Pro-Touring + HellaFlush = Ill-Touring

[hechtrod]

So, I wanted to throw this idea out to you guys. Pro-Touring cars are 1 of my 2 favorite build styles. I thought, how cool would it be to mix in some HellaFlush style (I explain HellaFlush in the story if you've never heard of it before). See what you guys think?

http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/pro-touring-hellaflush-ill-touring/

Am I nuts or on to something cool? Sound off!

Hechtrod

[LateNight72]

Fugly. It looks like you can't properly backspace a wheel, so you just said F%#@ it and put it on. It doesn't look aggressive, it looks retarded.

I also have a hard time believing the Japanese Drifting roots. I've seen this treatment on V-Dub's LONG before I have any drifters, except their stuff was a little more realistic.

Another thing that winds me up is these too small of tires on large rims. For instance, putting a 215 on a 8". Does somehow imitating a sport bike look cool?

[formula]

alright, here's my thought process....granted, i am way too far into the ol' happy happy drink to necessarily be fully coherent here.

I personally think that a LOT of high-profile builds are WAY too far inset when it comes to wheels, and that a little more fender roll plus a little more pushed-out wheel is a great idea...but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and taken from a purely pragmatic scale, the generally-flat, straight-angled design of p-t cars' fenderwells lends itself to a LITTLE bit of tuck. Not much, mind you, but at least a wee might.

[Memphis]

Being flush is nice but the crazy negative camber and stretched tires should stay with the watercoolers and drifters.

[79-TA]

Just don't ever use the term "hella" again.

[venturabeachpup]

Am I nuts or on to something cool? Sound off!

Hechtrod[/QUOTE]


To answer your question honestly... you're nuts! LOL:screwy:

[BritishGreen68]

Ive been thinking this very thing. I am into the euro "look" vw scene as well as pro touring and mini trucks/full size truck with air bags. So, if you put them all together you would get some cool looking stuff i think. I am building my camaro about half pro touring and half mini truck, so it will have big brakes and stuff like that but also be able to lay out on 20's. It takes some serious work to be able to get the right wheel look though, the euro/import scene is all about stretch tires and "poke" and to do that on a muscle car could possibly look cool but would be difficult to achieve. You need super stiff suspension for one because the lip of the wheel usually protrudes past the fender lip (in the back) and alot of travel will make it rub.. i want to se some pics of this style on a muscle car.. here is my old golf for referance, had 16x9" wheels with 205's and plenty of poke...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/DSCN1651-1.jpg
And one of the few pics i have of the camaro with the wheels mocked up, pretty standard wheel fitment but i wanted the bagged/dropped look..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/00211-1.jpg

[dipren443]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/DSCN1651-1.jpg



Beautiful MK2!!! I miss mine. That car was an absolute blast to toss around.

[slowcamaro]

Flush is ok...stretched tires not so hot.

[Rhino]

With that much wider of a wheel, and increasing your offset, don't you wreak havoc on the scrub radius on the front suspension?
Later on you mention serious negative camber, stretching tires, stiff adjustable coil overs.
All of which could decrease performance if you'd let it. Everything mentioned here is great if you're wanting the car to slide sideways half the time. But that's exactly what most of us are trying to avoid.

To me it seems that you're making decisions for looks over performance. The antithesis of how I'd define pro-touring.

[Twentyover]

Tires are designed to work on a given rim width. Mounting on widths outside the design compromises performance.

While I like pushing the wheels out as far as you can in the wheelwells, this is a case of looks compromising function. Possibly safety also (I can se the bead unseating when the tire is heavily loaded.)

No more appeal to me than putting flourescent lights on the car

[megaladon6]

here's the real difference. the hellaflush (does that come from the owners flushing money down the toilet?) cars can't drive on anything but dead perfect roads. try that in NY!! if the suspension is stiff enough to keep things from hitting, you get a broken spine.
at least pro-touring can be driven on real roads.

[nightrunner]

bad idea, most of us here, including me prefer performance over looks, but good looks are good as long as it doesnt hurt performance too bad.

and i think the hellaflush thing looks awful so its a no go

[novanutcase]

Aesthetically it looks cool but I have to agree with the others in that you'll be sacraficing both performance and safety for it.

If you're just gonna cruise it then cool but then you don't need all the upgrades that PTings about!

John

[parsonsj]

It seems to me that this technique will virtually assure that the tires rub on the fender. What am I missing?

jp

[novaderrik]

wow.. back in '93 when my buddy put wheels on his 79 Mustang Ghia notchback that poked out past the fenderwells and had way too small tires on them- 15X8 with 205/50 tires- he was actually starting a trend? he didn't do it on purpose- the wheel place ordered the wrong offset and he could only afford those tires at the time and the guy at the tire shop said it wouldn't look retarded...
with the K40 cb antenna on the tunk lid, it looked like a radio controlled car and we all made fun of him and his slow funnly looking 351W powered RC car- now that very car would be called "hella flush" and at least one person would think it looks hella cool...

[MarkM66]

It seems to me that this technique will virtually assure that the tires rub on the fender. What am I missing?

jp

You're missing nothing. It'll equal hella tire rub.

Let's get real...

[hechtrod]

Wow, appreciate all the comments. I knew this idea would get people commenting. I do agree that some function is lost if you go crazy flush. But, that's the beauty of adjustable suspension, slam down for super flush for the cruise or show.
I really dig the Pro-Touring crowd and how you guys drive the crap out of these cars. But, if you get into the flush crowd, you'll see they're hitting the drift days, track days as well as shows.
I love it all! :) Again, thanks for the comments. Keep 'em coming!
Chris

[FirstGenZq8]

i'm torn. i like the RX7 on your webpage, but the below pic just looks dangerous to me.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/hellaflush-1.jpg

[class67]

i'm torn. i like the RX7 on your webpage, but the below pic just looks dangerous to me.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/hellaflush-1.jpg


:bsjerk:...LOL, this reminds me of the 80's when the mini-truck guys were running 8 1/2" or 9" rims with 205/50's...you had to use ether to mount the tires. They all had some kind of damage to the fenders from rubbing...

[tymbom]

Sorry dude, that looks really stupid... Those watercoolers and minitrucks always have the most retarded sense of style. The whole point of wide wheels is for wide tires. Did I miss something? Why stretch a tire to fit the wheel that is too wide?? Why not get the correct size tire??:idea:

[mone]

this is just a spinoff from the VIP or bippu style ran over yonder..It has some good visual elements if done right but there are many involved who like to go extreme.Its a different style but hey mix and match is what hot rods are about!

[bigvegan]

This is pro-touring.com (www.pro-touring.com), I think you might try submitting those pics here (failblog.org).

