whats better vertical or angled rear coilovers?

[Bryce]

so i tried searching with no luck. so whats better for a 3 link rear supsension.

1) Angled coilovers, top toward center of car.

2) completely vertical.

3) coilovers with the top pointed toward the center and toward the front of the car.

what are the advantages or disavantages of these different set ups?

would angled give better side load stability? or does vertical seperate the job of the coilovers and make tunning easier?

thanks in advance.

[79T/Aman]

the best would be straight,when you angle the coil over the spring rate becomes less effective, there is a % lose per degree, take a look at Pro-shocks' website they have the needed info to calculate the rate lose when installed at an angle

[Bryce]

thanks for that link, its got a lot of good info.

i understand that i would need to have stiffer springs, but is there any advantages for lateral stability with a angled coilover?

[JRouche]

Just as with all systems, suspension, or any type of system there are trade offs for every move. Change something here, it affects something there.

A spring is gonna get the most bang for the buck straight up and down. But some times its hard to package the mounts, mainly the uppers so they will clear other components when they are vertical. Cause you want the lower mounts as close to the wheel hub as possible.

And if you have some deep wheels then that also becomes an issue. So sometimes the springs are mounted at an angle to tuck in, under the wheel at the bottom to place it as far out as possible. And many times people want to mount the upper side of the coil to the frame. And the frames are usually not out far enough to get a vertical mounting of the spring. You can weld up a sturdy structure off the frame to extend the mounting location. But remember, when you see shocks mounted like that they arent coilovers. The coilovers are supporting the whole car, not just shock type loads. Gotta be stout.

So what usually ends up happening is you angle the COs over a lil to get inside the wheel, close to the hub, and forsee the additional spring rate needed to offset the reduced amount of capacity due to the angled spring.

Now, in my opinion its better to control the axle as close to the hub as you can VS trying to stay vertical with the spring. Alot of leverage is seen the further away from the hub you get. Makes for a slow reacting rear end from what I can tell. JR

[parsonsj]

Ideally, you want the spring inline with the applied force. That's why drag racing stuff usually uses coilovers that are vertical.

But for us guys that go around corners, body roll makes a difference on what is actually inline with the applied force. Plus you want the lower mount pointing at the center of tire contact patch to keep leverage effects at a minimum. So 5 degrees or so would be about right, but then you factor John's comments about packaging, and sometimes you gotta lean them in even more. That's why a typical road race setup has 5-10* or so.

jp

[Bryce]

thanks JR.

again your insight helps my brainstorming.

im at the final steps of my 3link design. im trying to decide coilover locations. i ordered my 9" housing last week. I have a 4.11 open diff waiting to go in. that will be a big difference from my 2.79s. so im actually going to bolt the new housing up to my leaf springs and lower the car two inches and build traction bars. it will be a fun drive while im working on 3link build. i will post pics of my unique traction bar design.

[Bryce]

thanks for the input John. it gives me a lot more to think about.

its going to be a dual purpose car. so i will aim for the 5*-10* angle

[GetMore]

Since you are going to install them at a shallow angle this isn't that pertinent, but if you were to install the coilovers at a steeper angle, say 40°, for argument's sake, then you need more than just stiffer springs. The springs have to be progressive, since the angle will increase as the suspension compresses, making the spring rate less and less effective.

[Bryce]

Since you are going to install them at a shallow angle this isn't that pertinent, but if you were to install the coilovers at a steeper angle, say 40°, for argument's sake, then you need more than just stiffer springs. The springs have to be progressive, since the angle will increase as the suspension compresses, making the spring rate less and less effective.

great point, i missed that issue.

[68sixspeed]

A good rule of thumb for laying out the shock angle is to take a string from the opposite tires contact patch center and swing and arc through the upper and lower shock mounts.

[Eric Howell]

I asked here once and was told to go 0 degrees. This all makes more sense but the backhalf is designed (over a year into it since I'm a noob). How bad is that? Haven't started on the clip.
Offset 3 link converging in plan view with the shocks mounted behind the axle at 0 degrees, fore and aft, side to side.. About 85% anti squat if that matters.

