How much for NASA or SCCA membership ?

[JEFFTATE]

I was thinking of joining either NASA or SCCA so I can do HPDE , Time Trials , and Autocross.
Which organization is better ???
I've looked on both there websites and membership to either is not that expensive.
But , are there a lot of additional fees for HPDE , Time Trials , and Autocross ???

[David Pozzi]

I think SCCA is around $90 a year, you have to join your Region, and also the National SCCA, both are in the $30-$40 range.
You get a regional newsletter or magazine, plus the national mag, "Sports Car".

[JEFFTATE]

That sounds decent David.
What about additional fees for activities ??

On the NASA website , I found a section for registering for events.
It's around $229 for HPDE or Time Trials.

But , I haven't been able to navigate through the SCCA website to find what it costs to do HPDE with them...

[mpozzi]

www.scca.org (http://www.scca.org) should have a link for membership. NASA is great for track days (HPDE) and series races (CMC, Spec E30, etc.) but I don't think they have many autocrosses or similar type events.

SCCA has their Solo program (autocross) and it's quite popular. SCCA does not have track days, per se, like NASA does.

I joined both organizations but haven't done HPDE or any other NASA events, just SCCA Solo events. Both have good benefits.

Cheers,
Mary Pozzi

[NOT A TA]

NASA membership is $45.00 this year and included a subscription to Grassroots Motorsports as well as a DVD of last seasons championships. They usually have 2 HPDE events at Road Atlanta (near you) each year. In their entry level HPDE classes you'll get classroom instruction as well as an in car instructor. To run TT's you need to move up through HPDE 1,2,3,4 and then you can run in the TT's. I haven't been in about a year because I promised myself I'd do a bunch of safety stuff before getting back on tracks with my Firebird but I think they've been adding autocross events. If I don't get the 14 Car done soon I'm gonna just take the Porsche! I miss it!

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks , that's what I wanted to know.
I kinda' wanted some input from somebody who had been in these organizations.
Kinda' some first hand likes and dis-likes.

[bingham72]

Join the Atlanta Region SCCA. It's REALLY easy. Go to the first autocross, tell them you want to become a member and you get into the first autocross for free. Then the SCCA sends you renewal every year and you get reduced autocross fees. Autocrossing is tons of fun. I only stopped doing them when the family got larger and time got smaller.

http://www.soloatlanta.com/

[hotrdblder]

jeff, also look for other clubs as well, i have my tt/comp license for comscc and it transfers with a check ride to nasa tt and others.
just start doing some track events
jake

[JEFFTATE]

Cool , I don't want to do wheel to wheel stuff.
Just TT and Solo.
Maybe some track events with controlled passing.

[hotrdblder]

if its not wheel to wheel then there are only certain areas you can pass and generally its with a point by.
very very safe.

[NOT A TA]

Thanks , that's what I wanted to know.
I kinda' wanted some input from somebody who had been in these organizations.
Kinda' some first hand likes and dis-likes.


I like the NASA HPDE system. The folks are very friendly and helpfull to newbies and you can see the comradery amongst the ranks even though they may be rivals on track in the same class.

I've gone to a few different tracks and have always gotten very good instruction in the classroom taught by senior veteran racers. The in car instructors are racers who have had instruction training. They get a discount on their entry fees by doing the in car instruction. When you're in the classroom they're on the track tuning/practice, qualifying etc. Then at the end of the day after your last track session you'll get to watch the main events for American thunder, Spec Miata, the Cobras etc. So you'll get to watch your personal instructor race.

What they teach you is on track procedures,vehicle dynamics and how to behave on the track while teaching you the fastest "line". As the groups escalate from 1 to 2 and so on the training becomes more technical. You will get an HPDE Passport booklet that each "in car" instructor fills out each day you attend. It's a sort of report card of your skills as a driver. If you're signed up for a 2 day event you may request different in car instructors so that you get a couple different perspectives of what the instructor considers the fastest line and techniques for that track.

What they are really doing is teaching you safety, proper driving techniques and how to run "the line" on that track. Timing yourself is prohibited in the entry level classes. Passing in the entry HPDE groups is only on designated straights and only after the leading car gives a point by.

Road Atlanta near you is my favorite track of the ones I've been to. The elevation changes, technical sections and long straights allow you to develop your visual skills, corner entry/exit techniques, threshhold braking limits, and make some high speed blasts on the straights!

NASA TT was kinda wheel to wheel when I last went. However it will be a lot of HPDE track days before you are allowed to consider running in that class unless you decide to go to a "racing school" so that you can get a racing license quicker.

I've also attended HPDE type events run by the PDA and SCDA in the New England area and they were also good. Very similar system of teaching. I believe they are now running HPDEs with NASA.