:enguard:

Seriously though, if you want to see drifting style properly applied to American muscle, here's how it's done:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=107880
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chv6rF4cHuc

[hechtrod]

I love that Falken Camaro! Thanks for posting! But, those wheels could sit a little more flush and it'd give it the "look" and have a wider track.

I'm lovin' the comments! Keep 'em coming.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

hmmm...


its a "young boy" mentality to car modification.. and trust me i know what it was like.. my old 96 GTI was one of the founders of the "down and out look"

check my sig..


I think one thing you dont realize about us ProTouring our cars are primarily about performance.. and less about look.

looks, yes.. Performance.. HELL YES.. and that is a priority for most of us diehards.. even if i do somewhat like stretched tires.

and thats a mans mentality of car modification in my opinion.

[Roadrage David]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/DSCN1651-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/00211-1.jpg



This is called the GERMAN LOOK ore STILE in Europe its been known and done for the last 15/20 years ore so years. in the euro tunning seen.

here is a frensh link with pict http://toptuning.xooit.com/t15-Le-Topic-Du-German-Look.htm http://www.vwtuningmag.com/volkswagen-gti-performance-concept/

Personaly i think its redicules . those guys overhere in europe are the worced Pro-touring/usa car enemys there are. we have been trying to miks and sosialize umongst them and there ignorense tought about ""there"" cars being superior (NOT) is beond belive.
So from ""my"" point of vieuw take your hella ore german stile somwhere els, and please lets not miks this kind of crap euro tunning into our pro-touring cars... i have seen a lot more of that strange behavier on this forum over the last couple of years .people trying to introduce all sorts of aditations and rediculess cars to the Pro-touring seen as if its a ugly step child looking for a new ore diferend identety. God am i glad with the rize of the ""street fighting"" thing back to basics!!!!! the way a G-mashine should look................

[dans67duce]

I like the flush look, and have spent countless hours getting cars to do this, but I'm not a fan of the stretched tires so much. Here's one I did a few years ago, the dub fans here may like it. Please disregard the ill-fitting hood, I finished painting the car around 10, we assembled everything, loaded it up for the show around 5. Apparently the new turbo setup that arrived after the car was fitted and disassembled didn't fit.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/IMG_3304vi-1.jpg

[MonzaRacer]

I love that Falken Camaro! Thanks for posting! But, those wheels could sit a little more flush and it'd give it the "look" and have a wider track.

I'm lovin' the comments! Keep 'em coming.


OK no, no,no,,,and did I say no. First of all I have seen these "flush" cars working in tire stores, always seeing the look done by people who dont have cash to order custom width/offset wheels and because they ent with that extra 1/8th to 1/4 positive offset the sidewalls take damage, and the idiotic rim way outside the rubber protection ring caused by too narrow tires for rims is just a cheap, incorrect look, and super unsafe.
You say that the owner of the car should redesign his Camaro so his wheels can sit less than a pencils width away from the inner fender.
Now go figure this, the car is unit body, some rigidity of the quarter connection the is in wheel lip.
You can claim the "look" but the reason for the actual fit is because it is required. Yes, you can patch the suspension to work with your look. But its a patch.
If you want a Ferrari fit, by one and live with 1 in of suspension travel and prerequisit ride harshness.
Pro-Touring is an amalgam of streetable "pro-stock" power, NASCAR handling that can goe right also, street racing, drag racing, and cruising.
Dont take this as a check mark for all inset wheels assome folks HAVE too much inset of the outer lip and the others flare the fenders.
That silver car with rim outside fender and tire stretched out so bad, NO. Besides ugly its unsafe and in most states illegal.
12 to 14 in wide wheels with 8 to 12 in wide tread widths are a DOT no no anyway.
I still see tires too narrow but not to that extreme but still, figure a 255 should be on a at least an 8 t o9 in rim but not over 10 or 10.5 max and 10.5 is a stretch as it depends on the tire brandif your sidewall bends inward towards tread, you need a wider tire sir.
Too much flex takes away from tires proper ability to function in the suspension, and if you give away performance for a look, then your posing, kind of like the guy with the Monte SS in 80s that had a 229 v6 with so mild a cam it sounds stock, he has a blower case built to fit over the carb,,, complete with blower belt running and all,,,, poser to the extreme.
Now IF you have flat sidewall to tread, and can roll wheel lips well, and say keep it to 1/2 " then so be it as long chassis side flex doesnt put tire into fender.
As for extreme sidewall roll. come on, why? It just looks stupid and has NO performance value. There used to be a road race class that had no rim width rule wut spec tire and you saw something like 205s on 8,9 or 10 in wide wheels. A fella came in with custom wheels of appropriate with to fit tire and built suspension to handle, and tada new rule the next season. He never wrecked, had tires come off and could get atleast hlaf a lap on his competitiors. When that racing took off sponsors came on, before it was nearly a racer funded fun run.
Oh and did I say no so far all I have seen is too m uch.
In PT sense it has no justification, but hey a lot of folks used to run N50-15s on 10-12 in cragars, shackles and air shocks too and call it performance, oh and pizza cutters on front and nitroused/blown big block with drum/ 9" brakes too.

[camaro2nv]

Ive been thinking this very thing. I am into the euro "look" vw scene as well as pro touring and mini trucks/full size truck with air bags. So, if you put them all together you would get some cool looking stuff i think. I am building my camaro about half pro touring and half mini truck, so it will have big brakes and stuff like that but also be able to lay out on 20's. It takes some serious work to be able to get the right wheel look though, the euro/import scene is all about stretch tires and "poke" and to do that on a muscle car could possibly look cool but would be difficult to achieve. You need super stiff suspension for one because the lip of the wheel usually protrudes past the fender lip (in the back) and alot of travel will make it rub.. i want to se some pics of this style on a muscle car.. here is my old golf for referance, had 16x9" wheels with 205's and plenty of poke...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/DSCN1651-1.jpg
And one of the few pics i have of the camaro with the wheels mocked up, pretty standard wheel fitment but i wanted the bagged/dropped look..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/00211-1.jpg
Can you tell me what size rim, backspace and how long your rear end is? Thanks!!

[79T/Aman]

that is F-ing dangerous that car should be OFF the road period, yes that stupid stuff angers me all these people think of is "look at me" and forget that other people are on the road

[Patrick]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/hellaflush-1.jpg

Isn't this past flush? Flush is OK on the Euro's...but this looks ridiculous.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

God am i glad with the rize of the ""street fighting"" thing back to basics!!!!! the way a G-mashine should look................


Im working on it David.. im working on it..:machine:

[Brandon Miller]

To me putting a tire on a rim that is stretched that much makes you look like a moron that doesn't know how to buy wheels and tires.

