'67 GTO - new suspension and wheels

[67 goat]

Just installed a Stage 1 plus kit from Marcus at SC&C, new lower front controls arms (to move the wheels forward a bit so the tires wouldn't rub), SPC springs and Bilstein shocks all around, Hellwig 1" rear sway bar, and Vintage wheel works V40s, 17x9.5 rear with 285/40s and 17x8 fronts with 245/45 NItto 555r's. I must admit, after 3 solid hours of measuring and re-measuring, I nailed the backspacing, both front and rear. The rears fit perfect and have about 3/8-1/2" clearance inside and out. Vintage wheel works is one of the best deals going for custom backspacing.

I knew it would handle great, but wow.....it's unbelievable! It easily out handles my '94 mustang GT (bone stock except for 17x9 Cobra R's with crappy 245/45 Sumitomos). Granted, I don't have any data to back that up, but it shouldn't be too surprising I guess, since they weigh about the same, the GTO sits lower (not sure about roll center or CG though), and the tires are WAY better. Plus my mustang has 260k miles on it, so the suspension bushings, springs and shocks might not be as good as they could be!

The last 2 pictures are before and after, in the garage. The "after" stance in this picture is perfect, atlhough after driving it some miles, it settled and I think the rear might be a little low for my taste now, maybe 1/2" low (see 1st two pics). Any reason not to turn a spacer on the lathe to fit between the bottom of the rear spring and top of the axle perch to add a half of an inch? It does sit almost perfectly level, which I like, but I don't like how much the rear tire is "tucked" into the fender. I guess I'm torn.

Thanks for all the help with the suspension stuff Marcus!

I ordered a hyrdoboost for the brakes since my 236/242 duration cam doesn't make much vacuum for the booster. Next winter I'll upgrade the discs and calipers, front and rear, but I'm still deciding what system(s) to run. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Roger M]

Nice Goat! Great choice on the wheels. I like the retro look on these better than the current style of wheels you see on PT style cars. IMHO the stance in back looks awesome as is. I would tend to want the nose down maybe a half to one inch. But that's my personal taste. Regardless, that A-body looks sweet. Nice work and welcome to the site.

There are more knowledgeable people on here than I, but as far as brakes go there are a ton of options for you (Baer, Wilwood, CPP, Kore 3, just to name a few).

[65BuickGS]

Sharp looking ride!!!:cool:
What backspace did you use front and rear??

[tripower]

Looks great...I think the stance is perfect.

[Randy67]

I also think the stance is perfect like it is. Maybe the lower rear wheel opening is making it look lower than the front, but the rocker height looks great.

[wmhjr]

Just installed a Stage 1 plus kit from Marcus at SC&C, new lower front controls arms (to move the wheels forward a bit so the tires wouldn't rub), SPC springs and Bilstein shocks all around,
Thanks,
Jeff

OK, so I'm back to working on the suspension on my '66 Goat project again. Have new tubular SPC lowers enroute from Mark to complement the Stage II+ that's already installed.

Can you tell me what spacers you used in your front? I'm assuming you have a Pontiac motor (400?) in there now. Since I'll be running quite a bit of the same stuff you are (most of it already there) even including the springs and shocks, it would be helpful info.

Also curious what you came up with for backspacing for your wheels. I'm going a different wheel route and will use 18s, but it'd be nice to compare notes.

[Norm Peterson]

67 - If you do put a spacer under the spring, extend the short circular ring that locates the pigtail by the same amount. I don't think it is enough taller than 1/2" (if it's even that tall) to keep the spring captive otherwise.

Maybe doing the same sorts of things up top on the chassis side would be less visible. A little tougher to do, perhaps, but I think it'd be worth it.


Norm

[67 goat]

For the front suspension I used the SPC ride height kit with 1 (of 2) steel shim on each side, plus the thick aluminum spacer of course.

As for the wheels, the rears are 9.5" wide with 6.375" of backspacing. The fronts are 8" wide with 4.75" of backspacing. I get a tiny bit of rub in the rear on the inside inner fender well on the driver's side when cornering very, very hard in right hand corners. The tires actually have slightly different spacing on the driver's and passenger's side relative to the frame (inside) and fender lip (outside)......I guess the body isn't perfectly centered on the frame, either that or the rear isn't perfectly centered in the frame (or both). I'll have to look into it, either that or try to fix it by "massaging" the fender well.

Thanks for all the compliments!