[JEFFTATE]

Cool ,
I went to the NASA event at Road Atlanta last December.
I have a friend who volunteers as a track worker to accumulate track time.
His Dad runs a car in the American Iron Series.
It looks like a good group to run with.
They did HPDE and TT earlier in the day
and Miata , BMW , and American Iron at the end of the day.

[HectorM52]

Take good notes and maybe put up some "how to" in a thread. I'm going to be following your footsteps. Soon.

[JEFFTATE]

Take good notes and maybe put up some "how to" in a thread. I'm going to be following your footsteps. Soon.

I'll work on that Adam.
We don't live too far apart , so...

[CurtiSS 69]

Thanks , that's what I wanted to know.
I kinda' wanted some input from somebody who had been in these organizations.
Kinda' some first hand likes and dis-likes.

I am in NASA and I really like it as you move up when you are ready to. I have worked up to group 3, so I can't really comment on Group 4 and TT.

The one complaint would be that -in NorCal- the Infineon Raceway events are jam packed with cars (45+ on a 2.52 mile circuit). This leads to horrible Conga lines the first few laps of the session. Hopefully the Southern region of NASA running at Road Atlanta is not really full like NorCal NASA is. Another dis-benefit of this is the Infineon events sell out very quickly. You need to sign up months in advance. Hopefully the Road Atlanta events are not the same. For contrast, SoCal NASA is not very crowded and I was at Buttonwillow Raceway last Weekend and there were about 25-30 cars on the track in Group 3. They also didn't open registration until about a month before the event. The crowding-early registration trouble varies from region to region.

A problem in Groups 1 & 2 -on some tracks- where passing may be very limited- you can encounter very impatient drivers that go bersirk because they want to pass in a non-passing zone. This can get uncomfortable, but it gets much better in Group 3 where the passing gets opened up.

A major NASA benefit is you get a lot of instruction, and I agree with the other comments about rotating instructors. Everyone has a little different view. It is also beneficial if you get one that has a similar car to yours, as some track sections may have somewhat different approaches required for heavy high powered cars. Hopefully some instruction is still available in the high groups in the Southern Region. NorCal is so crowded the in car instruction ends at Group 1. SoCal has in car instruction available in Group 3. Stay in Group 1 until you have the line rock solid and your attention is on the turn workers as well as the track. Then go solo in Group 2. The next jump is to Group 3 which can be pretty big as the cars and the drivers are far more serious at this level.

Another benefit -at least in NorCal- is NASA is the low cost leader, and runs events on convenient Weekends. Not on weekdays like many other groups are doing. The price is about 50% of what many other Groups charge.

Things that you can judge for yourself is that point by's are not required in NASA, so whenever you are in a passing zone you can pass or be passed. This is why it is vitally important to learn the line and stay on it while being passed. When you pass you must make it happen off line. This actually works very well. I have run with other organizations that don't do this and it is scary, as car you are passing can make some unpredictable moves. This can get exciting in a bad way.

If you work up through the NASA program you will be a well seasoned driver by the time you get into Group 4 and TT. I find it somewhat shocking that someone can take a single Weekend course and get a racing license. On the flip side...It takes quite a bit of time to get into Racing by climbing the NASA ladder.

Good luck with what you choose, and have fun. Be prepared to do quite a bit of work setting your car up, as the track will expose its weak points.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions about NASA.

I know SCCA has a very good Autocross program. If you are looking to Autocross this would be the way to go.


Regards

CurtiSS 69

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks Curtis ,
I have a lot of work / development to do on my car.
But it will get there.
I just want to be able to do some sort of track event as I improve the car.

[NOT A TA]

CurtiSS makes an important point. NASA HPDE 1 fills up early on the east coast also and gets closed out.

[CurtiSS 69]

Thanks Curtis ,
I have a lot of work / development to do on my car.
But it will get there.
I just want to be able to do some sort of track event as I improve the car.


Jeff

No problem. You will have fun. Road Atlanta looks like a great track.
You must do a track event to know what improvements needs to be done. Nothing shows it's hand like driving it really hard, and that will only realistically happen on the track.
Every car has its quirks, and as you get faster the problems will rise up. You have fun finding what works and what doesn't.


A few things you may want to do for the track:

I would add ducting to the brakes, as they will overheat when you get your wings.

Change your brake fluid to a high boiling point type, and make sure you have at least 50% of you brake pads remaining before going to the track. The brakes will wear faster than you think.

Keep the fuel above half full. It may starve below 50% of a tank.

If you have power steering; Put a cooler on the system and switch to synthetic fluid.

Repack the wheel bearings with racing wheel bearing grease.

Put a Z-28 oil pan, baffle, and pump on the eliminate oil starvation, and change to synthetic oil. On budget overfill any other type of oil pan stock or aftermarket .5 quarts above full, and keep an eye on the oil pressure.

Check your lug nuts before every session.


