Car Crafting is DEAD

[jcerioni]

In the past era of car crafting, men where measured by the badges of honor they wore on their bloody knuckles, you did not measure up until you spent the night in a pool of automatic transmission fluid, bench pressing a TH400 transmission into place. The language of this fraternity of outcast gearheads lays heavy with mystifying terms such as "triple duce, "410 posi", "huffer", "juice bottle". This curious breed of heathen was addicted to speed, using their ingenuity and skills to push their chariots to ever-newer heights of speed and power. Individuals thought independently. Avant-Guard was being different, not following the crowd. People had brains not money. A car crafter would get an idea and discuss it with some of his buddies over a few brews in the garage, information and experience would be shared, and the idea would evolve and become reality through the blood and sweat of the car crafter. If you could do it cheaper than the next guy could, every one listened. Our financial resources limited us, not our imagination.

As I browse through the pages of the forum and VB Garage, I get the opposite feeling, people here are limited by their imagination, not their pocket books -- $17,000 crate engines, $40,000 for a reputable body shop to do the chassis and paint. These body shops churn out one car after the other, all looking pretty much the same. When I ask some one about their car, I get no answer. It makes me think, they don't even understand the question, more or less capable of giving me back an informative answer. I get the feeling that Car Crafting has morphed into Muscle Car Consumerism. There is no honor in throwing $70-100 k at a body shop with the specification of "Build me a Cool Car". Then taking pictures of it as is slowly makes it way through the body shop, posting to the forum and saying "Look at my cool car!" If you have that much money, you would be better off buying a new Corvette Z06, Ford GT, or Dodge Viper, or dare I say it -- Mitsubishi EVO. Anyone who thinks that these body shop pro-touring cars would ever be able to match up to a modern performance car is just kidding himself or herself.

[Steve1968LS2]

God.. another one of these "because you don't do it MY way you are less of an enthusiast" type posts..

This is going to sound rude but.. get over yourself..

Different people have different ways of accomplishing the same thing. Some people love old cars but work 10 hours a day and as such can not spend countless hours working on thier dream car. does it mean they are not as passionate? No, they are doing what they can.

Some people (like myself) do all that we can given our resources and talent. I cant paint and I don't have a place to do it.. so I pay a body shop to block and shoot my car.. with my design in the colors I picked. Could I do it myself? sure i could but then again you could kill your own cattle and butcher it yourself.. what honor is there in hiring some meat market guy to do it for you?

Personally I don't see a lot of these $17k crate motors you spoke about on here.. many of the people here have tight budgets and part of the "art" is in getting the best ride possible while staying in that budget. We all have varying degrees of skills on this board, some of us do this for a living while others as a hobby. Some are great fabricators and others are better at coming up with the ideas.

To act like your so much better than someone because you "crafted" you own car (btw.. where is this car??) is rather ignorant and does not speak to the other things intrinsic to a car. These things are measured in the balance of the car and how it flows. If I design a complete car and somebody else builds the car then who's car is it? Who gave the car a "soul"?

Whenever I see these threads I just see someone bitter that someone else had the resources to have a car built in all or part. It is like saying "if you can't do it all yourself then you can't play".. to say they "have no honor" is just rude.

I find your post unimaginative.. It is the same old "well I'm so much better because I built my whole car using only my teeth and a rusty hammer".. It reeks of class envy and of a snobbiness I have never liked in parts of this hobby. It is the same as the restoration guys that look down on the hot rodders because, in thier minds, they screwed up a classic. It's the old car guys that look down on a fixed up newer car because "it's not old enough" (seeming to forget that their "cool" cars were once new also).

I didn't built my PT car to be a better handling car than a new vette.. I just wanted it to handle well. The fun of the car is in driving something that is unlike 99.8% of the cars on the road. I love tinkering with my car and fine tuning it. Most of all I love to drive it. Maybe the car-crafting hobby is dead within you? You have seemed to have lost the basic principal of the hobby.. different people taking different paths to the same end. If you think people need to do it your way to be doing it right then you are just kidding yourself.

By the way.. feel free to ask me any question about my car, betch I know the answer :)

[Nine Ball]

People had brains not money....Our financial resources limited us, not our imagination.

Hmmm, I agree with some of what you are saying, but definitely not all of it. As long as cars have been built, there have always been guys that paid others to build them for them and never got a finger nail dirty. That isn't some new trend, and it surely won't ever change with the times. I'd venture to say that probably half of the enthusiasts out there didn't build their own car. Many of them prefer to buy them already completed and enjoy them immediately. Thats good for guys like us that will sell a completed project.

