Project Quandry

[twfurst]

Has been a very long time since I have posted on here.

I have an '87 Monte SS that I have disassembled completely. I'm talking the frame is completely bare, on jackstands. The interior is in tact, and aside from doors, all panels are removed. I'm starting to think I'm never going to get this thing back together, as time is scarce working 40 a week, three nights a week at school, and a young family to take care of. It's been in it's current state for almost 4 years.

On top of this, the frame is in my garage, the body in my mother's, and other parts in a storage unit. To further compound the situation, my father recently passed, and mom wants the garage cleaned, NOW.

Here is my dilemma:

Around the corner from my job I have found an '80 Malibu for sale. The tag in the window says $1000. Which would seem reasonable at first, until you look under the car and see that the rear frame horns are rotted from where the wheel well starts to the bumper mount. My thought was that if I can get the guy to sell for $500 or $600 I could cut the frame rails off the frame of the Monte and replace them on the 'Bu. I could then sell the Monte body and front clip to a local stock car racer for almost as much as I would pay for the 'Bu.

The rest of the car is very solid. I crawled all around and under it. Have not seen under the hood yet, but believe it to be a V6 car. I'm just concerned that if I do this, I'll end up in the same place I am now, with a disassembled car. I think I can do the rear clip without completely removing the body, anybody ever tackle this before?

I guess I'm looking for some advice, encouragement or flat out don't do it.

Thanks guys.:idea:

[bmjwright]

I'd sell the Monte and all the related parts. $1k for a '80 V6 Malibu w/ frame rust is WAY high...I'd pass.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of extra time, so I'd look for a running car in decent shape. Good Malibu's can still be bought pretty cheap.

[twfurst]

I definitely agree that $1K is too high. I originally looked at it in Feb. when he wanted $1400. My thought was that if I can get it for $500 I can sell the body from the Monte and anything else I don't need and break even on the money side. I have lots of parts for the Monte that'd be useful for the 'Bu. I see your point, about the time though. I'm hesitant to sell the Monte just to sell it though.

[twfurst]

Alright, I talked to the guy. It is a V6 car. Was an old lady's who drove it rarely, the rot is a result of typical New England road salt never being removed. Told him I would think about an offer, he then said he really doesnt want to go below $800. Have to think this over. A lot will depend on if my fiance's father can find someone to buy the Monte body and parts, to offset the cost some. $800 aint much, but the woman will think otherwise.

[deeddude]

The monte carlo and the malibu should be the same frame, no need for the cutting and welding. You could use the monte frame with the malibu body. My experience is if the frame is rotted more than likely so are the rear fenderwells. Good Luck

[twfurst]

I knew the frames were the same. I am trying to avoid disassembling the entire car if i purchase it. Plus the entire SS frame is entirely apart.
Which is why the monte is still not on wheels.

[twfurst]

Well after thinking about it pretty much all night, I am considering go the route that deeddude has suggested. I have all the parts required to get my existing frame on its wheels and ready to accept motor/trans and body. In fact if I can get my brother to give me a hand I may just get started tonight. Will mull it over some more today and make my decision over this weekend I think.

[CRCRFT78]

I say put the Monte back together. You already know what your dealing with since you took it apart. Once you get the frame together and rolling, drop the Monte body back on it and keep moving forward. Swapping frames just might open that can of worms that got you where your at now. Its happened to all of us, you see something else that needs to be fixed and the ball just keeps rolling & rolling & rolling.............! Good luck either way and take lots of pics.

[twfurst]

I thought the same thing. To be honest, I've talked myself into the Malibu cause I want a new start. Everytime I look at the Carlo I get discouraged. I've had no desire to do anything with it. I have to replace the floor in the Carlo, plus, like i said Mom wants her garage back. I don't know if its the right choice, but I think I've made up my mind. Plus I even got the ol' lady on board with the idea this morning. I've checked over this 'Bu three different times now, and all of the body is solid, top to bottom. The only issue is the frame. Not a small issue, but I have another ready to go so to speak. Should have the rolling chassis together tonight. By no means a show car, but it'll give me something for fun.

