1967 buick gs400 vert suspension questions...Please help...Marcus?Prodigy?

[twolfinger]

Needing advice on steps to follow on a tight budget for my suspension. I would like to add as I go, start with a foundation and than add as money allows without removing the parts I already added.

Car: 1967 Buick GS400 Convertible
Engine: 455 pushing about 500-525hp

Suspension:
Eibach Pro Kit drop springs - still needs to be installed
Stock GS Disc Brake setup including spindles - still needs to be installed
77 Trans AM 1.25" front sway bar - still needs to be installed
Monte SS YA box that I will be converting using a Tom Lee kit - still needs to be installed
Eagle Alloy TT2 17x8 with 245/45 on all corners, eventually would like to go wider in the back

So assuming that, I want to do the front suspension while the front end is apart for the disc upgrade and spring install. I will be using the car primarily for cruising, but want it to be tight on corners. Modern day driving characteristics, etc... I am not auto-crossing and rarely dragging.

recommendations from here:

SC&C stage 1 kit? If so, rubber the rest of the way on the front end suspension?
Use the stock a arms and add P-S-T polygraphite front end kit?
Moog rubber front end kit?
Tubular A- arms with a stock spindle height?
For my type of driving, will I gain anything by going to tubular lower a-arms?
Aluminum body bushings?
Which brand of shocks for the money? Bilstein seems like a lot, KYB gas-a-just? are the GR2 version crap? Tokico? Edelbrock IAS?

I have a potential deal that would garner me Hothckis 1.25" front sway, hotchkis 1" drop springs all around and IAS shocks, all with roughly 10k easy miles on them for what would equate to $150. Any difference between the EIbach\2nd Gen combo vs. the Hotchkis combo?

There isn't a rear sway currently and I don't believe boxed rear arms.
Tubular rear arms?
Adjustable or non-adjustable?
1" sway bar? noticeable difference for my driving?

Also, I just found a sweet set of Hotchkis adjustable upper trailing arms for a great price. Only problem is they are for the 68-70 a-body. they show 2 different part numbers for 68-70 and the 67. What is the difference? Would these still work?

All the feedback would be appreciated.

Tom

[Blue67gto]

My 1967 GTO has the Eibach springs and 69-72 single piston disk brakes with the 1.25 front sway bar. I've rebuilt the front suspension with moog parts and installed Kyb Gas-adjust shocks. don't get the gr-2. I ordered both to compare the difference because I was curious and since I work for Les Shwab it makes it easy:bsjerk:. I'm still running 15 inch tires though. I have about $1100 in the brakes, springs and suspension rebuild. I'm pretty Happy with it. It definatly handles way better than any of my stock 67 tempest or lemans did. It doesn't scrape the door handles now. After the paint and interior work is done and I save some more money I will do "phase II" and go wild on the suspension and brakes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/11/gtosmallmagnuson-1.jpg

hopefully this gives you an idea of stance with the eibachs.

[Marcus SC&C]

Hi Tom. You`re tugging at my heartstrings with this one, I had three `67 GS-400s and let them all get away. DOH! One was my first attempt at ProTouring,many many years before anyone had coined that term. I wish I`d had the parts then that we have now! I`d probably still be driving it. :)

