused to sell me any parts when all I did was ask for the specific parts and nothing else. He seemed astonished that I wouldn't understand that as being acceptable. What I still would like to know is what his response would be to a person that could easily find them self in my hypothetical situation. We all know that story happens all the time. I'd be furious if the company refused to sell me the upgrade/swap parts even after having a bought a kit from them how ever long before.
formula
08-14-2009, 08:16 PM
i felt like I knew exactly who the companies were, but once you said that it probably wasn't who we were thinking of, I began to question myself...
regardless, I will say this: no matter who you're working with, no matter what field you're in, you will find companies who are amazing and companies who...aren't. I've been stung by two different companies, and stung hard, but I've also had the pleasure of working with some of the best guys out there--prodigy, mcleod, wilwood, airride, forgeline, and many others--and these guys really make it up for me.
don't get yourself down--just use the other guys!
Damn True
08-14-2009, 09:12 PM
I've heard of this before.. here's the senario they are trying to avoid (I've seen this with other "kit" companies).
You buy a second hand trans.. maybe a few other parts. then you buy a couple of parts from them.
Then stuff doesn't fit and you call thier tech line (sometimes over and over again).. or you complain that their parts don't fit when it could be the fault of one of the other parts you bought. So, they prefer to sell just kits.
If THAT is the reason then it's a total cop-out.
If you have 1/2-competent inside sales people that scenario shouldn't be a problem.
If you hire "order-takers" then it is.
Steve1968LS2
08-14-2009, 09:53 PM
If THAT is the reason then it's a total cop-out.
If you have 1/2-competent inside sales people that scenario shouldn't be a problem.
If you hire "order-takers" then it is.
Hey, don't kill the messenger.. that's just the scenario I've heard... I'm not about to tell people how to do business.
I guess this company just chooses to sell complete kits. Hell, I'm not even sure which company the OP is refering to.
ProdigyCustoms
08-15-2009, 04:41 AM
I too do not know who the company is, but I understand the business. Believe me when I tell you it is to prevent others from being able to make kits to compete with them. If someone gets ahold of their propritary part, anyone can buy one of those, gather the other readily available pieces, and have the exact same kit. And most likely sell the kit for less money and still make a profit.
There are many companies that have developed products that are theirs and theirs only, and you can only get those parts if you buy everything from them. Many conpanies parts will only fit their other components. If you buy one component, you have to buy a dozen others to make a complete assembly.
TnBlkC230WZ
08-15-2009, 08:41 AM
I have an idea how the company is. Let me though another thought out there
Many times resellers have contracts with there suppliers that stipulate how parts may be used or sold. The company your attempted to buy it from may be only able to sell the components in their kit.
It could also be they don't have the capacity to manufacture in the volume necessary for individual sales.
Safeguarding their intellectual property doesn't make sense. All you have to do is buy the kit and you have everything needed to copy. This is what patents are for.
KEISLER
08-15-2009, 09:53 AM
OK rant time. I'm not naming names but it will be very easy to narrow it down to who I'm talking about because there's only two companies selling these parts in the entire country.,..<snip>
Trey,
Just for the record, this is NOT Keisler. I don't know or care to know who it is.
We sell the LSx bell kit seperately, as well as the hydraulic kit for the Tremecs. We sell the same stuff for Muncie 4-speed also. (most of the stuff is on our ebay store).
Shafi
KEISLER
08-15-2009, 09:57 AM
How many threads can one company have locked in a week. LOL
LOL, I know the ones you are talking about. sad
KEISLER
08-15-2009, 10:00 AM
I have an idea how the company is. Let me though another thought out there
Many times resellers have contracts with there suppliers that stipulate how parts may be used or sold. The company your attempted to buy it from may be only able to sell the components in their kit.
It could also be they don't have the capacity to manufacture in the volume necessary for individual sales.
Safeguarding their intellectual property doesn't make sense. All you have to do is buy the kit and you have everything needed to copy. This is what patents are for.
Dave,
I disagree, the best way to protect your stuff is your reputation. Any chinese knock off can dupe parts. It's the assembly of the parts, plus the know-how of how to service it is what makes the difference.