[CRCRFT78]

Well you sacrifice one g-body to save another. Just remember to take pics for us.

[twfurst]

There will be pics for sure. Last night we got the front suspension cobbled together. Just enough to get the wheels on it. Still trying to remember where I have all the parts.

[twfurst]

Well, the Monte's frame is back on wheels. First time in almost four years. All of the suspension will be removed once more after the body swap, but for now it rolls. Have to go to my storage unit during the daylight and dig out the steering box and a few other frame/suspension parts. Haven't taken any pics today, but will.

[twfurst]

Malibu came to its new home today. Here are some pics as attachments. Could not figure out why the link to my flickr page wouldn't work.

If I didn't already have a frame I would have never picked it up. But everything else is in beautiful shape for 29 years old.

Already bought the set of Energy Suspension body mounts. Hope to swap the frames in about two weeks or so.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[twfurst]

Last night we got the front clip off the Malibu (will post pics when my brother sends them from his camera). Came across something interesting that I didn't think of.

The Monte frame is 2-1/4 inches longer in front of the radiator support. Will be sectioning it down to the correct length once the body has been moved over. Am I the only one that thought that this was a one for one swap?

Other than that, everything came apart very smoothly, nothing broke or stripped. Hope that continues throughout the rest of this project.

[twfurst]

Here are two pics showing the difference in the frames:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3806195390_d6ef30411a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3805376303_61a795671d-1.jpg


Was very obvious once we got the nose off the Malibu. Here are some others post nose removal.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3805375875_4475650aa7-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3805374647_b905c05b2f-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3806192952_38c3ffefac-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3805373863_3450dd2763-1.jpg

[twfurst]

Have made some more progress. With the rear of the frame being rotted out, I kind of expected to run into some body bolt issues back there. Had to cut open two spot in the trunk to grind the bolt plate off.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3859443235_1a97c37db9-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3859443207_813f701a81-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3859443191_6ef1860e25-1.jpg

Also finally got the V6 outta the way so that we can jack the body up and get it on jackstands. Hope this weekend to get that portion taken care of. Its all unbolted, just need to disconnect the brake lines and e-brake cables.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3860229470_89dea4809d-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3859443299_278dd9d906-1.jpg

[deeddude]

Last night we got the front clip off the Malibu (will post pics when my brother sends them from his camera). Came across something interesting that I didn't think of.

The Monte frame is 2-1/4 inches longer in front of the radiator support. Will be sectioning it down to the correct length once the body has been moved over. Am I the only one that thought that this was a one for one swap?

Other than that, everything came apart very smoothly, nothing broke or stripped. Hope that continues throughout the rest of this project.


No, Tom your not the only one who thought that it would work. I've built a number of racecars with these frames and never ran into that problem; I never use the stock core suport and sometimes cut the frame in front of the steering box. Sometimes I got frames that were supposed to be from malibu's. Some guys believed they were lighter and sold them for a few bucks more.

Do you think you could just extend the bumper mounts out or is the core support located further toward the firewall? If you can, I've used rollcage tubing to extend these in the rear, it would work the same in the front. Or instead of sectioning the frames together just build a mount off the frame where you need it and extend the bumper mounts. I've sectioned a few frames behind the cross member and a few fit up perfect and others took a lot of heat and hammers.

[twfurst]

I have come to the conclusion that it will be easiest to remove the 2-1/4 inches from the good frame and weld the bumper mount back on. Instead of cutting the piece off of both frames, I'm going to make some kind of jig off the rotted Malibu frame, and use that to position the mount on the Monte frame. All of the same holes exist, just that the location for the bumper shock is further forward on the Monte frame.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3806195390_d6ef30411a-1.jpg
This pic above is the Monte frame, where the body is headed.