As for money and financials, thats where you are WAY off. I had to build my first car, my parents couldn't afford to buy me a car. I worked by mowing yards and flipping burgers at McDonalds to buy my first car - a rusted out heap of a '69 Camaro for $1200. I was 15, and spent a year restoring that car on a Mickey D's budget.

fast forward a few years....put myself through college...got the good paying job and own a business. Has my love for cars and building them changed any because I have money now? Nope. I still build them myself and only farm out things that I'm not capable of doing myself (yet). I put a lot of money into them, and they are far nicer than what I owned as a kid. But, does that mean I'm not a "car crafter" because I have a larger budget now? nope.

The bottom line is, don't assume that because some guy isn't a broke ass, he isn't a "car crafter" as you describe.

Tony

[Q ship]

Wow, two posts here and you put up this piece of ****. You've chosen to ignore all the great tech here and get yourself into a snit over-what-the 25% of the people here that have more money than time. Goodbye, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[OHCbird]

1. If you think that there are a bunch of plug-and-play cars here that lack ingenuity, you're completely blind.

2. Ya know- I'm also jealous of some of these younger, successful guys that have put together some great machines; I'd love to do what some of them can do, but I don't have the funds. Do I post up and say they are lesser 'car crafters' because of it? No. I accept where I'm at, and know where I'm going. Maybe you should try a little of the same...

[DarkBuddha]

:wtlw:
I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but rather an acknowledgement of the some of the truth found in your statements which has been hashed and rehashed. Certainly there are some shop built/big coin/more money than time cars among the folks that post here. However, there are lots and lots of enthusiast/home garage built cars too.

You've romanticized the essense of car crafting, but the reality is that car crafting is more complex than your description. Sure, folks pony up cash for good parts which are now plentiful for reasonable cost, but they also craft their own. For example, I bought my subframe connectors from Global West, primarily because it would've cost more for me to buy the suppplies and tools needed to engineer and build 'em myself. However, rather than overpay $135 for a tranny bracket, I built my own for $35.

I still believe there are more of us than there are of them, but I also think there is a place for all of us on the scene.

[SHANE 73Z]

Is Car Crafting Dead?
-Long Live Consumerism, Die Red Neck GearHeads!
-This guy is crying sour grapes - he can't afford a "Cool Car"
-Long Live true Car Crafters, Die Yuppie Scum!
-I am tool and I want to see if I can get flamed on my second post at a forum I VOLUNTARILY JOINED!!!


I dont know why you are here but I can assure you there are more hands-on guys here than you think. I know I may not post a lot but this kind of statement about a group of people I am proud to call myself part of made my blood boil.

I personally work out of a one car garage (with gravel floor) and a gravel driveway. I have personally had to keep the mods to my car at a bolt on level simply because when my car is undriveable for any reason it sits outside.

So lets see....
Tremec install in the gravel (3 times - wrong tranny twice)
Entire interior replace & install in the driveway
Front brake upgrade in the driveway
Shocks & Swaybar install - take a guess
Canton road race pan install - yup driveway too!!!
Up coming 4 wheel disk install - sorry still here

Car Crafting is DEAD.......yeah OK cause working on this thing is like going to an F'in tea party.

Shane

[chicane67]

Go Shane......Go Shane......Go Shane......its your birthday........its your birthday......

Nail on the head brother. This individual just needs to take his misunderstood liberal, confused conservative view point and wake up to the fact that this site is comprised of cats who still bust knuckles on their own rides....... and that it is not comprised of a bunch of checkbook writers, that most assuredly he hangs around.

I feel ya jecrioni, I too have put much thought into exactly what you are pondering. I just threw all that crap out the window and stuck to my guns. I an not a checkbook guy, but their money is green and pays for my parts and tools to make my own junk......

Come out to Black Rock or ElMo. I am sure you will feel reminisent and have your past handed back to you.

But I should warn you, dont bring your prozac induced crying here by posting some crap like that.....especially with it being your second post and all. It is more excepted elsewhere.

Better yet....go post this same thing over on cornercarvers and see how it will light the nights sky. Yeehaw

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't mean that in a patronizing way, but rather an acknowledgement of the some of the truth found in your statements which has been hashed and rehashed. Certainly there are some shop built/big coin/more money than time cars among the folks that post here. However, there are lots and lots of enthusiast/home garage built cars too.

You've romanticized the essense of car crafting, but the reality is that car crafting is more complex than your description. Sure, folks pony up cash for good parts which are now plentiful for reasonable cost, but they also craft their own. For example, I bought my subframe connectors from Global West, primarily because it would've cost more for me to buy the suppplies and tools needed to engineer and build 'em myself. However, rather than overpay $135 for a tranny bracket, I built my own for $35.

