Fitting LS1 F-body rear brakes to Moser Ended 12 bolt

[Rhino]

As stated in the tile, I'll soon be using a 12 bolt rear with hybrid 9" style ends in my '68 Camaro. I currently have a set of LS1 F-body rear brakes that I originally intended for use with my stock 10 bolt. I'd still like to retain the use of the LS1 brakes.
What is the most commonly accepted method for fitting these components together?
In a search, I've found a few people using LS1 brakes on a 9". It appears they have used the LS1 backing plate in front of the housing end. Where is the retaining plate in this mix? I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how 9" brakes typically work, but at first glance there has to be a better option than this.

I've contemplated building a new caliper bracket, placing it behind the housing end, or build a new retainer with integral caliper mount.
I have yet to narrow the rear, nor order any axles, so I'm pretty wide open on my options. With all this in mind, what would you do?

[Apogee]

The center hole in the LS1 backing plates measures 2.835", give or a take a few thousandths. The OD of the Ford big-bearings is 3.150" whether you're using the SET20 tapered roller bearings or the ball-bearing, so that shouldn't matter. That said, the LS1 backing plate typically serves as the bearing retainer and are captured on the axles by the bearings. Since you're planning on running the Moser Hybrid Ford/GM housing ends and their axles, I beleive there are two versions of that housing end. I only see the one on their website, #7900, but I thought they had a #7900F? or something like that which had a deeper counterbore for the bearing such that it is flush with housing end once installed. The flush version is the one you want, otherwise you'll need a spacer to take up the difference as the bearing typically protrudes ~1/8" from the face of the housing in a standard Ford application.

I assume that you're using the LS1 F-body brakes so that you can have a parking brake, right? How would you maintain a parking brake by making custom brackets to mount behind the flange? If you don't want a parking brake, I would think that it would be a lot simpler to just run a standard Ford big-bearing "Torino" housing end and C5/C6 brakes.

Tobin
KORE3

[Rhino]

Thanks for the info Tobin, I do appreciate it. I'm planning on using the standard big-bearing. I'll have to look for the deep counterbore ends, I never knew they existed.

You're exactly right about the parking brake. That is the main reason I'm leaning toward the LS1 brakes. The fact that I already have them isn't bad either.
As far as my e-brake cables, I parted out a 2002 TA for my drive train and cut the e-brake cable brackets off the 4th gen 10 bolt. I believe they should work on the 12 bolt with a little modification, as long as my coil overs or link brackets don't get in the way.

You mention the C5/6 rear brakes. Are they simpler to use with the retained bearing ends? I'm not opposed to changing my plans if it's a better setup. How is the e-brake handled on the C5?

[Apogee]

Just FYI, there is also another "deep cbore" housing end for the larger 45mm ID bearing and that's not the housing end you want...just the flush variant of #7900.

I wouldn't say that the C5/C6 stuff is simpler or cheaper, but it does give you the ability to run any C5/C6 configuration (12" C5/C6, 13" C6 Z51, 13.4" Z06) whereas the LS1 pretty much locks you into LS1 only components. We fab up our own backing plates and such for the parking brake components since the Corvettes are IRS and the parts don't just bolt up to a solid rear axle housing.

Tobin
KORE3

[ebmiller88]

I understand the desire to run the modern LS1 style rear discs but with the mods involved to get them to fit, why not run the older style PBR rear discs, IE '89-97 F body? With the right backing plate they're a bolt on deal as are the e-brake cables and brake lines.

Ed

[Rhino]

I just revisited this thread since I'm trying to finalize my brake selection to determine how I want to build my rear. After reading through it again I realize a few things I missed the first time.

Ed, I somehow missed your post until now. I haven't seen the earlier PBR style brake in person. Could you expand on how it would be easier to use than the later F-body style in conjunction with a captured bearing setup?

Tobin, I originally misread your question of parking brake retention. That's something that I hadn't put much thought in until I looked at the brakes again this afternoon. I love the C5 parking brake setup you offer, although it's unfortunately out of my price range at the moment. It is something I am interested in long term (maybe a year or two down the line). I'm just trying to defer a few costs to get the car on the ground and running sooner. If I were to purchase your more affordable Ford Big-brake kit, what would it take to upgrade in the future? Assuming I use the Torino style end, would I need to set up the rear for a 2.5" offset, rather than the standard GM 2.75"?
Knowing I'd like to move to your parking brake setup as my long term goal, do you offer the backing plate/parking brake components separately for an upgrade in the future?

I apologize for all the questions, although this is the first time I've set out to build my own axle. I want to insure it's done properly the first time. :)

[Apogee]

It looks like your question was cut off mid-sentence, however I'll do my best to answer what I can. We have C5/C6 kits with internal parking brakes for both the Ford 9" big-bearing Torino type ends (2.00 x 3.56 x 2.50) and the BOP type applications now, so whether you went with the Ford housing end or the Moser GM/Ford hybrid housing end doesn't matter. If you run the hybrid end, it would allow you to run your LS1 brakes now, whereas if you were to build your rear end with 9" ends, it would require you to do somemthing about the brakes now rather than later. we can sell the parking brake compatible bracket kits without the parking brake components for about $30 more than our "race" kits. This allows you to add a parking brake in the future while deferring the cost to do so and not requiring any of the components purchased to be replaced at a later date.

If you have questions regarding the LT1/C4 rear caliper setups, you may want to give Noel at Touring Classics a call/email.

HTH,
Tobin
KORE3

[Rhino]

You did a great job answering my half question. I'll finish that sentence for clarity.

No matter what ends I choose, I now have a clear upgrade path moving forward. I think I'll stick with the GM bolt pattern/2.75" offset and work with my brakes as I get closer. Thanks for the info! I do have some specific questions on upgrade pricing that I'll PM you.

[ebmiller88]

Ed, I somehow missed your post until now. I haven't seen the earlier PBR style brake in person. Could you expand on how it would be easier to use than the later F-body style in conjunction with a captured bearing setup... :)

Sure, glad to help. I was referring to the '89-97 LT1/1LE style PBR rear discs which are essentially the same as a Baer Sport or Track rear kit, same caliper is used in both. If you got a set of custom backing plates such as those pictured below, the '89-97 rear discs would bolt right on, then get the correct axle lines and e-brake cables and you'd be set with minimal work on your end. All of these parts are readily available.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/SmallFordweb1-1.jpg

Ed