Stock 67 camaro spindle and wilwood brakes?

[Erik Beckett]

I'm in the process of trying to install my front Wilwood 12.19 (140-7675) disc brakes on my camaro. We realize it will move the front rims out about 3/8" to 1/2" from where they are currently. I assume I have just the stock spindles on the car, it has stock control arms.

My issue is: if this pushes my rims out 1/2" from where they are currently, my rims will be outside my fender lip. I have Rushforth Fuel rims that measure 17x8 with 4.875 backspacing. Rushforth as well as another well known individual on this site says that is the standard they sell for almost every first gen camaro. Could any kind of aftermarket spindle push my rims in or out? I know drop spindles can raise and lower but what about in and out?

Raising the front end some and adjusting the alignment might help some. If not, is there control arms or anything can move the rim in some?

Suspension and brakes are not my thing. I just assumed this was a direct bolt on and my rims would fit.

[6'9"Witha69]

the 67-8 Fenders are more forgiving than a 69, and I run 17x8 with 4.5" BS and also have Wilwood brakes. It should fuit fine. Any questions, call Jon @ Driver's Inc, he knows this stuff inside and out.

[will-ss-69]

Hi there, Im almost in the same boat. and I have been doing a lot of homework. I have a 69 camaro and stock suspension. Just ordered Rushforth Fuels with 4.87" Bs in front and 18x9's 5.5 Bs in back. Wilwood makes Great Brakes. Iv'e talked to 2 techs and got 2 answers. 1 told me the front track width will only change an 1/8" and your the second person to say it's actually 3/8"on each side. fortunatly for me, I have not ordered my brakes yet. Baer Brakes "Track Series" in front only move out .12" about an 1/8". and in the back they are the same as stock. So now I will be ordering Baer Brakes instead. You probably will be able to change the fit in front by adding 1/2 degree of camber to your alignment also. If you decide to switch to Baer Jon at Driverzinc has way better prices than Summit or Baer and will give you great service too. He's done alot of installs. Im not a pro. good luck with your project and post up some pictures so we can check out your Ride!!:)

[Apogee]

...Wilwood makes Great Brakes. Iv'e talked to 2 techs and got 2 answers. 1 told me the front track width will only change an 1/8" and your the second person to say it's actually 3/8"on each side. fortunatly for me, I have not ordered my brakes yet. Baer Brakes "Track Series" in front only move out .12" about an 1/8". and in the back they are the same as stock....

Just to clarify a few things from the previous post, the original 67-69 Camaro had different track widths depending on whether it was drum or disc up front...and there were the 4-piston C3 type disc setups and the single piston setups. So when you ask a question regarding track width change, it's important to be specific because it's not quite as simple as you're making it out to be.

As for the rear Baer kit not changing track width, that's not my experience. The OE drums have a .105" hat thickness and most aftermarket rear rotors are between .188"-.280" thick. The track width increases by the net difference per side.

Erik, most aftermarket spindles in my experience don't change the position of the inner wheel bearing relative to the ball joints. The only way to move the spindle inward would be shorter control arms and then deal with the geometry issues that arise from making such a change. New hubs could move your wheel mounting surface inward, however that will directly impact your caliper position and bracketry...but custom hubs could be a possible option for you.

Tobin
KORE3

[Erik Beckett]

Just an update. So I have all the brakes installed and they look great. The back rims fit fine with no issues, although my Billet Specialties Street Lites will not clear the calipers but my Rushforths do. Now on to the fronts.

The fronts will bolt on fine, I just have to buy some 1/2" lug nuts for the fronts. After the rims are on and the car is down is where my issue comes. The drivers side tire sticks out much farther then the passenger side tire. The drivers side is almost out to the wheel well molding on the outside of the fender. This seems pretty significant.

After doing alittle looking around. I did see that the upper control arm shims are set up much different front side to side. It looks like this car has been aligned maybe 20 years ago and not touched since. The drivers side only has 1 shim on each end of the control arm bolt. The passenger side easily has a 1/2" of shims on it.