I still believe there are more of us than there are of them, but I also think there is a place for all of us on the scene.

This is true.. when I built my 67 Camaro in the 80's there were not that many "off the shelf parts" for it.. well that and I worked at Sears so I had no $$$.. So I made stuff and was creative. Now I can afford to buy better parts and have some work farmed out to specialists but I still agonize over every detail and try to figure out a better way to do something or come up with something innovative.. to me that is what car-crafting is all about.

Oh, I have the knuckle scars to prove I've done my time wrenching stuff together..

Besides, his post is lame since I find this site to have a higher ratio of gearheads than most sites.. Nothing wrong with having a car built to fit your "vision".. It takes all kinds to make the world go round :)

[68BNUT]

I actually thought the first paragraph was pretty cool, I like the analogys. Its too bad he started a flame war on himself, If you look in his VBgarage hes putting Corvette Irs in it, looks like a sweet install. But im with you guys, sure I probably dont have the skills like some of you do or the check book either, but I know im sitting here with por-15 on my arm (for the past week!!) and have been told if I ruin one more pair of good work jeans shes hiding my shop light for a month.

I remember when I was 16 and had a 71 Monte that would do low 12's in the 1/4 but it would splash you in the cab driving in the rain through the floor board!! Well now I can "Kinda afford" some mods and upgrades so heck yeah spend away! And one day I just hope im in good enough shape to buy a 50k car and drive it like I stole it!! Oh and Im sure Ill be trying to get some bolt on mods for it too...

What it comes down too is were all in different stages of our life and car building abilities, sure im glad i get dirty and bust a knuckle or two to make my car better. But I know someone on this board who just bought a new copper camaro and damn if im gonna say hes not a car guy!! actually I want him to be my new best friend and bring it to Texas and give rides!!!!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

What it comes down too is were all in different stages of our life and car building abilities, sure im glad i get dirty and bust a knuckle or two to make my car better. But I know someone on this board who just bought a new copper camaro and damn if im gonna say hes not a car guy!! actually I want him to be my new best friend and bring it to Texas and give rides!!!!!!

I heard that guy is jerk and is just plain trouble.. ;)

I just couldn't get myself to go to "paint prison" again.. Hell, in a year you wont recognize that car :) -- and Texas might work if they run the power tour through there and out west again.. hell, you can even drive it

[68BNUT]

I heard that guy is jerk and is just plain trouble.. ;)

I just couldn't get myself to go to "paint prison" again.. Hell, in a year you wont recognize that car :) -- and Texas might work if they run the power tour through there and out west again.. hell, you can even drive it


I followed all the work you did on your last car and was shocked when you sold it! DRIVE IT!! Ill pass on that I wouldnt want to get drool all over your interior, but id definetly be first in line to check it out!

[RatMalibu]

I'd tend to agree with all these guys......so far I've done everything to my car except sew up the seats....only paid for that because I have no other need for a commercial sewing machine lol

I got the thing in highschool and its taken me 12 years to get it this far while life happened all around me.......if I had the money there are things that I'd do differently, but the way it is....its still mine. Just because someone is not mechanically inclined doesn't mean they should go buy a new Vette....thats not the way things work. imo as long as the person that owns the car ends up with something they can enjoy then thats "Car Crafting" no matter who built it

enough babble....bed time for me

[socalfandabodys]

Im 18 and spent the last three years building my 68 chevelle in the back yard of my parents home. The whole car was stricktly funded by me parting out cars 1 at a time. This helped learn more about my car and at 15 starting a frame off resto can be pretty intimidating. Car Crafting includes everyone from young guys with Subaru STI's to guys driving 32 ford rat rods and everything in between. I get alot of crap for younger guys for driving an old car everyday with no a/c and no radio because I cant afford vintage air yet. I shaved the firewall with a home made plate and tried to make the car handle and look as good as I could on a parts car to parts car basis. I then have the older guys in street rods asking why my daddy was letting me drive his car. These same older guys say that the younger generations arent into american cars anymore. Well I got news for you, my parents werent even born in this country. I am still into building cars. I know how to spot any older and newer car. I still know the beauty of a 6 inline or a 472 cadd engine. I love the way a 302 in a 69 camaro sounds at 6000 rpm. I know how to change points evn though I run an Hei. As soon as I cna afford efi I am getting rid of the edelbrock air gapper and speed demon carb.I only wish I could tell him that I drove to Victoville to trade a chevelle fender and $300 for an old 396 short block. Or the time I sprayed my chassis in the garage with a cheapo spray gun. Or the time I waited for it to rain so I could get half off at ecology so that I could score a set of " Fancy electric bucket seats for $40". Trust me if it werent for guys that Had cars built that cost over six figures I wouldnt have anything to aspire to. So thanks guys for building budget cars and thanks guys for having paying big bucks to have a really awesome show cars built.

