LS1 Swap Northern California

[ViperBlue68]

:help: Ok guys after much thought :idea: I've decided on a LS1 swap for my 68 Camaro does anyone know of a Knowledgable (about 1st gen swaps) shop in Northern California? Im right by Sacramento any advice will be Greatly appreciated!! :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

Jody, would know best. Speed Merchant in San Jose. Jody?

[zbugger]

Yeah, Speed Merchant can do it. Once when I was there, they were putting a 6.0 LSx engine in a Jeep, I think it was. That place does do good work.

[TonyL]

http://www.forcefedperformance.com/

these guys used to be based out of Yuba City. They have built some incredible cars and engines. Check them out, look at their site and follow the link to the old site, you can see the cars they have built there.

My brother has dealt with them alot, and they are supposed to set up the EFI for the corvair, when he gets around to working on that thing again.

[camcojb]

http://www.forcefedperformance.com/

these guys used to be based out of Yuba City. They have built some incredible cars and engines. Check them out, look at their site and follow the link to the old site, you can see the cars they have built there.

My brother has dealt with them alot, and they are supposed to set up the EFI for the corvair, when he gets around to working on that thing again.


Just don't let them dyno your car! :)

Jody

[TonyL]

Just don't let them dyno your car!

bad experiance?

[camcojb]

bad experiance?


Yes, I was in there a couple weeks ago to dyno my Lightning with a friend and his Lightning. Friend gets on the dyno first and they can't make any pulls as the a/f is very lean under wot, at 14.6:1 or so. Tried a couple times and pulled it off, so my buddy figures he got a bad tune. I put my Lightning on and the guy wants to dyno in second gear; I told him it should be dynoed in third gear (1:1) with the converter locked but he says they do it in second gear. So he makes two pulls and the HP numbers seem okay but when he gives me a printout the torque curve is not even close. You have the converter locking halfway through the pull and the numbers and curve especially are unlike any Lightning dyno I've seen. So I re-dynoed the following week on another dyno in third gear with converter locked and get a completely different look. Here's Forcefed's sheet:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/03/578dyno-1.jpg

And here's the one in third gear with 1.5 psi LESS boost and 30 degrees warmer air!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/03/dantedyno-1.jpg

With the roots style blowers the torque goes straight up and then slowly trails off through the pull, they have instant boost. Keiths sheet isn't even close. And back to my buddys truck, we left there and put on my standalone wideband and he was making mid to upper 11's a/f. So we re-dynoed his truck on another dyno and the a/f matched what we saw on our wideband. Keiths a/f hose must have been kinked or something, but he did not refund his money and my friend would have to pay to get a new pull.

Back on topic, I think the Speed Merchant would be a good way to go.

Jody

[TonyL]

speedmerchant definately has more experiance. And would be my first option as well. I was just throwing out other options. Its good to know though jody. I havent dealt with many of their other customers.

[ViperBlue68]

Thanks guys and Jody I know Keith very well he used to be business partners with a good friend of mine here in Yuba City and is a friend of mine as well IMHO he takes on too much at one time so I'm afraid my car will get lost in his shop for too long tho I have talked to him briefly about it...but he has never done a 1st gen ls1 swap ...and he wants me to buy the motor he has built for their yellow z06 vette its a built "cast" 6.0...I think I'll call Speed Merchant and get some prices from them tho...Can anyone recommend a place to look for the motor and trans and anything else I'll need from a donor car? Thanks in Advance :cheers:

[ViperBlue68]

Has anyone used these guys? feedback?
www.turnkeyengine.com

[zbugger]

You can send either Lowend or TonyHuntimer a PM and they can probably help you out. Tony still works at The Speed Merchant, and Lowend used to. As for a place to get the stuff from, in San Jose there is GM Sport Salvage. Their prices have been known to be a little on the high side at times, but because I usually walk in there, I haven't had any problems. Oh, and all they carry is basically Camaro's and Chevelles. Yeah, there's a Pontiac thrown in there, along with a few 'Vettes, but it's all GM. Last time I was there they had a good assortment of LS1 stuff.

