Best 200 minimum Treadwear tire ??

[JEFFTATE]

Well , I'm doing a little research on the best 200 ( minimum ) UTQG Treadwear tire.

I've seen how good the BFG g-force TA KDW's work. They're 300 UTQG.
Kuhmo makes the ECSTA MX. They're 220 UTQG.
Falken Azenis RT615. - 200 UTQG
Toyo T1R . - 280 UTQG
Toyo Proxes 4 - 300 UTQG

So , I'm just wondering , for the price which ones are junk and which ones really work good.
I want to get a tire that is minimum 200 UTQG.
That way I can use it at most autocrosses. ( Like Goodguys and RTTH )

I've heard good things about the Toyo R888' but they are 100 UTQG.
I've heard good things about Kumho brand , Falken brand , and Nitto brand.
There is a lot of choices out there.

The KDW's are US made.
That kinda makes me feel good.
They obviously work good.
That's what Detroit Speed uses on their test cars.
They get fastest time at almost every autocross they run.

But the Kumho's cost a lot less.

The Falkens look good. and they're a 200 UTQG.

[lnirenberg]

My personal favorites are the Goodyear F1 GS-D3s that I have on my Chevelle. The 1st set I bought 2-3 years ago for a '91 ZR1 I had and they transformational. I am putting them on my Bel Air project (ordered today). They are exceptional in wet weather and very good in dry, although I do not auto cross, and have a 280 wear rating. Tire rack is offering a $50 rebate on a set of 4 until 7/11. I looked at a lot of tires for the new build and ended up with one's that have proven themselves to me and I believe they are made in the US but nothing is certain in this regard anymore.

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks . I'll look into them too.

[RodDawg]

Talk to Finch (Brian) about the KDWs. He has his own personal BFG store in his garage. He may part with a set for reasonable $$.

[Takid455]

I have the Toyo Proxes 4 on the 97 Grand Prix DD and really like them. I have a set of the T1R's on the T/A, but that is not driveable yet. The store I purchase my tires from as heard nothing but good about either. I would have gotten the R888's if they had my sizes. I get about 30k or so out of the 4's.

[DriverzInc]

Nitto NT05....

[PARKERRS]

Nitto NT05....


I'm about to try a set of these out Jeff. If they are a big leap from the NT 555 I'll be very happy as the 555's are pretty darn good once you get the pressures right for the track.

[Johnny Blaze]

I am really happy with my bfg g force cports I just put on my dd.

[T-CHRGD]

My personal favorites are the Goodyear F1 GS-D3s

X2

I have them on my '87 Turbo "T" and I LOVE them !!

[jknight16]

I just heard today that the T1R has been discontinued by Toyo. So if you want em, get em now!

[Roadrage David]

Jon Hendrson send me the 315 x35 Nitto 555 and the 245x 40
Nitto Nt101 to the Netherlands. all i can say is that the grip is fenominal!!!
but i must say the nitto tires are verry small for there size. the 315 looks like a 285.
if there is a tire brand out there that will out perform this combo in exeleration and stearing grip i like to hear it

[1969CamaroRS]

Michellin Pilot Sport 2s? 220 treadwear.

[JEFFTATE]

Ah Ha ,
I'm getting some opinions now.
Thanks guys.

I can read about tires all day on the websites of the tire manufacturers , but that doesn't give me a real world opinion.

So , thanks for the input.

[zman1969]

The ratings have no bearing when comparing brand to brand. The government made the Tire companys do a rating system with no standard or base to rate from so each tire company has their own base and rates from that- confusing? typical government involvement IMO. I worked 20+ years in the tire buisness and when they rolled that new UTQG the government let each mfr test their own-surely no one would lie? heres a quote off TireRacks site
"The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful."
Things to keep in mind when comparing brands!

[JEFFTATE]

The ratings have no bearing when comparing brand to brand. The government made the Tire companys do a rating system with no standard or base to rate from so each tire company has their own base and rates from that- confusing? typical government involvement IMO. I worked 20+ years in the tire buisness and when they rolled that new UTQG the government let each mfr test their own-surely no one would lie? heres a quote off TireRacks site
"The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful."
Things to keep in mind when comparing brands!