[thetoystore]

i love the look of a wheel that is close to the finder but will still tuck. i guess this goes back to my minitruck'n roots to were getting the biggest wheels under a bodydroped truck was the goal. i cant understand y they think its cool when half the cars on the website have busted up fenders from the wheels hitting them.

[nightrunner]

normally i can appreciate any kind of car culture, from the tuner cars to lowriders with hydraulics to restored muscle cars to pro-touring to prostreet to bagged out trucks, you name it almost i can appreciate it even if i personally wouldnt do it. however i just dont see the point in this, it looks stupid beyond what words can express. i rank it right up there with the donks

[go-fish]

Hella-gay.

Has this been said?

[hechtrod]

Hella Funny! You guys are passionate. I appreciate your honesty. ha ha I still love you guys. Especially for the amazing builds, performance and style. I agree, some people take the flush wheel style to extreme. The silver rx7 in the pic is super aggressive. I agree, super stretch is not going to handle. Mini stretch, like 255 on a 9.5" wheel to me look cool and will give good turn-in response. Anyway, no point in arguing. I ask you guys to comment and you've done that. Thanks!

[WS6]

I think in general making the wheel fill up the well better is a great idea. A good example are the C-10 and 73+ Chevy trucks. If you're behind one that has stock sized tires on it, the wheels are so far towards the insides of the body it looks dumb. Put a wider rim and tire on there and the truck looks so much better. A great deal of the cars from the 60s and 70s have this same problem. So being careful to get the correct offset and width combination that the wheel is moved towards the outside of the car to better fill in the well as well as look better from the rear so that the body doesn't look like it's hanging out in space is a great idea and most of us do that already anyway. To go so far as to make it as flush as possible as described by the flush scene is dumb. It's sacrificing performance for looks in a rather dangerous manner.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Well dont be a stranger tho.. come by anytime and see us!

[hechtrod]

Oh, be sure I'll be around the forums! Ive been lurking for a few years and commenting here and there. As I said in the story on MyRideisMe.com the pro-touring style of hotrodding is one of my favorites. Check out "Krashyman's" '65 Comet Pro-Touring story we did to spotlight the Pro-Touring style:
http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/1965-mercury-comet-caliente-pro-touring-build/

I've got a certain Grabber Blue Pro-Touring car story up my sleeve! :)

So, I'm not saying I'd go crazy with super flush/poking wheels on a personal build like that silver rx7 in the story, but I would def' try and flush the wheels up and thought about the HellaFlush guys and thought that the two would look kool.

Chris


Well dont be a stranger tho.. come by anytime and see us!

[Roadrage David]

Im working on it David.. im working on it..:machine:

Im glad you and others and myself are!!!.
Thing is we should compear our performance cars with (aczample) greyhounds you have 2 types. one type is bred out of winners and performers. natural selection will give you a sirten CONFERMATION formed due to there performance ,the dogs EVOLVE into a sleek raceing machine.

There are also Idiots who think breeding greyhounds that way is cruel!!. due to dogs getting hurt in there racing careers. and the culling.
So they start breeding these dogs on LOOKS(convermation show dogs) only.
They dont realize that you wil get a emty shell a bullit with no gun powder. and when these dogs actualy do runn douwn a rabbit ore make a quik turn ,its these dogs that will brake legs and heurt themselfs!!!!!! because there body structure is to weak to compeat...... in that case ""LOOKS CAN BE DESEAVING"".

Wel high performance cars in our case ""street fighters"" and ore G-Machines are performance machines. stuff added for looks only, is rediculess when its taking performance/ safety away from our cars. Shure some shiny stuff is nice, but it should not compromize the performance . Im sorry but these to fast and to furies rice burner crackerjack toys and that seen ore looks dont ad anything to ours.
( with the ecseption of those drifters( not my cup of tea) and some of them that are involved with time atack raceing.) for them its about styling beond style..........as usual forgive my spelling

[BritishGreen68]

there are unlimited amounts of opinions and styles. To say something is "hella gay" or whatever is just uncalled for.. There are plenty of people who think cutting up a 69 Z28 to put in wider wheels and 4 link and painting it a custom color is stupid. People like what they like. That's why there are 1000 different forums for people to be a part of, pick your style and go with what you want. I happen to like about 10 different styles of car builds so i am a memebr on alot of different forums and i can appreiciate a well done car even if i dont really like it. By the way, dont ever post a flat black VW rabbit with red wheels and wide whites on the jalopy journal lol..

[Windycity1]

To each his own, its just not for me.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

e x a c t l y!


im glad you and others and myself are!!!.
Thing is we should compear our performance cars with (aczample) greyhounds you have 2 types. One type is bred out of winners and performers. Natural selection will give you a sirten confermation formed due to there performance ,the dogs evolve into a sleek raceing machine.

There are also idiots who think breeding greyhounds that way is cruel!!. Due to dogs getting hurt in there racing careers. And the culling.
So they start breeding these dogs on looks(convermation show dogs) only.
They dont realize that you wil get a emty shell a bullit with no gun powder. And when these dogs actualy do runn douwn a rabbit ore make a quik turn ,its these dogs that will brake legs and heurt themselfs!!!!!! Because there body structure is to weak to compeat...... In that case ""looks can be deseaving"".

Wel high performance cars in our case ""street fighters"" and ore g-machines are performance machines. Stuff added for looks only, is rediculess when its taking performance/ safety away from our cars. Shure some shiny stuff is nice, but it should not compromize the performance . Im sorry but these to fast and to furies rice burner crackerjack toys and that seen ore looks dont ad anything to ours.
( with the ecseption of those drifters( not my cup of tea) and some of them that are involved with time atack raceing.) for them its about styling beond style..........as usual forgive my spelling

[TNH]

The JDM/VIP flush look doesn't work for muscle cars, IMO. Especially cars like the '69 Firebird and Camaro with the straight edge on the wheelwell..... those are begging to have wheels tucked under them.
I think making the wheels look more flush with the wheelwell looks good on '67-68's, but I would never go as far as the JDM guys with the stretched tires.

[hechtrod]

Camaro2nv on the Project Updates just posted this pic. Lovin' this "flushness" ha ha. It looks hot!

[Damn True]

IMO:

Stretched tires = LAME. Reminds me of lowriders with itty-bitty tires shoehorned onto Landmarks.

"Flush-ness" = Lame. If you have any suspension travel at all (and if you don't, that's lame too) you'll have rub...which is lame.

"Hella" = 7x as lame as stretched tires.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

this hella isnt lame..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

That is a Helo or perhaps a "Heli" if you are talking to a Brit.

Very different and I agree, decidedly un-lame.

[6'9"Witha69]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/img_860520copy300x200-1.jpgThis thing doesn't look agressive, it looks like it needs about 4 degrees LESS static camber. Stupid look.