[JRouche]

I asked here once and was told to go 0 degrees. This all makes more sense but the backhalf is designed (over a year into it since I'm a noob). How bad is that?

Its not bad at all, straight up and down is good, as long as you can get the bottom mount close to the axle end. How far away is the bottom mount from the axle end?

My issue was sever. Look at the before pics, coilovers vertical, they were only 24" apart. And really far from the axle end. So I changed it up a lil and I "think" it will be better. Havent driven it yet so who knows. JR

Before pic.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/f-3.jpg

After some changes.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/e-3.jpg

Out against the axle end as far as my wheels would allow. And lemme say, the tolerances are pretty tight. But it all fits.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/c-3.jpg

[parsonsj]

Nice work, John!

jp

[JRouche]

Nice work, John!

jp

Thanks John.. Im on the front now, mustang II suspension Im trying to improve. I read all your build up. Unfortunately I dont have the skills that you do or the facilities. LOVE the custom spindles you guys made. Umm?? The G-code?? LOL No, didnt think so, not gonna toss that out freebie huh, I dont blame you, alot of time invested in your car. Great car you have there!! JR

[Eric Howell]

Its not bad at all, straight up and down is good, as long as you can get the bottom mount close to the axle end. How far away is the bottom mount from the axle end? Not sure what it comes out to from the end of the axle but there is 35.5" separation. It's a S-10 and the stock frame is 40.375" wide but for 335's it had to be narrowed about 4". Shocks will end up about 0.5" - 0.75" from the tires.

BTW, you have some of the most informative posts on the site. Right there with Billie Shope (hope that's spelled right) and Mark from SC&C.

[JRouche]

Not sure what it comes out to from the end of the axle but there is 35.5" separation. It's a S-10 and the stock frame is 40.375" wide but for 335's it had to be narrowed about 4". Shocks will end up about 0.5" - 0.75" from the tires.

BTW, you have some of the most informative posts on the site. Right there with Billie Shope (hope that's spelled right) and Mark from SC&C.

Sounds perfect, you will have them out as far as possible with the steam rollers on there. Gonna look and handle great Ill bet. PICS!!!!!! Thanks for the compliment, and yeah, those guys and really, most of the guys here have helped me out tremendously.. Always amazes me the amount of help the pros wanna give a newbie like myself. You would think we were paying them. Just goes to show, car folks are kinda bound by the need to see some great cars on the road. JR

[parsonsj]

Actually, on my uprights (spindles), Brian Schein has built a new model for them, and was going to make some new ones. I think the new model is better than the set of G-codes that he used to make the first set.

If you're serious, drop him a line. He posts here and at lateral-g from time to time.

jp

[JRouche]

Actually, on my uprights (spindles), Brian Schein has built a new model for them, and was going to make some new ones. I think the new model is better than the set of G-codes that he used to make the first set.

If you're serious, drop him a line. He posts here and at lateral-g from time to time.

jp

Thanks, JR........

[MonzaRacer]

After working on a lot of dragcars, street cars and setting suspensions up (and doing alignments) I have found a 10degree tip in at top has given much better handling, even on the dragstrip, unless using coil overs, then going on what makes suggests .But I have found straight up and down shocks tend to work less effectively in cars that turn corners. I also watch the amount of movement forward/backward too,,, while seems negligible it does seem to help to make sure the shock points direction the cars is supposed to traverse,,, ie point forward if at all. But hat usually only changes less than 2 degrees at most.

[Bryce]

thanks for the advice everyone. Im just working on some final details. then i will make official drawings and start my fab work. bolt in 3link in a falcon. What??????????
HAHA. i think i will have the only one

[silver69camaro]

thanks for the advice everyone. Im just working on some final details. then i will make official drawings and start my fab work. bolt in 3link in a falcon. What??????????
HAHA. i think i will have the only one

Actually, we made a 3-link Max-G chassis for a Falcon a while back. Don't worry, it will still be very unique!

[Bryce]

Matt,
you just burst my bubble, thanks.

is there pics on your website of the falcon?