[ZZ430]

jcerioni, surely you're not talking about me.....I build my own cars.

I'm also in the business and I cash checks from people who can't, for one reason or the other, build their own.

Generalizations like your above "poll" are not a good way to get welcomed to this board. You really don't know who you're talking to.....and we have no idea who you are either....note that everybody else that replied to this has a completed profile....

[yody]

how about option D;
i am a scumbag and could really use some one on one time with Dr. phill, my car is an extension of my penis and it is very very small, i hate all those guys with really nice cars that can afford to pay people to build them, even though if i had the money i would be in the same boat, my, what a hipocrit i am, oh well i have only posted twice on this board, woops a rerun of Jerry Springer just came on...gotta go.

BTW i have built every single piece of my car on my own, with my own tools in a 2 car garage that isn't even at my house, with all my own money, and i am only 24. Have fun staying stuck in the past, what you described was how i worked when i was 16. that isn't car crafting...that is car-halfassing. Most of the people here are pretty intelligent and detail oriented, not your basic run of the mill backyard mechanics...look at all the professionals and enspiring pros. A lot of people here are innovators and run high end shops. Sorry if we are the cream of the crop and our cars reflect it.

[MrQuick]

Tell you right now, if I had the money, i'd have someone eles build my crap.
If you don't have the knowledge or tools your just a guy that rips into a car,starts to do body work, disassembles the engine, and then lets it sit for years under a gall darn car cover. As long as they are built and enjoyed who fricken cares who builds them. Just do it. doin it!

And Tody, what the hell are you talkin about, you are a little prikk!

[JJSmitches]

I don't agree with his rant, but I think its fun to think up some alternative names for these people he is complaining about. How bout some of these...

Car SHAPER
Car PLANER
Car PLOTTER
Car ARRANGER - my fiance arranges flowers...florist
carIST
Car STYLIST

eh, it made me laugh anyway.

[vanzuuk1]

I love to look at the high dollar cars , usually the owners are just nice guys with nice cars.
I do what i can on my car , anything i cant i have friend who is a gm mechanic do . sometimes i even pay him! I am probably in the lower range of income on this site , but i dont feel any negative vibe from the guys with big coin.
I wish you were there when i had my rims preheating in the kitchen oven so i could paint them in an unheated garage without dripping.
What would really motivate you do announce your presence with those comments? Sometimes we seek attention however we can , hmmm?.
i have to go becuase i didnt build this computer so i am not qualified to enjoy it.

[vanzuuk1]

ps I usually spell better but I am in a rush to go to work so I can pay Foose to build me an entire fleet of cars.

[vanzuuk1]

ps I usually spell better but I am in a rush to go to work so I can pay Foose to build me an entire fleet of cars.

[Bill Howell]

ps I usually spell better but I am in a rush to go to work so I can pay Foose to build me an entire fleet of cars.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[ProdigyCustoms]

QUOTE=jcerioni

Our financial resources limited us, not our imagination.

So your a little short in the pocket? Why be such a hater?

Go to school, Get a job, you too will be able to buy things someday!

Ever here of a Napoleon complex?

When I ask some one about their car, I get no answer. It makes me think, they don't even understand the question, more or less capable of giving me back an informative answer.

If you form you questions with the same flaming attitude that is in your post here, I wonder why no one answers you?


There is no honor in throwing $70-100 k at a body shop with the specification of "Build me a Cool Car". Then taking pictures of it as is slowly makes it way through the body shop, posting to the forum and saying "Look at my cool car!"

So your a little short in the pocket? Why be such a hater?

Go to school, Get a job, you too will be able to buy things someday.

Ever here of a Napoleon complex?

If you have that much money, you would be better off buying a new Corvette Z06, Ford GT, or Dodge Viper, or dare I say it -- Mitsubishi EVO. Anyone who thinks that these body shop pro-touring cars would ever be able to match up to a modern performance car is just kidding himself or herself.[/QUOTE]

Oh man, he is really trying my patience now! I love Vette's and Vipers, but I also know people will trip over new cars on there way over to see a nice classic.

FYI, I am not even sure why I am wasting time doing this reply. I guess since this shot was fired directly at my customers, I feel compelled to validate your post with a reply. My customers are real guy's, with real jobs, and real passion for the hobby. Most of them are simply not capable of doing what they hire us to do, or do not have the time, or simply prefer not to screw with it and instead hire it done. But then again, I am not capable of doing whatever it is they do to fund these dreams, some of these customers have jobs that I really should not attempt myself.