[Young Gun]

I used to be into rice... about 3 years before I got my license... and I don't know what I was thinking back then... I will spot somebody that some of those cars can put done impressive numbers but I mean really, get some tires that fit and cut the crap with the ridiculous camber... irritates me

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

the problem is.. those cars that put down the impressive numbers are few and far between..


most of them are content with like 300 hp.. on bullshed tires and no real suspention upgrades other than some coilovers.

and i dont know about you.. but 300 hp on here is hilarious.. so unless the cars 300 hp is pushing weight about 2500 or so..

[Derek69SS]

Worst

Idea

Ever

[Young Gun]

the problem is.. those cars that put down the impressive numbers are few and far between..


most of them are content with like 300 hp..

and i dont know about you.. but 300 hp on here is hilarious.

v6 camaro has 300 from the factory...I want like twice that then... without power adders...

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i dont think ANYONE on here if they had a choice would take the V6 camaro if they could get the V8.

if anything they would get the V6.. put around town for a year then throw in an LS7!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/nerd-1.jpg

[Young Gun]

i dont think ANYONE on here if they had a choice would take the V6 camaro if they could get the V8.

if anything they would get the V6.. put around town for a year then throw in an LS7!



no doubt, Im just sayin if a factory v6 is making 300, we are buliding modified muscle cars that aught to put out wayyyyyyyy more

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yea but anything over like 650 is now more of a traction issue.. so a safe workable 550 to 600 is where id like to stay.

[Steven]

I'm so lame. I thought the post would be about Hella lights and inventive ways of mounting them, until I opened it. I'll go back to my room now.

[megaladon6]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brabusbullitbahi01.jpg)

this is hella-flush, the right way. rims that stick past the fenders are for off roads trucks.

[1badchevelle]

I think this says it all


:bsjerk: :seizure: :smashcomp:hmm: :screwy: :getout: :barf: :banghead:

[cheapthrillz]

NO!

For real though... it just doesn't look right when the wheel is 4 inches wider than the tread. Every now and again I see somebody on the road that made a bad tire choice, but I had no clue that there were people that would do this on purpose.

This is pro-touring. We are:
Pro-handling
Pro-braking
Pro-safety

There is only so much that we (well some of us) will give up for looks. This hella stuff is wrong.... well maybe not wrong, but definitely not right. I wouldn't even get into one of those cars on the road.

[bigvegan]

"By the way, dont ever post a flat black VW rabbit with red wheels and wide whites on the jalopy journal lol.."

Man, there was a guy doing something similar with a rat rod Merkur Hatchback on killbillet.com a while back, and he got a ton of abuse.

[MrQuick]

hey, its a thing....just not in the pro-touring like. Strange but would be very difficult to produce on an old car. Just not proper.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I did a Pshop of what the stretch and poke type look would look like on a first gen..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It doesnt look TOO bad.. but surely doesnt belong..


FU CK it.. im gonna do it!.. .ahhahahah

[1nkred1ble]

i dig it!

[Scott Parkhurst]

No. Just...no.

[hechtrod]

Thanks for the Pshop. I'd ditch those chrome fender rings and give it flush, not poke. It has promise. Let me reiterate that I'm not saying go crazy poke and stretch like some of the more carried away hellaflushers go, I'm saying, instead of tucking, give it flush fitment and a baby stretch (like 255/40/18's on a 18x9.5). The Time Attack guys in Japan (and world) typically go with a 265/35/18 on an 18x9.5 wheel)
I did a Pshop of what the stretch and poke type look would look like on a first gen..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It doesnt look TOO bad.. but surely doesnt belong..


FU CK it.. im gonna do it!.. .ahhahahah

[68Formula]

I did a Pshop of what the stretch and poke type look would look like on a first gen..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It doesnt look TOO bad.. but surely doesnt belong..


FU CK it.. im gonna do it!.. .ahhahahah

I think Ill-Touring a good name for the concept, because it perfectly describes the mental state of someone willing to do something like that to a classic.

Eww... I mean... just ewwww!

Ok, not as offensive as Donking a classic, but still... eeewww!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

its not going to make much of a difference whether its flush.. with the stretched tires it would look something like that anyway..

IM GONNA DO IT!.. ahhaha

[Steven]

Ok, I'll date myself. Years ago, the low riders use to do the same where I grew up. They would put the smallest, skinniest tire that they could find on a rim in order to for the car ride as low as possible. AKA, Vw tires on a chevy rim. They could not drive fast, but they rode low. Blew a lot of tires too.

[Shiro666]

I myself have tried to wash this idea from my head.

I do agree that it might look less VW if the wheels were one piece forged, with some concave spokes goin' on. It would look more Time Attack and less euro.

Now we just have to convince Work or Volk to make some in crazy 1st gen Camaro offsets.

I'm down.

[Shiro666]

This would be more of the look I would be going for with my '67 Camaro if these wheels were made. Not too stretched, but definately pushing the limits and still functional.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

give me a good pic of wheels like that and ill shop them on a camaro.

[fantasygoat]

Looks like a great way to scrape your rims on curbs.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you mean crubs..

[Shiro666]

give me a good pic of wheels like that and ill shop them on a camaro.

PM sent.

[PhillipM]

Normally I wouldn't get involved in something like this but I just had to add my... UGHHH. Thats the ugliest thing I have seen in a while. I have seen this "style" floating around in photos but never thought anyone would do it to an american classic. From Donks to HellaFlush... Whats next?

[derekf]

I cringe every time I see the word "hella" show up in "new posts".

Not because I dislike the style - even though I do - but because I've learned to read that word as a synonym for "lame".

[68Formula]

Hella the headlight company should sue for deformation of character.

[venturabeachpup]

I did a Pshop of what the stretch and poke type look would look like on a first gen..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It doesnt look TOO bad.. but surely doesnt belong..


FU CK it.. im gonna do it!.. .ahhahahah


Father, forgive them for they have sinned! LOL

[camaro2nv]

I need a good laugh, go for it!lol

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

aaaaaahhhiiiiiiIM GONNA DO IT!!!

[gmorris]

Please take the picture of my car (orange chevelle) off of that POS website...in no way do I want to be associated with you or whatever you are trying to promote on there. Next time ask before you use my pics.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

ouch.. ahahhahah!


Im gonna do eeett!

[hechtrod]

Please take the picture of my car (orange chevelle) off of that POS website...in no way do I want to be associated with you or whatever you are trying to promote on there. Next time ask before you use my pics.

gmorris, no problem. Sorry to offend you. You're right, I should have asked to use your pic! Won't happen again. It's a killer Chevelle and thought it was a great representation of Pro-Touring.

