critque these welds please

[WS6]

I did these on the tunnel panel for my car. The new panel is 16ga and the floor is that if not thicker. I didn't measure. I've got the mig welder set to the proper settings for 16ga steel. I think these look good especially compared to my tank welds. What do the rest of you guys with a lot more experience think?

The center weld is untouched and the one I'm mainly asking about. The other two have been wire brushed and are ready to be linked together.

I do think the one thing I need/want to work on is having a steadier hand. My welds aren't straight and that I want to get better at.

Thanks

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/PICT1142-1.jpg

[parsonsj]

Trey,

What kind of joint is it? Lap joint?

They are sitting a bit high... try stitching: run a 1-2s burst with a circular movement, move your torch, run a 1-2s burst, move your torch, etc. Think like you're writing a string of 'O's on the metal. Running a continuous bead on sheet metal is very difficult to do. Stitching works better.

Also, on a lap joint, start the puddle in the "under" panel, and push it to the edge of the over panel.

jp

[Taylor1969]

Yep.... Looks like you are just moving in a straight line... Do nothing but circles and move to the right about 1/3 of a circle for every loop you do. You may also want to turn your line speed down and your heat up a little... Looks like you are putting a lot if material there.

[WS6]

Yes, lap joint. Ok, I'll work on the circular motion. I was moving in a straight line basically. I didn't know you were supposed to move in circular motions. It makes since though to do circles.

On these welds, I had the torch angled to the right and was moving to the left. Is that correct or should I move in the direction I have it angled?

I have the transmission cross member yet to weld and I think that may be it on this project. Luckily that is the only important part I am welding. Everything else doesn't matter really if it cracks. I can always go back and do it again. I'd prefer my trans support to not fail though.

Thanks guys. Keep the tips coming. I appreciate it greatly

[Taylor1969]

You want to be as close to perpendicular as possible... this way the shielding gas works the best.

[WS6]

ok will try that out. I was thinking the angle would help the welds that were just laid down stay shielded while they cool as well as shield the current welds that are being laid down.

[SVTforme]

What does the other side of the piece look like? That will give you an indication on the kind of penrtration you are getting on the weld and whether your settings are where they need to be and/or whether you are going to fast/too slow or not.

[justasquid]

You were reffering to pushing and pulling the weld. most of the time, I've found it easier to push than to pull. that is to point the torch in the same direction you are moving. You don't want the angle to far from straight up and down, but just a little lead. Some prefer the pull method, but it tends to build the weld up too high with less penetration. For sheet metal, I've have better luck just doing a series of spot welds, or stitching as already mentioned. I however wouldnt suggest using the circle method for sheet metal. Actually, I never liked that method, but it works well for a lot of people. I like to start the penetration, move the welder, stop, let the puddle grow, then move the welder again just a little, stop, let the puddle grow,... I repeat this process until I am done welding. But for sheetmetal, you really don't want the heat to build up too much. a 1-2 second weld, stop, let it cool slightly, then before the weld cools down too much,( as in there is still a slight glow of red from the metal), hit it again. Even with this method, your going to be hard pressed not to warp the metal, but it is easier on the metal then running a solid bead. the best method is to do a series of spot welds and just join them all together. If you keep the spot welds a few inches apart, the heat has little effect of the metal. Also, this prevents the dreaded burn through where you end up with a huge hole in the metal.

[WS6]

What does the other side of the piece look like? That will give you an indication on the kind of penrtration you are getting on the weld and whether your settings are where they need to be and/or whether you are going to fast/too slow or not.

To me it looked great. It was obviously heated and slightly rough from what I was perceiving to be were everything melted together. The bead versus the heat was apparent. Then again, I'm not trained in this and am just learning.

Thanks guys. I'll keep all this in mind as I continue to practice.

[80proZ]

You were reffering to pushing and pulling the weld. most of the time, I've found it easier to push than to pull. that is to point the torch in the same direction you are moving. You don't want the angle to far from straight up and down, but just a little lead. Some prefer the pull method, but it tends to build the weld up too high with less penetration. For sheet metal, I've have better luck just doing a series of spot welds, or stitching as already mentioned. I however wouldnt suggest using the circle method for sheet metal. Actually, I never liked that method, but it works well for a lot of people. I like to start the penetration, move the welder, stop, let the puddle grow, then move the welder again just a little, stop, let the puddle grow,... I repeat this process until I am done welding. But for sheetmetal, you really don't want the heat to build up too much. a 1-2 second weld, stop, let it cool slightly, then before the weld cools down too much,( as in there is still a slight glow of red from the metal), hit it again. Even with this method, your going to be hard pressed not to warp the metal, but it is easier on the metal then running a solid bead. the best method is to do a series of spot welds and just join them all together. If you keep the spot welds a few inches apart, the heat has little effect of the metal. Also, this prevents the dreaded burn through where you end up with a huge hole in the metal.
A little info here.Pulling gives more penetration but produces a higher build weld, while pushing give a little less penetration with a flatter and broader weld.The circle movement is really not needed on sheet metal butt or lap joints.What you do need is more tacks,one about every inch.The more tacks you have, the more stable the weld zone will be and will be less likely to warp.And the most important thing is to take your time