So since they cannot do some of the procedures they hire us to do, they should not be entitled to have a cool ride? What an idiot you are! I am the first one to respect guy's that do it themselves. Why must you disrespect those that cannot?

I wrote these replies in question form, but truly would rather you not answer and just go back to your trailer park where I am sure you are Big MAN ON CAMPUS and tell to someone that is drunk enough to listen.

You probably are as dumb as you sound.

So your a little short in the pocket? Why be such a hater?

Go to school, Get a job, you too will be able to buy things someday!

[myclone]

I think the guy who started this thread mistook this forum for viperowners.com or something similar (nothing personal to anyone thats a viper owner but lets face it there arent a huge amount of viper owners that reguarly tear into their cars with tools in hand).

While there seems to be a poliferation of purchasing complete crate engines in the last few years its not suprising since some guys want to concentrate on the entire car not just blowing the budget on the engine then having to drop it in a bucket of bolts due to lack of funds to do anything else. I build my own engines as well as every other facet of a car because thats the part I enjoy. Whether its the challenge or simply because I want things done the way I like I cant tell you but Mrs myclone and myself have had the discussion about being wealthy what would I do... She laughed at me and said Id still be found slogging through salvage yards looking for treasures and building things myself and she was correct. Granted my garage and tools/equipment would be to envy but I wouldnt have them just for bragging rights either.

That being said I currently work out of a 1 1/2 car garage where I do my own engine building, trans building, suspensions, paint/body work (outside in the summer), electronics (Im an electronic tech by trade), and find this site highly enjoyable and useful. So to say there are a bunch of ppl here with big check books and nothing else is completely mistaken since Ive been a hard core car guy for 20yrs and I know the difference between a guy who has a passion for car crafting but limited resources vs the guy with more check book than brains. I see a lot of passionate car guys here.

My .02

[Nine Ball]

what you described was how i worked when i was 16. that isn't car crafting...that is car-halfassing

HEY now! I take offense to that statement. I prefer to remember myself as a "Bondo Sculptor" at the time. I was a damn artist with tha' mud! HAHA

Anyone else think JCerioni will be able to reply again with his foot being firmly planted into his mouth? Thats only after he pulls his head out of his ass of course.

[boodlefoof]

There is no need to flame. To each his own. Personally, I think that all of the cars on this site are incredible.

If someone wants a killer car but lacks the time, tools, skill, etc to build it himself... what is wrong with paying someone else to build it? Not everyone knows how to design a suspension or can take the time required to custom fabricate and entire car. People have kids and other commitments.

Personally, I'm currently too broke to pay people to build my car and even if I weren't I take a great deal of pride in putting it together myself. I love talking to people and seeing the look on their faces when I tell them that I fabricated some of my own pieces. That said, I bought a crate engine for the car because I didn't have the skill to build my own... and I was cash ahead considering the cost of the parts involved...

My take on it as I said above is "to each his own." If you want to build your entire car from scratch as I enjoy doing, then I applaud you. If I see a cool car, it is a cool car regardless of whether the parts were bought and put on by a shop or whether the owner fabbed and installed them himself.

Cheers guys!

[Andrew McBride]

You know the question I wonder is how a guy can stereotype such a large number of people. I consider myself very smart with my build, which I have to be. A college student trying to build a car, well it is just hard enough paying the bills as it is.


I get the opposite feeling, people here are limited by their imagination -Are you kidding me, there is more imagination in some of these cars even without spending a large amount of money. Honestly I believe that if most of us were dealt with unlimited funds we would be spending more, Correct? Hell I would take my car to Wayne Due tommorow and say build me a top of the line suspension and make sure and take pictures so I can post them to my fellow Pt'ers!! I know seeing some of these premium built cars on this board is an inspiration, especially to a young builder like myself. This is a expensive hobby for sure, and a guy can be smart and "car crafty" especially if he has to be.

Honestly who cares if one guy is dishing out serious money for a car to be built. Just like mentioned from the other Pt'ers not everyone is capable of building a car. I can't paint and don't plan on trying to paint my car but I have found a guy who is willing to teach me and help me out so I can gain more knowledge.
I think you need to step back and re-think your approach towards other car builders. All of us share a great hobby together and are fortunate to be given the opportunity to work on cars. and another thing to consider besides your attitude is changing your username if you plan on sticking around on this board!

[WELTERRACER]

1# Car crafting is far from DEAD.... Ive been building my car for over 9 years... I have rebuilt my own engine (exept machine work) and did 80% of the body work before my buddy painted it for me FOR FREE.. I made my own tranny crossmemeber when i installed my 6 speed and even tune my own carb..