Have a good one!
Chris

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Chris.. dont get it wrong it isnt folks on here dont like you or anything, its that what is going on in that particular build style makes no sense to guys like us who pride in function as well as form.

and when i say "im gonna do it" i actually am..

not purposely tho.. I bought a set of wheels from a BMW guy for my other 67 Camaro and it so happens that the wheels already had STRETCHED tires on them.. so all i have to do is throw some spare spacers i have to meet the flush just for shizs and giggles before i put on the REAL tires.

but im going back to proper backspacing after i take the pics.

so.. youll get to see what it looks like.. and ill get hated on for about an hour with you..

so there it is..

hold tight!

[hechtrod]

sweet! Go for it. Can't wait to see it. ha ha

But gmorris was right, I should have asked to use his pic. I screwed that up. Lesson learned. Moving on...

[69Nova]

Isn't this a conservative version of HellaFlush. It looks pretty dam flush to me.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/roller2-1.jpg

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

not to that car...


but IM GONNA DO EEETTTT!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/Picture14-1.jpg

[dannyuscg]

I have been building and racing Streetstock metric chassis cars for years. But I saw this car and bought a 1990 240sx Coupe to build. It now has a 60" wide 9" floater rear from a circle track car, full carge and 4 link backhalf with coilovers. I'm currently building a front subframe to convert it to front steer rack and pinion to clear an LS2 6 speed conversion.

More pic's to follow.

Danny

[XLexusTech]

I vote for putting "hella flush" cars and Donks in a demolition derby.
Whoever wins goes in the nearest car crusher.

[BritishGreen68]

I have been building and racing Streetstock metric chassis cars for years. But I saw this car and bought a 1990 240sx Coupe to build. It now has a 60" wide 9" floater rear from a circle track car, full carge and 4 link backhalf with coilovers. I'm currently building a front subframe to convert it to front steer rack and pinion to clear an LS2 6 speed conversion.

More pic's to follow.

Danny
nice ride man, i like the tire fitment alot..i never did understand why people hate on other peoples taste in cars, this forum is not immune to ugly cars here guys, there are a few. Everyone has a different style they like..

[Roadrage David]

i never did understand why people hate on other peoples taste in cars,

WHY!!!... Howabout hella fllush wheels big ugly fart pipes and mufflers and a frond drive car with a rear spoiler as big as a airplain!!. and when askt why do you need that rear spoiler they wil tell you its for the DOUWNFORCE!!!!!!!!!!!:machine::machine::machine:.. ........... Thats why!!!..

[neki67]

So much for the Dutch being open minded . . . .

[hechtrod]

So much for the Dutch being open minded . . . .
That's funny stuff!

[Scott Parkhurst]

This site seems to be all about what works best. There's some visual stuff, but here, it's more about function over form.

This 'look' won't help our cars work any better. On the contrary- hitting a bump while the front wheels are turned could cause damage. At high speed, that's downtright dangerous (as if smashing a fender or a wheel isn't bad enough) so it ain't gonna float here. Simple!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

herez some heller pokeez..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/1438808518_7fca8b9f1b-1.jpg?v=0

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/1437963327_fb6d150285_o-1.jpg

[hechtrod]

PERFECT!!! Love me some 70's poke! :)

[Jarcaines]

Have you ever stepped on a Hot Wheel car before? Every time I see one of those cars where the wheels completely fill the wells and poke out the sides (I guess you call it "hellaflush" never heard that before) all I can think of is smashed hot wheels.

That said, I agree with what a few others have said. It's your car, if it makes you happy, that's the point, do whatever you want to it.

[Young Gun]

why not just bag it... you get the look you want and its driveable... hell if you use air ride technology stuff it will perform damn well too...

[Ron L]

WHY!!!... Howabout hella fllush wheels big ugly fart pipes and mufflers and a frond drive car with a rear spoiler as big as a airplain!!. and when askt why do you need that rear spoiler they wil tell you its for the DOUWNFORCE!!!!!!!!!!!:machine::machine::machine:.. ........... Thats why!!!..Right, because the location of the driven wheels indicate where the spoiler/wing should be located. Hence FWD cars should have wings on the hood.

[megaladon6]

That said, I agree with what a few others have said. It's your car, if it makes you happy, that's the point, do whatever you want to it. __________________
just don't post up pics here.:machine:

[venturabeachpup]

That car above reminds me of my car in 1979
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/cam1979-1.jpg
Gotta love it!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

im hella FLUSSHHHHH!!!!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Rhino]

im hella FLUSSHHHHH!!!!!!!



I was wondering if that car was going to show up in this thread.:lmao:

[ill steez]

personally, i think a conservative stretch on a rim just looks better than having bulging balloon tires.... just as long as the bead isn't hanging on for dear life, i'm all for it.

and i really do hope that someone really goes for this look. i'm sure that it'll cause a huge ruckus, and people will bitch and moan left and right, but i think it would be interesting to see. i'd much rather see new unique styles and ideas than clones of the mule and bad penny every 15 minutes.

edit: and just to be clear, i LOVE the mule and bad penny.

[ill steez]

oh, and;

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[thetoystore]

^^^^^^ that a dual blower? sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shiro666]

Oh Noes! Another damn euro import with "flush" wheels and a big stupid wing! Sooooo not functional!

Get it off this site! AHHHHHHHHH!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/untitled1-1.jpg?t=1243971406

[Ron S]

I hate to say it but my Mustang has a bit of that look

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/549438007_NW2R9L-1.jpg

[megaladon6]

somehow i think there's a difference between a track only car and a car that supposedly functions on the street. and the porsche has a good chance of going fast enough to actually need the wing. i haven't seen a honda do that.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

personally, i think a conservative stretch on a rim just looks better than having bulging balloon tires.... just as long as the bead isn't hanging on for dear life, i'm all for it.

and i really do hope that someone really goes for this look. i'm sure that it'll cause a huge ruckus, and people will bitch and moan left and right, but i think it would be interesting to see.



dont worry.. give me about a week and some change.. youll see what it looks like guys..


YARRRRRRGHH!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/I27m2Bbackfrom2Bt3h2Bdead1brainz11-1.jpg

[ill steez]

I hate to say it but my Mustang has a bit of that look

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/549438007_NW2R9L-1.jpg


you shouldn't hate to say it at all! your mustang is probably one of the baddest cars on the site!

[ill steez]

Oh Noes! Another damn euro import with "flush" wheels and a big stupid wing! Sooooo not functional!

Get it off this site! AHHHHHHHHH!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/untitled1-1.jpg?t=1243971406



mmmm!! RAUH WELT PORSCHE!

[Josh69]

Can we just stop using the term Hella!?!

