A little first gen spindle porn(top secret)

[baz67]

After casing the place for weeks, I was able to displace this one photo. I snached it and while I sprinted away the killer dog they called Gage sunk his teeth into, well you do not need to know where. There are many untold secrets there.

!!This message will self destruct in two minutes!! :santa3:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img48.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img48&image=atsconfidential33be.jpg)

Brian

[baz67]

It appears the technowizards at ATS are preventing me from uploading the pic. I will try and overide their system.

Brian

[TitoJones]

HA HahahaHA! We coated the 'part' in a special government coating that makes it impossible to take a clear picture of!! We have foiled the spies again!!


This is the last prototype of an item going out for production. It is going to set the industry on its ear when completed, and every 1st gen, Nova, Firebird, and Chevelle guy is going to want, No- NEED one of these to complete their PT project.

Keep your eyes on the ATS boys... They are sneaky Fockers.

Tyler

[David Pozzi]

OK, - Do I need a secret decoder to see this thing???? :comp3:

[BA.]

you guys are KILLIN me!!! :) I don't know whether to go ahead and order my UCA and LCA's or what!!!


I wanna buy parts NOW. lol!

[TitoJones]

Just a little FYI-

This product can be used with any upper control arm, any geometry, and any brake system you want that has an option for a C5 Corvette.

Go ahead an order your control arms.

Tyler

[baz67]

Until it is released, you will require an SSBI/TopSecret background investigation to get any more information...

By the way, this is chicane, I hacked Brian's laptop to see what else he has on it so I cant beat him if he says any more.

Pozzi- Send me your mail address and I'll send you your secret decoder ring.

[Rick Dorion]

I sure hope capacity will be there to satisfy demand :)

Looking forward to this and other products. Oh well, paint can wait.

[Zefhix]

hmm....looks cool.

[Rybar]

Whatever it is, does it have all the same mounting points as a stock style spindle? Reason is, I already have all my C5 brake brackets and stock style spindles/steering arms installed with my tubular UCA/LCA's.

[CarlC]

Any geometry? Guldstrand mod too?

[dennis68]

How about some generic numbers guys? Ball joint tapers, spindle overall height, spindle pin height, steering arm length and height. That should be enough for now. Oh wait, any idea on pricing? Over 500/pair, over 1K/pair?

[baz67]

Rybar- Sure.

Carl- Yes.

dennis- No.

BTW this is chicane.........again.

[zbugger]

HA HA!!!! Dennis, you're like the media trying to get info out of the military after they say we can't say anything, but we'll gladly answer your questions. Great for tv, funny here too...

[nancejd]

Hmmmmmm, any brake options that will fit a 16" rim?

[TitoJones]

I'm going to say there is a slight possibilty that there is a brake combo that will work in a 16" rim. The real factor will be the steering arm clearing the rim.

Dennis- Let's put it this way- Fatman and Heidt's are going to want this spindle. Don't worry, after we have the final testing done, I'll post those #'s for ya, but not until then, so be patient.

Tyler

[baz67]

chicane again.........

Uh........ no, we wont............ but Ill give you some numbers now. How about 12? 6.84375........... mmmm 3.14?

[TitoJones]

Opps. Busted. I'll give you 1 out of 4 measurments requested. The catch there is I pick which one to release.

And to answer the pricing question-
in the ball park of $499-799 range depending on options. If you want brakes added to the bill, they will be even more, so there could be a option that puts the total into the $3500 range with some SICK race brakes on them.

Enough chatter, I need to get back in my cage before Chicane sees me and puts the hurt on my typing fingers.

Tyler

[Zefhix]

You know, I just have the funniest feeling you won't be packing bearings on these.... :kewlpics:

[Rybar]

I hope they work with aftermarket arms, and my speedtech C5 brake brackets and QA1's.

Is there any ride height adjustability to them???

[TitoJones]

Like I posted earlier:

All control arms (Stock, Aftermarket, ect..) any geometry (DSE coil over, Guldstrand, Stock) and any brake system that has a option for C5 (Baer, Wilwood, Alcon, Touring Classics, Stock GM, Brembo, AP racing ect...)

Ride height is determained by your srpings, not the spindle.

Tyler

[dennis68]

Ride height is determained by your srpings, not the spindle.
Tyler
Ummmmm, drop spindles don't reduce ride height? I know what you meant but that's not how it came out.

What Tyler means is that spindle pin height is not an adjustable
feature, it is set during casting and thats it.

[OHCbird]

Even though I'm sure you guys have adressed this- will these change the front track at all? As for C5 brakes; will these make our TC & such kits obsolete?

If these use the bolt-on hubs, mark me down for a set!

[TitoJones]

Dennis worded it better than I did. I mean to say, your ride height after these spindles are installed will be adjustable only with your spring setup. But yes, a dropped style spindle lowers the car. Track width is not affected anymore, we don't want to screw up peoples rim offsets by using this spindle- That is not cool.

The Touring Classics kit can still be used, you just won't need the cool aluminum bracket that bolts to the spindle anymore.