Randy, I think you hit the nail on the head. The rocker height is definitely level, and since the tire diameter is nearly identical, it must just be the wheel opening height.....I'll measure it, I'm curious.

[67 goat]

wmhjr, I am running the Pontiac 400.

Long term plans include an LS motor swap at some point though.

[Randy67]

Randy, I think you hit the nail on the head. The rocker height is definitely level, and since the tire diameter is nearly identical, it must just be the wheel opening height.....I'll measure it, I'm curious.

My wheelwells are the same on my El Camino, higher in the front than the rear. But, my isn't level, the rear is still a bit higher. That is a future project to level it out more, like your car is.

[wmhjr]

wmhjr, I am running the Pontiac 400.

Long term plans include an LS motor swap at some point though.

Ah, man, don't do it! Build that poncho block. They can make serious power.

[twolfinger]

Nice Goat! I noticed your NH plates. Where in NH? I am in Bedford. I am building a 67 GS400 vert that is in another thread and just ordered by my StageII kit as well.

As for brakes, I just ordered a bracket from Rich Hoag on the board for $50 shipped that will allow us to run LS1 front discs from a 98-2002 TA\SS\Z28. They are better than C4 brakes and maybe a tad drop off from C5 brakes. I just purchased a complete used LS1 brake setup on EBay for $79 shipped. How can you beat that?

Let me know where you are located, I would love to hookup and get a first hand look at your car, since it is a sister to my car. Some mind sharing would be awesome.

My $.02, I couldn't blame you for leaving the stance as is, looks good, but my preference is a slight rake, taller tire in the back? Drop it a 1/2 in the front? I wouldn't raise the suspension anymore in the back though.

Tom

[67 goat]

Ah, man, don't do it! Build that poncho block. They can make serious power.

They can, but it costs too much money, plus the Pontiac blocks really aren't all that great (in my opinion). To get both HP and driveability, you'd have to first start with a hyd. roller cam, then do heads, and I'd definitely want EFI. The good aftermarket EFI kits, like Edelbrock Pro-Flo for example are $3500 alone, not to mention a couple grand for heads, and another $1k for a cam kit.

For $4-6k, you can get a pretty low mileage, complete LS2. It's no secret that the LS motors are absolutely unbeleivable from a HP, driveability, and GM factory V8 reliablility perspective. And plopping them into old muscle cars is getting easier every day with both hardware and wiring kits.

I want a reliable, 450+ HP motor that starts and drives perfect everytime all the time. For that, you can't beat the LS motors.

That being said, I guess there's a small part of me that will miss having the Pontiac motor. Does an LS2 from an '05/'06 GTO count?

[67 goat]

Nice Goat! I noticed your NH plates. Where in NH? I am in Bedford. I am building a 67 GS400 vert that is in another thread and just ordered by my StageII kit as well.

As for brakes, I just ordered a bracket from Rich Hoag on the board for $50 shipped that will allow us to run LS1 front discs from a 98-2002 TA\SS\Z28. They are better than C4 brakes and maybe a tad drop off from C5 brakes. I just purchased a complete used LS1 brake setup on EBay for $79 shipped. How can you beat that?

Let me know where you are located, I would love to hookup and get a first hand look at your car, since it is a sister to my car. Some mind sharing would be awesome.

My $.02, I couldn't blame you for leaving the stance as is, looks good, but my preference is a slight rake, taller tire in the back? Drop it a 1/2 in the front? I wouldn't raise the suspension anymore in the back though.

Tom


Just sent you a PM. Although I just noticed it's not showing up in my "sent" messages. Let me know if you didn't get it.

-Jeff

[wmhjr]

They can, but it costs too much money, plus the Pontiac blocks really aren't all that great (in my opinion). To get both HP and driveability, you'd have to first start with a hyd. roller cam, then do heads, and I'd definitely want EFI. The good aftermarket EFI kits, like Edelbrock Pro-Flo for example are $3500 alone, not to mention a couple grand for heads, and another $1k for a cam kit.

For $4-6k, you can get a pretty low mileage, complete LS2. It's no secret that the LS motors are absolutely unbeleivable from a HP, driveability, and GM factory V8 reliablility perspective. And plopping them into old muscle cars is getting easier every day with both hardware and wiring kits.

I want a reliable, 450+ HP motor that starts and drives perfect everytime all the time. For that, you can't beat the LS motors.

