Need a light & cheap car to practice rowing through the gears.

[madmax]

Hey everybody -

I need a car with a manual! My first two cars were automatics ('03 Mustang GT, and '05 GTO). I like automatics. I like having both hands on the wheel at all times and having a hand free for lunch, phone(cough), girlfriend......... that, and what's better than a stall'd auto on the street :D

I recently financed a new Corvette with an M6. I'm selling it and keeping the GTO - it's an AMAZING car, but I have a good opportunity to get out of it and just buy be able to buy the same car for the same amount of money whenever I want. I also am finding I don't necessarily care for the image right now - especially as a young guy... that, and the economy, personal finances... etc. The GTO also deserves some love. A lot of plans were scrapped for the vette... including a 6L80E, another turbo, and widebody.. someday. That car deserves some love.

Anyway - on topic here. I know how to drive a stick, but not nearly as well as I'd like. What kind of cheap & good cars are out there in todays market? I'd be looking for something light and with good weight distribution so I wouldn't need a of power to be peppy. I'd be looking for something that I would be interested in tinkering with and upgrading when I had some spare $$. I'd be looking to spend a few grand on it - I don't really have a number but 4k would probably be my upper limit. I would wrench on the car and do all the work myself - some assembly/fixing would be fine with me. Some cars that come to mind are -

a first gen mustang (a la DZ)
second gen corvette (4th gen?)
....maybe some AMC?
RX7?
BEETLE?
300zx's? (don't really know much about them)
roadster of some sort?

-i can't deal with ultra rice or miatas or ****.
-an overdrive gear would be nice for the highway, but not required.

Something else I'd like to factor into this equation is insurance. I'd be driving this thing for fun - so I wouldn't want to pay much/month. So... maybe a classic car so I can get collectors insurance? I would only be driving the thing around town and I'm sure less than 2k a year.

The Mustang is probably my first choice at this point - I probably wouldn't even want a fastback. I know I'm asking for a lot but I feel like there must be some good opportunities out there, especially if I'm patient.


Thanks for the input, as usual.


Max

[Ash]

Just out of curiosity, What do you have against the Miata? I know a whole lot of guys see them as "chick" cars (I used to scoff when I saw guys driving them), but you get a whole lot of bang for the buck...especially since you want to upgrade it in the future. 1989-1997 First Gen MX-5 Miatas had Near 50/50 weight distribution, 2100-2200 Lb curb weight, Rear Wheel Drive, independent double wishbone suspension all around, and with or without power steering. Out of the box power is the cars true shortcoming, but that can be remedied down the road with a turbo or supercharger. They can be had for a couple thousand dollars and the sheer number of people that track them is a testament to their validity as sports cars. Just my .02 though.

I'd go for a 94-97 with the 1.8L engine,Torsen (torque sensing) LSD,and the 5-speed.

And you can make it a fastback Hard-top...

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[79-TA]

Hey, I was just in this predicament a year and a half ago. I looked at a TON of cars on Craigslist and considered just about everything.

I saw a couple of BMW E30's and a couple of fox bodies in person . . . some were interesting heaps.

In the end, I settled on my 1987 Ford Mustang GT and have loved the car. This was supposed to be a temporary car that I would sell after my family and I ran the 24 Hours of LeMons with a junked Mustang. That ended up not happening and I still have the car and love commuting in it. In a few weeks, I'll be trying it out on a road course.




Anyway, my top pick is the Mustang as evidenced by my own purchase, but BMW 3 series can be great affordable cars, the E30's and E36's in particular. I don't know what it's like in Florida, but Southern California has tons of them, so E30 parts are easy to find in salvage yards. E36 parts might be more costly as those aren't in junkyards yet. Lastly, E30's don't have a lot of leg room, so if you're very tall, it might ruin the deal. I'm 5'10" and felt kinda cramped in one.

I also considered an old Beetle. They're a blast to drive, but I can't picture living with one. You'd have to get used to living with a lot of issues, like windows that fog up easily and might not have a working defroster. That and I didn't have all day to go in a straight line. (bug-lovers please spare me from stories of awesome dragbugs . . . I live next to a VW officianado and see plenty of them)

On the topic of Miatas, I grew up hating them, but in recent years have come to find their motoring purity quite attractive . . . the total reversal is weird . . . I can't explain it. There are good deals to be had on them should you look for one. I'd ditch the softtop for a hardtop (just the normal replacement, not a crazy fastback) if possible.
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RX7's. I really wish FD's were priced more reasonably. I could never get excited about FC's and know little about them.


I'm a GM guy so I looked at a lot of 3rd gen Camaros and 4th gen Corvettes. It was nigh on impossible to find a Camaro or Firebird with a proper manual and I really didn't mind not having to deal with a weezy Chevy 305. You can get a fairly decent but high mileage C4 for 4k, BUT again, finding a manual is the trick. A C4 is likely to cost much more with a manual than the automatic, just like any other car.

80's Toyota Supras can be a good option, but I could never get excited enough about them to look at them as a real option.

Nissan 240's can be good. Get a notchback if you can. If only they came with some better horsepower numbers . . . LSx swap much?


You might also consider Ford Focuses and Probes. Random, but they are affordable and offer decent cornering performance. I suppose the same is true for Dodge Neons.

