Accel dual sync distributor installation ,HELP

[Jim Nilsen]

Has anyone here installed a dual sync distributor?

I keep reading the instructions and laugh at the lack of logic and common sense.

There are 2 ways to do it ,in the engine and out of the engine. Which is easier and do you have a more striaght forward way other than the instructions?

I am going to contact them for more help but they are very hard to get in contact with.

If you are in the Rockford ,Il. area and want to come over and help out it would be even better. The learning curve on this taking up too much time for the deadline I have to get running.

Thanks

[EFI69Cam]

The whole idea behind dual sync is to provide the computer with cam and crank position. The distributor turns once for every two turns of the crank. The cam sensor is "on" for half the rotation and off for the other half. On is 1843, off is 6572.

The idea is to use the leds to set the rotor to the position the dist should be in at TDC, then drop it in the engine while at TDC. The phasing operation is to allow the ecm enough lead time before the rotor gets to the contact on the cap to give the control range over the advance.

[Jim Nilsen]

The whole idea behind dual sync is to provide the computer with cam and crank position. The distributor turns once for every two turns of the crank. The cam sensor is "on" for half the rotation and off for the other half. On is 1843, off is 6572.

The idea is to use the leds to set the rotor to the position the dist should be in at TDC, then drop it in the engine while at TDC. The phasing operation is to allow the ecm enough lead time before the rotor gets to the contact on the cap to give the control range over the advance.

The principal of it is easy ,what I am confused about the most is where to start with the adjustment on the rotor for the cam. The slot moves the rotor agreat deal and to set up for #1 do you start with the rotor in the middle or all the way retarded so you can advance it? orsome other place? When I put the cap and and main body to the #1 position and drop the distributor in?

I know it is so simple and I am just missing it by one detail, the real starting point.

From what you are saying is that you do the setup out of the engine and it is the easiest?

The instructions are just confusing enough to make me doubt what I would normally do.

When you are doing the install instruction for in the engine and they tell you to do steps and then put it in when it is already in or in the uninstalled directions tell you to turn the engine, it makes me wonder what way they are using.

If you can give your step by step out of the engine I believe I can do it easily.

Thanks for you help !!!

[EFI69Cam]

I'll study the instructions again tonight. Its been awhile since I set mine up, and mine is just being used as a cam and crank sensor now.

I'll check back with you, it sounds like the rotor phasing part is what's giving you fits?

Another bit of advice, the best time to call the Accel tech is right when they open at 8am est.

[Mike Holleman]

I'll study the instructions again tonight. Its been awhile since I set mine up, and mine is just being used as a cam and crank sensor now.

I'll check back with you, it sounds like the rotor phasing part is what's giving you fits?

Another bit of advice, the best time to call the Accel tech is right when they open at 8am est.

I just did one of these as part of a Thruster DFI installation. Accel's instructions suck!! Their techs are hard to reach and frankly did not impress me much. Most of my help on this install came from Frank at Prodigy. The distributor setup was fairly easy but the instructions are very hard to follow. I suggest having a helper read them to you as you go.
Mike

[Hammered]

I agree that the Gen7 instructions stink. I generally had to read each step several times to comprehend what they were trying to convey. I followed the instructions on pgs 35-37 and everything worked the first time. On the initial setup before installing in the hole, I marked the body with a sharpie at the location the rotor pointed to. This made it easier to get the rotor, body and oil pump shaft where I wanted them on the install step.

[RSX302]

I just did mine recently so its fresh in my head. (also got the instructions for reference) Also an FYI. Does your distributor have silicone on both Hall sensors? If not make sure you put some on. I went thru this issue on my previous distributor and a prong on one of the sensors broke on the circuit board and created havok. That was fun to find!

You have distributor phasing and rotor phasing. Rotor phasing is the adjustment screw on the base for the rotor. (Shouldn't need to touch from factory, mine was around the middle of the adjustment range)

Distibutor Phasing:
With the ign on and the coil disconnected, (distributor out) start out by positioning the rotor so that both red and blue LED lights are on. Rotate the rotor in the direction of a running engine until the blue LED light turns off. This indicates the falling edge of the cam trigger. (Red Light should still be on) Continue to rotate rotor in the same direction until the red light turns off. This is the crank trigger. Stop as soon as the red LED tuns off and mark the distributor rotor tip location on the base. This is your #1 cylinder and set at TDC. Install distributor and make sure your engine is at #1 TDC. Be carefull not to be 180 out. (Ask me how I know this, It's not hard to do if your in a hurry..DOH) Make sure both LED's are out at this time and lock down. I turn the distributor a little advanced and lock the ECU to 20 deg. Finish setting once running with a timing light to 20degs to match ECU and you should be done.