You`ve got a good start there and haven`t made any misteps as as far as I`m concerned. What`s missing is anything to address the A bodys inherent geometry and alignment issues. The factory front end geometry is tragically bad. Just about every measurable aspect of it is backward compared to how cars are designed today. There are absolutely huge gains to be had in this area in regard to both drivability and handling.
You can retain your stock spindles and use a StreetComp Stage-2-Plus package to revamp the geometry. http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm#streetcomp2plus
This will reverse the backward camber curves, raise the too low roll center to reduce body roll and correct about 80% of the total factory bumpsteer. In the center 3" of travel where the car spends 99% of it`s time it virtually eliminates any bumpsteer as is as good as any modern car. The adj. SPC upper A arms compliment the new geometry,allow full suspension travel without any binding and let you achieve a perfect performance alignment. Eliminating the alignment shims also frees up a lot of header clearance for that big Buford motor.
I`d steer clear of poly in the LCAs, they squeak, they cause non linear binding due to stiction issues and they eventually egg shape their holes. For mild applications factory rubber will work just fine and hold up for decades with no fuss. For more serious application greasable delrin is the only way to go.
Typically there is no benefit to tubular lower A arms except that they`re new (without 40 years of fatigue and abuse) and look cool. They may also have better bushings. There are some advantages to running SPC Performance lower arms though. I consider them next generation A arms in that they actually do things. They have adjustable ride height, provisions for late model progressive rate jounce bumpers, greasable delrin bushings, and revised geometry that allows much improved front tire clearance at higher + caster settings. That doesn`t sound like a big deal until you have a really cool fast car that you have to put around in because the front tires are always rubbing the fenders! Short answer theyre not mandaroty but they are nice to have.
Aluminum body bushings wouldn`t be a bar idea. You`re already a big step ahead of the Chevelle guys with your fully boxed factory frame too. :)
Spend a couple more bucks and get the Bilsteins! You will not be sorry you did. I promise you. No offense to KYB owners but IMO they`re one of the worst shocks on the market. They have a unique combination of poor ride quality and poor handling that is amazing to me. If you shop around you can find the Bilsteins for $75-$77 ea. that`s a screamin deal for a shock of that quality and no...we don`t sell them. How`s that for an endorsement?
All the rear arms for these cars seem pretty much the same but they`re NOT. The devil is in the details here and a change as small as the type of bushings in them can be a real game changer. I won`t get into the lengthy details here but you`re looking for a greasable sealed pivot balls with a synthetic race on at least one end of the arms to help prevent non linear binding during axle articulation. This means Currie Currectrac or if budget is an issue and extreme strength is not Edelbrock adj. uppers. They don`t make a pivot ball lower for A body. Are they more expensive than some other arms ? Yes. Are they worth it? YES. Hang loose and save your pennies if you have to and buy the good stuff just once and be done with it. You`ll be way ahead of the game! `64-`67 A body UCAs are longer than `68-`72 and mount at a different angle in plan view.
I`ve never seen/driven an A body street car that couldn`t benefit from a rear sway bar. They contribute additional roll rate needed to get these cars closer to neutral without adding a bunch of spring rate that makes the car ride like a buckboard. The roll extra rate will make the car feel lighter and much more responsive in the turns. A 1" conventional rear bar will be a big help but it it`s in the budget our new Spohn/SC&C adj. rate link mounted rear ProTouring bar http://www.scandc.com/spohnarms.htm will be a better match to your big front bar and give you the ability to tune the suspension to your personal tastes.
I touched on some of the high points here but if you have any other questions feel free to call us for more information and take advantage of our free Suspension Counseling Service. :) Mark SC&C

[Blue67gto]

Also I agree about Kyb they are pretty stiff. I will replace them later. they are just part of my base Line setup. The Bilstein shocks that I have installed have all been really nice quality, but they have all been truck shocks and I have never driven them for more than a few miles(customer cars) I really want to add a lot of the SC&C stuff when money allows.

[claytonisbob]

I ordered 4 Bilsteins for $252 ($63 each) shipped at allshocks.com. They got them out ridiculously fast too (I think 3 days). KYB's are $40 each... spend the extra $20.

[Norm Peterson]

Marcus has covered just about everything, so I'll just add a couple of thoughts.

Eagle Alloy TT2 17x8 with 245/45 on all corners, eventually would like to go wider in the back

Which brand of shocks for the money? Bilstein seems like a lot, KYB gas-a-just? are the GR2 version crap? Tokico? Edelbrock IAS?

If you go any wider than 255/45 in the rear, you'll need wheels that are wider than 8". 275/40 goes on wheels that are between 9" and 11" wide.

Of your list of shocks - Bilsteins. Maybe IAS next (no personal experience). Gas-A-Justs.

GR-2's and Tokico "blues" are little more than OE replacement shocks.

If they're available for this car, Tokico Illuminas are a possibility, though they tend to ride a bit more harshly at any given setting (Illuminas are adjustable).


Norm

[mjoc1]

Lets see some pics of your 67GS400 convertible. I own one too. Here are a few pics of mine.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/010-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/011-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/012-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/013-1.jpg
I havn't taken pics recently. But I am in the process of installing 12inch rotors on the front with c4 calipers global west upper and lower control arms and coilovers PST energy suspension sway bar. Don't know what rims yet. running chevy caprice temp spares for now.

I'm riunning a 70 GSX stage1 455 engine(got from a rich kid after loosing control and t-boning a telephone pole with the rear fender)


Mike