Coming from the Euro side of things, I don't mind a little poke, but goddammit stop saying Hella. That word is solely used by d-bags, and typically can be seen sporting Metal Malitia or TapOut t-shirts, with some aviators and a pair of plaid shorts..and a lot of hair 'product'. Come on dude...er...I mean Brah! ROFL!!

[slowcamaro]

Can we just stop using the term Hella!?!

Coming from the Euro side of things, I don't mind a little poke, but goddammit stop saying Hella. That word is solely used by d-bags, and typically can be seen sporting Metal Malitia or TapOut t-shirts, with some aviators and a pair of plaid shorts..and a lot of hair 'product'. Come on dude...er...I mean Brah! ROFL!!

Don't hate brah, thats hella

[hechtrod]

Those Rauh Welt Porsches are some of the sickest around and eat up Japanese race tracks and the street. Ron, I'm glad you posted in here, because I was thinking the same thing, but wanted others to chime in. :) Don't get all hung up on names (hella, pro-touring, etc.), call it whatever you want. Don't put your car in a box. There is no box!

[Tony_SS]

"Hella" users, please read aloud:

IAM SOFA KING RE TODDID.

[Ron L]

Can we just stop using the term Hella!?!

Coming from the Euro side of things, I don't mind a little poke, but goddammit stop saying Hella. That word is solely used by d-bags, and typically can be seen sporting Metal Malitia or TapOut t-shirts, with some aviators and a pair of plaid shorts..and a lot of hair 'product'. Come on dude...er...I mean Brah! ROFL!!I realize it's a favorite around here but I rank "sick" right up (down?) there with "hella", considering the two words usually end up in the same sentence when spoken around this area. Except they don't use hair product since their heads are usually shaved or they have a sideways cap on that for some reason has their area code printed on it. Don't forget "tight", too. "Sick! That ****'s hella tight, dude!":bsjerk:

[para67camaro]

Is there any actual benefit to having your tires being so much smaller than your rim? Or is it all done for aesthetics? Does it provide less tire flex? I am just curious, I am new to the scene. I am not really a fan of the look, but hey some people prefer rice rockets.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

tight like spandex?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/225pxSpandex1-1.jpg

[Twentyover]

Is there any actual benefit to having your tires being so much smaller than your rim? Or is it all done for aesthetics? Does it provide less tire flex? I am just curious, I am new to the scene. I am not really a fan of the look, but hey some people prefer rice rockets.

Tires have a design rim width. Use the design rim widths for best performance.

The 'look' probaby provides less sidewall flex, but puts curvature into the tread, probably overheating the edges and underheating the center. So you add pressure, and the tire doesn't get warm enough to maximize grip.

[para67camaro]

Ok makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the quick schooling!

[hechtrod]

The only functionality of big tire stretch is for them drifters that basically get one drift day's worth of tires. The stiff sidewall/stretched tire actually works for the drifters because it makes for a quick loss of traction when they clutch kick it, e brake it or feint/flick the car to get it into a drift. Plus, with the big hp drifters, it makes for easy burnouts all the way around the track.

[Damn True]

Hmmm, all things you don't want in a car if you are actually trying to go around corners quickly.

[hechtrod]

Hmmm, all things you don't want in a car if you are actually trying to go around corners quickly.
Exactly. Anti-Pro-Touring isn't it! ha ha

[Damn True]

Exactly. Anti-Pro-Touring isn't it! ha ha

....and with that, it seems you have answered your original question.

The circle is complete.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/oh_snap-1.jpg

[Norm Peterson]

Re: "tucked" vs "I'm-old-so-what-the-hell-does-hella-mean flush" - I'm sort of caught in the middle, as I find neither to be appealing.

Tucked tires remind me way too much of early 1950's Nashes and what-not. Cars that cornered on their sidewalls and told everybody in the neighborhood about it. Cornering function discussions aside, tires belong out at the edges of the bodywork, so the car doesn't look like an over-inflated body was dropped down over a too-small frame.

But not beyond the bodywork either, at least not for street duty. Keep the tires inside the plan view outline of the bodywork, without forcing yourself to rely on negative camber beyond that required for improved cornering to get it all to fit. Front tires need only be fully covered while driving straight.

As far as tire:wheel widths are concerned, I'm entirely willing to stretch tires half an inch above the max recommended (and have done so), but not as a general rule further than that. Another psi or two will tend to even out the contact patch unit loading and therefore wear, and is something I'd likely be doing at least up front anyway. You most likely won't have a cushy ride any longer, but that's a separate topic.

Edit - mild stretching at least is considerably more than 15-20 years old. Think 185/70's on 13 x 7, back around 1975 (I've got a B&W picture of that car I need to scan).


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Mini stretch, like 255 on a 9.5" wheel to me look cool and will give good turn-in response.
Not even a mini stretch. It's the upper limit, and FWIW you've just described the front wheel/tire for the current Mustang GT500 (255/45 on 18 x 9.5).


Norm

[hechtrod]

I don't think the Thread Failed. For me it was successful. It got people thinking, some laughing. I got opinions from the pro-touring crowd that I respect, even when they say a thread I posted up "failed". Sure, maybe its not the best way to get the highest G or turn the fastest lap, but looks wise, that's up to the eye of the beholder. I think many who've chimed in said it best when the best fitment is somewhere between the tuck and flush look. I see many pro-touring pics and the one thing I wish more cars could do was fit wider front wheels/tires (see attached pic of one of my favorite pt cars, John Parsons II Much Nova). But maybe they've squeezed as wide a wheel that would fit. THat's likely the case. Anyway...
Chris

....and with that, it seems you have answered your original question.

The circle is complete.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Bryce]

hella - flush that $h%t down the toilet.

i dont like anything pretentious on a car. If its not a race car it doesnt need a giant wing or a number on the door. cars are ment to drive, so if stupid small tires and wide rims makes it so ur car cant do anything but drift, seams dumb to me.

good luck with your rice themed classic muscle car. I bet you like that parts of GM will be bought by china.

[hechtrod]

[QUOTE=good luck with your rice themed classic muscle car. I bet you like that parts of GM will be bought by china.[/QUOTE]

Eeez up bro! Hate the idea, don't hate the man. :enguard:

:)

[Shiro666]

A big part of the draw of PT cars for me is the style.

Remember that there are a lot of muscle car enthusiasts think that WE are freaks for wanting to cut up perfectly decent classic cars to suit our purposes.

It serves no FUNCTIONAL purpose to build a pro touring car. If you want a car to go around corners, buy a Corvette, or a WRX, or an EVO. All will turn and stop better for the amount of money invested.

The reason that we build these cars is because they combine heritage, performance and have a bar fight estetic that scares children and breaks necks.

I don't like the extremes of the stretch and poke movement or use the word "Hella" ever. I do apreciate the sub genre's in our hobby. Remember that we ourselves are a sub genre and I promise that there are a bunch of internet experts talking sh*t about us this very moment. I apreciate seeing these trends and I like how it has shaken things up a bit.

