Welded for the first time today!

[DarkoNova]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/IMG_0193-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/IMG_0194-1.jpg

Sorry, iPhone pics.

Basically it started out as big blobs of silver goo (not only because it was my first time, but because I was too lazy to grind down the paint and rust to get clean metal :razz:) but I've progressed to somewhat good looking welds. I remember reading that good welds look like a stack of nickels that's "toppled" over. My welds look like chubby nickels. :razz:

Anyone got any pointers or tips? The guy I work with said I was holding the tip too far away so the gas was getting blown away. He also said I need to slow down, but when I did that the welds started to look like big blobs of goo again. It's kinda hard to find the perfect speed.

Anyway, I just posted this because I was excited to finally weld. I want to get some practice under my belt so I can try to notch my stock frame and not have it fall apart/explode while driving. :drive2:

Also, the second pic looked almost perfect when I finished it. Then about 20 minutes later it got some rust colored stuff on it. Dunno wtf that is.

Matt

[72nova]

The rust coming up is probably contamination coming up in the weld. I was the same way when I got my welder, take it slow and clean till you can eat off of it. You will probably be surprised how much better the weld will look. I am in no ways a professional, barely a novice, but be sure of your welds before you do frame work. Happy welding.

[Mathius]

Sorry, iPhone pics.

Basically it started out as big blobs of silver goo (not only because it was my first time, but because I was too lazy to grind down the paint and rust to get clean metal :razz:) but I've progressed to somewhat good looking welds. I remember reading that good welds look like a stack of nickels that's "toppled" over. My welds look like chubby nickels. :razz:

Anyone got any pointers or tips? The guy I work with said I was holding the tip too far away so the gas was getting blown away. He also said I need to slow down, but when I did that the welds started to look like big blobs of goo again. It's kinda hard to find the perfect speed.

Anyway, I just posted this because I was excited to finally weld. I want to get some practice under my belt so I can try to notch my stock frame and not have it fall apart/explode while driving. :drive2:

Also, the second pic looked almost perfect when I finished it. Then about 20 minutes later it got some rust colored stuff on it. Dunno wtf that is.

Matt

The rust colored stuff in your pics is the copper from the wire. It gets deposited on top of and in the crevices of the weld in a MIG weld sometimes.

Your buddy sounds correct about you "long arcing" it. You're too far away from the puddle, so your shielding gas is blown away, and then you get porosity, which is evident in the second pic.

In your first pic, that is not a good weld. Your control of the puddle isn't too bad, but you're not getting penetration on each side of the weld. There is a distinct gap on the top of that photo.

The second one is blurry, hard to see, but from what I could tell it's better than the first one if not for the porosity.

It's hard to give pointers over an internet forum. Basically I'd suggest you have your buddy that can weld run a few beads and then you try to emulate it.

But really once someone shows you the basics, it's up to you to practice. It's the only way to get better.

If your buddy isn't a good teacher and doesn't show you what to look for in a good weld, or what techniques to use, you could have problems. Try to keep a nice tight arc. It's a lot easier to run a stringer bead than to run a bigger puddle (sometimes called a wash). Also, the tighter the arc the easier it is to weld out of position.

Typically most people teach to push the puddle when MIG welding, pull when using flux core, but I find that on thinner materials it's a lot easier to pull when running a bead, particularly vertical down instead of vertical up.

I have 4 welding certs, but I don't weld that often, so sometimes it takes me a while to get back into it, and if I rush it tends to make things worse. I find the hardest part after you don't weld for a while is trying to remember what settings to use.

I personally don't care for MIG welding. It does the job just fine, but it's all in how you set the machine. You set the machine wrong and you're screwed. You have a cheap machine that bird nests or feeds wrong and you're screwed.

I like a TIG welder in my hands where I can control the heat, filler, and motion all myself.

But there's no one process that's better than another. A talented welder can lay down just as good a bead with a stick welder as he can with a Tig or MIG, provided the machines are rated the same. Sometimes the flux necessary for stick welding can be bad in the auto industry because flux isn't something you want in body work, and flux tends to make the weld burn a bit hotter.

That's why we usually recommend people stay away from flux core machines even though they're cheaper than a real mig.

Mathius

[DarkoNova]

I wish I took a picture of his welds before he painted them. They looked awesome.

Thanks for the tips, though. I think I'll try slowing the speed down and "pushing" the puddle. And actually cleaning the metal, lol.

Don't worry, I'm not about to cut my frame and try to notch it with welds like that. :Alchy:

Matt

[Randy67]

There are a few good welding books that help out there. I have the "Welders Handbook" which is pretty good for the beginner. I started out with a flux core MIG welder, but changed it for a gas MIG and won't go back to flux again.

I find that if I take the welded pieces (scrap works best) and cut them apart in cross section, I can better see the weld penetration to know how it looks. Practice will make you better. I started with scrap pieces and worked up to projects. I was able to put the 3-link in my Car myself with some guidance from a friend with 30+ years of experience in welding. It's still holding up after 2 years of autocrossing and street duty, although I still inspect the welds every so often. :fingersx:

[Jim Nilsen]

Do some destructive testing on some of your practice welds so you can see what a weld can do along with grinding them off to practice for easier removal of parts that are already in place.

