Japanese 5x114 wheels on my A-body. Spacers Pros/Cons

[RYU]

I know i'm posting this at a risk of getting flamed to death. :machine:

So just do me a favor and keep it mature while you hear me out. Maybe there's something I haven't thought through.

I have 3 sets of Japanese wheels from previous cars. All in varying offsets ranging from +30 through + 45 and varying widths from 7.5" to 10"; all staggered. These came off all RWD i've owned throughout the years. Theoretically 2 of these sets that would fit my Chevelle EXCEPT for the offsets of course.

I'm considering buying a set of spacers/adapters which converts the 4.75" GM bolt pattern to the 5x114 JDM pattern. This will cost me less than $300 for a set of 4 (much cheaper than new rims entirely). Rough measurements tells me I'll need approx a 2" front and a 3" rear spacers. Which is a whole lot of spacer! I have new wheel studs in the front but I have old wheel studs in the rear. I also don't see this as much different than installing newer C5/C6 corvette wheels on a Camaro/Chevelle. What should I be concered about when running spacers this thick? Am I missing something here?

Just in case you were wondering...
Why don't I sell them? Because I still have the imports and I really would like to keep the sets I have already.

Why don't I buy a fresh set of wheels for my Chevelle? I may have to but the economy isn't quite so hot right now and my pocket fells smaller than it was before.

[buickfunnycar.com]

What do the wheels in question look like...?
There are plenty of reputable companies producing spacers,2-3"+ shouldn't be an issue.

[RYU]

What do the wheels in question look like...?
There are plenty of reputable companies producing spacers,2-3"+ shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks John. I've gotten mixed reviews on spacers but i've never seen/read any that have actually failed. On the contrary i've seen some high HP wide-body Porsches use them.

I've also read many of your posts. Glad to know there are fellow wheel whores lurking in these forums ;)

Since you asked... Not sure if any of these would look good on the 66 Chevelle but since I have them already it's worth a test fit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/P1020821-1.jpg

Super lightweight on these...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/P1030625-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/IMG_0110-2.jpg

[Apogee]

Nice collection you've got there.

You are correct that it is very similar to running C5/C6 wheels, except that the wheels you have are actually medium offset versus high, not that it really matters. The fact that you're reducing your wheel pattern bolt circle diameter means that your stud loading is going to increase over what it is now, so an ARP upgrade would be wise IMHO, as well as a step up in size from 7/16-20 to M12x1.5 or 1/2-20 on the Chevelle. The center bore size difference should be an issue so long as the thickness of the adapters is sufficient to clear the snout of the hubs you are running.

I don't know that I'd run four spacers that didn't cost at least $100 each, but I prefer to have torque rings and hub centric rings on my adapters. We made our own for our Nova project with C6 wheels and found that we can't make them to our standards for less than what other companies are selling them for...ouch. The quality of aftermarket adapters/spacers seems to vary widely in my experience though.

Tobin
KORE3

[buickfunnycar.com]

Super lightweight on these...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/P1030625-1.jpg

Nice cars...those might look real nice on the 'Velle.:yum:

[DriverzInc]

I actually like both designs shown... first kind of reminds me of the split five spoke from Fikse.
Run your adapters, keep your lugs torqued to spec, and enjoy them until you want to buy new ones.

[RYU]

Thanks for the helpful and positive comments guys. Once i've got some additional disposable income Rushforths, or dare I say HREs, are definitely on the buy list for me.

Tobin, I've got some questions for you if you don't mind.

The fact that you're reducing your wheel pattern bolt circle diameter means that your stud loading is going to increase over what it is now, so an ARP upgrade would be wise IMHO, as well as a step up in size from 7/16-20 to M12x1.5 or 1/2-20 on the Chevelle.
With my recent front A-arm failure (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277018) i'm definitely more concerned about beefing up key parts. Can you point me to where I can source the ARP studs? Is this something I can purchase from you? I have a factory 10-bolt for now but have not upgraded to Kore3 brakes yet.