[ViperBlue68]

Allen,
I gave Speed Merchant a call earlier and spoke to someone... wasnt named tony tho... he told me to call GM Sports Salvage as well and that it shouldnt be a problem doin the swap for me...BUT there was no set price....which is sorta what I was expecting but a ballpark would suffice....when he told me they had a guy bring in his car and his bill was 42k!!! I think I about fell outta my chair. Im gonna go ahead and start gettin the motor,tranny, and parts and figure out what its gonna run to get it in the camaro the guy at gmsportsalvage said it is not a hard thing to do myself...I hate this contradicting crap.. :hammer:

[Stu Seitz]

Try Rancho Recycling in Sac I got my engine and trans for less around 5000. Pretty good deal, I thought being that it's an ls6 block, had 20,000 miles on it, comes with a warranty and it was delivered.

Edit: I have dealt with the people at GM sport salvage and with the people at Rancho; I left rancho with a lot more info and feeling a lot better about my purchase.

[MrQuick]

Hey JT, i'll do it for at least half that price! :naughty:

Hey Stuart where are you?
I get the same feeling when I leave GM sports salage too, its sot of like eating too much fiber. They priced a LS1 and 60 trans for $4250 not too bad.

[ViperBlue68]

Stuart,
Thanks I been meaning to check with Rancho...are you in the Sac area? if so who is installing your LS 1?

Vince,
That cheap huh... :scared: on a serious note have you done a 1st gen LS1 swap and would you do one? let me know your schedule my pockets are gettin awfully warm with this money burnin a whole in them :screwy:

[Lowend]

I'll step im here being a former Speed Merchant employee who was involved in a ton of builds there. You need to know why you will probably not be able to get anyone to quote you a solid estimate amount on the phone.

First off, you have to understand that we get tons of calls from people asking the same thing you are, 99% of them are just stroking us. It takes a couple of hours to work out a ball park estimate on a project like this. It dosen't make good business sense to work up a full on estimate until a customer shows some real interest.
Second, this sort of project just simply can't be given a real estimate until you really get into it. I was always hesitant to put a $ amount on any project, because that always seems to become the expected amount regardless of what happens during the project (like a customer decides he wants to add in a fancy A/C unit or something).

I would say that you should probably plan on spending around $10K + the price of the engine and transmission. I know this probably sounds like a lot off the bat, but keep in mind, there are going to have to be several hundered dollars in AN fittings alone, not to mention wiring, an ECM ect... This is not a cheap thing to do.
The boys (Ben, Vic and Kevin) at Speed Merchant do not do things half-assed. When the wiring gets done, it is going to be perfect, same with the fuel system. This is great, but it takes time, and time costs money. Time costs $98/hour to be exact, and you can count on being billed for a lot of hours.

I'll give an example - working with a 99 Camaro to pull the engine, replace heads, cam , headers and clutch, and reinstall takes 30-35 man hours to do right. That isn't starting a job and going to the lunch truck hours... that is a guy who has done this 10 times before and is working straight from 8am - 4pm.

...but I digress
I would say plan on spending $10K after the engine and tranny purchase, that should put you in the ballpark.

[Stu Seitz]

Vince, I live in the bay area, San Ramon to be exact.

T.J., I'm doing it on my own. It's taken a little longer then most b/c I'm still 19, full time student and work 40+ hours a week :banghead: But like Lowend said it's all the little things that take up your time and money; he isn't Exagerating one bit, I think my fuel system alone is over 1000 (I try not to keep track).

I don't know where your located but if you would like to stop by I can show you what I'm doing/ what kind of parts i'm using to give you ideas on how to approach your project.

[MrQuick]

Damn Brett your buddy would die in a flat rate dealer world. :scared: My buddy at GM did a head, cam, header, clutch and blower install on a 2001 in 12 hours, coffee break and lunch included...done right and in dealer fashion---> $108 an hour for 42 hour charged. I agree it all adds up.
I haven't done an LS1 swap yet, but for 22-24k I can sure learn quick.
I did do a LTI swap in a 65 Chevelle so I have a pretty good idea whats involved.
Theres a difference between me and other shops, I don't do this for the money, I do it for the fun of building the car and making a customer happy. I don't charge an arm and a leg in labor $$ and it does take me longer because im a 1 man team but i do my job right. I have the oppertunity to take my time and im not pressured by any time restraints. As long as the job pays my over head ,helps me buy tools and material im happy. I can be fast but its gonna cost you. I have 3 projects ahead of a new one so let me know.
Stuart, you are close, hey going to Pleasanton this weekend? some of us are getting together. :enguard:

[Charley Lillard]

You might give Theo a call in Woodland at Wizard Racing. 530-662-0990. Good guy, good fabricator, one man shop, knows EFI.

