Ford 9" hub gasket?

[69TAPoser]

I have a set of moser axles with the rubber o-ring on the bearing that is going in a big bearing ford 9" rear. I am also using the Wilwood disck brake kit with the internal park brake.

When I disassembled the rear, there were hub gaskets on each end. There weren't any gaskets included in the the wilwood kit and it doesn't even mentioning using them.

I have done some research and see that people due have issues with the axles leaking and many recommend putting some silicone on the housing ends.

I searched Summit and found these:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/stra1030e_w-1.jpg
I know they are really for a special Strange hub, but they would fit on my application as well.

My questions is, do I go with the gasket above or just with the silicone?

Thanks,

Phil

[oestek]

I've got a big bearing Moser 9 with the o-rings, and we had one axle seal go bad causing a leak, but we don't have silicone or gaskets on the end and it's been fine for years. Just my experience.

[parsonsj]

My Moser 9" with big bearing/o-ring setup also leaked a bit, and I found some screwdriver marks on the o-ring when I disassembled it. I put new bearings and seals back in with some Perma-Gasket to hold the races, and all has been well.

jp

[69TAPoser]

Thanks guys. So the general consensus sounds like if the o-ring isn't damaged or doesn't fail, they shouldn't leak.

Thoughts on the hub gasket? My thought is it can't hurt to use it?

Phil

[parsonsj]

Actually, it can hurt. It will give a tad less preload to your axle bearing, and could lead to some pad knockback issues. Plus, it doesn't really seal the area that leaks anyway.

I wouldn't use it.

jp

[Yelcamino]

My Currie rear had a leak on the passenger side and when I spoke to Currie about it, the tech told me to put some RTV around the outside edge of the bearing just before I installed the axle in the housing. I did and it's been about four years with no leaks.

Oh, and I don't have a gasket any where else. Do you need it, probably not IMO.

[big gear head]

There is no need to use the gasket or the O rings. If you put in a stock Ford axle seal it will seal much better than the O ring or gasket.

[69TAPoser]

There is no need to use the gasket or the O rings. If you put in a stock Ford axle seal it will seal much better than the O ring or gasket.

The o-rings are built into the outside of the bearing housings on the moser axles.

Got it about the gaskets...no gaskets.

Thanks for all the help,

Phil

[big gear head]

Yea, I know how the Moser bearings are made. I'm a Moser dealer and I've installed countless numbers of these axles. Toss the O rings and use the Ford axle seals. The O rings will probably leak.

[parsonsj]

bgh, I'm not following. How do you toss the o-ring? They are built into the bearing race. Do you mean to cut them off?

jp

[big gear head]

The O ring just fits into a groove in the bearing. Leave it on if you want, but use the Ford seal too.

[parsonsj]

huh. I did not know that. Next time I've got my axles out, I'll be calling.

thanks.

jp

[69TAPoser]

I am not sure what the Ford seals look like. Where would I get them?

Phil

[69TAPoser]

I found these on Summit, is this the type of seal you are referring to...?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/siteas105_w-1.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SIT-EAS1-05/

Phil

[parsonsj]

Phil,

No, I don't think so. Those seals are for when you use roller-type axle bearings, rather than the tapered bearing. Roller-type bearings are not recommended for vehicles with significant side loading requirements, such as for autoX or road racing. They do work for drag racing applications and light duty daily driving.

Now, having said that, I have heard reports of using those seals with tapered bearings when those bearings are packed with grease (like a front axle bearing). I've never done it, but maybe somebody here has.

The short story is that tapered (Timkin Set20) bearings need lubrication, and those seals will starve them.

jp

[big gear head]

That seal is designed to keep oil from running into the axle tube on circle track cars. In these cars the oil will run into the right axle tube and the gears will run dry.

The seal that I'm refering to is the original Ford truck axle seal. Any auto parts store will have them. It's a comon part. It's just a normal looking seal that goes into the housing ends before the axle is installed.

[69TAPoser]

So something more like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/ratech_2046_19826740-1.jpg

..Correct?

Sorry to be so ignorant, this is my first time dealing with a Ford rear.

Phil

[parsonsj]

bgh, Will that seal cause a problem with the tapered bearings running dry?

jp

[big gear head]

That is what the seal will look like

Yes, the seal will cause problems with the tapered bearings. This seal should NEVER be used with tapered roller bearings. If you are replacing sealed ball bearings with tapered roller bearings BE SURE to remove the seal in the housing end before putting the axles back in. The tapered bearings have a different seal that goes on the axle before the bearing is pressed on. The tapered bearings don't have an O ring on them.