The center bore size difference should be an issue so long as the thickness of the adapters is sufficient to clear the snout of the hubs you are running.
I'm hoping having it bolt centric is enough here?



I don't know that I'd run four spacers that didn't cost at least $100 each, but I prefer to have torque rings and hub centric rings on my adapters. We made our own for our Nova project with C6 wheels and found that we can't make them to our standards for less than what other companies are selling them for...ouch. The quality of aftermarket adapters/spacers seems to vary widely in my experience though.

Tobin
KORE3
I hear you on this one. Sometimes i'm amazed at how cheap some of these guys are able to make stuff given the Time & Materials costs. A buddy has had good luck with a vendor locally. Just not sure if they can machine up the center hub bore - i guess it's just a matter of price :). Haven't really started researching spacers yet.

[Apogee]

I've seen pics of your LCA...that's an impressive failure. Glad you're okay and the car survived to roll another day.

ARP studs are readily available through Summit Racing if you're placing an order with them, but you should probably select studs as part of your adapter design since length will play a part. The 5x4.75 pattern is going to be stressed less than the 5x114mm, so I'd run the bigger/better studs in the adapter at a minimum. Usually, we'll run the long racing studs and shorten them if needed, such as instances like the inner stud pattern on a car equipped with adapters. We stock certain ARP studs that we use with our billet hubs, so that's what we usually end up using.

Lug-centric is okay...hub-centric is better IMO. Most import wheels are designed to be mounted on hub-centric applications, so maintaining that makes a certain amount of sense to me. With studs and tapered lug nuts it's certainly less critical than applications that use wheel bolts, but I like the additional peace of mind that comes with being hub-centric. In truth though, most hub-centric applications are going to have several thousandths clearance between the pilot register and the wheel center bore for a clearance fit, so the only way it would actually weight the register would be if the wheel studs failed and allowed the wheel to move, which they shouldn't if torqued properly.

A hub-centric boss on the adapter requires a little more design time, material, and machine time, but is well worth it if it's an option and the hub allows. The torque rings are simple to add on a lathe or mill, don't require any additional material, and go a long way towards keeping your lug nuts properly torqued. Any time you're dealing with your wheels, better safe than sorry.

Tobin
KORE3

[Dante]

nsx and the s2000 were the onle good cars that honda produced.
very well maintained.
-nice

[RYU]

I've seen pics of your LCA...that's an impressive failure. Glad you're okay and the car survived to roll another day.

ARP studs are readily available through Summit Racing if you're placing an order with them, but you should probably select studs as part of your adapter design since length will play a part. The 5x4.75 pattern is going to be stressed less than the 5x114mm, so I'd run the bigger/better studs in the adapter at a minimum. Usually, we'll run the long racing studs and shorten them if needed, such as instances like the inner stud pattern on a car equipped with adapters. We stock certain ARP studs that we use with our billet hubs, so that's what we usually end up using.

Lug-centric is okay...hub-centric is better IMO. Most import wheels are designed to be mounted on hub-centric applications, so maintaining that makes a certain amount of sense to me. With studs and tapered lug nuts it's certainly less critical than applications that use wheel bolts, but I like the additional peace of mind that comes with being hub-centric. In truth though, most hub-centric applications are going to have several thousandths clearance between the pilot register and the wheel center bore for a clearance fit, so the only way it would actually weight the register would be if the wheel studs failed and allowed the wheel to move, which they shouldn't if torqued properly.

A hub-centric boss on the adapter requires a little more design time, material, and machine time, but is well worth it if it's an option and the hub allows. The torque rings are simple to add on a lathe or mill, don't require any additional material, and go a long way towards keeping your lug nuts properly torqued. Any time you're dealing with your wheels, better safe than sorry.

Tobin
KORE3
Gotcha! thanks Tobin. On a different note, you'll be expecting a call from me regarding a C5 brake package soon enough. Just didn't expect i'd need to replace virtually everything on the Chevelle so soon. Can't really ask for too much from a 43 yo car though.

