Anyone know a company that builds custom spindles? [Archive]

modular93fox

07-05-2009, 06:52 PM

Looking for a company that can fabricate spindles. Ive tried searching the net and its proving to be rather difficult.

In a nut shell this is what my vision is:
a bolt in spindle
that accepts dodge ram 1500 hubs
and ls1 rotors and calipers.

The dodge ram hubs becuase its ment for a truck and its already a 5 lug bolt pattern which means i can re-drill them with the 5x5 chevy pattern with no problem unlike the nnbs sivlerado hubs. The rotors would be a easy fix too since they can be re-drilled aswell. This means everything can be found on the autoparts shelf no problem or even a salvage yard.

The application is a 87 silverado. There is an aftermarket brake kit for 800 bucks which uses a brake setup thats very nice, but it looks like it uses a custom rotor and the hub piece is not desirable either. It uses same type of "hub" thats currently on the truck. This means you cant run certian wheels becuase of the dust cap. Plus they say "provides 1-1/8" more fender to tire clearance" which means its moved closer or further from the fender? Anyway I want to keep it the same if possible.
Im playing around in Autocad 09 and Inventor 2010 but my computer cant handle Inventor more than a few minutes before the graphics card craps out. Doesnt surprize me since my computer doesnt even come close to the minimum requirements! Well I will just keep playing around untill get all of my measurements entered in and when I have something cool to show off I will post it:)

novaderrik

07-05-2009, 07:17 PM

head to a boneyard and see what kind of a spindle setup is used on an AWD Astro van- it has a hub/bearing assembly like you are looking for and used the 5X5 bolt pattern up until the mid 90's.
i can't remember what kind of a control arm setup it uses, tho.

silver69camaro

07-06-2009, 05:15 AM

If I were a spindle/knuckle fabricator, the fact it's for a '87 Silverado would make my stomach churn.

Fabricated spindles can work very well, but for street use I would stay away. I agree with the previous post, find an OEM piece.

modular93fox

07-06-2009, 01:06 PM

JRouche

07-06-2009, 06:29 PM

can you explain why it would be bad? i cant visualize the difference in my head. thanks.
clint

Im kinda interested too, why bad?? Strength? Cost? I imagine will be pretty high. I like the idea of finding some OEM spindles too, but if you have the casholla some custom spindles would be sweet, as long as ALL the variables are considered. JR

ScotI

07-06-2009, 08:21 PM

Looking for a company that can fabricate spindles. Ive tried searching the net and its proving to be rather difficult.

In a nut shell this is what my vision is:
a bolt in spindle
that accepts dodge ram 1500 hubs
and ls1 rotors and calipers.

The dodge ram hubs becuase its ment for a truck and its already a 5 lug bolt pattern which means i can re-drill them with the 5x5 chevy pattern with no problem unlike the nnbs sivlerado hubs. The rotors would be a easy fix too since they can be re-drilled aswell. This means everything can be found on the autoparts shelf no problem or even a salvage yard.

The application is a 87 silverado. There is an aftermarket brake kit for 800 bucks which uses a brake setup thats very nice, but it looks like it uses a custom rotor and the hub piece is not desirable either. It uses same type of "hub" thats currently on the truck. This means you cant run certian wheels becuase of the dust cap. Plus they say "provides 1-1/8" more fender to tire clearance" which means its moved closer or further from the fender? Anyway I want to keep it the same if possible.

I know of a guy that can (& does) build spindles. My bet is that by the time you add the cost of fabricating the spindles to the 'over the counter' parts mentioned, you'll surpass what's currently available in kit form.

It looks like you have described what CPP offers. This kit is supposed to keep the track width narrower which provides improved clearance @ the lip of the wheel well. That may/may not be advantageous depending on the truck (if you're not already locked in on wheel BS).

Anything else in particular you dislike about the kit you described above in bold?

silver69camaro

07-07-2009, 05:10 AM

can you explain why it would be bad? i cant visualize the difference in my head. thanks.
clint

Primarily the weight of the vehicle. Not only are truck platforms heavy, but most of that weight is on the front end. Being able to properly design a spindle to support this would cost a bunch of money.

modular93fox

07-07-2009, 05:40 AM

As far as designing a proper spindle the idea is to duplicate the originals, such as ball joint position, ball joint and angle and tie rod location. Would that be good enough I mean they have fabricated spindles for the NNBS lift kits, thats where I got the idea for a lowered spindle. Logically it sounds correct, no?
This is what I've came up with in after a few practice runs and about 30 different tutorials on youtube.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/spindleassembly.jpg/)

The base of the spindle would be 1/2" thick steel (which it sounds to be comprible to the 1/2-1" in places cast iron piece)

The hub flange will probally vary between 1/4 and 3/8 depending on the measurement of the factory spindle to get the same hub offset.