The Pic below is the Malibu frame. You can see how much closer the radiator support mount hole is to the absorber mount.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3805376303_61a795671d-1.jpg

[deeddude]

So the core supports are in the same postion. Hmm.That's even easier. Could you do this without welding? Maybe you could leave about an inch of material on the frame that you could heat, bend up to make a flange, and then cut some holes for the mounts? Even if you cut to much off you could use the shims from the donor car to move the bumper out. I think their 1/8" thick.

I love both of those body styles, but I allways liked the malibu just a little bit more. Keep the updates coming. Good Luck.

[twfurst]

I hadn't even considered that option. I will have to take a look tonight when I get home. I don't have a torch to generate the heat, but what I was thinking too was that rather that weld a cutoff portion back on, simply create a flange out of angle stock and weld that on in the correct position to locate the absorber. We'll see.

[twfurst]

Got some actual work done yesterday. Was a good day for it, nothing but rain. I got the body up off the frame and on stands. It's not high enough to roll the frame out from under it yet, but only a couple more inches.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3870780098_c67b5fc4e9-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3870780126_b88195f930-1.jpg

Here are a few pics showing the cancer on the rear of the frame.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3870780148_8be9ffcff3-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3870780162_8b238061e4-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/3870780180_dcdcef9a6d-1.jpg

Probably won't get too much done again until maybe Thursday. Wife wants to go to the Brooklyn Fair today, bowling tonight and school starts tomorrow. We'll see.

[twfurst]

Got a lot done yesterday. We got the body up high enough to get the frame out. Had to take the rear tires off and drag it on the shock mounts. Will take pics tomorrow after I get home from work (yeah, work on what is supposed to be a three day weekend).

Hope to get the good frame under the body between Sunday and Monday, we'll see if it happens.

[twfurst]

Well, I haven't gotten any pics taken yet. But I have made some progress again. The good frame is under the car and hope to have it bolted down before the end of tomorrow. Nice having use of the other half of the garage again.

[Jim Nilsen]

Well, I haven't gotten any pics taken yet. But I have made some progress again. The good frame is under the car and hope to have it bolted down before the end of tomorrow. Nice having use of the other half of the garage again.

That brings back memories for me, the extra space just opens up and then........... you have no more room again than you had before,lol.

it's a good feeling isn't it.

[twfurst]

Haven't posted in a while. Been home sick all week, so I wandered out to the garage and took some pics.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/3947922924_ddf4835381-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/3947922924_ddf4835381-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/3947142869_4c5f5f1134-1.jpg

So you can see that the body is now on its new frame. Was not as bad as I thought it would be. Have some work to do still, not all the body mounts are in. Driver's front needs some shims, and I think I need to get some longer bolts for the other mounts.

Brought the 383 to my garage from my mother's too. So I have plenty to do. Hope to get the front bumper mounts welded back on this weekend.

[twfurst]

Has been quite some time since I posted anything on here. I got the motor in the car during the winter months. But now am in the process of converting it to a 4 speed. I took my dads vette for a ride last weekend, and remembered how much more fun a V8 is when rowing the gears yourself.

Getting the rearend in order to be installed for the last time. Replaced the bearings and all the seals. Gave it a coat of rustoleum undercoat.

Hoping to have it running before summer is over, and will post some pics soon.

[twfurst]

No pics yet, the camera is not being cooperative. Got a four speed and all the essentials for that. Also got the pedal assembly and a set of headers that will work with the clutch linkage.

Right now in the process of replacing the brake lines to the rear brakes. Decided to use Earls braided lines at the rear calipers, just seemed easier than hunting for the correct metric to SAE line adapters. Plus the braided line looks nicer I think. Hope to get the line run from the rear axle to the MC tonight and install the adjustable prop valve too.

On Friday I should receive my new motor mounts. The Patriot headers I'm using say they require "early style" motor mounts. So I got the block side Energy Suspension pieces from Summit the other day and found the frame side pieces for 68-72 chevelle on eBay for $30. Hope to get that all sorted out over the weekend and get the motor/trans back in so I can get the hole cut in the floor for the shifter.