:hammer:

[RYU]

Mocked up the front suspension (SC&C Stage II Plus & CPP tubular LCAs) tonight. Decided to mock up the wheels as well. Much to my surprise, it doesn't look half bad... I'm sure opinions will vary.

Just slightly lower than ride height probably here.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/P1030798-1.jpg

This is with the bumpstops touching the frame.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/P1030828-1.jpg

...now back to the engine swap. i'll have a month or two to think about wheels.

[MonzaRacer]

http://www.skulte.com/index.php/cPath/21


READthe FAQ, as they can do just about any thickness and even bolt pattern changes too. Good stuff, very solid and tough.

[Restomod]

You do know that the 5x114.3 BP is plain ole Ford 5x4.5 right........ I like the look!

[Twentyover]

.............. The torque rings are simple to add on a lathe or mill, don't require any additional material, and go a long way towards keeping your lug nuts properly torqued. ................
Tobin
KORE3

RYU- sorry for a diversion of your thread


Tobin-

I should know this but don't. What is a torque ring?

[Apogee]

...I should know this but don't. What is a torque ring?

That's a pertinent hijack as far as hijacks go...and I've gotten a few PM's about it as well. A torque ring is a generic term for a feature on the wheel pad that used to be a raised ring around the wheel stud holes in a stamped steel wheel (hence the name), however have evolved into pockets around the wheel stud holes in most modern aluminum wheels.

These features serve to better distribute the contact force caused by the lug nuts to the mounting surface. Without them, you would get a very high contact stress in the material immediately around the wheel studs and much lower stresses everywhere else. With use and time, this tends to cause localized material yielding/failure which subsequently causes the preload torque on the wheel studs to decrease. Worst case scenario is loose wheels, broken wheel studs, crashed car, etc.

FWIW, Skulte is no longer doing custom adapters or spacers according to their website. You can Andris Skulte's explanation here: http://www.skulte.com/about_us.php

Tobin
KORE3

[Twentyover]

A couple of the (cast) aluminum wheels I have (I'm thinking about the Panasports I run on the race car) have a steel lug cast? shrunk? into the wheel disc. Assuming this performs the function of the torque ring. The Minilite copies from PSE are the old straight shank w/ washer, again, I'm guessing the washer performs the torque ring function.

[hechtrod]

SSR's for me! Nice Japanese cars! :)

[RYU]

SSR's for me! Nice Japanese cars! :)In thinking about it some I think i'd like to save the SSRs for a dedicated track set. They're very light but also prone to cracking. Not sure if they can hold up well to the 3900lb Chevelle. Thanks for the positive comments. Wasn't expected to hear any really :)

Twentyover - that's my understanding as well although i've never given them much thought until now. this also makes it super important that the proper lugs are fitted (acorn, flat, round, etc...)

[86Cutlass383SR]

I have been looking to buy a set of adapters myself after I get my needed thickness figured out. Skulte was one I was looking very seriously at but since they quit making them....Ummm...welll.....the search goes on...

I got a link to this site somewhere's but I haven't dealt with them. I thought I'd throw them in the pot and see if anyone has heard/dealt with them. They also do differing stud patterns. I'm going from the GM 4.75 to the BMW 120mm.

http://adaptitusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=19

Looks like same materials Skulte was using but I know machining can make a big differance.

Opinions?

[RYU]

I bought mine from here before. Will probably buy from them again.
http://performancewheel.com/spacers.cfm?category=6&gacid=

The milling/lathe work was top notch. However, Tobin mentioned about the torque rings. I don't believe these were equipped with them. I used the wrong lug nut (thread was right, wrong seat) on one of the holes and it ate through some of the aluminum. It concerned me but with the right lugs it was no longer a problem. The same would happen on soft aluminum wheels as well. I've accidentally used the wrong lugs on soft aluminum wheels in my old, uneducated days and I noticed the same thing happen.