The ball joint pieces would be out of 1" steel then welded to the base and have u shaped gusset going around the parameter welded to the ball joint block to spindle for stregth. Same for both top and bottom.

The pitman arm will probally be welded on as a seperate piece and gusseted in similar fasion.

As far as CPP kit, I dont like the fact that the wheels get tucked in even more. My goal is to have the tire close to the fender without hitting the fender. I have the eastwood fender roller so alteast it wont cut the tire if it should get that close. A bunch of wheels that Ive seen and have taken a liking to are the 96 Impala SS wheels which are 8.5 wide on +6 mm offset. And the TorqLites that are 8" wide on 0 offset. Both wheels are way to sucked in for my taste... to me it looks as retarded as a large wheels with rubber bands.

If the CPP offered the same kit without a change in offset that would be great and I would probally stop thinking about the custom stuff. I wonder if CPP makes those hubs inhouse? If so maybe they can just machine the hub to accomidate the caliper mounting on the opposite side of where its currently at. That would gain about 1/2"... I will give them a call and ask them about it.

modular93fox

07-07-2009, 05:42 AM

I also checked out the spindle for the AWD astro van, although its a sealed hub, with the 5x5 pattern they dont offer a lowering spindle. Seems only torsion keys.

Apogee

07-07-2009, 08:28 AM

The spindle pin length is what determines whether you're going to have a interference issue with your wheel center cap and grease cap, that combined with the flange position of your hub. Rather than making a custom spindle, I would think a custom hub would be much simpler. Spacing things outward tends to be easier than inward since there are fewer limiting factors. The Impala SS wheels fit 325mm C5/C6 brakes fairly easily up front and 330mm C6 Z51 brakes in the back if you were so inclined.

Tobin
KORE3

silver69camaro

07-07-2009, 08:49 AM

The problem is with the welding, really. One-piece forgings or castings can't be compared to a welded unit - the probability for bad welds or improper fillet sizes is high. I've seen them break and the damage is usually pretty bad. Rarely have I seen a OEM piece fail.

Fabricated spindles that have held up well that I've seen were designed by professionals - those who have access to FEA and know how to use it, along with destructive testing equipment. If you don't have either of these, I wouldn't bother.

Just my opinion, anyway.

modular93fox

07-07-2009, 09:25 AM

ScotI

07-07-2009, 05:09 PM

As far as CPP kit, I dont like the fact that the wheels get tucked in even more. My goal is to have the tire close to the fender without hitting the fender.... If the CPP offered the same kit without a change in offset that would be great and I would probally stop thinking about the custom stuff. I wonder if CPP makes those hubs inhouse? If so maybe they can just machine the hub to accomidate the caliper mounting on the opposite side of where its currently at. That would gain about 1/2"... I will give them a call and ask them about it.

There are low(er) budget big brake kits already in existance for 6X-87 GM trucks. One uses owner supplied stock spindles (or dropped), spec'd billet hubs (no cut down OE stuff), re-drilled C5/C6 rotors in various sizes & configurations, & various levels of PBR or better calipers (2-pot floating up to mono-block Z06 stuff). There are other kits that offer similar parts @ similar pricing w/o the options. But if I'm spending up to $1300 on a brake kit, I'd @ least want to get it the way I want it. These options keep the track @ the standard width too.

JRouche

07-07-2009, 05:45 PM

There are low(er) budget big brake kits already in existance for 6X-87 GM trucks. One uses owner supplied stock spindles (or dropped), spec'd billet hubs (no cut down OE stuff), re-drilled C5/C6 rotors in various sizes & configurations, & various levels of PBR or better calipers (2-pot floating up to mono-block Z06 stuff). There are other kits that offer similar parts @ similar pricing w/o the options. But if I'm spending up to $1300 on a brake kit, I'd @ least want to get it the way I want it. These options keep the track @ the standard width too.