I know that the number means nothing between brands.
I just need a minimum 200 to run at any Goodguys Events or Run Thru the Hills.
That's my only reason for caring about the number.

I value intelligent , real world opinions more.

That's why I started this thread.

So , thanks for the info .

BTW ,

Michelins , Nittos , and Goodyears are just way out of my price range.
I've heard that Toyo , Kumho , Falken , and BFG are just as good.
( From certain people )
So I'm still doing research.

It's boiling down to a decision between the : Toyo T1R or Proxes 4 , Kumho ESCTA MX , BFG g-force TA KDW , or Falken Azenis RT615 .

So.....

[noobwrench]

Nitto NT05....

x2, its an amazing tire. Got some wheel time in a C5 with them, noticeable step up from the 555's, which are a great tire on thier own.

Pilot Sport PS2 is another amazing tire!

[sik68]

Good info. It's why I bought my GS-D3's

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/tests/CandD_gy_f1_gs_d3/CandD_gy_f1_gs_ds.pdf

[Steve1968LS2]

Why 200 treadwear? All the Goodguys go by a min of 180 treadwear..

In which case you could also go with the Kumho XS tire. And they are priced RIGHT!

The Mich Pilot Sport 2 is 220 treadwear and the KDW, although marketed as 300 is just as soft at the 220 Pilot Sport 2.

The only problem with the NT05 is sizing.. not even a 315 tire for the rear.

[Steve1968LS2]

I just need a minimum 200 to run at any Goodguys Events or Run Thru the Hills....

Goodguys is 180 TW.. the RTTH folks should carry the same standard so that people don't end up having to buy new tires over a measly 20 treadwear.

You listening Bill? ;)

[JEFFTATE]

Goodguys is 180 TW.. the RTTH folks should carry the same standard so that people don't end up having to buy new tires over a measly 20 treadwear.

You listening Bill? ;)

Oh, thanks Steve.
I thought Goodguys was 200 also.
Now I've got more info to work with.

[JEFFTATE]

Good info. It's why I bought my GS-D3's

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/tests/CandD_gy_f1_gs_d3/CandD_gy_f1_gs_ds.pdf

That's good info.
Thanks.
Goodyear GS-D3 245/45/17's are $208.00 each at TireRack.
275/40/17's are $234.00 each.

Kumho Escta XS 245/45/17's are $133.00 each.
275/40/17's are $156.00 each.

That's $308 difference.
I just wonder if the Goodyears are worth it ??

[JEFFTATE]

I looked on the Goodguys Street Challenge Autocross website and it read 200 UTQC in the rules. ??

Honest , I looked ............

Here's a link :
http://www.streetchallengeautocross.com/event-info/rules-a-info

Don't get mad..............

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh, thanks Steve.
I thought Goodguys was 200 also.
Now I've got more info to work with.

Nope.. it's 180.. always has been.

Mary won the auto-x on Kumho XS 180 tires.. twice.. I won the editors cup on the same tires.

Just wish they made a damn 335/18

[Steve1968LS2]

I looked on the Goodguys Street Challenge Autocross website and it read 200 UTQC in the rules. ??

Honest , I looked ............

Here's a link :
http://www.streetchallengeautocross.com/event-info/rules-a-info

Don't get mad..............


It's wrong.. lol

They somehow got all flubed up and stated the tires had to have "minimum 200 tread DEPTH".. that's non-sensical.. I talked to them and they realized it was 180 last year.. and it's 180 this year.

Like I said, Pozzi won the deal twice on 180 tires.. as did I.

[Steve1968LS2]

I will talk to Drummand (from GG) this weekend about amending thier site.

[MonzaRacer]

So what sizes are you looking for?