Hub wise, every spindle design has a hub bolted to something. These are not different than any other spindle in that respect, so I'm putting you down for a set. ;D

Tyler

[Rick Dorion]

So is the spindle designed to only work with C5 setup? Not sure from the wordings. I have the C4/13" setup which would be nice to initially migrate over.

[Steve Chryssos]

Until it is released, you will require an SSBI/TopSecret background investigation to get any more information... :secret:

So, from what I haven't read so far, what we have here is a replacement upright (aka spindle) with a C5 hub that's available in a dropped version and will work with all control arms (Stock, Aftermarket, ect..) any geometry (DSE coil over, Guldstrand, Stock) and any brake system that has a option for C5 (Baer, Wilwood, Alcon, Touring Classics, Stock GM, Brembo, AP racing ect...) It may work with 16" rims and will maintain stock track width. Touring Classics kits will work, but the the cool aluminum bracket that bolts to the spindle will not be needed. Price is in the ball park of $499-799 range depending on options.

Way to keep a secret. :pat:

[chicane67]

Ya know, it wasnt compromised until you put it all in one sentence...... but then again, maybe its you with the dis-information.

[Steve Chryssos]

Gosh, I hadn't thought about it like that. :fart:

[David Pozzi]

Steve, I heard it also converts to a milling machine and lathe!

[Q ship]

Steve, I heard it also converts to a milling machine and lathe!
But wait! There's more!!

[yody]

so besides the ease of the brake conversion, what benefits does this spindle give you, i am sure i am just jissing something here? I take it the geometry is changed? What advantages does it give you over a stock spindle? obviously you aren't willing to shoot numbers but what does it do? I see it has the geometry changes in it so the guldstrand mod isn't necessary? but what if that mod has already been done? any ideas on production dates?
EDIT
i just read steves post, only thing i am still wondering aobut is if it gives you better suspension geometry

[JLM]

Before I began my PT project on my firebird I installed a set of MP Brakes front powered disks. Will this system be compatible with the new spindle?

[chicane67]

Uhm.......... better.

[CarlC]

Steve, I heard it also converts to a milling machine and lathe!

And it needs two C-size batteries......

[protour_chevelle]

Think these will clear my 16 inch rims? I have the 12 inch Baer setup up front.

-Matt

[OHCbird]

OK Tyler; Seeing as how I DO have a TS clearance, and have gone through my share of SSBIs, I'm first in line for a set- the beta set. Confidentiality guaranteed!

[MoeBawlz]

I dont know a whole lot about suspensions here so im just more or less curious as to waht kind of gains i might see with my current setup.

I already have the Wayne Due C4 subframe and all the parts, would these parts do anything for me or would this be pretty much like just a "looks cool and sounds cool" thing in my case?

[TitoJones]

MoBawlz-

This isn't for aftermarket frames at all. It is to improve stock framed F and A body cars.

The jury is still out on the 16" wheels, but I'll test a set when I can before we get too much further to see if they fit or not.

Tyler

[69rs]

Would those of us with stock sub-frames be better off using these than an aftermarket sub-frame?

[79T/Aman]

the Q. is are they as tall as a 2nd gen? so they can be used on them and will they be available with the bigger 2nd gen bearing? how about the steering arm location bolt on? that would be nice to have different ones to adjust for bump steer! just my .02

[MoeBawlz]

Ok thats what i figured, but I had to ask... I still cant wait to see the product, who knows maybe next project ill have to incorporate them :bananna2:

[Mean 69]

Wouldn't it be so cool, if someone offered a replacement spindle for the First Gens, that could also be offered in a "raw" form? What I mean is, it would be so nice if you could buy a set, un-machined, that the user (knowledgable, fully bearing the brunt of issues arising from a "custom" application) could custom whittle to change things like, front steer-rear steer, steering arm length, KAI, and (ideally) pin height? I "mean" (no pun or refence to the respondant), having a piece that was somewhat easy to adapt to other platforms, suspension geometries, etc, would be a really nice product to other folks looking to do a more custom geometry?! Hmm... I see a market for that. But, that's just me. :idea:

M

[wally8]

You mean like these, Mark?

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/susp17.htm

Close anyway. You can't change pin height but you could spec it if you want to. Of course you can do the same thing with tubulars.

I know what you're really getting at though and it would be a cool part. However, I think of all the specs that you could have adjustable, pin height would be the least important. Not that it isn't important overall, just that you can decide what it should be relatively easily when you order.

Are you doing some market research? :-)


Wally

[Steve68]

I'm ready for mine, when are you going to release them, Vince is going to make some adapters for my C5 to spindle, If your going to release them soon, I need to know I can turn Vince off on making them, let US all know on your plans, Thanks Steve

[baz67]

Teetoe is thinking summer for release.

Brian

[Steve68]

Well that puts it too far out, Whats you're guys defination of summer, June, July or Aug-Sept,

Brian, with this new spindle, I won't need the bracket, Right???

[Mean 69]

You mean like these, Mark?

Prexactly. Coleman will whittle some custom units up for you too. One thing that makes these parts a bit "less" desirable for a typical street car is the hub/spindle pin. The hub will not fit in some wheels (ID versus OD deal), although Coleman will put an Impala pin on for you, the hubs are easier to deal with then.

