LCA / UCA BUSHINGS steel or nitrile?

[65MALI]

Anyone have any experience with steel or nitrile bushings from southwest speed? Im considering getting a set. It will be on a daily driven 65 chevelle. Im not too concerned about ride quality but more functionality.

[JRouche]

Steel bushings? Thats a new one for me. Must be an all out race bushing, dunno. But if yer talking about bushings , not rod ends, I would not use steel bushings in a street car. JR

[79T/Aman]

steel bushings have been around as long as there's been bushings, keep them greased and they will last as long as the car, there is a BIG missconseption that rubber bushings were developed to reduce nhv, rubber does provide some isolation but they have no moving parts so road shock is still transfered to the chassis, a steel bushing moves freely allowing the springs and shocks to handle the road shock, a nitrile type bushing will do the same as the steel ones and needs just as much greaseing as the steel ones would, IMHO it's a marketing feel good option

[JRouche]

steel bushings have been around as long as there's been bushings, keep them greased and they will last as long as the car, there is a BIG missconseption that rubber bushings were developed to reduce nhv, rubber does provide some isolation but they have no moving parts so road shock is still transfered to the chassis, a steel bushing moves freely allowing the springs and shocks to handle the road shock, a nitrile type bushing will do the same as the steel ones and needs just as much greaseing as the steel ones would, IMHO it's a marketing feel good option

Wow.. Learning stuff everyday. Thanks!!!! Thats why I come here, picking up new ideas. I never knew...

Oh yeah. I still wouldnt use steel bushings on a street car. I dont see the need and if you arent willing to inspect the bushings every couple months you might be looking at some friction welded parts. Whats wrong with poly?? You dont want to use it for what reason?? JR

[65MALI]

Thanks for the reply 79 T/A man.I guess Ill go with poly or GW Del Alums. I figure Id go with the steel or nitrile because their pretty cheap.IDK I just wanna get my car goin by the summer.

[64Chevelle]

I would avoid polyurethane bushings in all moving suspension parts because of binding issues. The binding can be minimized with the use of greasable bushings but then you might just as well choose any other bushing, f.ex. steel or delrin/del-a-lum. You have to maintain them on a regular basis no matter what.

I've got the nitrile bushings installed in my rear axle housing but it's not on the road yet. They are not greasable, but they are a very slippery material, the inner sleeve moves absolutely free and the nylon is stiffer than poly meaning even less deflection. I'll report back as soon as the car is back on the road, but my first impression is very good.

[79T/Aman]

poly is about the worst material to use for a high load rotating bushing such as control arm bushings, it's plastic with no grease!?
The solid steel will not "friction weld " either and no need to inspect them grease at every oil change as you grease the rest of the chassis, I've used steel bushings on my street car for 10 years now zero problems, the car was daily driven for 7 years.
Solid steel bushings were still used in trucks into the 60's and from what I was told some Lincolns in the 70's (don't want a harsh ride in a Lincoln)

[Eric Howell]

I just picked up the steel bushings for my S10.
IMO it's no different then running heims in the rear. Just maintain them and they will be fine.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[JRouche]

I ordered a set of CA bushings in poly. I am gonna freeze them for a day or two then chuck them up in the lathe. I am gonna set the thread gearbox to 4TPI and set my depth to .100" and run a carbide bit through the ID with a boring bar. Wish the lathe cut a wider thread but Im stuck. It will give me a grove on the ID of the bushing. Then Ill install them in the CAs and drill and tap for a zerk fitting. Making sure it lines up with the groove. Ill use marine grade lithium grease, heard alot of good with it and poly bushings. Should help with the bad nature of poly bushing, we will see :)

Those steel bushings look indestructible!! Talk about NO flex. But Im not ready to go that severe. My luck would be the next weak link in the system would take the flex and break. JR

[86Cutlass383SR]

I'll relate my experience with both poly and Global West Del-A-Lum's.

I had the poly-graphite a-arm bushing in both front control arms with stock springs and shocks in a 69 Camaro. The suspension was so stiff the front end hardly moved up and down more than an inch. Very stiff.

Fast forward to my Cutlass. Used the DAL's with 700# front springs. That is twice the stock spring rate of my Cutlass. Because the DAL's let the suspension do what it was supposed to do, The ride was smoother than my stock srpung Camaro. The suspension was able to actually move up and down and let the suspension absorb the road shock. I'd never go back to poly or stock rubber again!

[jackfrost]

yep. I have Del-A-lum's in my 442 and they're very nice. no problems with NVH.

[Bryce]

low friction is great for suspension it allows the shock and spring to do their job.

in my front suspension i used teflon coated chrome moly heims and low friction ball joints from afco. with no springs but with the shocks, spindles brakes i can move the suspension through full range of motion with around 50lbs of force. and the suspension with spindles and brakes weighs about 45lbs, that means very little friction and absolutely no bind.

so my suggestion would choose the one will no flex and low friction.

[poormans69]

I just got my steel bushings in from Southwest Speed. Someone on here recommended them so I jumped. If SC&C uses them, they're good for me.

[JRouche]

I just got my steel bushings in from Southwest Speed. Someone on here recommended them so I jumped. If SC&C uses them, they're good for me.

SWS!! I just had my first dealings with them. Needed some Mustang II spindles. They are all made overseas now, even the Heidts spindles (standard height, not 2" drop). Seems SWS is still forging their own. I was shocked. And great prices and customer support. I have been dealing with AJ over there, great guy. .

And the more and more positive stuff I am reading from you guys using stiffer bushings, like steel or Del or nitrile Im starting to become a follower :) Damm!! I have this new set of poly bushings. But limited amount of knowledge and Im already re-thinking what I should do. I could always re-sell these if I go with steel or Del.