[David Pozzi]

FYI,
At Pleasanton Goodguys, I was told they tried to up the treadwear to 200 but got protests from guys who had gone out and specifically purchased treadwear 180 tires to run the autocross. Mary mentioned she heard 200 would be the limit next year. I'll ask her to post what she heard.
Just asked Mary and she said at Pleasanton they were not going to let her run because she had TW180 tires. I'd be cautious and get 200 or higher.
David

[MonzaRacer]

Bridgestone RE 050A Pole Position UTQG 280 AA A
Bridgestone RE-11 UTQG 180 A A
Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sport UTQG 340 A A
Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position UTQG 400 AA A (awesome wet traction too)
Firestone Wide Oval UTQG 320 AA A
For me if I remember right the 960AS and the Wide Oval meet my tire sizes availability. Seems a lot of people by pass Bridgestone/Firestone yet will buy a Goodyear and have never seen how crappy the construction of their tires are.
Oh and dont even think of Kumhos if they come out of china, amd Hankook used to have better tires till they came out of china, now those suck too.
I have never like a Cooper tire (long story) but till Cooper skipped the US and built a big a$$ plant in china and cut production in Kentucky, but put a set of Xeons on a customers car and was reasonably impressed, hope those dont fall in quality.
Any of those Bridgestones will stick and the Wide Ovals are great for the price/rating too.
Then after the luck I have had on my bike with Pirelli:
Pirelli PZero # UTQG: Treadwear: 220 AA A
Pirelli PZero Rosso # UTQG: Treadwear: 220 AA A
Pirelli eufori@ # UTQG: Treadwear: 180 A A

[mpozzi]

FYI,
At Pleasanton Goodguys, I was told they tried to up the treadwear to 200 but got protests from guys who had gone out and specifically purchased treadwear 180 tires to run the autocross. Mary mentioned she heard 200 would be the limit next year. I'll ask her to post what she heard.
Just asked Mary and she said at Pleasanton they were not going to let her run because she had TW180 tires. I'd be cautious and get 200 or higher.
David

Pretty much what Dave said ...

I'd gotten a set of the Kumho Ecsta XS's as Steve had asked about the 180 treadwear rating for GoodGuys and was told that was the limit. I have never seen the rules that stated 200 tread depth but Steve had and asked for clarification. He has an email or other correspondence that lists the 180 treadwear as being okay for the GoodGuys Autocross and brought it to the first event.

I ran at GoodGuys Costa Mesa and Del Mar here in CA with no problems. At Pleasanton, I was told that the tire rule regarding treadwear had changed and it was now 200. That was okay with me but Mike Maier, Maier Racing, had a gotten set of Bridgestones with the same 180 rating and I think he rattled some cages and got it back to the 180 treadwear. About 20 minutes after they told me I was ineligible for the Street Machine class, I was then told my tires were okay. I'm pretty sure but not positive that 200 treadwear tires will be the limit for 2010 or even the rest of 2009.

I'd email GoodGuys or just go by what's on the GoodGuys website and hope that other events follow suit. Hate to have to buy different tires for each event ...

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

P.S. Checked the GoodGuys website and it clearly states 200 treadwear as being the limit. Anyone have an in with Kumho so they can rebrand their XS's???

[Steve1968LS2]

FYI,
At Pleasanton Goodguys, I was told they tried to up the treadwear to 200 but got protests from guys who had gone out and specifically purchased treadwear 180 tires to run the autocross. Mary mentioned she heard 200 would be the limit next year. I'll ask her to post what she heard.
Just asked Mary and she said at Pleasanton they were not going to let her run because she had TW180 tires. I'd be cautious and get 200 or higher.
David

It's so silly.. it's been 180 for years.. one has to wonder why they would bother changing 20 points..

I will do some asking around this weekend..

[lnirenberg]

Seems a lot of people by pass Bridgestone/Firestone yet will buy a Goodyear and have never seen how crappy the construction of their tires are.

I agree to a point as I have experienced their out of round truck tires and earlier versions of RSAs which were pitiful. The GS-D3s are a completely different animal. I have had them on 2 cars and soon a 3rd and their wet weather grip is eye opening and their dry isn't too shabby either and I have not had any significant wear issues in about 10k miles on each set. Although it wouldn't make me buy an inferior product, "Made in the USA" is more of a factor for me than in the past. All things be equal, I will pay a premium to keep my $$$ in the US.