Market research? Me? I thought about this "configurability" deal more this past weekend as I was driving from VEGAS to the Grand Canyon. Met some friends in VEGAS, but one of them STOOD ME UP on SATURDAY (you know who you are, you....). Anyway, the ATS guys are great, I met all of them before and still share the same opinion of them. I think folks that are more intent on using the stock style subframes will really dig their new parts, they will be worth the wait. Far more sexy than the stock units to be sure.

Mark

[Steve68]

Brian, whats Tylers idea for summer??? let me know I want to get the car to roll before then, Steve

[TitoJones]

Yody-Geometry is much improved with minimal tire wear.

Protour Chevelle- It will clear a 16" rim, but the caliper will need to be 'clearenced' to get it correct. Also a max backspacing of 4-3/4" on a 16" diameter.

JLM/Rick Dorion- C5 brakes only on this spindle. C4, and others will not work.

69rs- Depends on what you use the car for. For the money invested in our spindles, and some good springs/shocks, you can hang with, or out perform the after market subframe guys.

79 T/Aman- I have no idea on the 2nd gen spindle height, so I can't answer your question. I'm going to say it won't work with any of the 2nd gens, as it isn't designed for them. There is a bolt on steering arm on the spindle, so those who want to use an aftermarket form of steering (ie- BRP rack and pinion, Unisteer, ect.) can use the spindle too.

Steve 68- Summer is mid June if we have zero issues with delivery dates from the vendor. You are correct about not needing the bracket for the C5 conversion as these have it built in.

Any other questions?

Tyler

[Steve68]

Tyler, sounds good, I can use the stuff I have now for getting it to roll, keep us in formed please, how bought pricing, you can PM me or just let us know, need to save some clams, Thanks Steve

[David Pozzi]

Tyler the second gen spindles are between 1" and 1 1/4" taller than a first gen, they have 10 degree balljoint tapers, first gen have 7 deg tapers.

A Chevelle uses the same spindle as a first gen, Chevelles can be swapped to second gen spindles but a shorter upper arm is needed, and they turn down a second gen lower balljoint to fit a Chevelle arm. Tyler if a chevelle steering arm will bolt on to your spindle, they could be used on a Chevelle with no balljoint mods, and maybe not need the shorter upper arms. THERE! I just tripled your market! :)

[TitoJones]

We already know about the Chevelle applications, we are going to do testing on Shane's 70 A body next. The plus for the A body guys is just that- No specail control arms needed, and improved geoemtry.

Steve68- Pricing is not set in stone, but we expect in the $500 range bare, and in the $800 range with bearing packs.

Tyler

[CarlC]

You're giving too much away Teetoe!

[Steve68]

don't the bearing packs bolt to the spindle??? Like the Stielow spindle, Price sounds good, let me know when I can place my order,

[ItsA68]

Was checking out C5 brake packages yesterday at stoptech. The only kit they offer is for 18" wheels and larger...I would prefer to stick with 17's on my 68, as I don't like the too thin rubber band look. Their kit is made to bolt on a C5 Spindle, and mount their radial mount calipers. Does your spindle duplicate the factory mounting points on a C5 spindle? That would mean that any kit designed for a C5 should work right? You guys might want to look at the stoptech setups...their calipers are supposedly stiffer than the Alcon units. I was thinking it shouldn't be too hard to modify one of their radial mount caliper brackets to use a smaller diameter rotor.

thoughts?

~~fred

[chicane67]

OK. I am back in town. Shut your pie hole.........

And just for a little update, the final product has been approved and the wheels are in motion.....

[dennis68]

Wouldn't it be so cool, if someone offered a replacement spindle for the First Gens, that could also be offered in a "raw" form? What I mean is, it would be so nice if you could buy a set, un-machined, that the user (knowledgable, fully bearing the brunt of issues arising from a "custom" application) could custom whittle to change things like, front steer-rear steer, steering arm length, KAI, and (ideally) pin height? I "mean" (no pun or refence to the respondant), having a piece that was somewhat easy to adapt to other platforms, suspension geometries, etc, would be a really nice product to other folks looking to do a more custom geometry?! Hmm... I see a market for that. But, that's just me. :idea:

M

Mark, you have mail. Check it out and let me know what you think. Of course it is only modular to early Chevys but would work with any "A" or "F" chassis, maybe even the "G" chassis.

Sorry for the hijack Brian, but you started the wheels turning again.

[Steve68]

Just wanting to keep this more towards the top!!!! Thanks :cheers:

[ItsA68]

http://www.stoptech.com/ Comparable to Baer brakes, but cost a lot less. $2500 for the 14" C5 setup, with two piece rotors. A friend has these on his Z-car, and they look pretty good to me.

~~fred

[BuddyP]

When is this supposed to be released to production and for public purchase? I'm looking to order what I need for my front end rebuilt withing the next month.

Front end setup consisting of:
1 1/8 Hotchkis bar
Hotchkis 2" drop springs
GW offset shaft
Poly or Del-a-lum bushings

[Steve68]

Teetoe sez: mid June, with one of the last notes, maybe earlier, Steve