[Stu Seitz]

I wish I could but can't because of work.

[harshman]

Where’s TeeToe Jones when you need him? Oh that’s right – skiing. Plick!!!

I’ve been considering doing the swap for a while and I have to say that $10k in parts plus motor and trany is too high unless we are talking about something exotic. I’ll be the first to point out that I aint a motor-pulling-and-swapping-out-with-an-LS1 guy but I have seen plenty of them and Tyler of ATS swapped my tranny to a T56. This isn’t rocket science. Sure a little bit of fuel lines, pump, some oxygen sensors, update the exhaust, and a small amount of tinkering with the computer – bata-bing you have a running car. I think the swap should be able to be done for $8k including the motor and tranny on Ebay(no – not a new one).

[Stu Seitz]

It depends on how high of a performance job you want to do. Yes you can get the job done by purchasing a 97 vette pump and regulator or you could go high performance with an aeromotive pump and regulator. You could use the stock, and problie worn out clutch or get a new one. It all depends on how you want to use your car. Here is a list of what I used in my switch.

Stock 2000 ls1 w/ ls6 block + T-56 - $5000
Spec stg 3 clutch w/ lighted opiton - 650
Pacesetter long tube header for a 98-02 camaro - 300
(If anyone wants to know they fit with a little modification to one pipe. I have pics if you want)
Painless wiring harness - 620
S+P motor mount adaptor plates - 65
S+P modified oil pan - 200
Aeromotive pump, filter, regulator, rails - 1000, or somewhere close
A N fittings, hard lines, Steel braided tubes - 350
Ron Davis Radiator w/ vapor fitting - 816 w/%5 pt discount
ATS crossmeber and modified slave - 450
Solid motor mounts - 35

Now this is just a rough estimate in prices I can't think of all of then exactly, but just to give you an idea.

Edit: After it's running I would still need to get it tuned and the injectors after sitting for over a year are problie bad so they may need to be cleaned or SLP has a set of stock ones for around 100 bucks.

[ViperBlue68]

I’ve been considering doing the swap for a while and I have to say that $10k in parts plus motor and trany is too high unless we are talking about something exotic. I think the swap should be able to be done for $8k including the motor and tranny on Ebay(no – not a new one).

AMEN to that!
When I spoke to S&P Mike I believe told me it is a pretty simple install with most of there stuff being bolt up he said he'll have it on dvd real soon and sent me out another install dvd and catalog in the meanwhile he said a shop shouldnt charge more than 40-50 hours($2250.00 50x$45.00 shop rate at S&P) to do it according to him but he also does these on a regular basis.... I have thought about it I want to get this done soon!! like yesterday even!!...I'm just wondering if I can get it all done for under 10k if so I'd be more than happy :bananna2:
but somewhere close than that isnt too much of a problem either :scared: ...any bidders? Thanks for all the ideas and answers so far guys keep em coming and Charley I'll give Theo @ Wizard a buzz and see what he thinks...

[ViperBlue68]

ttt

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

well an ls1 swap there is nothing really to it hehe ...i did my own swap ...ls1s are almost ment to be in first gens hehe .. one of the small problems could be the shifter being kinda back there but wiring it is just like connecting a stereo ...and gauges you would need some aftermarket kind of setup ...gas tank either baffle your own or buy one headers is up to you if you on how much you want to spend ... but with all the parts an ls1 conversion should take no more than 30hrs of labor

[Damn True]

Cruised through the GM yard in SJ last week, they had an LS1, w/o the trans for $3800. Seems kinda steep to me.



Stopped by today just for kicks, they have another with an auto trans (65k miles) for $3985. The guy said they usually sell them with the t-56 for about $4500.

Again, seems steep.

[yody]

if my garage was empty i would take the job. Too bad you can't do it yourself. Also GM sports is a complete rip of, you can find much better deals.

[Damn True]

Inquiring minds want to know....where?

[yody]

just gotta do research, can't hold your hand :)

[Damn True]

Oh, who's the elitist now?

LOL!

Just wanting to know where to start looking. Never tackled this kind of thing before.