Patents are what they are - long, expensive, and require lots of legal money to defend.
Chevy Kid
08-15-2009, 12:01 PM
This thread is funny, and sad at the same time. Not to hi jack, but the same thing is going on with me and a 67 Camaro ignition switch plug, Some people have 'em, but no one wants to sell them individually. But they will sell a $450 harness to you though!
Tim
Trey,
Just for the record, this is NOT Keisler. I don't know or care to know who it is.
We sell the LSx bell kit seperately, as well as the hydraulic kit for the Tremecs. We sell the same stuff for Muncie 4-speed also. (most of the stuff is on our ebay store).
Shafi
LOL, you're right owner of company B.
I understand what you mean Frank and that's a very valid concern. However, if that is their reasoning, they are being dumb. As mentioned, just buy the kit and copy it all if you want to. These bell housings are nothing difficult to copy or even design from scratch. If it was something special along the lines of say DSE's swivel link, then protection would be easily understood.
'70rs
08-15-2009, 09:39 PM
I am getting close to making my purchase of the whole kit. Thank you for this thread (seriously, no sarcasm) I know where to go now. Best of luck with your projects!
KeislerGene
08-17-2009, 05:50 AM
LOL, you're right owner of company B.
I understand what you mean Frank and that's a very valid concern. However, if that is their reasoning, they are being dumb. As mentioned, just buy the kit and copy it all if you want to. These bell housings are nothing difficult to copy or even design from scratch. If it was something special along the lines of say DSE's swivel link, then protection would be easily understood.
I know you may like company A product or think its better. I assure you you got the better product.
g6t6o
08-17-2009, 05:58 AM
This thread is funny, and sad at the same time. Not to hi jack, but the same thing is going on with me and a 67 Camaro ignition switch plug, Some people have 'em, but no one wants to sell them individually. But they will sell a $450 harness to you though!
Tim
Ouch!:machine:
trapin
08-17-2009, 07:41 AM
Trey....if you had told Company A that you already had their previous kit and just wanted to upgrade, then they should have sold you the parts after looking up your name in their database to confirm. I could see if there was no record of you where they would be concerned. You're right...you got duped by some c*ck & balls parts salesman on the other end of the line. Next time get a manager involved. In this economy I would sell my customers any damn part they wanted. At least till the economy comes back, then I could go back to being an a$$hole.
yellowrallys
08-17-2009, 08:12 AM
Deja vu here. I tried a few years ago to buy a 621 repo bell from company A, after buying a few transmissions from them seperately. No deal, even though they knew I had bought the trans from them before. So I called company "K" and got my bell housing pronto, which is a really nice part. I do wonder though if both companys are getting the bells from the same supplier.
If I had cared more, I would have hung up and redialed for the manager, Tony. I was shocked at whatt he guy told me so I said screw it.
Steve, they aren't the same. They are produced using two different techniques. Maybe Gene or Shafi will elaborate
KEISLER
08-17-2009, 10:18 AM
If I had cared more, I would have hung up and redialed for the manager, Tony. I was shocked at whatt he guy told me so I said screw it.
Steve, they aren't the same. They are produced using two different techniques. Maybe Gene or Shafi will elaborate
I will try NOT to make this sound like a salespitch :)
Our bell is designed by us, here in the USA. It's tooling is made in the USA, and the castings are made in the USA.
We used the ORIGINAL GM 621 prints to design the new one.
Wall thickness: Our has a 3/16inch wall which is 50% thicker than original.
CNC Machined: It's CNC machined on HAAS machining centers, to high tolerance standards. We SPOT FACE all mounting holes so the bell doesn't walk on you while you are tighting it up.
Engine type: Our bellhousing has additional mounting bosses for the later Vortec and LS engines.
Hydraulic & Mechanical Linkage: we do all of the standard mechanical linkage provisioning, but we also cast the back wall special to gain additional clearance for the hydraulic line.
If you ever have the two side by side, as with most products, the difference is obvious to the naked eye.
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