[parsonsj]

Let's back up.

Here's a pic of the Timken Set20; recommended as the heavy duty axle bearing for the 9 inch Ford. It requires a near-constant supply of gear lube to work correctly.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The outer housing race has a sealing surface for the bearing race and an axle seal. Note the black seals for both surfaces. Most guys put some RTV or Perma-Gasket on the inner bearing race where it seals in the shoulder of the housing end and reduces the work the outer seal has to do, and that usually solves axle bearing leaks.

Now then. Here's a pic of the sealed roller bearing that can also be used:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This is the bearing that you use an axle seal that gets installed in the axle tube prior to installing the axle itself. It does not require additional gear lube. It is fine for street and drag use, but has high failure rates when used for autoX or road race where there is lots of side loads.

bgh, do I have all this information right? And the axle seal you are referring to is for the roller bearing? Not the tapered bearing?

jp

[big gear head]

That is correct.

[79MALIBU]

I just switched over to the Set20 Tapered Bearing. I am running Wilwood rear brakes with parking brake. The bearing retainer and brake bracket are one piece, which is installed before you press on the bearings. The Problem is when I tighten the retainer, it clamps against the Set20 bearing. The more I tighten, and then drag is puts on the axle. If I torque the bolts to were it needs to be then it preloads the bearing so much that i cannot turn the wheels by hand. Is this normal, or do I need to shim out the retainer until the preload is not noticeable?

[big gear head]

What housing ends do you have? How was the rear end set up before you switched the bearings? Did you switch to the disc brakes at the same time? If you have the wrong housing ends for the disc brakes then you might be putting too much pressure on the bearings. The flush mount housing ends are designed to be used with disc brakes and the standard bore housing ends are designed for drum brakes. If you have the standard ends then you might have to get the caliper brackets counterbored .125 deep for the bearings.

[jr421]

Ok so I found this thread yesterday when I was assembling my rear end. I attached some pictures to make sure that I understand what the assembly should look like when you put it together. As you can see the o-ring on my bearing barely makes contact with the bearing cup and thats what started my search on this subject. So I went out to get the BIG axle flange gaskets and it wasnt a picnic most of the chain auto-part stores were useless so I finally made the drive to the local speed shop. They had one in stock and ordered me the other. I posted the pic with the part number so that anyone can walk into any part store and get the right gasket/seal. I also included the photo of the t-bolts with a part number to help anyone with finding them too. If anyone sees anything that looks funny or if I have the wrong parts posted please let me know. I hope this helps others during assembly.

[big gear head]

Those gaskets aren't going to do you any good. They will not seal anything. The oil will still leak around the bearing. All you are doing is sealing the caliper bracket to the flange, or the backing plate if you are using drums. The gaskets are probably going to cause you problems because they will allow the bearing to move back and forth in the houisng end becasue of the added thickness of the gasket. You need to install the OEM axle seal inside the housing end. This is the only way to seal the axle correctly with the sealed ball bearings that you have. As far as I know those gaskets were only used with the tapered roller bearings.

[jr421]

OK Please let me know what my next step is to assemble the rear end, do I need different gaskets????

[My427stang]

The biggest thing is to get the end of the axle housing clean if you are running a used housing.

Then use some RTV as a lube for the o-ring/bearing during axle assembly, it helps the o-ring from catching and then dries to help it out.

When you pull the axle next time, it'll wipe right out

[jr421]

Ok am I missing an axle seal ?

[big gear head]

What housing ends do you have? Are they original Ford ends, Strange or something else?

If you have Ford ends then take the o ring off and toss it in the trash. Get Ford truck axle seals and put them in the housing ends like the factory installed them. This is ALL that you need. You don't need any gaskets or o rings, just the OEM type seal. Be sure to smear a thin film of RTV in the housing end where the seal goes before you drive the seal in, and lube the rubber lip of the seal before putting the axle in.

If you have Strange ends then you are going to have to rely on the o ring. Do what My427mustang said and hope for the best.

[jr421]

I have the Ford big end configuration. Is there a part number for the seals we are autopart challanged in this area, the nation wide stores are not very good at finding parts with out moodle year ect. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[big gear head]

Get axle seals for a '79 Ford F150 with the 9 inch ring gear and sealed ball bearings. That should do it. I don't have my part numbers with me right now. These seals will look very much like a small block Chevy front main seal.

[jr421]

Thank you for all of your help I will post pictures and part #s for others to reference.