[yody]

LOL! actually I don't know to be honest, however I have seen plenty of LSX oppurtunitys come up while surfin the net, so I know they are out there, but you will have to wait and search to find the right one. If you have to have now GMsports may be a good option, however they are such a ripoff! I hate giving them any money

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

gmsports would be the last place ever ....they are known to over charge ...and sometimes even try to sell you parts more expensive than at the dealer lol . .... i see a few on craigslist ...i dont like ebay because of all the scams hehe and also ls1tech ...so your best bet is to do a deal local

[Steve1968LS2]

:help: Ok guys after much thought :idea: I've decided on a LS1 swap for my 68 Camaro does anyone know of a Knowledgable (about 1st gen swaps) shop in Northern California? Im right by Sacramento any advice will be Greatly appreciated!! :cheers:

Sorry, I do know of one down here in SoCal..

[ViperBlue68]

Steve,
The one that did your 69? Ive heard they do good work on another forum...I just would PREFER someone closer...but it looks like im gonna hafta bite the bullett and just ship it out. :crying:

[MrQuick]

Ok, how soon do you need it. Lets talk.

[ViperBlue68]

Vince its winter time man I got till its warm weather so I can drive it again...is that long enough? :hmm: honestly just let me know what your schedule looks like for a swap and a minitub?? or is that pushing it? :lmao: .... do you have a trailer?

[MrQuick]

yeah we can do all...how about a Lateral Dynamics 3 link? MSP roll cage? Wayne Due or DSE front frame? have trailer will travel...I have to drop off a car over at Marquez Design so that might work out, he's in Galt. Road trip Allen?? :drive2: shoot me an email...it looks like a long winter :headbang:

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

jt ill do it ....f*** it lol ....bring it on haha .....I didnt know you was looking for an engine ....ummm do you want it stock or with some extras ...because if thats the case why dont you just buy a short block ls1 new and get your own heads intake and tb ...and at least you know everything is new ....thats how i did mine and it comes out to about the same price lol ....not everything was new though as in accessories and other minor stuff ...lots of people get rid of corvette engine harnesses for chip ...all you have to do is re-asign some pins and add the tps and idle control connectors and you have a stand alone harness too hehe ....

[MrQuick]

yo rick... get off my cool aid!!!! lol

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

hehe so solly wont do it again.....lol

[MrQuick]

Rolf!

[ViperBlue68]

Vince I'll e mail you and we'll get somethin set up...when are you comin to Galt? if that dont work out I'm sure I can snag my buddies trailer....

[Damn True]

Ok, I think that with the combined resources here I/we can achieve my power goals with an LSx on my car easier and cheaper than with an old school iron block and aftermarket EFI. I'm sold. When the time comes I'll be hitting you guys up.

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

efi!!! go go go lol

[ViperBlue68]

well if everything works out you can SEE it done Vince is in the bay...I just gotta e mail him and set up a time and prices :3gears:

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

Jt What Ever You Do Just Dont Use Street & Performance Headers...they Suck Lol

[Stu Seitz]

Jt What Ever You Do Just Dont Use Street & Performance Headers...they Suck Lol

I second that! I used modded pacesetters.

If Vince does your install I'll help for free. I got some ls1 parts laying around my house; compressor, fuel rail, etc.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Jt What Ever You Do Just Dont Use Street & Performance Headers...they Suck Lol

Very true! This is important for everyone, because alot of people "waste" money on them. If you don't want to spend the coin for headers, then just use stock manifolds (which will make about the same power as shorties) or if you want headers go with Stainless Works, or ATS headers. Which ever meets your budget and power goals. Or you can also do what Stuart did, and modify 4th gen headers.

[ViperBlue68]

I second that! I used modded pacesetters.

If Vince does your install I'll help for free. I got some ls1 parts laying around my house; compressor, fuel rail, etc.

Sweet!! I'll hafta mention that when we are talking prices :lmao: is your swap done?? PICS???!!!!

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

Jt I Just Looked At Your Car And I Didnt Know It Looked That Good .....love The Trunk ....hook Me Up Haha ....i Went With An Aeromotive A1000 Pump To Feed My Engine As I Have Plans For A Procharger..and Also Cause They Look Good Lol ....what Tank Are You Gonna Use ?

[ViperBlue68]

Jt I Just Looked At Your Car And I Didnt Know It Looked That Good .....love The Trunk ....hook Me Up Haha ....