That being said, I guess there's a small part of me that will miss having the Pontiac motor. Does an LS2 from an '05/'06 GTO count?

I understand, and you're right about some of the comments. It takes money and effort to build a traditional pontiac motor. I personally prefer to do it that way, because no, an LS2 from an '05/6 Holden GTO does not qualify as a Poncho motor. It's a corporate motor. Just hate to see a GTO lose its heritage. But everyone has their own tastes. I don't want EFI for example. Nothing wrong with the pontiac blocks, though. Just don't try to build one for 9000rpm driving.

BTW, I'm running the Stage II+ setup from SC&C plus (as of today) the SPC tubular lowers as well in front (and Currectrac in the back). Nice stuff!

As an aside, make sure you really think through the LS2 install. You're going to find that your GTO is a little different in a few ways from the other A-Bodys, It can end up causing some issues to work out. Examples? Different center link, pitman and idler arms for the steering.

[67 goat]

I understand, and you're right about some of the comments. It takes money and effort to build a traditional pontiac motor. I personally prefer to do it that way, because no, an LS2 from an '05/6 Holden GTO does not qualify as a Poncho motor. It's a corporate motor. Just hate to see a GTO lose its heritage. But everyone has their own tastes. I don't want EFI for example. Nothing wrong with the pontiac blocks, though. Just don't try to build one for 9000rpm driving.

BTW, I'm running the Stage II+ setup from SC&C plus (as of today) the SPC tubular lowers as well in front (and Currectrac in the back). Nice stuff!

As an aside, make sure you really think through the LS2 install. You're going to find that your GTO is a little different in a few ways from the other A-Bodys, It can end up causing some issues to work out. Examples? Different center link, pitman and idler arms for the steering.

I knew the GTO LS2 didn't count.....I was just joking.

Congrats on the Stage 2 plus! Let us know how you like it and post some pics! I'm considering doing the currectrac rear upper and lowers as well. I assume it all bolted it in with no issues? Post pics if you have them. I'm considering doing that as well in the near future.

[wmhjr]

Check out my thread about the build at https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53926. You can also see more detailed pics at http://photobucket.com/1966Pontiac . The Stage 2+ has been installed for months now - I just added the lower front A-Arms yesterday. There are a few tricks I've found, but for the most part it's been pretty easy. The rear Currie stuff was extremely easy and was mostly bolt-in. I have a Moser crate rear end, and needed a couple spacers for the upper control arm mounts, but that was about it. Of course, I have not yet dealt with pinion angles, so adjustment is not complete.

You actually helped me out by posting when you did. I was able to see your car stance with all the same front components (even down to the Bilsteins) except I have the Stage II+ which sits about 1/2 to 3/4" lower yet. So using the same spacers gave me what I was looking for.

[tripower]

I understand, and you're right about some of the comments. It takes money and effort to build a traditional pontiac motor. I personally prefer to do it that way, because no, an LS2 from an '05/6 Holden GTO does not qualify as a Poncho motor. It's a corporate motor. Just hate to see a GTO lose its heritage. But everyone has their own tastes. I don't want EFI for example. Nothing wrong with the pontiac blocks, though. Just don't try to build one for 9000rpm driving.

I tend to agree with you on this one. I am a big fan of traditional Poncho power under a Pontiac's hood. (...and a Buick in a Buick, Olds in an Olds, etc.) I personally like to see creative projects to update the non-Chevy or "corporate" engines GM offered such as adding EFI or aluminum heads. All the GM engines had their strong and weak points. Pontiac, Buick and Olds are all about torque and can easily and reliably produce 450+ HP and start and drive as a modern LS engine will. Building an "off make" isn't cheap or easy but I think it is rewarding. Just my opinion. I do however respect and admire the work that any gear head puts into their ride no matter what is under the hood.

To the OP, it would be cool if you grabbed the fuel rail covers off a late model GTO as they say "GTO" on them to dress up the LS engine under the hood. There was an episode of "Street Customs" last week where West Coast Customs mated an 06 GTO suspension and driveline to a 69 GTO body. It turned out pretty well.

[gearheads78]

Car looks killer...If anything just about 1/2 more down in front.

I have the oppisite problem with basicly the same setup. I used Eibach springs and the rear is too high. I already trimmed 1/2 of a coil because it was way to high. I'm afraid to trim any more until I get some more miles to be sure dose not settle. Right now it only has about 100 miles since on the road last week.