[Jim Nilsen]

Thanks for the replies guy's. How Accel could make such poor instructions for such a straight forward thing to do.

I'll give it a try tonight after going over the instructions I have now.

Thanks again and we will see how I do ?

[EFI69Cam]

RSX302 has it nailed, thats exactly what I did.

[Jim Nilsen]

I just did mine recently so its fresh in my head. (also got the instructions for reference) Also an FYI. Does your distributor have silicone on both Hall sensors? If not make sure you put some on. I went thru this issue on my previous distributor and a prong on one of the sensors broke on the circuit board and created havok. That was fun to find!

You have distributor phasing and rotor phasing. Rotor phasing is the adjustment screw on the base for the rotor. (Shouldn't need to touch from factory, mine was around the middle of the adjustment range)

Distibutor Phasing:
With the ign on and the coil disconnected, (distributor out) start out by positioning the rotor so that both red and blue LED lights are on. Rotate the rotor in the direction of a running engine until the blue LED light turns off. This indicates the falling edge of the cam trigger. (Red Light should still be on) Continue to rotate rotor in the same direction until the red light turns off. This is the crank trigger. Stop as soon as the red LED tuns off and mark the distributor rotor tip location on the base. This is your #1 cylinder and set at TDC. Install distributor and make sure your engine is at #1 TDC. Be carefull not to be 180 out. (Ask me how I know this, It's not hard to do if your in a hurry..DOH) Make sure both LED's are out at this time and lock down. I turn the distributor a little advanced and lock the ECU to 20 deg. Finish setting once running with a timing light to 20degs to match ECU and you should be done.

Hi Ron, did you actually go past the first red light going out and then to next red light and out. The accel instructions read,that you should rotate the housing UNTIL THE RED LED SHUTS OFF COMES ON AGAIN AND THEN SHUTS OFF.

I have done it both ways with no success.

Thanks for any help you give.

When I finally get this running I am going to find a place to post some instructions so others can have some that might make more sense if their minds don't think like accels people did.

It really shouldn't be that hard.

[thedugan]

how in the world do you drop it in without turning the rotor?

[Bow Tie 67]

Hi Ron, did you actually go past the first red light going out and then to next red light and out. The accel instructions read,that you should rotate the housing UNTIL THE RED LED SHUTS OFF COMES ON AGAIN AND THEN SHUTS OFF.

I have done it both ways with no success.

Thanks for any help you give.

When I finally get this running I am going to find a place to post some instructions so others can have some that might make more sense if their minds don't think like accels people did.

It really shouldn't be that hard.

Jim,

If you havn't already, try it the way Ron said. It can't get any worse. Screw the crappy instructions they maybe completly wrong.

Matt

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim,

If you havn't already, try it the way Ron said. It can't get any worse. Screw the crappy instructions they maybe completly wrong.

Matt

Hi Matt, I have tried it the way Ron's instructions read 3 times and no luck either.
I am calling Jeff Jasiek in Ogelsby again today to see if he can make it up tonight instead of sometime later in the week. there are 24 hours in a day and I can work on the car during anyone of them. I think the neighbor lady who would normally complain about a loud engine noise in the middle of the night would be as excited as I will be to hear my car run. Did you see the audience you had when you pulled in my drive,lol.

[RSX302]

Hi Matt, I have tried it the way Ron's instructions read 3 times and no luck either.
I am calling Jeff Jasiek in Ogelsby again today to see if he can make it up tonight instead of sometime later in the week. there are 24 hours in a day and I can work on the car during anyone of them. I think the neighbor lady who would normally complain about a loud engine noise in the middle of the night would be as excited as I will be to hear my car run. Did you see the audience you had when you pulled in my drive,lol.


Sorry for the late repost...

