Should I go narrow or wide band?

[Larry Callahan]

I am getting close enough on my tune to start setting up a closed loop system. My Electromotive Tec3 will run either a narrow or wide band O2 sensor. I believe the narrow band is more accurate and faster but the wide band can deal with more error.

What would you do? The narrow band if free since I have the stuff. If I go wide band I have to buy a controller and sensor and I could see that being $300 to $400? Ouch!

[slowcamaro]

ngk afx wideband.

[camcojb]

narrow band is almost a waste on a turbo setup; I run a wideband on everything I build if I can.

The narrow band is accurate at or near stoich (14.7:1) and then lost beyond that, at least as compared to a good wideband O2. The wideband will read accurately in the 9 to 16:1 a/f range, and with you likely in the mid 11's a/f-wise at wot, you want (and need) a wideband if given the choice.

Jody

[parsonsj]

What Jody said. Wideband. You'll need to see from 10-16 afr to tune accurately. I wouldn't mind getting 10-17 if that technology becomes available.

jp

[GetMore]

As said, definitely wideband.
I've read through the TEC stuff, and I think they say that they can do a wider range than just 14.7:1 with a narrowband sensor, but I don't know how they do it. I am assuming that they bring it to stoichiometric, and then just calculate from there. It can work, but it'll never be as good as actually reading the actual mixture.

One thing that you can do is use a wideband just for the original tune, and then go back to the narrowband. In this setup it just uses the narrowband sensor to verify that the tables are correct. I don't know how much it can adjust from there.

One little note for you: I have heard that there are some problems getting some wideband setups to work with the TEC unit. For instance, Innovate Technology's LM1 works, but the LC1 supposedly doesn't
From what I've been told it is a matter of the output not matching the table, or something like that. I think it's a matter of the output possibly not following the same graph as the TEC unit expects. I'm really not sure what the issue is, I'm just trying to pass on what I've been told.
I am planning on using a wideband sensor on my setup with a TEC3r. I bought an LM1 a while ago, since I was told it would work and was a good unit, and an excellent value. I just didn't like the fact that I was going to have to mount the ugly box somewhere, and that I would probably have to hide it away where it couldn't be seen, at that. Then they came out with the LC1, which has the controller built into the cable. I thought that was the perfect solution, until one tuner told me he had trouble getting it to work with the TEC. He recommended installing the LM1 for the TEC and using the LC1 with a gauge in the dash, or for a datalogger.
Enough rambling?

[gkring]

How are you tuning now? If you are getting close enough to ask about tuning on the closed loop for cruising I assume someone has already got you 90% there with a wideband. As the other guys are saying the wideband measure the full range and the narrowband just tells you rich or lean, but not how much. The wideband is a must on a turbo setup, especially at your level. What takes me 30 minutes to do with a wideband can take 5 or 6 hours with a conventional 02 sensor. Your tec-3 should have a wideband input that makes tuning that much easier.

[Larry Callahan]

Thanks for the input guys. I have been using this to get close.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/mt215102-1.jpg




I guess I will go wide band then. Anyone ever use this? It's what Electromotive has had good luck with.

http://www.plxdevices.com/wideband.html

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[gkring]

Well, if you already have a wideband and the car is pretty well tuned you don't have to buy another just to hook it up to the TEC3. if you are just talking turning on closed loop for cruising mileage then the narrow band is fine. The wideband hooked into the TEC would have been nice for the tuning part, but since it sounds liek you are past that then the extra money spent will be a luxury and not really a necessity. If you are going to make lots of changes and always fiddling with the tune then get the wideband hooked into the TEC3. If you are a set it and forget it setup (I doubt that!) then the narrow band will suit you fine since you sound like the tuning has already been done, albeight the hard way.

[1969CamaroRS]

The fast system is Wideband.

[JamesJ]

ngk afx wideband is what i will be using with my TEC3

HP Works
http://www.hpworks.com/

they can sell you one and give you all the info how to wire it.

[Larry Callahan]

The fast system is Wideband.

It is but it won't output a signal full time. Each time you start the car you have to go through 2 or 3 menus to tell it to output a signal for the computer and what type of signal. Frustrating.

[Denvervet]

What have you found about Innovate sensor kits regarding compatability to your ECM unit? I got a gen 7 accel setup going and their dual widebands go for $8-900 major ouch! Spoke with Innovate sales ....should have spoke with techs...and they didn't seem to know if their setup works with mine or not. I don't "need" dual wideband but have the exhaust bungs for it so....

[Larry Callahan]

Doh!!! I had planned to put two of these in the center console. I just noticed they have an output I might be able to use for my Electromotive system.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/41ilfDOYgmL_SL500_AA252_-1.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Meter-4378-Ultra-Lite-Wideband/dp/B00142TPNQ