I am very illiterate when it comes to suspensions. I plan on taking it to an alignment shop. I am not sure if this will make a difference being so far different side to side, if this would push one side out farther then the other.

My next step is the alignment shop and then maybe taking some measurements on the front subframe and fenders to see if the front is square or not.

If anybody has any suggestions on the above, please let me know.

Thanks,

Erik

[ProdigyCustoms]

Erik, You may need to have the car checked and make sure it is instaled square in the car. If one wheel sticks out and the other is to tucked, the frame may not be installed square.

Like I said we sell over 100 sets of Wilwood a year and your the very first issue. Jon sell tons of wheels at that 4.875 BS, and i have sold a ton of wheels at 4.75 and have zero issue.

In the end, it will not be the fault of the Wilwood / wheel combo.

Man I wish this car was here so i could look at it.

[Erik Beckett]

I definetly do not blame the wheels or the brakes at all. I know its in the frame and alignment for sure. My issue know comes in that this is a pro-street car so the front subframe is welded to the backhalf so its essentially a full frame car know.

I wish you were here Frank, or atleast the car was at your shop. I am not sure how much an alignment can throw the front wheels off?

I am going to get the car home and start to do some measuring. Does anybody have an specs as a starting point? I am fairly new to suspension tech.

Thanks, Erik

[Erik Beckett]

Well, I picked up the camaro today and drove it home for the first time with the new brakes. The brake pedal is kinda soft but he tells me after the pads seat the peddle with stiffen up some. He says there is no air in the lines at all. Right now we also have the proportioning valve opened all the way. Not really sure where that needs to be set at? Any suggestions?

As far as the left front wheel sticking out. It sticks out at the top by about 1/2 to 3/4". This is with a level running top to bottom, so I definetely need to get to an alignment shop. The passenger side is toed in some as well. This was a race car turned pro street, with me trying to pro-tour it. So I am not sure how it was set up before. We did have to raise the front up some with adjustable coilovers, I am sure that moved the front tire out some as well.

Does anybody have any suggestions for alignment setup caster/camber ect. This is just a street car that will see drag strip duty and zero autocross. Any suggestions I can take to alignment shop is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Erik

[Chad-1stGen]

Check pozzi's site for alignment recommendations or do a few searches. You will find some great advice. Just make sure you take the specs recommend on this site with you to the shop and find a shop that will align outside of factory specs.

[ProdigyCustoms]

The brake pedal will not stiffen when the pads wear in. That situation needs to be reviewed. Which master are you running? Power or manual?

As for alignment, about -.5 camber (tire leaning in at the top) per side, and as much caster (-3 to -5) as they can put into it without running the tire into the rear of the wheel well, and a 1/8" of toe should do it.

But before you do a alignment I would have the frame measured for straightnness in the car. It needs to be measured fore and aft and in a X pattern from the body to the corners of the frame to be sure it is bolted in square. Sounds like it is not in square. Common mistake

[Erik Beckett]

Hey Frank,

I am not sure if he bench bled the 7/8" master cylinder or not. The pedal is just not what I was hoping for. This is a 4 wheel manual disc set up. The same one you sent me a quote on.

As for the frame, I am confident the frame is straight but I will double check. Its pretty abvious the alignment is off by the way the drivers side rim sits out on top. I will call a local body/frame guy tomorrow and see when he can get me in.

Thanks, Erik

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is real easy to bolt the frame in ourt of square, there is quite a bit of wiggle room for error. The master needs to be bench bleed for sure. In the end you should expect a brake pedal with a "patly assisted" feel. not like manual brakes, but not like power brakes either. but absolutly not soft of mushy.

[novaderrik]

Hey Frank,

I am not sure if he bench bled the 7/8" master cylinder or not. The pedal is just not what I was hoping for. This is a 4 wheel manual disc set up. The same one you sent me a quote on.

As for the frame, I am confident the frame is straight but I will double check. Its pretty abvious the alignment is off by the way the drivers side rim sits out on top. I will call a local body/frame guy tomorrow and see when he can get me in.

Thanks, Erik
try a 15/16" master cylinder and your pedal feel should be where you want it.