Also look in into LT1 4th gen cars. The way the economy has been, you might be able to find a manual V8 car around 4k. If a V8 isn't a huge priority, then look into some of the newer V6 4th gens.




So, if you do consider a fox body, here are some random things about my car:

- purchase price: $2,120.00
- absolutely bone stock
- needed to replace rear brakes - drums, shoes, and self adjusters
- heater core was bypassed so no AC or heat - still need to fix and heater core is somewhat of a pain to access on the fox cars
- I like to run the timing at 8 degrees advanced as the throttle response seems a bit crisper and this is what my cousin got his best dyno numbers with when he had a stock fox body
- the car came with 190k miles, but was very well kept by the second owner who had had it since the car was almost new
- tires needed replacing 10 months after I bought the car - which was a great excuse to upgrade to better rubber
- being from 1987, this car has no cupholders, no airbags, and no ABS
- one of the hydraulic struts that holds up the rear hatch needed to be replaced
- after 190k miles of driving, the driver seat is noticably softer than the passenger seat
- the fuel gauge does not work, though the low fuel warning light does

Given where the economy has gone since March '08, when I purchased the car, you should be able to get a slightly better deal.


Good luck! I'll try to keep thinking of more ideas.

[Restomod]

Anyone that hates on a Miata has never ran one up to 7k through the gears. They are cheap and quick. If you get a Fox Mustang and use it for you to learn "bangin gears" you will quickly learn to be "Buying gears". The stock T-5 is the weak link in the 5.0.

[mfishburn]

I just rescently bought a '86 BMW 325es for $300. It runs and drives but it is an automatic. There is tons of room in them. I'm 6'2" and I have plenty of room and I think I have the seat all the way forward. They are great cars with tons of potential. Just be carefull you might get attached to the car like I did!

[JEFFTATE]

Is lightweight a big factor ???
If so , go with the Miata.
If not , go with the Mustang or BMW.

[novaderrik]

i paid $400 for my 5 speed '97 Cavalier, but it isn't very good for banging thru the gears.

[SatisTraction]

i would go with a 89-93 mustang. HUGE aftermarket support and the sky is the limit on power.

[MuscleRodz]

Miata is just too small for me. For $4k, I would consider a 88-90 RX7 turbo. They will make power and keep making power as they can get enough fuel and air into them. You can find them for $2-$3K. My brother is a RX7 parts specialist and owned a ton of them, I have owned a couple myself. They are a great car and you can buy a nice one with a little shopping around. Personally if I could find the right 93-94 with a blown motor, I would own one in a heartbeat with a LSx transplant

[thetoystore]

what about an 80's model 240? there dirt cheap and have decent looks and overall performance

[79-TA]

Anyone that hates on a Miata has never ran one up to 7k through the gears. They are cheap and quick. If you get a Fox Mustang and use it for you to learn "bangin gears" you will quickly learn to be "Buying gears". The stock T-5 is the weak link in the 5.0.

Well, quick once they've built up some speed.

I'm sure the T5 isn't a great transmission strengthwise, but I'm now at 197k miles with my transmission in decent shape. And it's not like I didn't bring my car out to Irwindale a time or two (where it ran the 1/8th mile in the 9.6's and 9.7's trapping at 75 mph.) Of course, my car isn't making any extra power either. If the transmission breaks, then that's what the local salvage yard is for. Miatas' shifters do have a nicer feel from what I've seen.

[formula]

I have to speak up for miatas as well. If you can deal with the way you look while you're driving it, they're the most fantastic little scoot-around cars ever. No, you're not going to blow the doors off of anything, but they are quick enough to have fun in stock and the aftermarket for them is huge--plus they're cheap, reliable, and you get top-down cruising to boot.

Another option to consider might be a late-90s saab 900. I daily drive a saab and as long as you find one that's been taken care of and then proceed to take care of it yourself, it'll last forever. Plus, I get 30 mpg and the car only cost me 1400 bucks.

[mfishburn]

Buy a miata and swap in an LS1!

[jy211]

944 turbo?

[Lowend]

You want fun & light with an M/T

1983/84 VW GTI
1900lbs wet with a 5 speed. You can have one for less than $1000.
Probably the best car I ever owned

[madmax]

Miata is just too small for me. For $4k, I would consider a 88-90 RX7 turbo. They will make power and keep making power as they can get enough fuel and air into them. You can find them for $2-$3K. My brother is a RX7 parts specialist and owned a ton of them, I have owned a couple myself. They are a great car and you can buy a nice one with a little shopping around. Personally if I could find the right 93-94 with a blown motor, I would own one in a heartbeat with a LSx transplant

Mike - that sounds right up my alley. There is a guy in town running an RX7 with a H/C LS1 and that thing MOVES - on the bottle he's in low 10s high 9s territory. I've been thinking about dropping an LS3 into my GTO so the stock LS2 would work perfectly.

If you could have your brother keep an eye out for a roller I'd appreciate it.

Max

[madmax]

@Ashley - They're just a little bit too small for me, and they just don't really do it for me. They're great little cars and I like that tech - but..... eh. I need torque in my life.

@79-TA - Thanks for the long post. The BMWs are boxy and eh. Supras would be an option but I think I'd want a Gen IV and I don't know what those go for. I saw a 240 the other day and they look good.

@Satistraction - Ugh. I hate those things. Awesome to race but ugh. Boxy as ****.