So educate me. Im a newbie here. Still trying to get the idea on how the bushings are supposed to function. Trying to figure out this binding and noise (squeak from poly). I can see the binding with the rubber bushings I just removed. It looks like it comes from the sides of the bushing where it is clamped up to the frame and outer washer. Not from the center of it cause it rides on the smooth 5/8" shaft with a steel liner on the bushing, no grab there.

So the poly bushings I just bought will be the same way? Seeing how they are still compressed the same as the rubber bushings.

Now for the steel bushings. No drag on the center as with rubber or ploy. But how do they contact the frame and outside where there would be a washer?? That seems like there would need to be a bearing surface? As the CA moves up and down what is the steel bushing doing. Are they a two piece where the center floats with the bolt and the outer rides with the CA end?

Sorry for the hijackish questions. Just trying to learn more about how these various bushings rotate and contact the frame during rotation. Thanks for any help.. Im seriously looking at a steel setup if I can understand how they operate. JR

[64Chevelle]

I just got my steel bushings in from Southwest Speed. Someone on here recommended them so I jumped. If SC&C uses them, they're good for me.

They have very competitive prices. As stated on their website they don't advertise much or any at all and are basically dependent on word of mouth, high ranking on google and great products.

[64Chevelle]

Sorry for the hijackish questions. Just trying to learn more about how these various bushings rotate and contact the frame during rotation. Thanks for any help.. Im seriously looking at a steel setup if I can understand how they operate. JR

Please see the links in another thread I wrote about bushings, measuring stiction (the amount of binding) and why not to use poly: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=508009#post508009

[Eric Howell]

I just got my steel bushings in from Southwest Speed. Someone on here recommended them so I jumped. If SC&C uses them, they're good for me.That is where mine are from as well. I didn't talk with anyone but my parts came quick so I'm more then happy.

[Eric Howell]

Now for the steel bushings. No drag on the center as with rubber or ploy. But how do they contact the frame and outside where there would be a washer?? That seems like there would need to be a bearing surface? As the CA moves up and down what is the steel bushing doing. Are they a two piece where the center floats with the bolt and the outer rides with the CA end? The center sleeve is slightly wider then the outer. The through bolt clamps it in the frame to keep it from rotating. The outer is pressed into and rotates with the control arm.
I posted pics a earlier in the thread.

[JRouche]

The center sleeve is slightly wider then the outer. The through bolt clamps it in the frame to keep it from rotating. The outer is pressed into and rotates with the control arm.
I posted pics a earlier in the thread.


Perfect!! I couldnt see if the center sleeve was wider. Oh, why is the zerk screwed in?? Wont that area be covered over with the CA end? I understand you will drill and tap the CA but why a tapped bushing? Thanks JR

[JRouche]

Please see the links in another thread I wrote about bushings, measuring stiction (the amount of binding) and why not to use poly: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=508009#post508009

Thanks for the link. Im gonna go read all the sub-links. Great stuff. Exactly what I needed. JR

[Eric Howell]

Perfect!! I couldnt see if the center sleeve was wider. Oh, why is the zerk screwed in?? Wont that area be covered over with the CA end? I understand you will drill and tap the CA but why a tapped bushing? Thanks JRThats how they shipped them. On the G body and S10 the bottom of the stock control arm is open so the zerks will point down. I doubt these would fit any of the after market arms, most of them use link bar style bushings like these. I don't know what you are running. Here is a picture of the link sttle bushings.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[JRouche]

Thats how they shipped them. On the G body and S10 the bottom of the stock control arm is open so the zerks will point down. I doubt these would fit any of the after market arms, most of them use link bar style bushings like these. I don't know what you are running. Here is a picture of the link sttle bushings.

The split bushing is what I have. I could use the steel still Im thinking. Ill just line up the hole and drill and tap my CA end for a zerk. Thanks, JR

[JRouche]

The center sleeve is slightly wider then the outer. The through bolt clamps it in the frame to keep it from rotating. The outer is pressed into and rotates with the control arm.
I posted pics a earlier in the thread.

Ok, sorry to wear you out but one more question. Trying to get my head straight with these steel bushings.. So the center small sleeve is longer, that keeps the outer large sleeve from contacting the frame? It seems like the outer section that is pressed firm to the CA could float on that inner sleeve and contact the frame? The way I envision it is you have a bolt and a sleeve over that bolt, the sleeve essentially becomes one with bolt when you clamp it down with the nut. Now over that there is the large sleeve that rotates around the inner small sleeve and it is firmly attached to the CA end.

So what I see is when you bolt it all up is there is clearance between the large sleeve and the frame cause the small sleeve is longer. But what keeps it away from the frame. Why doesnt the CA slide forward and contact the frame? And the flange on the outer sleeve, does it go towards the frame or the outside of the CA. Or what keeps the outer sleeve from contacting the nut and washer which is stationary to the movement of the CA.

Im just trying to understand where the bearing surface for the ends of the bushings are... Any help, Ill owe ya a drink, and I usually pay up :)

And lastly, if I cant find the steel bushings in the size I need I may make some. Got a few lathes here that are up to the task. Any ideas on using some 4140? I can heat treat them so any hardness within their range right here. My CAs use a split bushing so I was thinking about making the small sleeve with a flange on the frame side and having the large sleeve ride on that for a side bearing surface. But Im still stuck with the nut and bolt head ends and their side bearing surface, the washer would have to be exactly the same OD as the small sleeve to clear the rotating large sleeve.

Am I looking to something that these steel bushings wernt meant for, the ends of the CAs and frame clearance? Thanks, JR