And for 1300 bucks Id give wilwood a shot too. I just got some zero offset brakes for my car. Wilwood has a pretty large selection of hubs and alot of their stuff is mix and match to get the proper offset. JR

ScotI

07-07-2009, 06:24 PM

And for 1300 bucks Id give wilwood a shot too. I just got some zero offset brakes for my car. Wilwood has a pretty large selection of hubs and alot of their stuff is mix and match to get the proper offset. JR

Wilwood SL6R BB for a 74 Chevy truck (6X-87 suspension stuff is interchangeable). P/N 140-10775 w/13.06 x 1.25 curved vane rotor . . .....*notes:

270-10762 hub assemblies are required for kit completion. Not supplied with kits and must be purchased separately.

Front Kit works only with Classic Performance Drop Spindles (CP30106-2/3/4), Available for purchase separately.
Without reinventing the wheel, their current options would lead him right back to the CPP spindle dilemma. That by itself is easy enough to overcome by adjusting the wheel back spacing (less BS is usually a good thing when it comes to interference on these trucks). But there are other options that exist. The hub is similar to the OE hub dimensionally so there's a possibility of interference w/certain wheel mfr's center caps.
Give Tobin @ KORE3 a call. Or try Frank from Prodigy Customs & see if he's got options on the Wilwood stuff that might work.

JRouche

07-07-2009, 10:32 PM

Wilwood SL6R BB for a 74 Chevy truck (6X-87 suspension stuff is interchangeable). P/N 140-10775 w/13.06 x 1.25 curved vane rotor . . .....*notes:

270-10762 hub assemblies are required for kit completion. Not supplied with kits and must be purchased separately.

Front Kit works only with Classic Performance Drop Spindles (CP30106-2/3/4), Available for purchase separately.

Without reinventing the wheel, their current options would lead him right back to the CPP spindle dilemma. That by itself is easy enough to overcome by adjusting the wheel back spacing (less BS is usually a good thing when it comes to interference on these trucks). But there are other options that exist. The hub is similar to the OE hub dimensionally so there's a possibility of interference w/certain wheel mfr's center caps.
Give Tobin @ KORE3 a call. Or try Frank from Prodigy Customs & see if he's got options on the Wilwood stuff that might work.

WoW!! You know your hubs :) Great info, save that guys, good to know. I also strongly looked at the Kore brakes, same issue for me. Calipers were just too large (on the vertical measurement) to fit in my wheel (my wheels are a lil diff). But some great offerings from them too.. JR

modular93fox

07-08-2009, 04:57 AM

I will check those options out. I called CPP again yesterday and the spindles are retracted inwards to match the track width of the rear :( no bueno.. its funny becuase when he said that I was "like man I added spacers in the rear to bring the track width closer to the fenders". It actually matched the front track width (which looks a lot better).
I wish I were wealthy and just could make parts on a whim like I want. I emailed a few comanies that do prototyping and sand casting for ductile iron parts and found that its not cheap but not out of the reach of a small business. Seems to be the biggest cost is to bring the part on the screen to my hands. That pattern is the bulk of the cost which depends on the way its broght to life. Without the drawing infront of them at the time the only ballpark they could offer was between 3-10k. I will get a formal quote later on today. I wonder if I make my own pattern out of different spindles to get the final part and have that as the pattern?? That is the next question for the prototypers after iI get the intial quote. I cant imagine the part costing that much.
To start there are small fees with this one company. 50 setup fee for under 10 ordered and 150 material waste charges.
I will post up with more info... and after I check out the other brake options.
clint

modular93fox

07-08-2009, 06:53 AM

ScotI

07-08-2009, 09:02 AM

I just checked out the wilwood website about the part numbers listed and they are nice but it utilizes the CPP spindle :( (also mentioned above)

Man if CPP would not have jacked with the offset of the spindle my quest would be over... ahh.
by the way, thanks for the replys and guidance on the topic.
The KORE3 kit is basically the same set-up but w/o the track width difference (it remains the same as stock or 'standard' dropped spindles allow). The benefits are it can cost less & you have more options on your rotor & caliper choices. Those choices were the key decision factor for me @ the time as I wanted a full, un-drilled, non-slotted rotor.

TitoJones

07-08-2009, 09:45 AM

Our AFX spindle works on S10 trucks, are the Silverado's the same platform?

Tyler

67bird

07-08-2009, 09:59 AM

Have you tried looking at the 88 thru 98 spindle or the 99 thru 07 spindle?

ScotI

07-08-2009, 10:31 AM

Our AFX spindle works on S10 trucks, are the Silverado's the same platform?

Tyler
They're different.