[drflex]

ditto more tacks

[The WidowMaker]

pulling does give more penetration, at least for me and according to millers site. the results arent "that" different though.

on thicker sheet, 16+, im a weld a couple inches and move on kind of guy. on thin stuff though, i complete a whole bunch of tacks moving around the panel. helps with warpage and its still really fast. just make sure you really sink the new tack into the old one or you will have a pin hole when you grind.

Tim

[jackfrost]

just make sure you really sink the new tack into the old one or you will have a pin hole when you grind.

true dat. i'm a real welding n00b, but what has been working for me is to use the hottest you can go when tacking without burning through. it helps if you have a practice piece the same width as your work piece to get your temp right.

[WS6]

I've gotten better guys. I still need to work on my consistency though. I'm really getting much better at wand control and puddle control. I believe my biggest issue was moving too fast before. I'm taking my time and really looking at what I am doing. I guess me using mainly thicker metal is helping that. I also figured out corner welds. Before this was killing me. So I turned the power and speed up and put the heat into the thicker piece and/or the vertical piece so that the puddle would naturally move down because of gravity.

John your and Taylor's suggestion to move in circles really helped.

Thanks guys. These make my earlier ones look like crap. Let me know what you think and of course suggestions/critiques are welcome. I started this thread for a reason.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/PICT1248-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/08/PICT1257-1.jpg

[Lance-W]

Buy some spatter spray. It'll get rid of all those little balls of metal that are stuck everywhere. All that you will have to grind will be the actual weld.

[67 ls1 vert]

Good info here. I have a mig welder and I see that you have tiny beads. Are you using smaller wire? Also, I have a place to hook up a bottle on the back of my welder, what should I buy for it? I know that will help out a lot. I never used it and want to try it out.

[John Wright]

Trey, hope you don't take this the wrong way, just trying to be of some help to ya. The second set of pics does look better, but the spatter is a result of one of two things...either too much WFS for the voltage, or too much stick out. To balance out the WFS /voltage gradually increase the voltage until the weld sounds more like a hiss rather than a popping or crackeling...if it's too hot then decrease the WFS until you get that hissing sound again. The crackeling or popping sound is the wire jamming into the molten pool way too quickly to melt off properly, thus causing the spatter to fly all over. If the wire burns back up in the tip, then increase the WFS but not so much that the spatter returns. The spatter should be almost non-existant or really fine and can be brushed off with a wire brush very easily.

Oh and another thing, to tie in one stitch weld into the next, you want to let your puddle thin out some at the end of your first stitch weld(don't fill in the crater), then when you run the next one to it and tie in, you start your next weld in that crater where you left low(thin) and it all ends up being the same height and nobody can tell where you stopped or started, it all looks consistant and seamless.

[67 ls1 vert]

Hey John, did you ever finish your engine install? I just read your whole thread on the engine install and wiring ordeal.

[John Wright]

Hey John, did you ever finish your engine install? I just read your whole thread on the engine install and wiring ordeal.
WS6, Pardon the thread derail....

I'm in a holding pattern for a bit....$$$$....kids are going back to school(private school), and I was trying to get my shop put together(25x40 steel building) and concrete is expensive. We had some layoffs here at work, so I'm kinda watching what I spend at the moment. However, I did get the TPI motor back together, and have it bagged and waiting in my shed until I get my shop put up(hate to put that shiny piece in to have it get all corroded). Ed Miller is working on a ebrake for the rear of C5 stuff, so I'm working with him on that as soon as he gets a few minutes to get it all packaged up and sent out to me. I need an ebrake here in Va to pass inspection. I'm still excited about my car, just having to excert some patience as the camaro money flows in rather slowly.

[67 ls1 vert]

I can un understand that. Well, good luck with it.

Sorry WS6, just had a quick question for John. Game back on.:enguard:

[monza]

Trey

I'm no pro welder, your welds are looking better for sure. Just a idea to toss at you... get some similar gauge scraps and practice on those before you go at it on the car. When ever I weld something I want to look 'pretty' I try and set up the same scenario and try and dial in welder and the technique before the real piece. Other non 'pretty welds' have at it.....

[WS6]

Trey, hope you don't take this the wrong way, just trying to be of some help to ya. The second set of pics does look better, but the spatter is a result of one of two things...either too much WFS for the voltage, or too much stick out. To balance out the WFS /voltage gradually increase the voltage until the weld sounds more like a hiss rather than a popping or crackeling...if it's too hot then decrease the WFS until you get that hissing sound again. The crackeling or popping sound is the wire jamming into the molten pool way too quickly to melt off properly, thus causing the spatter to fly all over. If the wire burns back up in the tip, then increase the WFS but not so much that the spatter returns. The spatter should be almost non-existant or really fine and can be brushed off with a wire brush very easily.