#2 while i am jellous of the guys who have enough money to build 100K machines i dont bitch about it.. I enjoy looking at high dollar cars and they give me ambition to work on my own.. I stick 1-4K dollars into my car as i can afford a year..

#3 There is alot of great people on this site... that now with your ranting will probobly never help you!! SUCKS TO BE YOU!!

#4 While i take extreme pride in knowing i built my car myself, i also feel bad to those who loose at car shows who built there cars themselves to those who paid someone to do the whole job..

Brian

[DarkBuddha]

Something else occurred to me as I was reading this thread. All of the focus of the initial post and all of the replies seem completely focused on building these (our) cars. But isn't that only part of this whole thing? Why do we want our cars to handle well? Or go fast? Or be comfortable? It isn't just because we want to build them that way. We want to drive them that way. And when you're driving it, it doesn't matter who/how/what got it built, it only matters how it performs/works.

Another thing... lets face it, we all know good "car crafters" that couldn't drive for **** other than maybe a smokey burnout, and even then they were probably stupid about it. Burnouts have always been called a badge of honor too, but I don't like stupidity, whether in car building, street racing, or in burnouts.

So is car crafting dead? If it's only about building cars, I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, if all you're concerned with is building the car, you're missing out on the other 99.9% of it. And for the guys who can't/won't build their own cars, I sure as heck hope they are going out and enjoying the driving part.

[Steve Chryssos]

I baked my first pie on Sunday.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Jagarang]

It can't be just me, the first paragraph of this post sounds eerily familiar. I'm nearly positive that I've read it before! If not verbatim, then significantly paraphrased.
I've spent my time getting medical training in ultrasound and xray. My studies continue towards a medical degree.
Just this week I was able to help a family find a cardiac abnormality, in utero using ultrasound, which in turn lead to a genetic evaluation and discovery of a chromosomal abnormality which is incompatible with life. Armed with this knowledge the family will be able to assess their feelings, wants, and desires regarding their baby, a terrible and tragic situation to say the least. Perhaps the originator of this post would like to give my job a try on his next child, OR he could PAY me! It's up to him.

Currently I work 65 hrs/wk and attend night school on average 20 hrs/wk. My wife and three kids don't like my schedule much but all the bills are paid and we are comfortable.

It's taking me 19 years of rock headed stubbornness not to send my project to the junk heap! I paid $500 for it and rebuilt the mechanicals myself the first time. My dream was to do exactly what I am doing to it now. A complete restomodification as good as I can AFFORD. This process began in 1993!

Since I now fall into the category of "check writer", "wanna be car crafter", vapid imagination cretin, and so forth, I'll quote Forest Gump in saying....."That's all I got to say about that"

[MarkM66]

I baked my first pie on Sunday.

Congratulations! Damn that's funny. LOL!

[TonyL]

i have nothing to add that hasnt been screamed yet. so....let me interject some humor.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Steve Chryssos]

Xactly!! Life's too short.

[boodlefoof]

hardy har har har! :D

I bake cookies! ; )

[DarkBuddha]

I baked my first pie on Sunday.
You might've better spent your time getting that hair fixed.
Me --> :poke: <-- you :woot: Of course, I'm one to talk... I'm fat and bald. :crying:

[harshman]

Talk all the trash you want, you will never have the same satisfaction of beating the hell out of your car in the attempts to achieve bitchin’ numbers in your new car with the sticker on the window as I would with my car of which I did most of the work on and fabricated a slew of parts.

Oh and by the way, I’ll bet you money that my car gets more tail than yours!!!








:bsjerk:

[Zefhix]

You know why car crafting isn't dead? It's because all of you were so upset over his post.....passion is the breeding ground for inspiration. I love it.
Who cares if someone puts 100K into their p-t mobile? It's their car and it's one less going to the junkyard. I thank my lucky stars that I'm in love with a hobby that has the ability to inspire others to do the same. People need more passion and creativity in thier lives and the monitary or physical means by which they do so shouldn't ever matter (unless it's illegal of course)

[JimM]

oh boy.... I just joined this forum today (a long time member of team camaro!!) and I only read the first post in this thread... but...

I AM A CAR CRAFTER!!! I don't have a lot of money to spend on my ride, so I spend it where it counts. Quality workmanship and attention to detail is a fine substitute for cubic money. In SIX years of baby steps, the only person other than me to lay a wrench on my car was the guy who aligned the front end, and I woulda done that if he'd let me use his equipment.

This winter, my camaro's getting a ground up nut and bolt level redo including paint, and I'm doing it, and doing it right, in 5 months!