Did you end up getting it figured out?

[Jim Nilsen]

Now that it is running and the problem is behind me I know what the problem was.

When I wired the car I put everything in according to each set of instructions. I put my 6A box in before the ecm and I hooked up the red/white stripe wire to the fuse panel at the switched ignition source strip available. I also hooked up the ecm to the same strip when hooking it up.

I had all of the wires in the right places to start with and they are all back in the same place I started.

The problem was in the order in which things have to be connected to program the distributor. You have to have the red/white stripe wire disconnected when programming the distributor and then hook it up after. This is the point in the instructions that say to hook up the pink switched ignition wire to the red/white stripe wire. it should actually read the other way and tell you to hook up the red/white stripe wire to the switched ignition source at that time which would make it more clear as to it not being connected until after the programming of the distributor. Once we disconnected the red/white stripe wire and then followed the directions the new way of understanding the connection order it worked.

The other thing was having to go past the first red light going out and then the light coming on again and going out. this is the way we got it to work instesd of going from the blue light to the red light and the red light going out and then locking it down. The newest online instructions have it correct for the distributor I have.

Last of all the wires to the distributor for the dual sync harness were wrong from the factory and after being switched to the correct place it made the whole thing finally possible to program.

So I learned a lot about Accel and how messed up they are and how good it is to be able to read schematic and have a friend be able to see the same problem and get it fixed.

I don't have any problem with the igniton switch power or the battery being less than 12 volts or any of the other problems that have plagued others at times with these units.

If the instructions would have been more clear on just the hookup of that one wire I would have never had the problem to start with. Do you think they will ever change the online instructions? I don't think they will soon if ever and I challenge them to get off of their butts and spend about ten minutes to add the right terms and sequence in the instructions, that is all it would take me if I had the password to get to the page of instructions. 10 minutes of work would have saved them 4 times that in the time Dave spent with me on the phone and emails. It would have saved me days of pulling my hair out and the tuner would have been a lot happier to start and the time he spent would have been better applied. The excuse that it would cost them money to fix the instructions is ludicrous and I sometimes wonder if they even care, it would save them money and time everyday.

The problem is over and the car starts right up even with the battery at 11.5 volts.

[RSX302]

Now that it is running and the problem is behind me I know what the problem was.

When I wired the car I put everything in according to each set of instructions. I put my 6A box in before the ecm and I hooked up the red/white stripe wire to the fuse panel at the switched ignition source strip available. I also hooked up the ecm to the same strip when hooking it up.

I had all of the wires in the right places to start with and they are all back in the same place I started.

The problem was in the order in which things have to be connected to program the distributor. You have to have the red/white stripe wire disconnected when programming the distributor and then hook it up after. This is the point in the instructions that say to hook up the pink switched ignition wire to the red/white stripe wire. it should actually read the other way and tell you to hook up the red/white stripe wire to the switched ignition source at that time which would make it more clear as to it not being connected until after the programming of the distributor. Once we disconnected the red/white stripe wire and then followed the directions the new way of understanding the connection order it worked.

The other thing was having to go past the first red light going out and then the light coming on again and going out. this is the way we got it to work instesd of going from the blue light to the red light and the red light going out and then locking it down. The newest online instructions have it correct for the distributor I have.

Last of all the wires to the distributor for the dual sync harness were wrong from the factory and after being switched to the correct place it made the whole thing finally possible to program.

So I learned a lot about Accel and how messed up they are and how good it is to be able to read schematic and have a friend be able to see the same problem and get it fixed.

I don't have any problem with the igniton switch power or the battery being less than 12 volts or any of the other problems that have plagued others at times with these units.

If the instructions would have been more clear on just the hookup of that one wire I would have never had the problem to start with. Do you think they will ever change the online instructions? I don't think they will soon if ever and I challenge them to get off of their butts and spend about ten minutes to add the right terms and sequence in the instructions, that is all it would take me if I had the password to get to the page of instructions. 10 minutes of work would have saved them 4 times that in the time Dave spent with me on the phone and emails. It would have saved me days of pulling my hair out and the tuner would have been a lot happier to start and the time he spent would have been better applied. The excuse that it would cost them money to fix the instructions is ludicrous and I sometimes wonder if they even care, it would save them money and time everyday.