There are a whole list of things other than striking an arc to weld good welds.Practice at them all.

Most of all the best advice I ever got was to make sure YOU are comfortable and breathing properly when you strike an arc. you will find that some of your worst welds are when you are struggling to see and move the arc and holding your breath.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

Most of all, Have Fun ,especially the first time you catch on fire !!!!!!

[ADaughen]

That's better than what I can do. :D (but that isn't saying much :lol: )

[DarkoNova]

Do some destructive testing on some of your practice welds so you can see what a weld can do along with grinding them off to practice for easier removal of parts that are already in place.

There are a whole list of things other than striking an arc to weld good welds.Practice at them all.

Most of all the best advice I ever got was to make sure YOU are comfortable and breathing properly when you strike an arc. you will find that some of your worst welds are when you are struggling to see and move the arc and holding your breath.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

Most of all, Have Fun ,especially the first time you catch on fire !!!!!!

Funny you should say that. I was welding some more a few days ago and suddenly I felt something really hot on my left ankle. Instead of stopping and seeing wtf was super hot, I just kept welding and assumed the heat would go away. :hammer:

Long story short, somehow some weld splatter got under my pants, into my boots, and under my sock. I now have a scar/burn on my ankle. :smoke:

I tried pushing the weld, but it's definitely too weird for me. Pulling it is easier for me. Unfortunately it still looks like I'm puddling. I tried turning the feed speed down, but it still looked like big blobs of weld. I probably need to just move faster, but for some reason I can't make myself move faster while welding. It just seems like I need to go nice and slow.

Matt

[justasquid]

Just a few pointers from the looking at the pics. One, it appears that your heat is way too low, or your wire feed speed is way too high. You not getting any penetration for one of those reasons. Try adjusting your wire feed slower, if it starts arcing back instead of making a nice "bacon frying" sound, adjust your speed up just a little and increase your heat. Also, the angle appears to be off. It looks like your welding to one piece of steel and not both. if you have a 90 degree angle, as it looks to be, hold the gun at 45 degs and put the wire right in the middle of the two plates. hold your gun just far enough away to see the wire and the puddle and no farther away. this will ensure you have the proper amount of gas getting to the work piece and also the wire will be more tractable. the further you get away, the more the wire has a tendancy to wonder.

A lot of people will argue benifits from push or pull method. I actually hold the gun just about straight to the work piece as Im working, with a slight tilt towards pushing. The problem I have run into with pulling is the welds build up to fast and don't penetrate the steel. You end up with a very round and high crown. Some people can pull it off, but it requires more heat.

One more thing I would suggest. If your not getting penetration, slow the wire speed down and let the wire burn into the metal. Go back to a slight push method and really let the heat build up. If your just starting off and moving right away, stop. Start your arc, let the puddle build up for a second or two, then slowly move the puddle along. As Im welding, I like to use the move, pause method. Basically, I start the weld, let it sit until I see the puddle build up, then move the gun just enough to get the wire just on the edge of the current puddle, then let it sit again. I do this the entire time Im welding. If you keep the movements small enough, you will get a nice looking weld. Like a stack of dimes knocked over. Keep a close eye on the puddle as it is building up. it will take some practice, but as long as your using decent equipment, you should be able to start knocking down decent welds in no time.

[Mathius]

A lot of people will argue benifits from push or pull method. I actually hold the gun just about straight to the work piece as Im working, with a slight tilt towards pushing. The problem I have run into with pulling is the welds build up to fast and don't penetrate the steel. You end up with a very round and high crown. Some people can pull it off, but it requires more heat.

<shrug> Like I said in my post, that's what I was always taught. Pull flux, push gas. But there's nothing wrong with doing things your own way if you can do it and put out a quality product. It's more important to develop a technique that he can do consistently and in more or less any position.

If I had to make an adamant statement about pushing or pulling, I'd say a good welder should be able to do either.

Mathius

[justasquid]

shrug> Like I said in my post, that's what I was always taught. Pull flux, push gas. But there's nothing wrong with doing things your own way if you can do it and put out a quality product. It's more important to develop a technique that he can do consistently and in more or less any position.

If I had to make an adamant statement about pushing or pulling, I'd say a good welder should be able to do either.

I fully agree with ya. My statement wasnt directed at you, just in general, people will prefer one method over anther, and mine is slightly different than most others I've talked to. Different situations call for different methods. I was just trying to say how I would weld the materials he was trying to weld in that given situation. Just from the pics, it looked there wasnt any penetration and the pull method, regardless of what your using, will build up faster and not have as much heat put into the work. The arc tends to just build up the weld and not into the work piece as the push method does. Both methods can work, but if you have a weak welder that won't penetrate, the push method should be better. At least from my experience.

I wasn't disagreeing or anything, just adding my own input.

[Mathius]

I wasn't disagreeing or anything, just adding my own input.

Didn't think you were, but I didn't want the OP to think there were conflicting arguments going on, because that wouldn't really help him.

I do lots of things different than most people. I only use argon in my MIG instead of the 75/25 most people use for steel. I get good welds and have no issues. But I have been called out for it on the fabrication forum and some people even will try to claim it doesn't work, but I've been doing it for 8 years.

Mathius