Sucessfull thread in my eyes. If it made you feel anything it was a WIN.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Guys CHILL off tearing the kid up... You all know thats not what we are about on here at PT.com.

This isnt CORNER CARVERS.. lol

at least the kid has the respect enough to just PRESENT the idea and not try to belittle anyone who doesnt like it, or argue its merits to death.

he just presented the idea of the look.. thats it.

I for one of course dont necessarily think that it belongs on our cars but i will give the kid this.. he hasnt came on here and started up some bullshayts like some have.. and he seems like a good kid.

so lay off guys.. im sure he wasnt the CREATOR of the name

Hellaflush.

Im sure it was some califoniafruit that came up with it while wearing a PWND shirt, spikey hair, jdm monkey stance, popped collar, stonewashed jeans, a shocker sticker on the front windshield, with some carbon fiber panties on.

so.. just chill.

and mods..

LOCK THIS THREAD!!!!

[hechtrod]

Thanks Mr. Vengeance,
No way I came up with h***aflush, just presenting an idea. I'm a crazy car nut. I'm an engineer by day, daddy of 3 boys (1 on way)/husband and google car site surfer by night. ha ha

I love Pro-Touring cars and their goal. I love these forums and build threads and info. I'm not going anywhere. Hopefully I can contribute with my own car build thread someday. Gotta pay off that minivan first. :)
Chris

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I'm a crazy car nut. I'm an engineer by day, daddy of 3 boys (1 on way)/husband and google car site surfer by night. ha ha


and still a protouring lil shet... hahaha

just be ready for future "get in line" posts..

there are A LOT of knowledgeable people on here for how to make these cars fast, handle, stop, and be comfortable.. and you can learn much from them.. i know i have.

just dont confuse us with the rest of the world as far as styling and such. we base MUCH of ours to performance..
and like i said in an older post.. you arent necessarily dealing with "old foggies" but we do approach this with a more mature heart.

even if im a funny photo mad man.

so stay on here.. and keep up with the builds.. theres some eye openers for SURE.. and ill post up what the stretched tires look like on a 1st gen.






AND GET A DAMN CAR AND START A BUILD THREAD!!!


hella... hahah

[Damn True]

Guys CHILL off tearing the kid up... You all know thats not what we are about on here at PT.com.

This isnt CORNER CARVERS.. lol

at least the kid has the respect enough to just PRESENT the idea and not try to belittle anyone who doesnt like it, or argue its merits to death.

he just presented the idea of the look.. thats it.

I for one of course dont necessarily think that it belongs on our cars but i will give the kid this.. he hasnt came on here and started up some bullshayts like some have.. and he seems like a good kid.

so lay off guys.. im sure he wasnt the CREATOR of the name

Hellaflush.

Im sure it was some califoniafruit that came up with it while wearing a PWND shirt, spikey hair, jdm monkey stance, popped collar, stonewashed jeans, a shocker sticker on the front windshield, with some carbon fiber panties on.

so.. just chill.

and mods..

LOCK THIS THREAD!!!!


What?

The dude asked a question:


So, I wanted to throw this idea out to you guys. Pro-Touring cars are 1 of my 2 favorite build styles. I thought, how cool would it be to mix in some HellaFlush style (I explain HellaFlush in the story if you've never heard of it before). See what you guys think?

http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/pro-touring-hellaflush-ill-touring/

Am I nuts or on to something cool? Sound off!

Hechtrod

And he's getting answers.

Don't ask a question if you aren't prepared for the answer.


Woman: "Does this dress make me look fat?"
Man: "No your arse makes the dress look too small."


We aren't obliged to coddle every silly idea that comes along to prevent someone's panties from bunching up. No, this isn't CC.com (and it shouldn't be) but it isn't kindergarten either.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you need a hug True.. a big hug...

[Damn True]

C'mere sweetheart.


...nah, I'm good.

[hechtrod]

Mr V and Damn True, I just need to
AND GET A DAMN CAR AND START A BUILD THREAD!!!

Damn True, I agree with you.

The personal attacks are not cool, but attack the idea. It's just an idea.

Part of the stuff I like about the PT forums is it seems ideas are analyzed and opinions are given. It's not one of those "ricer" forums. PT people actually have to engineer their cars and plan, not just slap on a spoiler from eBay cause it was cheap and "looks" cool, so usually the opionions and ideas are thought out and "engineered" just like the cars.

I can take it. I might take it a little personal (I'm human), but hopefully I can keep those personal feelings off the keyboard and respond respectfully and share opinions with PT members back and forth.

K, let's move on to better "ideas" shall we? ha ha

You can lock this one, burn it, whatever. ha ha

Chris

[Damn True]

Mr V and Damn True, I just need to
AND GET A DAMN CAR AND START A BUILD THREAD!!!

Now yer talkin.

I hope you recognize that about 90% of what I post in threads like this one is not the least bit serious. The outrage is satirical except where Dodger fans are concerned.

[hechtrod]

Now yer talkin.

I hope you recognize that about 90% of what I post in threads like this one is not the least bit serious. The outrage is satirical except where Dodger fans are concerned.

Oh SNAP! Now he's trashin' the Dodgers! :machine:

Well, I'm learning the satire now I guess. It's hard, this online crap, to know what people are really feeling and how they mean to come across as oppposed to how their typed words come across.

I can see you're a hard core PT guy and that's AWESOME!

My problem is because I don't have a car to focus on, my car craziness gets away from me sometimes and I get ideas in my head.

Chris

[cheapthrillz]

Oh SNAP! Now he's trashin' the Dodgers! :machine:

Well, I'm learning the satire now I guess. It's hard, this online crap, to know what people are really feeling and how they mean to come across as oppposed to how their typed words come across.

I can see you're a hard core PT guy and that's AWESOME!

My problem is because I don't have a car to focus on, my car craziness gets away from me sometimes and I get ideas in my head.

Chris

Nobody said you had to spend mucho deniro for a pro-touring starter. Most of the people on this site don't have the gobs of money to throw at their cars. I know i don't, so get out there and find you a beater and join our family!

[Rhino]

Tucked tires remind me way too much of early 1950's Nashes and what-not. Cars that cornered on their sidewalls and told everybody in the neighborhood about it. Cornering function discussions aside, tires belong out at the edges of the bodywork, so the car doesn't look like an over-inflated body was dropped down over a too-small frame.

To bring a semblance of tech to the thread... what do you typically see as a minimum of fender clearance before running into interference problems for both the front and back?

In typical PT fashion, this car should be thrown about regularly with no to minor rubbing.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

C'mere sweetheart.