Thanks... whats your trunk like now? stock?


i Went With An Aeromotive A1000 Pump To Feed My Engine As I Have Plans For A Procharger..and Also Cause They Look Good Lol ....what Tank Are You Gonna Use ?

I'm goin with a Procharger as well! :headbang: and I'll prolly get a Ricks Hotrod tank cause they LOOK so damn cool!! :icon996:

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

my trunk looks like crap ...never did anything to it .... i have 2 10s and one alpine amp and the nitrous bottle ....but still havent figured out on what to do

[Damn True]

Are the Rick's tanks baffled with steel or foam?

[Stu Seitz]

Not done yet but it's very drivable.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

lemme see if i can find a pic of the headers

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

I Believe Is All Stainless Steel My Friend Has His Tank And It Looks Great And I Talked To Rick And He Also Offers An Aeromotive Fuel Pump Version .....stuart ...looking Good ...i Had The Fuel Pressure Gauge Like You Did But Once I Put The Hood On I Couldnt See Anything No More Lol

[Damn True]

Not done yet but it's very drivable.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

lemme see if i can find a pic of the headers



Wow, that thing is really far back in the engine compartment isn't it?
Ummm...where's your wiper motor?

[ViperBlue68]

Stuart,
Looks great! Good job :cheers: I wanna get the Ron Davis radiator as well and maybe one of his cool intercoolers for the procharger...I wonder if the 69 camaro intercooler works with the 68?

[Stu Seitz]

Wow, that thing is really far back in the engine compartment isn't it?
Ummm...where's your wiper motor?

Yeah it's pretty close, as for the wiper motor....meh. Not really worried about puting one in; don't plan on driving it in the rain. Going to chico in 2 months and my house is 5 mins from school. An umbrella is cheaper then a DSE wiper motor.

Never actaully seen a 67-68 engine bay before (in person) but I would asume that it would fit in front of the rad. Hell in mine I could fit another dead body in front of my rad. If worse came to wost you could always move the radiator back a bit. With my S&P mounts I have a ton of room between the rad and water pump, the only compromise would be is how sharp of turn do you want in the intake piping.

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

looking great Stuart....im doing a procharger too ....share some ideas with me Jt ...what kind of bracket are you gonna use for it hehe

[ViperBlue68]

Rick,
If i told ya I'd hafta kill you :machine:
:secret: Its Super Secret Undercover Pimp Shyt!
:lol:
Photos will be added after Sema :moon:

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

wait a minute till next year ? lol thats messed up haha.... i was thinking if i should go with the A&A corvette bracket ...it looks nice too

[Stu Seitz]

Guys shure you wanna procharge your ls1? Why not a KB, should fit under our cowls

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

and yes it's intercooled

[MrQuick]

your not helping at all Stu...LOL

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Ahhh yes, the 2.4KB. Who's going to be the first to do it in a first gen?

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

dont like how it looks =p ....how much does it cost ?

[Damn True]

If I do an LSx will I be able to use a quality race-spec power steering pump like a Canton or similar, or will I be stuck with an OE unit?

[Stu Seitz]

You can run any pump, the bracket should be the only thing you have to fab mabye a new belt?

edit: The stock unit isn't that bad, just get a cooler and underdirve pulleys and you should be fine.

[Damn True]

Is the stocker a plastic or metalic reservoir? I don't want to melt the solder and puke hyd fluid all over my engine compartment like Carl Cassanova's friend did.

[Stu Seitz]

plastic

[first gen fan]

I am doing a LS1 swap into a 68 camaro and would appreciate any info on fuel lines/system, mounts, and any of the other 1000 details I will run into swapping. Thanks


Jeff

[jonnyc]

you can try msi in roseville.they are mainly a corvette shop.but lately they are trying to get more into old school cars with late model drivetrain.they did a 68 firebird with a ls2 and a 69 chevelle with a ls1.i think they are currently working on a 60 something vette with a ls7 and c6 suspension.

[WS6]

Turn One has modified stock PS pumps designed for track duty. The LS1 pump is too strong and typically burns the fluid and causes over flows during track use. A cooler and Turn One pump will stop that for the majority of circumstances

[MrQuick]

depending on the gear type be it pump or rack you can change the pulley size and add a cooler.