Have you tried looking at the 88 thru 98 spindle or the 99 thru 07 spindle?

The 88-98 spindle/brake caliper can be adapted.

novaderrik

07-08-2009, 11:10 AM

the 88-98 2wd trucks use the same basic setup as the older trucks- the hub is a part of the brake rotor and it uses the trusty old style cheap wheel bearings that you to pack. that pesky dust cap would probably still get in the way.
the awd Astro van is the only application that i can think of that uses a sealed hub/bearing assembly that has the 5X5 bolt pattern he is looking for, but i've never seen an Astro spindle sitting next to a 73-87 pickup spindle, so i don't really know how similar they are.
there is another option that might be easier than all this screwing around- keep the stock spindle and run some wheel adapters that move the wheel mounting flange out so that the dust cap isn't an issue any more- then it just becomes a matter of getting the proper offset on the wheels.

modular93fox

07-08-2009, 12:15 PM

I thought about that too but I also want to upgrade the trucks brakes. Although I have no complaints with the brakes currently, bigger rotor + dual piston caliper behind a set of nice wheels will look better than a dinky 12 inch rotor and the ol single piston caliper.
As I was thinking about the parts I wanted to use I got to thinking about what might fit and not. The dodge hubs bolt pattern is 5 on 5.5" so the hub might be around 5.75" in diameter.. Im not sure if the ls1 rotor "hat" will fit over the dodge hub (if it were the same bolt pattern) becuase the surface so large. I thought about turning the hub down and make those fit. Thats one thing I might do if turned hub has enough meat on the outer edge to support the studs. If not another choise would be to use the dodge brakes which are slightly larger than the sivlerado truck brakes.
I got these numbers off of alldatapro.com so they should be accurate.
The dodge 1500 uses a 13.2" diameter x 1.1" thick rotor and twin 54mm piston calipers.
The chevy 1500 uses a 12.98" diameter x 1.14" thick rotor and twin 52mm piston calipers.
If the spindle concept comes to life hopefully I will have chosen the route for the calipers and rotors

modular93fox

07-09-2009, 10:45 AM

They're different..

by chance do you know whats different about them? it just so happens that late model s-10s came with sealed hubs and have mounting ears for brake calipers. I doubt anyone will have one of these laying around for measurements... Specifically these: C, D, E and F (im sure A & B are the same as C)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/spindlemodel-1.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/spindlemodel.jpg/)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/225_4WD_Knuckle323x283-1.jpg

Thanks to Tylers height measurement of the stock sten/AFX spindle of 8.5 inches that gives me a little ray of hope of using a factory or production type spindle. My 87 Silverado spindle measured around 9.25". Now the orientation of the upper ball joint is rivited on top of the spindle, so would it be safe to mount the balljoint under the arm? If so could I go a step further have a machined 1/4 (for example) spacer to take up some of the height difference which would reduce some camber issues
I can imagine the wheel having camber issues becuase of the shorter spindle, but if a sten's spindle will work and meets all of my criteria, a set of longer upper control arms should correct the camber, right? (or thats what it seems like).. Man I have got to be racking some of your brains with these questions and I'm thankfull for all of your help.

modular93fox

07-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Man I had a terrible time finding what I wanted. I finaly found some usefull information about ls1 brakes using the above spindle. If these spindles will fit my application ls1 or c5 brakes will fit no problem.

Do you guys have any specs on ball joints? Ive read in another forum that there are tall and short ball joints? any truth to that?
Thanks,
clint

modular93fox

07-09-2009, 04:00 PM

Son of a bich... my heart just skipped a few beats.. so it took searching for sten brakes to find what I've been longing for.. Dam search engines are hard to use now a days. Its 8pm in florida and the number I called must be in california becuase they answered :) lol. The guy couldnt give me specifics but he said he's personally installed them on trucks like mine and they do not tuck the wheels inwards at all... woot woot.... no re inventing the wheel for me! When i get more details i will post up a link:)!!!

modular93fox

07-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Well the spindle design is not what I was expecting. From the generic pictures on a few websites it looked awesome, nice beefy mounting points for the caliper bracket to mount to, but when I called McGaughys they said the spindle design is from the normal drop spindle. To make the kit, they only machined off caliper ears off and drilled and tapped 2 holes for the adapter bracket... I was hoping for a spindle like CPP without the tuck... hurm... so basically its just like this guy did:
http://www.geocities.com/diels12000/BrakesII.html :( guess back to the drawing board..
clint