I'll go back in my corner now and read the rest of this, but don't you dare say "car crafting is dead" not ever again! (if you want to meet a bunch of real car crafters, log on to camaros.net)

[Todds69]

Here is my 2 cents worth. Lets all have a beer and forget this guy. :cheers: I believe everybody has an opinion, and has the right to speak it, but be prepaired to answer for it. Now :icon996: lets drink!

[vanzuuk1]

Wow if someone wanted attention , he got it . He is probably on cakebakers.com saying something like "everyone uses electric mixers and ready made decorations.."
waaah...
I notice he dropped his little bomb and then stepped back into the murky shadows.

[dgumoe]

you guys have wasted too much time and energy on this guy. he's obviously one of those people that is always right and noone else is. he probably has never been laid in his life and would rather bitch about what he cant do than be proud of what he can. remember...opinions are like *******s everone has one...and in this case... is one :icon996:

[Bill Howell]

(if you want to meet a bunch of real car crafters, log on to camaros.net)

First, Welcome aboard Jim. Sounds like you are a true car crafter.
Secondly, this Jcerioni says in his bio that he found us over at camaros.net. I wonder if he started the same thread over there?
When I think of cars I feel are at the pinnacle of Pro-Touring, two come to mind- the Mule and now John Parson's II much. Here are two totally different projects, one built by a leader in the field and sold to a true hobbyist. The other being built by the owner, but with the assistance of several engineers that specialize in certain fields. I could never afford either car but certainly appreciate the effort put in both and know that both speak volumes about our sport. I dare say that very few have the expertise and money to built similar cars in their garage, but many use/or will use infomation gained because these two cars were built. Certainly Mark learned from building the mule and hopefully he made a buck or two when Charley aquired it. More power to both of them. How can anyone possibly say anything negative about the Mule even if the builder no longer owns it? John is again stretching the limits of the sport with the help of knowledgeable people that can only help us all sooner or later. Surely Mr. Jcerioni, you are not suggesting that Two Much is not a true car crafter's car since he has enlisted the help of professionals.
I had the opportunity to see Prodigy two weeks ago. It too has features that will blow people's minds when finished. How many hours have Frank and Michael spent on the rearend alone? Most would never consider such a undertaking, but now that someone has, and has done the trial and error thing to make sure it works, I am sure others will hire him to do the same for their car. How can this be a bad thing?
Several of us at some time or another built cars that probably would be scared to drive now because we are older and wiser. In the early 70's we thought the cool thing was to jack up the rear and stuff L 60s under the fenders( well usually they hung out passed the fenders). How safe was that? In the 80's ( and even today) people are cutting springs to lower their car. How dumb is that?
So please, just because I may be able to pay for work now, don't dis me or even suggest that I am no longer a gearhead!
I see in another thread today that is looks like we will be able to buy those new 69 camaro bodies now. I wonder, Mr. Jcerioni, will one of these be any less a true crafter's car just because it started out fresh rather than a rusty heap? Regardless of what they cost, I bet you now it will be less than I had in my 69 by the time I replaced all the sheetmetal. Sure, in the true sense of the word it will never be a 69 but not much of my car is from 69 either.
We welcome all here, but let me make a suggestion to you. Until you have been around awhile and until we know something about you, please refrain from flaming the entire forum. Maybe you did not mean what you said or it came across wrong, but as I am sure you know by now, we take our hobby very serious. We may not always agree on every thing Pro-Touring, but we all come here to either learn from or help others in the sport.
One other observation and I will close. Giving the chance to either buy a $75,000 new car or have someone build me something for the same money, I would probably go with the built car and not the new one. Sure, everything would be new, but so would every other one on the road like it. If you pulled a new Z06 beside the Z069 that Steve is just finishing, which one you think would get more attention? If you are unsure of the answer, maybe Pro-Touring is not where you belong. Anyone with credit can buy a new car. Only hobbist own real cars.

[Roger Poirier]

A car crafter would get an idea and discuss it with some of his buddies over a few brews in the garage, information and experience would be shared, and the idea would evolve and become reality through the blood and sweat of the car crafter. [QUOTE=jcerioni]

Its a different world out there. Most of us are parents, or married couples who both work. Time is short. Family has become a higher concern. Thank goodness for that! Duel incomes allow us to spend more money. The internet allow us to learn more and at quicker pace. The length of the project may take longer and at a higher cost because we are more knowledgable then we were back in our "I know every thing" days. The standard and quality becomes higher.