[stealth71]

I was just about to order some of the Kuhmo Xs'. Hopefully someone will find out the requirements. What does RTTH require?

[JEFFTATE]

So what sizes are you looking for?

245/45/17's front
275/40/17's rear

[JEFFTATE]

I was just about to order some of the Kuhmo Xs'. Hopefully someone will find out the requirements. What does RTTH require?

RTTH requires 200 UTQC .

[silver69camaro]

I think people put too much faith into the treadwear rating and assume lower numbers equal better traction. It really doesn't, and the only way to find out what works the best is to ask guys running various tires on similar cars. Check out the tire test in the latest Car and Driver and see the variations between treadwear ratings and performance.

[68sixspeed]

245/45/17's front
275/40/17's rear

If you can go 255/40/17 on the front the nitto NT05's might be just the ticket for you as a dual purpose street and auto-x tire. The vette guys on corvetteforum seem to love them. One oddity - they seem to stink or smell like manure when they are new.

[JEFFTATE]

One oddity - they seem to stink or smell like manure when they are new.

Wow , in that case , I may get some .
This I gotta' see.

[sik68]

You're in luck, this came out today:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/tires/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the _michelin_ps2_comparison_test

[Merlin]

Who's the tire sponsor for these events? Maybe their tire can't compete with the new ultra/max performance tires. And they're jealous they can't keep up. My thought, make a better tire! Competition breeds better products. I count about 7-8 max performance tires available. In no particular order:
Bridgestone re-11
Kumho xs
Toyo r1r
Yokohama ad-08
Hankooks rs-3
Nitto nt-05
Dunlop z1 star spec
Federal 595rs

The bang for the bucks goes to the Kumho. It also won a tire test in Grassroots Motorsports magazine. I ran these tires on my car/street tire autocross class. Very fast, mucho lateral grip, but couldn't feel when the tire let loose. Translation-not forgiving when pushed over the edge. I personally run the Bridgestone. Great tire, long lasting, we have over 200 runs and they are just at the wear bar. A good indication of what is the best tire is to look at the national level street tire class and see what they are running. We know some say the Toyo will be the tire to have. It all comes down to who picks the right tire, dial in the handling and match their driving style to the characteristic of the tire.

Cliff

p.s. congrats to Mary on the Pleasanton win!

[The Stickman]

I love my BFG G-Force Sports if that matters. They handle great and are priced way cheap.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I suppose they're out of consideration since they're a 220 tread wear, but I ran Kumho Ecsta MX on my '01 Camaro SS and LOVED them. Ran 275/35/18 / 295/35/18

Traction was excellent as was handling. I only put ~3,000 miles on them before I sold the car, but they seemed to be wearing very well.

I just ordered another set of Ecsta MX to replace the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars on my '02 Z06. If the fronts would ever come off of back order...

[JEFFTATE]

I suppose they're out of consideration since they're a 220 tread wear, but I ran Kumho Ecsta MX on my '01 Camaro SS and LOVED them. Ran 275/35/18 / 295/35/18

Traction was excellent as was handling. I only put ~3,000 miles on them before I sold the car, but they seemed to be wearing very well.

I just ordered another set of Ecsta MX to replace the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars on my '02 Z06. If the fronts would ever come off of back order...

The Kumho ESCTA MX is high on my list.
Those , and the BFG g-force TA KDWs.
I've noticed that the Kumhos are on backorder too.
Maybe they are about to be replaced.

[JEFFTATE]

What about Sumitomo ???
They make Falken also.
They seem to get pretty good reviews on Tire Rack.
The Sumitomo HTRZ II is a 220 Treadwear tire.
They are dirt cheap.
$ 80 each for the fronts
$ 92 each for the rears.

Has anybody ever tried these ????

[77ta]

Jeesh I was about to order some Kuhmo XS tires for autocross... that would ahve been a kick in the nuts to find they were outlawed due to a 180 tw rating...Although they make me run in the SM2 class so that may not matter... ????? Anyone know > ?