Oh yeah, got my gauge panel all fabbed up and assembled. Just have to wire it and do the final install on that too. Also replaced the fuel line with a 3/8 aluminum one. All in all going has been slow, but its going. Hopin for end of august to hear it fire up. Keepin the fingers crossed.

[twfurst]

When I got home last night, decided to see just how much interference there was between the new headers and the existing motor mounts that I had on the block. Got both headers to mount to the heads, and there is minimal interference on the drivers side. I could slide a piece of thin cardboard through between the tube and the mount. Plan on grinding back the motor mount a little. I don't think this should be a problem, as it is no where near the bolt area. Now just have to send the motor mounts back to Summit, probably use the money to get the header wrap kit. Should be a pretty good weekend.:fingersx:

[NOT A TA]

Sounds like you're steadily moving along Tom which is a good thing! Did ya get moms garage cleaned out and part out the Monte for some project $ ? Post up some pics of your gauge panel when you can. I'm looking for ideas for one to build for my 81 bu.

[twfurst]

Yeah, got the Monte out of Mom's garage last August or so, very shortly after getting the Malibu. Probably didn't get as much for it as it was worth, but was more of a "get it the hell outta here" sale. Progress has been sorta slow lately. The garage has no insulation, so theres nothing to keep the heat out. With the heat wave that's been goin on here, by the time I get home its miserable to work in there. Hoping to get some work done this weekend.

[twfurst]

Well, this past weekend I got the pedal assembly installed. What a fiasco that was. The set of pedals I ordered had to big of a stud for the booster pushrod to fit onto. I went and got a new dual diaphragm booster, hoping it had a different size stud. No luck there. So I took the original brake pedal and cut the pedal pad down to the same size as the clutch pedal.

After that, the new booster wanted no part of being installed. It looked like the bracket the pedal and booster bolted to was flexing without the booster installed. So I persuaded it with a piece of 2x4 and hammer, went right in, imagine that. But, i was then greeted with the brake pedal laying on the driver's floor, apparently the bolt had not passed thru the pedal, so for the fourth time, I got to remove and install it. Working under the dash is definitely not the easiest of tasks for a 6'5" guy with bad knees.

Got the hole cut in the firewall for the clutch pushrod, as well as bought a new master cylinder, as the old one looked pretty crappy after I got the new booster. Hoping tonight to get the engine and four speed paired together and put back in. Have to get some pics here soon. Workin on the camera issues.

[jackfrost]

what pedals did you use?

[twfurst]

I got them on eBay, place called Muscle Cars Only out of PA. Emailed him to ask if he had sent wrong pedal, or I needed to get a different booster, and he told me he has sold something like 600+ with no issues. Guess I was the first one.

[twfurst]

Got the engine and trans back in last night. Ordered a trans hump for the floor this morning, hope to have it by end of next week. Looking like tonight I'm gonna get to finishing up my gauges, have to do the wiring part now. Hope it turns out to be a good weekend.

[twfurst]

So, this past weekend not much got done. Got the correct tranny mount in and the hole in the floor opened up so i could get the tranny in the right spot. Mounted up all of the clutch linkage and got to the point where I see that the G-body clutch linkage does not work with standard bellhousing and clutch fork. (I had read about this, but guess I had to prove it to myself, I'm stupid like that :screwy:)

So after doing some surfing, and seeing Mr. Anderson's use of a corvette hydraulic setup on his 66 El Camino, I got to thinking.

This morning I ordered a master and slave cylinder for a 1990 S10 with the 4.3 V6. The mounting should be fairly similar on the Malibu to what was done on the S10 for the MC, and I have some ideas kicking around in my head for a mounting solution for the slave cylinder. Ordered them with 3rd day shipping, so hope to have them by Friday, and get to laying them out on Friday night.