Oh and another thing, to tie in one stitch weld into the next, you want to let your puddle thin out some at the end of your first stitch weld(don't fill in the crater), then when you run the next one to it and tie in, you start your next weld in that crater where you left low(thin) and it all ends up being the same height and nobody can tell where you stopped or started, it all looks consistant and seamless.

Excellent info John. I'll be sure to keep this in mind. I was thinking that the splatter was mainly from the weld through primer I was using. It seemed that I would get more splatter when I had that stuff on the metal than not. This was my first time ever using the primer. Then again, it could have been settings as you have mentioned. Admittedly, I'm almost winging it on the settings. I've figured out how to tell when I need more heat and I've used the table on the inside of the machine's flap as a guide. I know when I have too much as well but I also try to pull the wand away if I think I can't go lower on the heat but am putting too much into that particular part. Seems to work but am I wrong in doing this?

I'll be sure to get better at stitching too.

Oh and don't worry about the thread jack. Tell Ed to get moving. :) I need a set of his C5 brake brackets for the rear. I know he's busy though. I'm just anxious. I've got a call into him now actually.

[WS6]

Trey

I'm no pro welder, your welds are looking better for sure. Just a idea to toss at you... get some similar gauge scraps and practice on those before you go at it on the car. When ever I weld something I want to look 'pretty' I try and set up the same scenario and try and dial in welder and the technique before the real piece. Other non 'pretty welds' have at it.....

Thanks Dave. I didn't consider any of these to be pretty welds so I just went at it. I'll definitely do that when I try to step up to pretty welds. There are times when I like to see raw welds instead of everything ground down and smoothed away. This was definitely not one of them, lol. I knew I wasn't capable of pretty welds yet.

[WS6]

Good info here. I have a mig welder and I see that you have tiny beads. Are you using smaller wire? Also, I have a place to hook up a bottle on the back of my welder, what should I buy for it? I know that will help out a lot. I never used it and want to try it out.

Call the local welding shop that you'll have to get the gas from. I've never heard of a welding place not taking the time to educate and inform their customers. If you are unlucky enough to find one, you've also found a place that should never get your money. Just tell the place you are new to all of this and they'll help you.

[John Wright]

Excellent info John. I'll be sure to keep this in mind. I was thinking that the splatter was mainly from the weld through primer I was using. It seemed that I would get more splatter when I had that stuff on the metal than not. This was my first time ever using the primer. Then again, it could have been settings as you have mentioned. Admittedly, I'm almost winging it on the settings. I've figured out how to tell when I need more heat and I've used the table on the inside of the machine's flap as a guide. I know when I have too much as well but I also try to pull the wand away if I think I can't go lower on the heat but am putting too much into that particular part. Seems to work but am I wrong in doing this?

I'll be sure to get better at stitching too.

Oh and don't worry about the thread jack. Tell Ed to get moving. :) I need a set of his C5 brake brackets for the rear. I know he's busy though. I'm just anxious. I've got a call into him now actually.LOL, funny we mention Ed...he PM'd me on another forum and told me he has them ready, so jumped and ordered his C5 ebrake backing plates and cables yesterday. I already had the rest of the C5 rear brake stuff on the car and working.

About the spatter because of the primer. Reason for that is that the wire is feeding too fast for the puddle in that case because of the primer....facts still are that the wire is pushing into the molten puddle too fast and causes the spatter.

Too long of an electrical stick out can cause the same thing even though your settings are correct. That small dia wire only needs about 1/2 - 3/4" of stick out(ESO=electrical stick out, measured from the end of contact tip to the work). Keep that ESO distance constant or it's like changing your settings and it will confuse you when you are trying to get your welder set.

Be conscience of maintaining the same travel angle, when you go from pulling to pushing on your travel angle, it changes your settings so that can also confuse the situation of getting the welder set.

Be conscience of the arc length, watch it and you'll see that increasing the voltage or decreasing the WFS will lengthen the arc length, and decreasing the voltage or increasing the WFS will shorten the arc length. If the arc length gets too long, it will burn back into the tip, if the arc length gets too short you will get huge amounts of spatter and lack of fusion.

I know it sounds like alot is going on and to keep up with but with GMAW or FCAW, you only have two knobs to set. Apply the KISS method....LOL

[WS6]

Thanks John. I like having the back ground info that helps me learn why things work the way they do instead of just how to make it work.

Ed PM'd me on nastyz as well. Just waiting for him to get back to me on where he wants the money order sent to. I'll bend my own lines and unless he has a better setup, I'll just use Lokar for the ebrake cables.