[QOUTE=jcerioni] There is no honor in throwing $70-100 k at a body shop with the specification of "Build me a Cool Car". Then taking pictures of it as is slowly makes it way through the body shop, posting to the forum and saying "Look at my cool car!" If you have that much money, you would be better off buying a new Corvette Z06, Ford GT, or Dodge Viper, or dare I say it -- Mitsubishi EVO. Anyone who thinks that these body shop pro-touring cars would ever be able to match up to a modern performance car is just kidding himself or herself.

You may categorize me as being one of these people. First it still takes hundreds of hours, in my case well over a 1,000 hours of time doing all the misc work that no one is going to do at a body shop. Detailing etc. Boyd's maybe, however the cost is a lot higher than $70-100 grand. How about that I have had six major surgeries in eight years. I'm disabled. My goal is to walk further each day, Having my car completed, or out source is a necessary task. Have you ever thought of envy? I wish I new how to do body work and paint. I love hearing form the guys on this site that do their own work. I'm in awe of them. And yes I could have a Dodge Viper etc. However there is a history to my car. My teenage years, adulthood, and pretty soon grand children stories to tell. My feeling "to each his own."

[ZZ430]

I hate to prolong the pain of his thread, but he's made 17 posts at camaros.net since 2001. Normally I don't get involved in personal bickering, but since he pissed me off, here are 2 samples:


1."The camaro is an symbol of our masculinity and the tetesterone flowing through our veins. You don't see pictures of skinny guys in speedos leaning over a car on the cover of Hot Rod magazine. All this talk about MY CAMARO has a full blown 502 with ported and deck heads...blah, blah, blah.. really translates into "Mine is bigger than Yours". I guess some of us never really got past adolescense."

2. "Hey, I didn't say I believed the numbers, all I said was "DeskTop Dyno says". I guess you guys with "big bucks" in your "big blocks" get a little defensive -- Long live the mouse!"

[ProdigyCustoms]

As I said................

Ever here of a Napoleon complex?

[jcerioni]

WOW! I think I hit a nerve! The reaction of this post is overwhelming! Why is everyone reacting so defensively with name calling and challenging my manhood? I just wrote my opinion and you know what they say about opions (everyone has got one). Everyones reactions lends truth to what I said.

The majority of you missed the point. If you got money -- great! That is what makes America great! I was talking more to the evolution of the individual, not the car. Adversity builds character -- to overcome adversity builds ingeninuity, knowledge, wisdom and strength. To give someone $100k to build you a car builds nothing except maybe the shop owner's bank account.

[TonyL]

To give someone $100k to build you a car builds nothing except maybe the shop owner's bank account.

really? it builds an awsome car, experiance for all that worked on it at that shop, and insparation to folks like you who cannot afford to pay someone to build one. half of the time during the builds your talking about, parts are made that trickle down to the average consumer. badass pulley systems, wheels, suspension parts, ect. all started on some high dollar SEMA car at one point.

The statement that just because the work wasnt done by the owner lessens the soul of the car is just ignorant, and arrogant.

[Q ship]

Click on "jcerioni"
Click on "view public profile"
Click on "add jcerioni to your ignore list"
Enjoy your newfound freedom from an ignorant troll with nothing to say.

[TonyHuntimer]

Hey J,

What you wrote made it look as though you think all guys who have money but no time to build their own cars, or guys with money who know the job would turn out better if it were done by a professional... are looked down upon by what you call "car crafters."

In my book that's wrong.

Most guys on this forum don't know this, but I crafted my car in a one-car garage, without air tools, loaded to the hilt with crap my wife won't let me get rid of. I have about 1.5 feet to walk around my car. In fact with the door closed, I have an inch behind the car. Before my quaint little garage, I assembled the complete car from a stripped shell...on a patch of dirt next to deer and horses in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Car Crafting is not dead!

...but car crafting is dead to me if it means being a snob, by looking down my big nose at guys who have the money to send their car to shops like Detroit Speed & Engineering and Rad Rides by Troy.

If that's not what you meant...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[TonyL]

you know tony, it was a tossup for me between dynamite monkey or pancake bunny. but now the cycle is complete.

[TonyHuntimer]

:)

Now we have the clown with the pie, the dynomite monkey, and the pancake bunny. Now it's complete.

:bananna2:

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[nancejd]

Personally, I hope this thread just dies, at least unless this guy actually responds to any of this. He really isn't worth any of our time.

[vanzuuk1]

I think anyone with a hundred grand of cash to build a car has probably overcome adversity. The reason people reacted strongly , IMO , was because you seemed to imply a lot of negative things about people who aren't building every single component on their cars . you seemed to say " I have given it a lot of thought , and you all suck " There are so many cool things to see on this site that its odd to find something negative to say and then make sure everyone reads it.

[Larry Callahan]

Well, as fun as it was I think it's time to put this one to sleep. I am closing this thread.

Night all.