...nah, I'm good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/oh_snap-1.gif

[Bruning Auto Design]

im hella FLUSSHHHHH!!!!!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Saw this at the Oregon Dunes a few years ago... Too funny

[hechtrod]

To bring a semblance of tech to the thread... what do you typically see as a minimum of fender clearance before running into interference problems for both the front and back?

In typical PT fashion, this car should be thrown about regularly with no to minor rubbing.

Fender clearance? Probably a credit car! ha ha

[Norm Peterson]

That'll be a function of wheel rate, available bump travel, and fender shapes, so there isn't any single easy answer. As it sits right now, the '79 Malibu has just over 3" bump clearance with the current tires and didn't hit even when autocrossed. The widest part of the sidewall is about 1.5" inboard of the widest part of the factory fender opening "flare". With wider but shorter tires, it would rub on occasion, even after performing a little "clearancing" of the inner fenders (mostly on the driver side). Stiffer than its only moderately firmed-up suspension would certainly help, but at that level of seriousness I'd be moving up to R-comps or slicks and different diameter/offset wheels that would change things all around again.

The just-barely E Prepared Mazda rubbed furiously on every single turn at autocross with 2" clearance even though the wheel rates on that car are actually greater than those on the Malibu, and the 626 is several hundred lbs lighter. Tires are half an inch inboard of the no-flare bodywork, most of which is occupied by the not-yet-rolled/flattened lips. I ended up raising that car back up, over 1.5" above where the short stiff springs put it initially, partly for the 1.5" clearance gain itself and partly for the roll center correction.

Clearance is a 3-D problem, I'd think a careful look at the clearances and fender shapes that BMW manages to live with would be as good place to start as any.


Norm

[79-TA]

I realize it's a favorite around here but I rank "sick" right up (down?) there with "hella", considering the two words usually end up in the same sentence when spoken around this area. Except they don't use hair product since their heads are usually shaved or they have a sideways cap on that for some reason has their area code printed on it. Don't forget "tight", too. "Sick! That ****'s hella tight, dude!":bsjerk:

let's not forget the possibly worse term "ill."



I'm an engineer by day

and yet you found over-stretched tires, nasty camber angles, and compromised suspension appealing? Putting the edge of the fender between the tire and wheel lip is an exercise that only shows that it can be done. There is no benefit. Unless you find attracting the "hella NorCal" crowd to your car is somehow beneficial.

[Damn True]

Unless you find attracting the "hella NorCal" crowd to your car is somehow beneficial.

Isn't that "hella-tight-sick" malarkey more of an OC/909 flatbiller thing?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/brianeastcounty-1.jpg

[hechtrod]

let's not forget the possibly worse term "ill."




and yet you found over-stretched tires, nasty camber angles, and compromised suspension appealing? Putting the edge of the fender between the tire and wheel lip is an exercise that only shows that it can be done. There is no benefit.

Yes, I dig camber/flushness/lowness as a style. I didn't say that the "Ill-Touring" style car would be faster in corners or 1/4 mile than a "regular" Pro-Touring car, I (and maybe only I) think it could look cool. Period.

[Ron L]

Isn't that "hella-tight-sick" malarkey more of an OC/909 flatbiller thing?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/brianeastcounty-1.jpgYou don't go north of Mountain View often, do you? Every mall here is littered with tools like that. Everything's "hella tight" except their clothes.

[mc84_zz4]

...the below pic just looks dangerous to me.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/05/hellaflush-1.jpg
^^x2, To me this looks like somebody does not know how to buy tires, or got some wheels from rent-a-wheel, and threw on some tires they had, since they could not afford the wider ones.
Not only is this unsafe, but your cool sparkly wheels are going to get chewed up by every pothole, rock, or curb in town. :slap:

[Twentyover]

I'm trying to get my head around a tire shop that would ignore their lawyers and mount these things...

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, I dig camber/flushness/lowness as a style. I didn't say that the "Ill-Touring" style car would be faster in corners or 1/4 mile than a "regular" Pro-Touring car, I (and maybe only I) think it could look cool. Period.
I think when parameters such as those are being used to define and actually 'name' a 'style' that they're beginning to lose their technical associations.

Most folks here are probably more liberal when it comes to those terms than the folks who signed off on the original cars were, but everybody has their own general point on the scale between pure image and pure function beyond which things stop making sense (and that works both ways, if you think about it a little). Getting anybody else to truly see things with the same eye as yourself sounds like an exercise in attempting to re-wire somebody else's brain, at best a slow and uncertain process.

Style is all about presentation, often to the point of exaggeration. Sometimes with zero compromise --- that wheel flange/bodywork/finally-we-get-to-some-tire-sidewall picture could well be the poster child for this. On the other hand, function is about making compromises appropriate to the actual use (I'd be afraid to drive the above car off the trailer for fear of screwing up the sheetmetal and paint). When it comes to vehicles, style can be a static display of art; its function as a vehicle cannot. That's the gap (canyon?) that you're trying to build a bridge across.


Norm

[Damn True]

You don't go north of Mountain View often, do you? Every mall here is littered with tools like that. Everything's "hella tight" except their clothes.

I don't go to malls if I can avoid it.


Every time I see one of those hats I can't help thinking of the beat-down a kid would have gotten in our day if he'd showed up to little league practice without a damn bend in his brim.

It's even starting to show up with younger kids in MLB.....silly looking IMO.

[hechtrod]

Dudes, let this thread die a quick death, please. ha ha I get it, you guys don't dig flushness and camber because it doesn't go fast or turn sharp and its not "safe". Let's move on shall we?

I'm tired of seeing this thread now. It's like beating a dead horse. :)

Chris

[derekf]

Dudes, let this thread die a quick death, please. ha ha I get it, you guys don't dig flushness and camber because it doesn't go fast or turn sharp and its not "safe". Let's move on shall we?

I'm tired of seeing this thread now. It's like beating a dead horse. :)

Chris
Let this be a lesson to you - don't start a thread you don't want to see stick around :)

[derekf]

ha ha I get it, you guys don't dig flushness and camber because it doesn't go fast or turn sharp and its not "safe".
Don't forget that we hate the name "hella-*".

[Shiro666]

Please, there are children on this forum.

It's Hecka from now on.

[hechtrod]

Let this be a lesson to you - don't start a thread you don't want to see stick around :)

I know right. Gotta be careful what you post up in here. :)

[67apostle]

Nahhhh.....

[79-TA]

Yes, I dig camber/flushness/lowness as a style. I didn't say that the "Ill-Touring" style car would be faster in corners or 1/4 mile than a "regular" Pro-Touring car, I (and maybe only I) think it could look cool. Period.

As the saying goes, evil is a perversion of good. While looks are subjective, something this contrived is just trying too hard.