What tires, springs, shocks, and brakes are you running?
If you really enjoy your track outing you open up the classic question: Will it always be a street car, or if it will become a dedicated track toy? You may have some decisions ahead.
Let us know how it goes.


Regards


CurtiSS 69

[JEFFTATE]

Jeff
What tires, springs, shocks, and brakes are you running?
If you really enjoy your track outing you open up the classic question: Will it always be a street car, or if it will become a dedicated track toy? You may have some decisions ahead.
Let us know how it goes.


Regards


CurtiSS 69

Right now .... My car is still using a stock configuration.
I still have stock disc/drum brakes , stock control arms , stock oil pan.
I definitely need to upgrade the brakes and oil pan before I do any serious cornering.
I'm working on suspension improvements at the moment.
I'm gonna' get to brakes , tires , oil pan BEFORE I do any serious track time.
I've driven my car around Road Atlanta during the "spirited" parade laps we took at the Year One Experience.
We were only supposed to do 3 laps , but Jim Grayson and I got to go 12 laps , ( Because it was the end of the day and no-one else was waiting in line )
After 11 laps , my brakes were gone !
I had enough , and was ready to rest myself and the car.

[CurtiSS 69]

Right now .... My car is still using a stock configuration.
I still have stock disc/drum brakes , stock control arms , stock oil pan.
I definitely need to upgrade the brakes and oil pan before I do any serious cornering.
I'm working on suspension improvements at the moment.
I'm gonna' get to brakes , tires , oil pan BEFORE I do any serious track time.
I've driven my car around Road Atlanta during the "spirited" parade laps we took at the Year One Experience.
We were only supposed to do 3 laps , but Jim Grayson and I got to go 12 laps , ( Because it was the end of the day and no-one else was waiting in line )
After 11 laps , my brakes were gone !
I had enough , and was ready to rest myself and the car.

How about this: Sign up for the next NASA Group 1 at Road Atlanta, and add air ducting to your existing brakes -I use sump pump hose $12 for 10'- and overfill the oil 0.5 quarts and get on the track. Work on the driver development while you upgrade the car.

BTW, I run stock control arms and rubber bushings, so it is possible to use stock pieces. I even ran 400 treadwear white letter BFG radial T/A's on stock rally's when I started, and still run street tires. Don't let that hold you up. My car is a daily driver (99% street 1% track). Don't think you need to build a Super Unlimited just to get on the track, plus it is good to have some experience before attempting to drive such a vehicle on track. For solid suspension advice go to: http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension.htm David has a sections on brakes and suspension, and I found them very useful when building my car. For example, rear discs bolt on with all factory pieces.

Get on track, and let us know how it goes. Get a cheap GoPro Camera $170 and make a little metal bracket to mount it to the rear view mirror. Then you will be able to enjoy your track experiences between events and share them here as well.

Regards

CurtiSS 69

[JEFFTATE]

I've done the G-mod , solid body mounts , Urethane control arm bushings , hidden spring adjusters , bigger swaybars , heavier springs , quick-ratio steering box , and 17" wheels and tires.
With Pirelli P-Zero Nero 400 treadwear tires.

The car handles a lot better than stock , but it needs more developement.
And better brakes.

David Pozzi's site is where I got a lot of the ideas.
He's good people.

[NOT A TA]

I just signed up for the NASA HPDE 6/20-21 at Sebring. https://www.nasaproracing.com/event/943 I'll be in group 2. They're going to run the full 3.7 mile course used for the 12 hour race. I've never run there so I'm looking forward to it!

If you sign up with NASA and have any interest in going there let me know.

[CurtiSS 69]

I've done the G-mod , solid body mounts , Urethane control arm bushings , hidden spring adjusters , bigger swaybars , heavier springs , quick-ratio steering box , and 17" wheels and tires.
With Pirelli P-Zero Nero 400 treadwear tires.

The car handles a lot better than stock , but it needs more developement.
And better brakes.

David Pozzi's site is where I got a lot of the ideas.
He's good people.

It sounds like you are almost there. Add rear discs, good brake pads, high temp fluid, and air ducting and the brakes should live. Play with the camber, caster, toe, and front ride height to balance the car the best you can, and you are looking quite well. Add the Z-28 pan and baffle, and you are there.

I checked out some in car video from Road Atlanta on Trackpedia, and that's an incredible course. Great esses, up hills, down hills, and the turn after the Suzuki bridge to the front straight looks awesome downhill, off camber, and fast. Got to love it. It does look like a place that really cooks the brakes though especially the far end of the course.

Go for it. It will be a good one, and get video!

Regards

CurtiSS 69

[JEFFTATE]

Wow John , I wish I could go to Sebring !!
If I could , I would let you know.


Thanks Curtis ,
I'm working on it .
All it takes is time , money , and effort.
I'll get to it at some point.