The problem is over and the car starts right up even with the battery at 11.5 volts.


Damn dude what the heII…Can’t say I experienced your issues. That definitely sucks when the manufacturer messes up the wiring.

Mine was plug and play and programmed on the fly without disconnecting anything.

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out.

[Hammered]

Was it the two pairs of red & black wires that were switched? I got those turned around when I repinned everything.

[Jim Nilsen]

Was it the two pairs of red & black wires that were switched? I got those turned around when I repinned everything.


On the dual sync harness the cam and crank sensor wires - + were reversed at the weatherpak connectors to the distributor. Look at it one way when you assemble them and they look right, look at the pin location and it tells another story, all you had to do was have them upside down so to speak and it is backwards.

The wire colors also change from white to clear on the signal wires. When harness wires change colors from what the schematic shows it really make syou wonder what the heck they are thinking? I followed them with an ohm meter and Matt did the same thing when he verified they were wrong.

My biggest mistake was believing that they actually might have checked it in a test module and even tho it looked wrong it was functional, NOT.

I talked with Dave about the red/white wire and he said it shouldn't have made a difference if it was hooked up or not but it was connected when we were getting no results and when we did it the last time before it started we had it disconnected. When you read the instructions it says to connect the pink wire to the red/white wire. The red/white wire goes to a switched igniton source and the pink wire comes from the relay that is a switched ignition source. so it would be reasonable to think that the red/white stripe wire would be disconnected otherwise the pink wire just becomes a parallel power source and is not needed?

So why do they put the pink wire there at all? It seems that if you are putting the 6A box under the hood instead of in the cabin with the ecu you would have an easier time with hooking up the switched igniton source without running a seperate wire into the engine bay. Some things make sense when you start to look at the way they build the kits and expect most to install the way the engineers designed the harness. I actually stripped the tape off and the loom and pulled all of the wires for the nitrous and and other items I would never use and bundled them up nicely and kept them out of the way. The harness looks nice and tidy in the engine bay and at any later date the other functions can be added if needed.

All in all I am glad that part is over but the fact that the communication to the laptop has been a problem from the beginning and it didn't seem to care if it was an XP laptop either made Dave at Accel question whether it might be the serial cable with the dongle that could be bad.

I am now at the point of sending my serial cable and ecu back to them and having them reprogram the ecu and check the serial cable to see if it all works correctly. If it is the serail cable that is bad hesaid they will include a new one with the reprogram update and not charge me for the serial cable which is almost $200 itself. So for $245 + shipping and such it will hopefully be able to work with my laptop again.

The big problem I have with all of this is that I really wanted to get it running a lot better before it snows and even tho I made the ecu fairly easy to remove and replace it is still one thing that shouldn't have to be done. This is also the only part that is not working right on my car that the manufactures are not going to warranty because of the date it was bought. I have had the kit from hell and it was an early kit and they know they had problems but are not going to stand behind it like other have with their products. Even meeting me halfway with the cost like Howe did with the throwout bearing would have been ok but to just let me hang with something that doesn't work right has left a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe if I talk to the right person at Accel I might be able to get better results?

I Hope this explains everything better.

[Hammered]

Wow-I guess I got lucky. I will agree that the distributor wiring doesn't match the wiring schematic and that makes diagnosing problems much harder. Documentation is the greatest weakness of the Gen7 by far.

Are you going straight into a serial port on your computer or through and adapter to a USB? There are a lot of folks who have had trouble with the latter.

[RSX302]

I agree that the wiring schematics could be better. The base ECM schematic is ok, but for the most part I was able to complete. The only thing I still need to address is the A/C cutout circuit. Haven't found a wiring diagram for this and haven't been able to get working. I'll start a new post for that.

[Jim Nilsen]

Wow-I guess I got lucky. I will agree that the distributor wiring doesn't match the wiring schematic and that makes diagnosing problems much harder. Documentation is the greatest weakness of the Gen7 by far.

Are you going straight into a serial port on your computer or through and adapter to a USB? There are a lot of folks who have had trouble with the latter.

I am going thru an adapter and it was working but now it isn't?

You got me thinking that maybe I need to reload the driver disc and see if it will make any difference?